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The Blackest Goon posted:So NT wants to get their hands on the Onimusha series? I wonder what other Capcom franchises would be like if NT rebooted them (like Viewtiful Joe or Sengoku Basara) You know, this is the franchise they should have gotten a hold of to begin with. The gameplay in those games are really straight forward combat arenas while you go around solving puzzles and looking for keys - similar to old Resident Evil. I think that type of game would have played to Ninja Theory's strengths of having games with strong characters and great-looking areas while having basic, serviceable gameplay. As long as the Bishamon Sword is the ultimate weapon again, then I say go for it.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 23:03 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 02:41 |
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Jimbot posted:You know, this is the franchise they should have gotten a hold of to begin with. The gameplay in those games are really straight forward combat arenas while you go around solving puzzles and looking for keys - similar to old Resident Evil. I think that type of game would have played to Ninja Theory's strengths of having games with strong characters and great-looking areas while having basic, serviceable gameplay. It also has a thing for Actors As Character and looking like films which would play to Ninja Theory's strengths, yes. They make ridiculously motion-captured Hollywood-inspired media which would fit so well for Onimusha it's ridiculous.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 23:05 |
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Famitsu gave DmC 34/40. That's really surprising imo.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 23:06 |
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ImpAtom posted:This isn't cynical dude. It's the exact reason why pretty much every company offers free DLC. It extends the life of the game before someone will trade it in/get rid of it/stop playing it. It isn't a bad thing if done well. Look at Team Fortress 2 for an example of post-launch support extending the length of a game for a ridiculous amount of time. Sorry, I mean specifically I remember seeing a picture of Tameem with a dude and he was holding up a "DLC SHOULD BE FREE" type poster.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 23:07 |
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SurrealityCheck posted:Famitsu gave DmC 34/40. That's really surprising imo. No it isn't. Famitsu is by far the worst reviewer out there. As long as you are from a semi-large publisher you will get a good review from them. The only time a Famitsu review is worthwhile is if it is bad, because a bad review from them means it is really bad. They used to have a reputation for being "good" but that was largely because nobody ever translated their poo poo. Now they're giving out 39/40s and 40/40s like candy and in general are just awful. Not that this means DMC is awful, just that Famitsu is.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 23:12 |
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It'll basically be the same across the board. I think it will get 75% give or take. It looks like a profoundly average hack-and-slash that has its head up its own rear end. That doesn't make it a terrible game, but it does make it a terrible DMC.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 00:30 |
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ImpAtom posted:No it isn't. Famitsu is by far the worst reviewer out there. As long as you are from a semi-large publisher you will get a good review from them. The only time a Famitsu review is worthwhile is if it is bad, because a bad review from them means it is really bad. The fact that Famitsu gave Final Fantasy XIII-2 a perfect 40/40 score should be all the reason anyone needs to completely disregard their opinions. Seeing the reviews for DmC is going to be an absolute blast. Marking the 15th on all of my calendars so I know when to start blasting obnoxious dubstep and prepping some popcorn.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 01:28 |
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I want to play this because i'm a sucker for dumb action games but at the same time don't want to give them money for making this poo poo. I'll just wait a week for used copies. Hopefully there will be some.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 04:33 |
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Well Famitsu used to be good with their 40/40s. I think it started in 2005 when they gave nintendogs a 40.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 09:14 |
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RBX posted:I want to play this because i'm a sucker for dumb action games but at the same time don't want to give them money for making this poo poo. I'll just wait a week for used copies. Hopefully there will be some. There's always rentals as well. As for DmC review bingo: "vast improvments over DMC1" "highly original story" "Dante is as he was in the other games" "Dante is better than he was in the other games" "I don't see what the so-called 'fans' are complaining about" "The 30fps makes no difference and feels as smooth as 60fps" "This is my first DMC game, but it controls exactly like the others" "New Dante is hot" Oh, and Capcom wants to work with NT again: Capcom will collaborate with DmC studio Ninja Theory again - there are "high standards on both sides" posted:"We both know we're pulling in the right direction" with Devil May Cry Be afraid. Have this also: "Desiccated squirrel semen". The VA work in this is still pretty bad. Someone in the regular DMC thread drew a parallel to the Star Warss prequels - a bunch of people just standing around and talking, or sitting and talking. One thing I've noticed, why don't any of the NPCs look at Kat while she's talking to Dante in limbo? Not even a twist of the head? [e]: I'm not being entirely serious. Short of them working on Okami, MGS or Bayonetta, I couldn't care less what they do next. VVV Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 09:53 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 09:28 |
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I don't see the big deal, I would be interested in NT improving on what they learned while developing DmC which in on itself is miles ahead of their past work from a gameplay perspective. The only thing they really need as a studio is to get a story writer because when they work on that themselves it ends up being awful going from what has been shown so far. Maybe work on their PR as well since most of the pre-release hype for DmC boiled down to fans being snarky/NT and Capcom being snarky in return ad infinitum. Personally, I'd prefer if the DMC IP had Capcom working on the regular series and NT developing DmC titles similar to how the Megaman series used to be like with the million spin-offs, but I doubt that will happen. I find the universe they made for the reboot to be very good, but so far it seems ruined by bad writing and emotionless voice acting.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 09:48 |
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I guess I'm alone in thinking Devil May Cry had horrible writing from the start. Not sure why DmC dialog is bad but the rest of the series isn't. Worse part of the series I think. Edit- I can understand the gameplay, but eveything else, not seeing it.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 10:09 |
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incorporeal posted:I guess I'm alone in thinking Devil May Cry had horrible writing from the start. Not sure why DmC dialog is bad but the rest of the series isn't. Worse part of the series I think. No everyone knows it had horrible writing. The difference is that DmC's devs have been talking about how they're going to have a "deep, mature" story from the beginning and how their writing is so much better than the old games.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 10:16 |
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incorporeal posted:I guess I'm alone in thinking Devil May Cry had horrible writing from the start. Not sure why DmC dialog is bad but the rest of the series isn't. Worse part of the series I think. Yeah no the original series had awful writing too it was just endearingly awful instead of trying to be some serious edgy in your face message about the terrors of consumerism or whatever the gently caress that has turned out to be awful.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 10:24 |
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:No everyone knows it had horrible writing. The difference is that DmC's devs have been talking about how they're going to have a "deep, mature" story from the beginning and how their writing is so much better than the old games. Pretty much this. The stories of DMC are, at best, average but competently told (DMC3) and at worst, disjointed and poorly told (DMC2), but the focus was never on that, it was always combat first, story later. NT was pretty much hired for their percieved storytelling abilities - it certainly wasn't for their gameplay - and don't seem to have done a good job in that aspect, other than crib stuff from They Live, and a Futurama episode. [e]: That's the most baffling thing they've said, because it'd fit in with their Dante's character to taunt. He even has preset taunts that play during certain parts. It's just an excuse not to allow the player any control of that. VVV Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 10:31 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 10:24 |
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To add to this they've also done stuff like not include a taunt button and then explain it by saying "Tauntng doesn't fit our narrative" when their narrative is complete garbage and shouldn't be dictating gameplay elements.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 10:28 |
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I'm sure they never considered taunts early on in development (or if they did considered it a superfluous feature to not be bothered with to save up development time), had no idea the fanbase considered them important and that was just a generic PR response. See: that horrible statement about why it's locked at 30FPS.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 10:36 |
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Urgh. It's like the Crow collided into a hipster. I'm guessing the top right is meant to be Dante in Vergil's colours? Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 11:01 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 10:56 |
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What exactly was so bad about DMC3's writing? I thought it was pretty good. Derivative, maybe, but not awful.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 10:57 |
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:No everyone knows it had horrible writing. The difference is that DmC's devs have been talking about how they're going to have a "deep, mature" story from the beginning and how their writing is so much better than the old games. so because the devs feel a certain way about their writing means you have to see it that way? I was laughing most of the time at DmC dialog because of how bad it was. I guess I get more amusement out of their bad writing then the original series which was more like a bad anime dialog to me. Edit- Like the picture above me, people don't like it because it's so awful, I like it because it's so awful. Going to be comedy game of year for me. (is that a category?) I guess I just find everything about the new game funny instead of being annoyed that they aren't making a true sequel to DMC3 incorporeal fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 11:07 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 11:04 |
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incorporeal posted:so because the devs feel a certain way about their writing means you have to see it that way? I was laughing most of the time at DmC dialog because of how bad it was. I guess I get more amusement out of their bad writing then the original series which was more like a bad anime dialog to me. So what this comes down to is that you're surprised people don't like things that you yourself would describe as awful?
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 11:17 |
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Pesky Splinter posted:Urgh. "Neo Dante" on the left and "Dark Dante" on the right. I think "Dark" is just supposed to be all black so Dante can be all Matrix'd out (although you'd think they'd swap the names in that case). It's the least offensive outfit though, the Neo/Crow one is loving abominable.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 11:21 |
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Bland posted:So what this comes down to is that you're surprised people don't like things that you yourself would describe as awful? surprised by how people don't find how bad it is to be funny I guess. Seemed like it would be something people would get a laugh out of, not cry about it for six months. Surpised by how there seems to be zero people who find it awful funny and not just awful. incorporeal fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 11:56 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 11:47 |
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incorporeal posted:surprised by how people don't find how bad it is to be funny I guess. Seemed like it would be something people would get a laugh out of, not cry about it for six months. See, the old games had stupid writing, but its worst moments were clearly never meant to be taken seriously. It was a cheesy, B-movie style charm that made you like the characters and excited for the next moment as ridiculous as the 90-degree motorcycle ride. Here it's bad, but in a way that shows you the writers honestly believe this to be good. The characters are grating and the dialogue the type of garbage that a fourteen-year-old fanfic writer would find mature. It's not the fun, goofy kind of bad. It's just gratingly bad, like a crappy Hollywood remake of a dumb movie you liked.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 11:57 |
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Resident Evil 4 vs. Resident Evil 5.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 11:58 |
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Geostomp posted:See, the old games had stupid writing, but its worst moments were clearly never meant to be taken seriously. It was a cheesy, B-movie style charm that made you like the characters and excited for the next moment as ridiculous as the 90-degree motorcycle ride. I guess my problem is I never saw the original games to be this nod and a wink about itself most of the time. There is a handful of parts you can tell they wanted that goofy over the top action, but there is plenty of taking itself to serious also. (All of nero's lines in DMC4, most of the first game) or pandering to the high school anime fan crowd( Lady almost wearing a school outfit and Gloria's intro cutscene) I think DMC3 is the only game that was just cheesy scenes the whole time. I guess what I should realize is I'm not going to find anyone on here that agrees with DmC writing being funny bad also. When I saw funny bad I don't mean the writers meant for it to be, but just personally find it funny in a bad(not cheesy) way incorporeal fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 12:11 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:09 |
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incorporeal posted:I guess what I should realize is I'm not going to find anyone on here that agrees with DmC writing being funny bad also. No, I don't think you will. Guessing by how NT and Capcom have been acting like their "mature storytelling" is the thing carrying the game, I don't think they'd agree with you either! The earlier DMC games did have their serious-but-fell-flat moments, including DMC3, but their creators involved didn't respond like NT did when people called them out on how stupid the story was. That's why there's a lot of hate for the game: people don't like being treated like biased idiots when they fail to see the depth or emotional impact in a story being touted as Shakespearean, of all things. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 12:18 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:16 |
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incorporeal posted:I guess my problem is I never saw the original games to be this nod and a wink about itself most of the time. There is a handful of parts you can tell they wanted that goofy over the top action, but there is plenty of taking itself to serious also. (All of nero's lines in DMC4, most of the first game) or pandering to the high school anime fan crowd( Lady almost wearing a school outfit and Gloria's intro cutscene) I think DMC3 is the only game that was just cheesy scenes the whole time. No, you're taking most of those scenes more seriously than the game itself did. Dante literally spends his time making fun of Nero and Nero, in turn, is the kind of guy who gives Dante the middle finger even while being sucked into the middle of a giant demon. The game had a few moments where it tried to be cool instead of silly but that isn't the same as being serious. The closest are the moments where Nero freaks out about his girlfriend and even those are coached in "look how powerful he is" cinematics. The first game had some moments (With LIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT) but most of it was at least a self-aware cheesy action movie. ("flock off, feather face") instead. That isn't to say it was a parody but it was aware of how silly it was. The writer of DMC1, Noboru Sugimura, spent most of his time writing live-action superhero children's shows (the kind of stuff Power Rangers is based on) in Japan. It's possible to be both self-aware silly and to have your plot attempt to have some gravitas. There are countless comedies which manage both fact, such as Shaun of the Dead. (Not to say that DMC was anywhere as successful as Shaun of the Dead.), let alone more lighter-toned action or adventure movies which simultaneously are aware of their silly nature while still maintaining a narrative. DmC literally has its developers talking about how they're reinventing video game storytelling to be mature and adult. That's the problem there. At worst you can say about DMC was that it was designed with teenagers or a younger audience in mind. DmC is trying to be more mature and somehow appears to be even more childish and that's ridiculous. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 12:31 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:19 |
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The secret trick to removing any sense of seriousness to DMC4's cutscenes (Although I thought the game was about as intentionally silly as you can get) is to pump the triggers during any movie to make the camera zoom in and out like Michael Bay having a seizure.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:23 |
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I find the story stuff we've seen of this one funny (not for the writers' reasons though obviously), but that doesn't stop me not noticing how bad it is, or how forced the cringeworthy dialogue is, or tonal dissonance, or any of the other stuff, when the devs are vaunting it so highly, about how it'll change the way game stories are told. That said, it's the gameplay that matters the most - the story is just set dressing, after all (or should be), and can be ignored if the gameplay's good. However, that's the aggravating part - it isn't. incorporeal posted:I guess my problem is I never saw the original games to be this nod and a wink about itself most of the time. There is a handful of parts you can tell they wanted that goofy over the top action, but there is plenty of taking itself to serious also. (All of nero's lines in DMC4, most of the first game) or pandering to the high school anime fan crowd( Lady almost wearing a school outfit and Gloria's intro cutscene) I think DMC3 is the only game that was just cheesy scenes the whole time. DMC1 is pretty serious most of the time (I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with LIIIIIIGGGHHT), yeah, but it still feels like it has that B-movie charm that the old Resident Evils had. DMC4 really didn't take itself too seriously (Nero screaming 'Kyrie' aside), and there's plenty of non-serious stuff and even fourth-wall breaking scenes to be had. I'll give you the pandering of DMC4's Lady and Gloria though. Lady barely did anything, and just seemed to be there to provide cleavage for no reason, and Gloria was basically pandering and uncessacary.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:24 |
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toasterwarrior posted:No, I don't think you will. Guessing by how NT and Capcom have been acting like their "mature storytelling" is the thing carrying the game, I don't think they'd agree with you either! I guess what I'm laughing at is not so much the lines, but just knowing the people who wrote it think it's really cool makes them funny to me. Like a group of writers sitting around a table and actually writing that dante and a boss just yell gently caress you back of forth then the boss starts trying to puke on him. Then thinking it's cool and dark is very amusing to me. Also being a group of full grown men and not 14 year olds makes me laugh even more. Edit-^^^^^^^^ yeah, after I made that post I loaded up some DMC cutscenes because I realized after I posted it's been since high school the last time I played. I have to take back what I said about 1, besides the mention parts (LIIIGGGHHTT) I can see that B-Movie charm. My view of the game was more of my bad memory of it, since it's been awhile. I'll also admit I'm a little bias against 4 because I didn't really like playing as nero as much as Dante and the whole playing the same levels over as the second half of the game kind of lame. incorporeal fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 12:35 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:27 |
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incorporeal posted:I guess what I'm laughing at is not so much the lines, but just knowing the people who wrote it think it's really cool makes them funny to me. Like a group of writers sitting around a table and actually writing that dante and a boss just yell gently caress you back of forth then the boss starts trying to puke on him. Then thinking it's cool and dark is very amusing to me. Also being a group of full grown men and not 14 year olds makes me laugh even more. I get what you mean. It's kind of the same way that The Room is funny, because it was made with complete sincerity, but is pretty awful, and that bizarrely is what seems to make it funnier. We're basically watching Tameem Antonides' mid-life crisis tryng to be down and hip with the kids.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:36 |
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incorporeal posted:surprised by how people don't find how bad it is to be funny I guess. Seemed like it would be something people would get a laugh out of, not cry about it for six months. Surpised by how there seems to be zero people who find it awful funny and not just awful. It's funny in a way that the developers completely didn't intend. The kind of funny where you watch videos on youtube of the awfulness and think to yourself "Man that game is hilariously bad". Not the kind of funny where you go "Here's my £40 Ninja Theory, can't wait to play your bad game so I can ironically enjoy some cutscenes."
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:37 |
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incorporeal posted:I guess what I'm laughing at is not so much the lines, but just knowing the people who wrote it think it's really cool makes them funny to me. Like a group of writers sitting around a table and actually writing that dante and a boss just yell gently caress you back of forth then the boss starts trying to puke on him. Then thinking it's cool and dark is very amusing to me. Also being a group of full grown men and not 14 year olds makes me laugh even more. Well yeah, if you put it like that, it's funny in this darkly humorous way. Still, I guess it's a sign of the times: video games keep getting blasted for having puerile stories and nowadays some studios are trying their best to change that point of view. Suddenly, you get this studio acting like their story and writing about sticking it to the (demon) man is hot poo poo, and they insult anybody that doesn't buy their assertion. It's atrociously unprofessional, and sometimes you just have to put your foot down and call out people on their bullshit that's making everyone look bad. Personally, it sucks even more because their bullshit is putting the future of a game series I love and hold in high regard in jeopardy. I'm just sentimental that way, I guess.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:42 |
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Bland posted:It's funny in a way that the developers completely didn't intend. The kind of funny where you watch videos on youtube of the awfulness and think to yourself "Man that game is hilariously bad". Not the kind of funny where you go "Here's my £40 Ninja Theory, can't wait to play your bad game so I can ironically enjoy some cutscenes." well, I guess that's where I should probably stop posting in this thread because I'm guilty of doing that with movies and games. My wife, friends and I get way to much enjoyment out of bad stuff. I blame alcohol.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 12:43 |
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I really like playing Nero; not as much as DMC4 Dante, but still. Nero is the basic fighter streamlined to a polished mirror of fun. Dante is complex, has 5 fighting styles and a more diverse arsenal. Besides, I miss the devil bringer after playing nero for a while.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 13:18 |
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Yeah, for me "Now the whole world is your BITCH, as am I" is pretty much already guaranteed to be the most cringe-worthy and all-round terrible line in any game this year. There's absolutely no self-awareness here, and is just another example of the immaturity (in many different ways) of the writing team.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 13:24 |
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Left most costume reminds me of Warrior Within era PoP.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 13:26 |
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Mentioning Warrior Within makes me think of the paralells between DmC and PoP:WW. Both games made a huge, drastic change to the characters, setting and and storytelling, intending to make them edgier and more modern and loving up what fans actually liked about the game in the first place. Everyone loved the soft, fairytale-like atmosphere and storytelling of the Prince in the first game and the next thing you know he's this super rugged looking dude who yells "BITCH" and there's no colour to be found in a gameworld that was previously full of rich detail. The thing is, Warrior Within is easily the best Prince Of Persia game after Sands of Time. Ignoring the super dumb "DARKER AND EDGIER" thing they were trying to do and you'll find that the movement, combat mechanics and environments were actually incredibly satisfying and expanded upon what people liked about the previous game so much. Two Thrones felt like a shaky compromise between PoP: SoT and PoP: WW and didn't manage to feel nearly as fun or consistent as either of those games. It makes me wonder how easier people would go on DmC if it still had its lightning-fast combat based on combos rather than damage. As it stands, the story is one of the easiest things to rail upon because when it comes to the combat not much else can really be said - it just doesn't land a scratch on what it should've been, or used to be.
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| # ? Jan 10, 2013 13:42 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 02:41 |
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I actually didn't think WW was anywhere as good as SoT or even TT. The combat mechanics were improved but the enviroments and exploration seemed less interesting than in SoT to compensate for the increased focus on combat. It didn't expand on anything I liked about PoP while building more emphasis on the parts I disliked. If anything it stands out to me as having a big part of the problem DmC has. It is focusing on the series' weakness at the expense of its strengths. PoP never has had good combat. At best it was a dull break between the fun parts. By focusing on combat, they de-emphasized the parts I liked and emphasized the parts I was at best ambivalent towards. Likewise, DmC is so focused on the story that it is putting the gameplay second. Instead of going "this is where this series shines," it's going "this is where this series sucks." Which can be good, but not when you're approaching it as "we want to do better than the worst part" instead of "we want to make the worst part as good as the good part." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2013 around 13:58 |
| # ? Jan 10, 2013 13:55 |
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