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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Will people shut up with the "Psychiatric medication turns you into a zombie!" bullshit. For some people it does affect their clarity of thought but for most people it's either a tiny, almost unnoticeable difference, or none at all. All repeating that does is scare people away from getting help they need. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if most of that anti-med propaganda is pushed by alternate medicine scammers and conspiracy theorists to keep their market large. There's decent evidence that all the anti-Ritalin poo poo people spout to this day is Scientologist-funded propaganda from the mid-90s.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 03:30 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 01:26 |
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Will people shut up with the "Psychiatric medication turns you into a zombie!" bullshit. For some people it does affect their clarity of thought but for most people it's either a tiny, almost unnoticeable difference, or none at all. All repeating that does is scare people away from getting help they need. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if most of that anti-med propaganda is pushed by alternate medicine scammers and conspiracy theorists to keep their market large.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 03:50 |
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Cornwind Evil posted:I don't get it. Is it the false sense of power that comes with the fear? Or is it a case of 'the devil you know is better than the devil you don't' ie the idea that being afraid of an all-controlling conspiracy (that you could theoretically oppose) is better than being afraid of the random chance of the universe (which you can't). Removing the people who are medically predisposed to paranoid thinking I have a theory on the rest of them. It allows a kind of psychological escape and a crutch as well. Life when you get right down to it is kinda mundane most of the time and unless you go out of the way to find 'action' it's pretty content to leave you be. Believing in some vast evil NWO overlords lets people who are board with life and don't have much going on in it to cast themselves as rebel action heroes against the vast evil, it also allows them to lord over the weak minded masses that only they the truly elect understand the reality of the world due to their superior insight and intelligence. As an aside I've noticed that most CT types seem to have no clue how other people function and seem like they've never interacted with a person (outside of very superficially) in their entire lives. Aside from the above ego boost it's also a great crutch in that the evil overlords are so powerful you can't hope to win so doing nothing is considered acceptable. It's also an excuse as to why their lives aren't as good as they hopped they would be it's easier to blame the unknowable evil other for your failings then doing something about it. In summation they get the ego boast of being wise maverick heroes but without the requirement of getting off their rear end and actually doing a drat thing.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 04:13 |
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Peter Joesph's latest Culture in Decline episode has an entertaining parody of AJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr4Mog-R9Hk
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| # ? May 6, 2013 14:04 |
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I don't listen to Alex Jones every day or often for this matter. But when I do run into his show I really enjoy listening. It's not that I necessarily agree with all the things he is saying but I don't really like the president and listening to jones is kind of a laughable role play or science fiction "what if" of the current political party. I listen to coast to coast and have about the same feeling as Jones. Honestly though, I think we are being trained to hate one party and worship the other. It's very probable that there is only one political party and they pretend to be two. If you stopped paying attention to politics then suddenly you stop hating half the country. All politics do is give you a reason to be pissed off at someone.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 15:17 |
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Splooge_Lord posted:I don't listen to Alex Jones every day or often for this matter. But when I do run into his show I really enjoy listening. It's not that I necessarily agree with all the things he is saying but I don't really like the president and listening to jones is kind of a laughable role play or science fiction "what if" of the current political party. I listen to coast to coast and have about the same feeling as Jones. Honestly though, I think we are being trained to hate one party and worship the other. It's very probable that there is only one political party and they pretend to be two. If you stopped paying attention to politics then suddenly you stop hating half the country. Splooge_Lord posted:All politics do is give you a reason to be pissed off at someone.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 20:20 |
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one thing I don't understand about Alex Jones and his followers is this: if everything that ever happens is some sort of point in a New World Order conspiracy agenda, what is the solution or alternative? If every politician and corporation worldwide is involved, how is resistance even feasible? Am I just supposed to be glad to know ahead of time that I'll be going into some mythical FEMA camp?
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| # ? May 6, 2013 22:27 |
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^^ Edit: Guns, man, go down shooting!Splooge_Lord posted:I don't listen to Alex Jones every day or often for this matter. But when I do run into his show I really enjoy listening. It's not that I necessarily agree with all the things he is saying but I don't really like the president and listening to jones is kind of a laughable role play or science fiction "what if" of the current political party. I listen to coast to coast and have about the same feeling as Jones. Honestly though, I think we are being trained to hate one party and worship the other. It's very probable that there is only one political party and they pretend to be two. If you stopped paying attention to politics then suddenly you stop hating half the country. All politics do is give you a reason to be pissed off at someone. It is an alternative viewpoint. I'm glad he has a voice. The older I get the more I realize that government is out to gently caress us. These people are not our friends or benevolent benefactors. While a lot of what he says is bombastic and designed to shock/entertain, there is a nugget of truth in some of it. Governments do terrible things. Go read some history. Are we so dumb to believe that in the 21st century our government and those in power have all of the sudden had a change of heart? That said, I'm strong willed and open minded and find him entertaining too.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 22:28 |
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Monkeycheese posted:one thing I don't understand about Alex Jones and his followers is this: if everything that ever happens is some sort of point in a New World Order conspiracy agenda, what is the solution or alternative? If every politician and corporation worldwide is involved, how is resistance even feasible? Am I just supposed to be glad to know ahead of time that I'll be going into some mythical FEMA camp? That's good news, in a way. As any seasoned political activist will tell you, "educating" people about the "issues" is basically fruitless without a way to effectively organize your sympathizers into a political force. There's no way to apply pressure on elected officials to do what you want them to do. Things like petition drives, handing out literature, selling newspapers and so on are good for raising awareness of your issue, but they're mainly about collecting contact information for people you can later rally into your cause. The conspiracy theories rarely make it past the first step. The bad news is that they're still able to cause a lot of trouble. A town near where I grew up is having serious problems adding bike lanes and building mixed-use infrastructure because the city council meetings get overrun with Tea Partiers who believe it's part of the Agenda 21 plot to enslave America under a one-world government. The thing about fascists is that they can still gently caress things up even if they're unable to take power.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 22:39 |
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I think that Alex Jones mainly appeals to people that are pretty naive and uncomplicated politically. People that may have previously had a very idealistic view of the way the world works, and since experience has taught them that isn't true, rather than spend time learning about the rather complicated and mostly dull way that politics work, adopted the exact opposite view. If the government isn't your friend, then it's out to gently caress you, if the leaders of society aren't all saints, than they're all out to screw you over. Because the other possible answer, that the government, like all governments, is a series of large institutions made up of ordinary people who are influenced by dozens of interests with often competing agendas, is complicated and not very exciting. They're the kind of people who have always wanted to have a simplistic and clear narrative. The reality is messy and boring, but the conspiracy theory is clean and exciting. Plus it has the bonus of making you superior to all the sheeple who can't see the truth! themrguy fucked around with this message at May 6, 2013 around 23:14 |
| # ? May 6, 2013 23:10 |
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Yeah, it definitely provides a sense that you're on a heroic mission. There's purpose to your life when you're resisting a movie-plot conspiracy. I think it's also worth adding, though I may have mentioned it earlier in the thread, that it's a form of projection. We tend to believe other people and institutions behave the way we behave. Conspiracy theorists also tend *not* to believe in a single theory, but in a world-view that interprets all events as being caused by the conspiracy. So it stands to reason that conspiracy theorists who believe the world is run by Machiavellian secret societies will themselves act in a Machiavellian way. (And there's some research to show that conspiracy theorists are more likely to say they would take part in the conspiracy if *they* were in the government. Because... of course you would! That's how government works!) A great example, that I don't think crosses the Godwin line, is to the Nazis. They were conspiracy theorists. They believed in a global conspiracy of Jews, controlling the banks and foreign governments (and the Weimar government) in order to enslave non-Jews. It was central to their ideology. Well, we see that when they were in power, they did all kinds of crazy conspiratorial things. Lots of internal intrigue and scheming, plans to create a New World Order under German hegemony, mass culling of the non-German population, and on and on. I don't think the Reichstag fire was actually an inside job. But there are lots of examples. So it appeals to people who are manipulative and controlling, and who see few problems with deceiving others to get what they want. If that's how you think the world works, then that's how you'll behave in that world.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 23:29 |
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I don't know how you can read this thread and still give Alex Jones, InfoWars, and RT any credibility. Their statements give information but only when you look at which events are emphasized and what agenda they are pushing (there is no single objective narrative). It's important to sample multiple sources and consider their biases. The Thought Maybe website has videos ranging from infowars schock to excellent, and it is a good alternative to subversive foreign-controlled outlets.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 23:30 |
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Monkeycheese posted:one thing I don't understand about Alex Jones and his followers is this: if everything that ever happens is some sort of point in a New World Order conspiracy agenda, what is the solution or alternative? The free markets and the bible.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 23:35 |
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They arrested a guy planning terror attacks (he's also a juggalo and white supremacist) but what struck me is that outside of the usual rants about how the NWO is ruining everything and FEMA, he also ranted about how the TSA was 'running random cheeks' and just 'shooting people for no reson'. I wonder if we'll find out he's a massive Alex Jones fan, because as far as I'm aware, he's the only one of those conspiracy theorists peddlers to have a huge bug up his rear end about the TSA
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| # ? May 6, 2013 23:38 |
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I would like to see the look on these CT types' faces if they learned about the Business Plot. Also, what do/would these guys think of actual Socialists and Marxists and whatnot? (Not people they pin these labels onto like Obama) Byde fucked around with this message at May 7, 2013 around 00:44 |
| # ? May 6, 2013 23:42 |
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Twee as gently caress posted:I wonder if we'll find out he's a massive Alex Jones fan, because as far as I'm aware, he's the only one of those conspiracy theorists peddlers to have a huge bug up his rear end about the TSA This is the real conspiracy; Alex Jones is a government agent trying to delegitimize criticism of the erosion of civil liberties by co-branding criticism of the TSA with Jew banker alien theories.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 23:50 |
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Novo posted:This is the real conspiracy; Alex Jones is a government agent trying to delegitimize criticism of the erosion of civil liberties by co-branding criticism of the TSA with Jew banker alien theories. I do love the fact that there's a whole conspiracy theory centered around how Alex Jones is in fact CIA black ops working to discredit the conspiracy theorist movement from inside. Then again, Hal Turner did end up being an FBI snitch for over a decade so 
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| # ? May 6, 2013 23:54 |
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Twee as gently caress posted:I do love the fact that there's a whole conspiracy theory centered around how Alex Jones is in fact CIA black ops working to discredit the conspiracy theorist movement from inside. Most of the "Alex Jones is in on the conspiracy" conspiracies usually are centered around the fact that his wife's Jewish ergo he's an agent of ZOG. And it's a belief not uncommon with people in conspiracy circles. This poo poo is just so thoroughly nuts.
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| # ? May 6, 2013 23:58 |
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Novo posted:This is the real conspiracy; Alex Jones is a government agent trying to delegitimize criticism of the erosion of civil liberties by hating on the TSA, and Jew banker aliens. This is the real fear for people who want a more genuine reflection of popular sovereignty- that 'they'/the elite/whatever are a couple moves ahead in terms of perception management. Just a couple of weeks ago Pat Robertson found a clever hook to overtly tell people to oppose Enlightenment ideas and reason (the founding principles of the US - just look at Ben Franklin); he summed up the militant atheism/blasphemy-baiting excess in Robespierre's France as 'The Illuminati'  Populist anti-elitism really took off in the late 70's-early 80's - it fit with the individualism of the time. Here is an early televangelist James Robison - introducing another performer who would ride this populist wave of voters. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00prsxs Alex Jones goes batshit anti-elite paranoid, is more secular (appeals to Tesla and the 'secrets of the universe'), but his style isn't that different from these preachers. But instead of 'The Way, The Truth, and The Light' it's just ' THE TRUTH 'Matt Drudge thinks it's the year of Alex Jones; not the year of Adam Curtis, or Noam Chomsky, or James Galbraith, or Robert Reich. Why is that?
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| # ? May 7, 2013 00:09 |
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Twee as gently caress posted:I do love the fact that there's a whole conspiracy theory centered around how Alex Jones is in fact CIA black ops working to discredit the conspiracy theorist movement from inside.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 00:11 |
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Azathoth posted:I live only a couple hours away from that crazy juggalo terrorist, so I decided to look up and see who carries Alex Jones in our area. While I'm proud to say that I can't receive him on any radios from my location, there is an AM station about 150 miles north of the juggalo that carries him (in the Fargo area). Alex Jones really isn't big around here (there's no Twin Cities station that carries him) and the only station in my area that carried Fox News recently switched their format back to new rock after not attracting an audience. Heck, I live in a small Minnesota town and I had no idea who Alex Jones was until I saw someone post a mock video of him on here. It's also quite possible that this guy just listened to him on the internet. I'm sure he frequented vnn or stormfront or other websites like that too. I just hope we get pictures of him at The Gathering 
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| # ? May 7, 2013 00:12 |
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DoctorStrangelove posted:Most of the "Alex Jones is in on the conspiracy" conspiracies usually are centered around the fact that his wife's Jewish ergo he's an agent of ZOG. His wife is Jewish? Well that seals it, he clearly is a tool of the ZOGuminati. (People really think that his wife being Jewish is a proof he's a government agent?  )
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| # ? May 7, 2013 00:14 |
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Doesn't the FBI list Juggalos as a violent gang or something along those lines? It's funny cause this is one of the few times I've actually heard of any of them doing something to this magnitude, most Juggalos I've actually known or run into have been really nice if also really stupid.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 00:38 |
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Aesop Poprock posted:Doesn't the FBI list Juggalos as a violent gang or something along those lines? It's funny cause this is one of the few times I've actually heard of any of them doing something to this magnitude, most Juggalos I've actually known or run into have been really nice if also really stupid.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 01:30 |
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Azathoth posted:They officially categorized them as a gang, as there seemed to be a larger than expected number of normal gangs who organized under the Juggalo banner, but participated in more traditional gang activities such as drug-dealing and protection/extortion rackets. It's pretty ridiculous, on it's face, and even the final report of the investigation doesn't do anything more than show that some individual groups of Juggalos have frequent run-ins with the law and/or formed gangs on their own. I think that whoever started the investigation expected to find some kind of organization linking everyone, as opposed to a spontaneous outpouring of collective stupidity occurring independently. It would be similar if all the "Lil Weezy" fans were investigated for criminal activity and grouped together. The difference here being that one group of people don't call themselves a name just for being fans.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 01:47 |
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It seems like Juggalo types could be vulnerable to charismatic individuals with nefarious goals. Charles Manson was influential in the LA commune movement and got very loyal followers. The FBI hedges their bets these days, I guess.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 01:49 |
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Splooge_Lord posted:It would be similar if all the "Lil Weezy" fans were investigated for criminal activity and grouped together. The difference here being that one group of people don't call themselves a name just for being fans. McDowell posted:It seems like Juggalo types could be vulnerable to charismatic individuals with nefarious goals. Charles Manson was influential in the LA commune movement and got very loyal followers. The FBI hedges their bets these days, I guess.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 02:47 |
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McDowell posted:Matt Drudge thinks it's the year of Alex Jones; not the year of Adam Curtis, or Noam Chomsky, or James Galbraith, or Robert Reich. Why is that?
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| # ? May 7, 2013 05:10 |
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Aesop Poprock posted:Doesn't the FBI list Juggalos as a violent gang or something along those lines? McDowell posted:I don't know how you can read this thread and still give Alex Jones, InfoWars, and RT any credibility. Every time you post about the RT/Jones plot to destroy America's otherwise well-functioning political system you sound more like J. Edgar Hoover.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 06:44 |
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Gazpacho posted:Every time you post about the RT/Jones plot to destroy America's otherwise well-functioning political system you sound more like J. Edgar Hoover. Jones and RT have increasing influence on the narrative as people (consciously or not) begin to see through mass media and the perception management of two party 'democracy'. RT does provide 'pure' information when it suits their agenda, and I do respect that idea (like their video of Petraeus's girlfriend talking about Benghazi). I just want people to know that Alex Jones and RT have a goal: embarassing and undermining the American government. The postmodern information landscape makes it easier to challenge authority, but it also lets individuals create their own narrative - which restores 'might is right' and destroys what's left of Enlightenment democracy. I don't want to see the crumbling American Dream destroy the American Experiment as well, there is something to be said for patriotism, even if the past 10 years have made it superficial and gaudy.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 13:04 |
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McDowell posted:I just want people to know that Alex Jones and RT have a goal: embarassing and undermining the American government. The government does a fine job of that on its own. I love this alternative media. It is out of control, and that is a good thing. Mainstream media has lost its edge when it comes to investigative reporting. Much like alternative music, most of it is poo poo, but occasionally nuggets of truth emerge. Benghazi is a great example. The mainstream was ready to let this just go away, but the right-wing fringe, alternative media kept the story alive. Wow, turns out our government lied. Media is supposed to be our way of keeping the government in check. What has happened is that our media and our leaders in Washington are in bed. Reporters don't want to lose their A-List status and not be invited to the swanky parties. Journalism suffers. Let's remember how Matt Drudge got famous in the first place; he caught wind of a spiked Newsweek story about Clinton loving around with his 20 something intern and published that poo poo.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 15:15 |
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The problem is that plenty of these people are hucksters who aren't interested in informing the public and improving democracy. Spectacle and scandal can keep people in thrall, and wealth is even more effective at obfuscating things when there is so much disbelief and distrust. Who really cares about Bill Clinton getting a blow job? The bigger story of that period was the economic crisis of Asia and Russia; Lewinsky was a symptom of the national complacency that resulted from the 'end of history', when Congress could repeal Glass-Steagall while no one was paying attention.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 15:44 |
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Tarq posted:Much like alternative music, most of it is poo poo, but occasionally nuggets of truth emerge. Benghazi is a great example. The mainstream was ready to let this just go away, but the right-wing fringe, alternative media kept the story alive. Wow, turns out our government lied. Is this in regards to the original claim that it was a spontaneous demonstration that turned violent, or was there something else?
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| # ? May 7, 2013 15:49 |
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Aesop Poprock posted:Is this in regards to the original claim that it was a spontaneous demonstration that turned violent, or was there something else? That and the bullshit about the YouTube video. Several whistle-blowers are now coming forward with information that there was a decision made to order our rescue forces to stand down. Point is, there is a larger story here and our government has been caught lying about the situation. Folks like Drudge and Alex Jones are keeping this story alive so that the truth might actually come to light. Boston is another great example. We had armed police forcing citizens into their homes at gun point. There were also conducing illegal searches of people's homes. Again, nobody is talking about these gross civil rights violations except the alternative media.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 18:35 |
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Tarq posted:Boston is another great example. We had armed police forcing citizens into their homes at gun point. There were also conducing illegal searches of people's homes. Again, nobody is talking about these gross civil rights violations except the alternative media. Please go talk about it in the Boston thread. Maybe that will help you realize why 'nobody' is talking about this.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 18:41 |
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There was nothing deploying those guys would have accomplished, they were hours away. There was a CIA presence on the ground but they didn't want to risk their cover. The Arab Spring has thrown international politics into disarray and Benghazi is just one facet that the right wing press has fixated on as a way to gently caress with the President. It goes back at least to the 'Green Revolution' in Iran near the beginning of Hillary's tenure at the State Department. The closest we got to populist foreign policy was WikiLeaks and repeating Benghazi manufactured outrage only does so much. That said, there are good reasons not to vote for dynasty politicians. And don't even start that (Kremlin sanctioned) boo-hooing about Boston. An act of terrorism like that was going to get a national security theater response - and it was done more professionally than the Dorner manhunt. If someone like Breivik, Loughner, Wade Michael-Page, or Adam Lanza went on the run we'd expect the same all-out effort to bring them to justice.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 18:48 |
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Here's my question about Jones and theorists like him. Does he accept that sometimes people really do blow things up, or shoot a load of people, or send some poison through the mail, without any intervention from the state? Or is every terror attack and shooting a "false flag", perpetrated by the devious CIA/NSA/Illuminati?
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| # ? May 7, 2013 19:05 |
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Andy Impey posted:Or is every terror attack and shooting a "false flag", perpetrated by the devious CIA/NSA/Illuminati? He was willing to suggest Hurricane Sandy was a false flag, so it is a 'whatever sticks' approach.
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| # ? May 7, 2013 19:12 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 01:26 |
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yeah, the alex jones people literally believe the government has a weather controlling machine in Alaska. loving nature is a false flag to them. That's the beauty(and horror) of Jones' brand of horse poo poo, absolutely anything that ever happens is something he can yell about according to his own version of reality.
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| # ? May 8, 2013 22:10 |
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