Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Etherwind
Apr 22, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 79 days!
Soiled Meat
I've got mad respect for SurreptitiousMuffin from Thunderdome, so here's my attempt to support this thread: something personal.

Etherwind posted:

Fallen

You died on a cold and rainy night
And I knew it when it happened;
How strange we must both have looked,
Me in my brother's bed, still needing,
You in a hospital bed, still, bleeding,
Both as alone as each other -
Though you were surrounded -
As we confronted the darkest fear
You had known, and I had felt.

I dreamed that a policeman came
To knock upon our door and take you
To the hospital-station, your knitted blanket
Thrown up like a wall between us,
Thrown like your cry of despair:
I awoke with one short word -
It must have been familiar -
That summarised every day since
Illness came, your life arrested.

The two last times I went to see you
I did not want to be there:
In either case I was too anxious
To be in the room with you, hearing you speak,
To be in the room with you, seeing you stilled,
And each time I pressed your cheek -
With a farewell caress -
I was not thinking when I next
Would see you, and be held dear.

Song of my soul, all words are late,
And all I dreamed your death has ate:
Every word, every fiction,
Each love and each hate,
All feelings but numbness
Are lost on this date.

I was told that you would stay;
I was told you were gone;
But never both.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Etherwind
Apr 22, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 79 days!
Soiled Meat

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Overall thoughts: cliche is death to poetry. Try to find new ways to say things. Play around with linebreaks a bit more to create a greater sense of movement (this one applies to all of you). There's a solid emotional core there but its clothes are too dull and stiff.

You are for real-real when it comes to poetry, so expect me to toss some more complicated stuff your way in the future (I'm working on my prose right now). Most useful criticism I've had in a good while.

Regards the poem, the only thing I will say is that all those clichés in such a short section that breaks so utterly from the established scheme was absolutely intentional, though I'm guessing what I was going for didn't come across. Oh well! Never intend this one for publication, anyway.

Etherwind
Apr 22, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 79 days!
Soiled Meat
I didn't mean it was intentionally bad, I said it was intentionally cliché. I didn't pull off the execution right.

Etherwind
Apr 22, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 79 days!
Soiled Meat

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

'what if I just don't get it.'

Some of the best advice anyone ever gave me was that, when in doubt, to assume that other people really don't know any better than you until proven otherwise. Of course, the flip-side of that is recognising and accepting when they do...

Etherwind
Apr 22, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 79 days!
Soiled Meat

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Not because it's bad: because it's fantastic up until the last line and you completely flub the landing in a really understated way that I can't quite articulate. It doesn't scan well at all but I'm at a complete loss to tell you why.

I'm not! For scansion I read:

- / - / - / - / -
- / - / - / - / -

Which should work fine, right? It would, were it not for two things:
  1. The climactic sentence starts with a weak anchor (we're all guilty of this, and it's not a killer on its own).
  2. "Axolotls" doesn't rhyme with "bottles."
Around this point you're probably saying "Yes it does, Etherwind, you loving moron." Except it doesn't, because rhyme isn't solely a construct of the sound of words, despite what all the definitions may say. Rhyme is also the relation of two words in how they're parsed, the degree of difficulty in their parsing, and in their consonance and assonance on the page.

Quick! Say "bottles!"

Quick! Say "axolotls!"

One of those is much harder to intuitively parse than the other, so much so that it becomes an imperfect rhyme when the reader's confronted by it. In other parts of the poem you can shrug and carry it along, but on the final line? It's an awkward landing.

Parsing "bottles" sets the mind up with a particular lexical method of interpreting the word to follow. The reader expects a word that ends something like "ottles", but then you throw them for a loop with "otls." It's under a different pronunciation scheme, from a different language, and so it's not internally consistent as a rhyme.

If you write them both phonetically, yeah, they're a perfect rhyme. Unfortunately, writing in English is not phonetic, and rhymes are impacted by it.

As an experiment:

Now oft, when on the couch I lie,
The doctor asks me what I see.
They flash upon my inward eye
And make me laugh in fiendish glee.
So I forget them axolotls,
And find my solace then in bottles.


Still not quite right, but better, yeah? It's because it's easier to revert from a foreign method of reading to a native one than the other way around.

Hope this is at least somewhat helpful.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Etherwind
Apr 22, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 79 days!
Soiled Meat

Okay, since you've clearly got a better grasp of this than me: step up. What's the problem? Why doesn't it work on the page, if it's an absolutely perfect rhyme? :allears:

  • Locked thread