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Paino
Apr 21, 2007

by T. Finninho


Mazerunner posted:

These... don't really have much to with each other though. I thought the second story was pretty well just as serviceable as the first, and you can't tell me the game didn't have tension. The elementary school, the return to the Ishimura, the Stalkers, the frozen crypt... even the regular corridors had exactly the same amount of suspense to them as the first game.

edit: basically what I'm saying is that judging the second (and the third too now probably) as being totally an action game because it has a few scripted sequences is totally ignoring the 95% of the rest of the game which isn't.

The second DS had tension the way Resident Evil 4 had tension. There was some, but both games marked the moment a survival horror game shifted to an action-y game. There's nothing terribly wrong about that either, even though personally I never played RE again after Nemesis.

You don't build good suspense quantitatively. DS2 might even have more scary moments than its predecessor, but they are way, way cheaper and the atmosphere just isn't there. It tries too hard.

edit: again though, DS2 is still a great action game and I'd play DS3 if it were a similar game

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NESguerilla
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk Clunk Clunk clunk


I seriously don't understand why people always say DS1 was more horror than 2. They both felt like horror themed action games to me. If anything I would say the second one was creepier.

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SWERVE



I actually kind of preferred DS2 dropping some "scariness" in favor of being fun and intense, because for real I am a grown-rear end man playing a video game. I'm not going to be legit worried about what spooky thing is going to jump out at me next or what that creaky ship sound could have been.

And I get that y'all heard that the shark is scary in Jaws because you never see it, but by DS2/3 you've already seen and killed like a million sharks with your bare hands. What do you have to be tense about anymore? At this point, the player and Isaac are way closer to John McClane than Laurie Strode. It would be silly to be all "Oh no, I'm terrorfied of this situation (that I've been in hundreds of times before)."

Mazerunner
Apr 22, 2010

Flipping the Fuck Out


Paino posted:

The second DS had tension the way Resident Evil 4 had tension. There was some, but both games marked the moment a survival horror game shifted to an action-y game. There's nothing terribly wrong about that either, even though personally I never played RE again after Nemesis.

You don't build good suspense quantitatively. DS2 might even have more scary moments than its predecessor, but they are way, way cheaper and the atmosphere just isn't there. It tries too hard.

edit: again though, DS2 is still a great action game and I'd play DS3 if it were a similar game

I just disagree with that though. I haven't played any of the REs, but yeah from what I understand there was a big jump in 4, but I just don't see that in Dead Space.

For the vast majority of 2, you're doing the exact same stuff as the first. Go through dark corridor, creepy whispers, enemy(ies) jump out, shoot them, grab loot. The only difference is that Isaac and the enemies move a bit faster, and the buttons for reload/heal/recharge are better laid out. If that's enough to move a game from horror to action, then honestly I'd have to argue that DS1 wasn't pure horror then. Maybe going from horror-action to action-horror in 2, but still, not a big difference.

You're still moving cautiously, unsure about what's around the next bend, you still get hosed if you face too many guys at once (and don't know what you're doing), there's still the creepy voices and weird architecture and blah blah.

I'll agree that all the 'Isaac is insane/Nicole is talking' flashes were kind of stupid jump scares for the most part, but again, stuff like the school or the first bit of the Ishimura were waaay more tense than anything in one. Like, even though I know there's no enemies at first in both those places I still get freaked out, and isn't that what horror's all about?

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

I don't really think the problem is whether or not this game is any more or less horror-y compared to the previous titles, but that it just seems to be just less unique as a whole. Dead Space up until now has basically been Resident Evil 4+Aliens. It fulfilled this role very admirably. By throwing in stuff that makes it literally more like every other goddamn game it just loses some of it's identity, and with it, my interest in the series.

What I'm trying to say is that no one will ever make me play a Lost Planet game again, no matter how they try to stealth it up on me

Serious Frolicking
Jul 1, 2007
Awkward phrasing, for the most part.


In the end, I don't really care because I buy just about anything with a coop campaign. Coop is its own beast.

milquetoast child
Jun 27, 2003

literally


For anyone who wants 360 early access codes, Dead Space has an offer on the Facebook page. Just hit Get Offer to get the 5x5 to redeem on your xbox.com account

https://www.facebook.com/deadspace/...151223960581659

The PS3 demo and 360 demo go live fully on the 22nd.

do girls poop
Nov 27, 2011

the jury is in, verdict: retarded

CJacobs posted:

Personally I think Visceral is pulling a Resident Evil 4 here and mostly ditching the horror to focus on the action.

This is such a strange thing to hear considering how much DS1 was influenced by RE4 and the similarities shared between the two.

Paino
Apr 21, 2007

by T. Finninho


Mazerunner posted:

I just disagree with that though. I haven't played any of the REs, but yeah from what I understand there was a big jump in 4, but I just don't see that in Dead Space.

For the vast majority of 2, you're doing the exact same stuff as the first. Go through dark corridor, creepy whispers, enemy(ies) jump out, shoot them, grab loot. The only difference is that Isaac and the enemies move a bit faster, and the buttons for reload/heal/recharge are better laid out. If that's enough to move a game from horror to action, then honestly I'd have to argue that DS1 wasn't pure horror then. Maybe going from horror-action to action-horror in 2, but still, not a big difference.

You're still moving cautiously, unsure about what's around the next bend, you still get hosed if you face too many guys at once (and don't know what you're doing), there's still the creepy voices and weird architecture and blah blah.

I'll agree that all the 'Isaac is insane/Nicole is talking' flashes were kind of stupid jump scares for the most part, but again, stuff like the school or the first bit of the Ishimura were waaay more tense than anything in one. Like, even though I know there's no enemies at first in both those places I still get freaked out, and isn't that what horror's all about?

On the topic of tension/being scared playing a videogame: as Amnesia, Fatal Frame, Silent Hill and the first 2 RE have shown it depends on pacing and subtle use of visual/aural cues, not showing too much, making you feel relatively powerless compared to the threats (real or imagined) around you, etc. You can't fill a game with action and expect it to be scary. It doesn't work like that. DS2 quickly creates a feeling of sensory overload which might be good or necessary in action games, but it's a death sentence in survival horror. DS1 wasn't perfect mind you, and there was a bit too much action by the end, but it had much better pacing up to that point.

That said, depending on how sensitive you are to a certain atmosphere, even DS2 might be occasionally scary, I'll give you that. Hell, there are players who found RE4 to be creepy. To each his own.

Paino fucked around with this message at Jan 19, 2013 around 17:52

Nickname Pending
Jan 2, 2008

I learned how to play beer pong from the Prince of Uganda at a university party.

At this point, I think I'm mostly getting the game to see where the story goes and because I enjoy Isaac as a character. Obviously I can't judge too much until I see the final product, but from what I've see so far, I'm not as thrilled as I was with the first two. It feels like they taken away some of the stuff that made the first two great. Sometimes change in a game is a good thing, but in this case, they seem to really he focusing too much on pure action. I guess we will all see the truth when we finally play, but I'm not holding my breath just yet.

Mazerunner
Apr 22, 2010

Flipping the Fuck Out


Paino posted:

On the topic of tension/being scared playing a videogame: as Amnesia, Fatal Frame, Silent Hill and the first 2 RE have shown it depends on pacing and subtle use of visual/aural cues, not showing too much, making you feel relatively powerless compared to the threats (real or imagined) around you, etc. You can't fill a game with action and expect it to be scary. It doesn't work like that. DS2 quickly creates a feeling of sensory overload which might be good or necessary in action games, but it's a death sentence in survival horror. DS1 wasn't perfect mind you, and there was a bit too much action by the end, but it had much better pacing up to that point.

That said, depending on how sensitive you are to a certain atmosphere, even DS2 might be occasionally scary, I'll give you that. Hell, there are players who found RE4 to be creepy. To each his own.

I agree with all that, but again, my argument there is that using those criteria, the original Dead Space wasn't any more a survival horror or really that much less actiony than 2 (they were both action horror).

In terms of actual gameplay, both have very similar pacing of introduction to new enemies, and Isaac's power relative to them (powerups, new weapons, etc). The real difference is familiarity, where someone just playing 1 for the first time isn't going to know all the necros, while someone playing 2 has (probably) got a whole game getting to know them, so yeah they have to change things up a bit because a single slasher hasn't been a big deal since like Chapter 3 of the first game. But again, I could take an average 5 minute clip of Isaac doing his stuff on the Ishimura, an average of Isaac on the Sprawl, and show them to someone who hasn't played either and they would not say that one was any more 'action' than the other.

As for filling it with action, again I disagree. I played through both games over the last week or so and honestly, there wasn't really that much a difference. 2 has some high-octane set pieces, but they're like 2 minutes each every 2 hours, and they're the relief, then big drop after the preceding climb. They're more memorable, because they're so different than the rest. 95% of the game has exactly the same amount of action, and tension and scariness that the first did. I want to say you're either over-estimating the 'action' in 2, or under-estimating it in 1.

MadBimber
Dec 31, 2006


Corrected the part about an AI partner. I meant that Carver wouldn't require any outside intervention to do whatever, but I wasn't very clear, so thank you for pointing it out!

Hollenhammer posted:

Pretty sure this was removed from the game when the testers didn't like it.... I read about it in the DS2 thread

I don't think we've seen conclusively yet whether universal ammo is in or not. I'm taking what the demo shows for now, which is universal, but if the actual release is different I'll change it up.

Edit: Also does anyone have a GIF of Isaac stomping lots of poo poo? Would love to add that to the OP.

MadBimber fucked around with this message at Jan 19, 2013 around 20:57

Fibby Boy
Jan 7, 2012

Mmm... Offshore Toast!


Just tried out the demo and thought it was pretty great. Can't wait for the full game so I can see what they do with the story.

Nick_326
Nov 2, 2011

History's Latest Monster


MadBimber posted:

I don't think we've seen conclusively yet whether universal ammo is in or not. I'm taking what the demo shows for now, which is universal, but if the actual release is different I'll change it up.

Universal ammo won't be in the final game:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...n-dead-space-3/

"That last one is easy; apparently the universal ammo that showed up in demonstration videos, and indeed in the early version of the game I played, is a placeholder and will not be in the final version of Dead Space 3."

Also, where are you hearing that you can only hold two guns at a time?

The demo was fine, but man, I really dislike the new bench system. Maybe it'll grow on me, but I really preferred the old upgrade system with the power nodes. The new rig/suit version was ok, but the new weapon thing left a bad taste in my mouth. It reminded me of something out of a JRPG, like the customizable gummi ship thing in Kingdom Hearts, or that cooking/recipe aspect of Tales of Vesperia. I love both of those games, but I stayed the hell away from those mechanics/options/whatever because they were boring, confusing, frustrating, and were never actually necessary. Also, my TV is old and not a big-screen, so the text is super hard to read.

MadBimber
Dec 31, 2006


Nick_326 posted:

Universal ammo won't be in the final game:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...n-dead-space-3/

"That last one is easy; apparently the universal ammo that showed up in demonstration videos, and indeed in the early version of the game I played, is a placeholder and will not be in the final version of Dead Space 3."

Also, where are you hearing that you can only hold two guns at a time?

The demo was fine, but man, I really dislike the new bench system. Maybe it'll grow on me, but I really preferred the old upgrade system with the power nodes. The new rig/suit version was ok, but the new weapon thing left a bad taste in my mouth. It reminded me of something out of a JRPG, like the customizable gummi ship thing in Kingdom Hearts, or that cooking/recipe aspect of Tales of Vesperia. I love both of those games, but I stayed the hell away from those mechanics/options/whatever because they were boring, confusing, frustrating, and were never actually necessary. Also, my TV is old and not a big-screen, so the text is super hard to read.

I thought I'd read that two guns was the new norm from demo impressions, but maybe I misread? You'll have to forgive me, as a PC gamer I am only able to get stuff second hand, hence the clause about correcting the OP

I still don't trust that RPS article though, if they still have universal in the demo I'd just as soon wait till the game is out. Or until Mortuus comes a long and confirms it either way.

Haruharuharuko
Mar 24, 2008

It takes an idiot to do cool things. That's why it's cool.


Ok is it just me or are the audio stings whenever a necromorph jumps up incredibly annoying. I'm not trying to nitpick but it really seems too horror movie cliche'. Not that the previous ones weren't but it seems that they were trying really hard to "amp up" the horror aspect instead of actually showing real horror stuff. That's just me I guess.

do girls poop
Nov 27, 2011

the jury is in, verdict: retarded

I seriously doubt that the universal ammo is going to be in the final game. Having weapons like the plasma cutter and the contact beam draw from the same ammo pool makes no loving sense and it removes a significant element of efficient inventory management, which was a huge part of the previous two games (at least on the harder difficulties).

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

A beast to kill a beast...


As someone whose entire Dead Space experience is the first movie and Let's Plays, why would they bring back the Regenerator? That seemed like the worst part of Dead Space 1 and 2.

Aloofa
Apr 24, 2010


Is the demo build pretty old? Played co-op with my brother and while we both loved it we both agreed it felt kinda sluggish. When I pulled the trigger sometimes my gun didn't fire while sometimes it fired right away. Also, it seemed like some of the shots didn't hit the enemies.

Ryaomon
Mar 19, 2007

Yare yare daze...

Played the demo and was thoroughly unimpressed with just about everything. Nothing scared me and human enemies, co-op and a cover system means this series has basically lost its horror roots which is awful because it was those roots that made everyone enjoy the original game so much. I wouldn't even bother getting it if you're invested in the story since in Dead Space 2 they say there are at least 11 other Markers out there so they'll drag this poo poo on as long as it makes them money, story be damned.

AlmightyBob
Sep 8, 2003



I liked the first one more than the second not because it was scarier or anything, but because it was more adventure than action. The second one felt more like a straight action run from beginning to end, and somehow felt even more linear even though the first one was just as bad in that regard.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009


NESguerilla posted:

I seriously don't understand why people always say DS1 was more horror than 2. They both felt like horror themed action games to me. If anything I would say the second one was creepier.

I liked how DS2 didn't have you turn up after all the poo poo had gone down and you were playing clean-up. Nope, you're in the middle of it. Opening the doors to the apartment complex and seeing the mass panic was a hell of a scene.

Samara
Jan 6, 2011

quote:

Deposited $150 at Mt Gox to try this Bitcoin thing out.

Stolen 6 days later. Really enjoyed my time there.

Helpful? Please donate - being this retarded ain't cheap!

Samara Investments
Basement Suite #101
Mom's House, Hometown FL
USAAA+

Let's all agree on one thing:

Shooting asteroids on the Ishimura was the worst part of this series. Let us never speak of it again.

Flopstick
Jul 10, 2011


Schubalts posted:

As someone whose entire Dead Space experience is the first movie and Let's Plays, why would they bring back the Regenerator? That seemed like the worst part of Dead Space 1 and 2.

Because they're absolute morons.

I won't be buying this. Everything I read about it just sounds terrible. I regretted getting 2 at full price as it was.

Hollenhammer
Dec 6, 2005



MadBimber posted:

Corrected the part about an AI partner. I meant that Carver wouldn't require any outside intervention to do whatever, but I wasn't very clear, so thank you for pointing it out!


I don't think we've seen conclusively yet whether universal ammo is in or not. I'm taking what the demo shows for now, which is universal, but if the actual release is different I'll change it up.

Edit: Also does anyone have a GIF of Isaac stomping lots of poo poo? Would love to add that to the OP.

It's not completely conclusive but our resident dev talks about it here (and ealier on the page)

MortuusLupus
May 7, 2007

WILL THIS NEVER END?


Universal ammo is final, for reasons I can get into later, but that decision made a lot of problems go away when we didn't have the bandwidth to deal with them. On one hand it means if there is a specific weapon you like you'll always be able to use it. The downside is that if you run out of ammo it's for all guns, but the way the ammo drop system works is if you don't have at lease one full reload for two firing modules (top or bottom on any/all gun guns), enemies and containers will be forced to drop ammo.

There are also a couple bugs in the demo that were fixed before final. Melee modules do use ammo, one per swing, and the invisible weapon bug I saw reported elsewhere is fixed.

DS 3 is far and away the biggest thing I've ever worked on, should end up being about 50% longer than 2 for you guys who just seem to tear rear end through these things. In playtests normal people took about 20 hours on average in single player, 23 coop.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009


MortuusLupus posted:

On one hand it means if there is a specific weapon you like you'll always be able to use it.

I did this anyway with regular ammo types. Because of the limited inventory space, if a weapon was only useful in very specific situations, or was only for shits and giggles, I wouldn't use it, and fill up the inventory with ammo for guns I would use. There were a fair few guns I never used beyond a quick test (contact beam comes to mind), while possibly 70% of combat was with the trusty plasma cutter. If anything, universal ammo will make me more open to experimenting, because I don't have to waste precious inventory space on near-useless ammo.

ApexAftermath
May 24, 2006

reaching
present participle of reach
To draw a conclusion based on more than a moment's thought.


Hey Mortuus is it just me or is the demo a little sluggish at times? It's not really bad, but I do notice the aiming and weapons are kind of sluggish to use if that makes sense.

I'm starting to think it might just be the 360 showing its age.

William Bear
Oct 25, 2012


MadJackMcJack posted:

I did this anyway with regular ammo types. Because of the limited inventory space, if a weapon was only useful in very specific situations, or was only for shits and giggles, I wouldn't use it, and fill up the inventory with ammo for guns I would use. There were a fair few guns I never used beyond a quick test (contact beam comes to mind), while possibly 70% of combat was with the trusty plasma cutter. If anything, universal ammo will make me more open to experimenting, because I don't have to waste precious inventory space on near-useless ammo.

I agree. I became complacent in the first two games. I generally carried around the plasma cutter, the rifle, and a force gun in both games. DS3 is looking so far like it encourages experimentation.

MortuusLupuus and his comrades are smart designers.

MortuusLupus
May 7, 2007

WILL THIS NEVER END?


ApexAftermath posted:

Hey Mortuus is it just me or is the demo a little sluggish at times? It's not really bad, but I do notice the aiming and weapons are kind of sluggish to use if that makes sense.

I'm starting to think it might just be the 360 showing its age.

Not sure, really. I'm so used to playing in debug unoptimized mode where it usually runs at 12 fps

Some guns take longer to open up and turn on aiming lasers than others, but you can fire them all before the open anim is finished, if that's what you mean.


Edit: Also, 360 and PS3 are old as gently caress. My phone has more ram. I can't wait for this generation to end.

MortuusLupus fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 19:14

Nickname Pending
Jan 2, 2008

I learned how to play beer pong from the Prince of Uganda at a university party.

Does anyone else feel the drill boss is kind of silly and stressful?

ApexAftermath
May 24, 2006

reaching
present participle of reach
To draw a conclusion based on more than a moment's thought.


MortuusLupus posted:

Edit: Also, 360 and PS3 are old as gently caress. My phone has more ram. I can't wait for this generation to end.

Agreed. Only reason I am getting it on xbox instead of PC at this point is because of how smooth xbox live will make the co-op experience. I'll probably pick it up on PC eventually however.

I'm assuming some of that sluggishness I am seeing has to do with rate of fire and other stats on the guns not being upgraded at the bench yet.

Anyways I am super excited for this game. Glad to hear it's longer.

Nickname Pending posted:

Does anyone else feel the drill boss is kind of silly and stressful?

I'm torn on this. I kind of agree with you, but I'm wondering if it just feels that way because we've been seeing this same demo footage for awhile now. It is a pretty tedious fight but at least it is quick. I suppose it could get pretty nightmarish on a harder difficulty though.

ApexAftermath fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 19:32

AlmightyBob
Sep 8, 2003



Welp if the universal ammo is final then I'm gonna have to wait and see what people think before buying it.

NESguerilla
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk Clunk Clunk clunk


AlmightyBob posted:

I liked the first one more than the second not because it was scarier or anything, but because it was more adventure than action. The second one felt more like a straight action run from beginning to end, and somehow felt even more linear even though the first one was just as bad in that regard.

Even though I generally prefer a less linear game, I still liked DS2 much more than 1 because I thought the non linear stuff in DS1 was just sloppy. You could run off in the wrong direction but it never really paid off. Usually you just ended up running somewhere that you eventually were going to have to anyway, until you hit a locked door because the game doesn't want you to go any further. I also thought the environments in DS2 were a lot more interesting. DS1 was just corridor after corridor.

Xenin
Nov 5, 2004


The demo on 360 was snappy and responsive for me, but I did notice that the line gun/shotgun I crafted for myself ended up having horrid refire time on both tools. It ended up making combat feel sluggish and stilted in the enemy's favor. My advice to anyone feeling sluggish is to not let all those powerhouse weapons at the bench fool you, and to instead craft something tried and true like a plasma cutter variant.

I'm not going to get into the can of worms that is sacrificing the atmosphere and artistic vision of DS1 because what we're going to get is what we're going to get. I honestly enjoyed playing my 40 min of co-op sci-fi action shooter, regardless of if the full game is like that non stop.

My one and only real criticism is that shooting enemies, especially humans, seems to have less impact than before. Things dismember with far greater difficulty, and I've never experienced so many instances of an enemy simply dying from being shot before ever breaking into pieces. And this is with me using the plasma cutter and always going for the legs. If enemies aren't breaking apart into pieces, and are lacking reactive hit physics or blood spurts, then we're left with the worst of both worlds and the player has no satisfying feedback that what they're doing is actually working. It's the only thing that made combat unsatisfying, this feeling that I'm shooting stiff wooden mannequins that simply fall over after enough shots.

VoLaTiLe
Oct 21, 2010

He's Behind you

Personally universal ammo I feel takes away from the survival aspect of the last two, deciding how much ammo and for which weapon always felt like a hard decision for me.

How comes you dev's decided taking the tension and horror of the 1st game and replacing it with action pieces was a good idea?

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed Dead Space 2 and will probably pick this up if it gets good feedback, but it seems this francise will end up ditching all the horror aspects and basically turn it into another resident evil 6 but in space.

Mr. Pumroy
May 20, 2001

how i wonder what you are


Haruharuharuko posted:

Ok is it just me or are the audio stings whenever a necromorph jumps up incredibly annoying. I'm not trying to nitpick but it really seems too horror movie cliche'. Not that the previous ones weren't but it seems that they were trying really hard to "amp up" the horror aspect instead of actually showing real horror stuff. That's just me I guess.

You mean like how audio stings in Dead Space 1 and 2 were annoying or does Dead Space 3 have a unique brand of annoying because they all had jarring audio stings.

Magmarashi
May 20, 2009

PKWAFFLES


VoLaTiLe posted:

Personally universal ammo I feel takes away from the survival aspect of the last two, deciding how much ammo and for which weapon always felt like a hard decision for me.

Try to think of it as the exact same limitation, but with a cosmetic swap. Instead of having to manage how much of each type of ammo you have vs. what others you want to carry, each shot with one weapon is a shot you can't take with another.

ApexAftermath
May 24, 2006

reaching
present participle of reach
To draw a conclusion based on more than a moment's thought.


AlmightyBob posted:

Welp if the universal ammo is final then I'm gonna have to wait and see what people think before buying it.

As long as ammo drops are just as consistent at they were in previous games I really don't see why should be such a dealbreaker. The two things that I have been told is that it makes it more of a challenge/if you run out of ammo you run out for all guns. I guess I can see the point about the challenge part, but I usually only kept the 3 weapons I knew I would want to use on me so I never had ammo dropping that I didn't need. The "run out of ammo for all guns" quibble really kind of confuses me because in the previous games if you run out of ammo you run out of ammo. I guess I don't see the distinction here. Do some people carry an extra weapon they don't like using just so every so often they can run out of all ammo except for that gun and then it becomes a challenge?

Magmarashi posted:

Try to think of it as the exact same limitation, but with a cosmetic swap. Instead of having to manage how much of each type of ammo you have vs. what others you want to carry, each shot with one weapon is a shot you can't take with another.

Exactly.

ApexAftermath fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 20:24

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Belan
May 7, 2007


Xenin posted:

My one and only real criticism is that shooting enemies, especially humans, seems to have less impact than before. Things dismember with far greater difficulty, and I've never experienced so many instances of an enemy simply dying from being shot before ever breaking into pieces.

The crowd EA is courting doesn't have time for silly poo poo like strategic dismemberment. I wonder how hard Visceral had to fight against health regeneration.

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