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Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Oy Space marines your fiance ain't so easy to kill!

Nephilm posted:

1. Your tech progression has nothing to do with the enemies that show up.
This is not true. Beelining plasma weapons will cause Mutons to show up a bit earlier than they otherwise would (I got them on the 19th of Month 2 when i did this, and I have reproduced it a couple times).

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

WeaponBoy posted:

If I try to close in and flank them (Run & Gun + Rapid Fire with an Alloy Cannon is one of the most reliable tactics) then I usually end up inviting some buddies to the fight and then I'm almost guaranteed to lose 1-2 soldiers. Should I just be trying to pull them backwards by breaking LOS? They seem perfectly happy to huddle up and snipe with their insane hit chances for-loving-ever.
Yes. Your first move with your first soldier should be your scouting move. When the scout reveals strong groups, pull back and set other soldiers on overwatch (snipers, supports at the back) or hunkered down (the guys in front). Let them come to you. Also, you might try swapping out a support for a second heavy or sniper -- once you have a support with the 3x medkit uses that should be enough healing.


Coolguye posted:

Yes? Any later and most of your initial crop of officers will be big liabilities against Sectoid Commanders and Ethereals. Early Iron Will saves you the effort and risk involved in training a late game A-Team. Even with early IW your first officers will be inherently inferior, but the extra Will they get is a Big Deal.
Ok, well then tack some of this to differences in gameplay. I go by the adage "they can't mind control you if they're dead" and care much less about maximum will. I don't intentionally cycle through a second set of soldiers with OTS bonuses for super psi resistance. If a sectoid commander or ethereal even makes the attempt at mind controlling, I have hosed Up and deserve lose my dude on a dice roll.

I will grant you this about the Asia start: it is the most worthless continent to acquire after the fact. Two $60 countries? Hell no. The bonus feels good even if it's not the most powerful monetarily, but Asia is absolutely the first continent to throw to the wolves.

Klyith fucked around with this message at Jan 19, 2013 around 23:03

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Coolguye posted:

If you're in Asia, yes. If you're in NA or elsewhere I'd probably put it off to month 2.

So your usual Asia start is to not buy satellites?

In any case, let us assume you're following the exact same build order in both an Asia and NA start.

America you start with $275, and spend the full cost of Squad Size I/II + Wet Work.

275-50-75-125 = $25 left over.

Asia you start with $165 and spend half cost of the above upgrades.

165-125 = $40

So Asia wins, right? Nope, because then you reach the end of the month and add your council funding.

NA: $25+$180= 205
Asia: $40+$100= 140

Note I'm intentionally leaving out costs and gains that are exactly the same for the sake of simplification. For instance, both starts pay exactly the same for the OTS construction, and both get at the start of Month 2 the same base funding plus let's assume they picked the same country for their satellite. Of course if we were realistic then NA would be able to get the OTS upgrades sooner since their bottleneck for them is time and soldier experience while Asia is more strapped for cash, and for Asia their best monetary option for a satellite would be USA so $100+180 whereas NA start can go for Russia and get $180+$150. But again, simplifications.

And you mentioned Iron Will? Well, yeah, sure, it's an excellent upgrade and taking it certainly closes the gap a bit more (5 vs 40), but I sincerely doubt you'll have a Major until the end of Month 2, and having cash to you know, build facilities and satellites and poo poo throughout Month 2 just seems more useful than not having it while hoping one of your soldiers will level high enough before the 2nd council report.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Oy Space marines your fiance ain't so easy to kill!

Nephilm posted:

And you mentioned Iron Will? Well, yeah, sure, it's an excellent upgrade and taking it certainly closes the gap a bit more (5 vs 40), but I sincerely doubt you'll have a Major until the end of Month 2
On Impossible this is not difficult at all with how many loving aliens you have to goddamn shoot.

Also, as I already said I usually sell off pretty much the entirety of the first UFO I splash you can reasonably expect that I'm not just focusing on Council funding for my early game funds. It's also kind of boorish to do a one-dimensional analysis of this stuff and declare one better since these things also heavily depend upon the player's play style, which is why I made a point of saying that the only truly 'bad' start is probably South America. I can see use cases for pretty much every other continental start.

3Romeo
Mar 23, 2007

Whatever fucking exists, he said. Whatever in creation exists without my fucking knowledge exists without my fucking consent.

I am not good at this game, but when I pull off something awesome I feel like a goddamned tactical genius.

Panic question: I started in Africa and I'm almost finished locking down the eastern hemisphere with satellites. The West is bright red and two countries have already left X-Com. I haven't even started researching the Containment Facility yet, but I'm rolling with laser weapons and carapace armor. I feel like I'm in a good spot (this is by far my most successful attempt at the game), but every time I feel that way I get 'ed. How hosed or not hosed am I?

edit: This is on Classic.

3Romeo fucked around with this message at Jan 19, 2013 around 23:47

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


3Romeo posted:

I am not good at this game, but when I pull off something awesome I feel like a goddamned tactical genius.

Panic question: I started in Africa and I'm almost finished locking down the eastern hemisphere with satellites. The West is bright red and two countries have already left X-Com. I haven't even started researching the Containment Facility yet, but I'm rolling with laser weapons and carapace armor. I feel like I'm in a good spot (this is by far my most successful attempt at the game), but every time I feel that way I get 'ed. How hosed or not hosed am I?

edit: This is on Classic.

On Classic, I've also started in Africa, locked down all nations, but four left. Cash and panic-wise, I'm golden. All nations are at 1 panic and I have several thousand XCOM funbucks. Once the rest are locked down, you only do UFO missions, so you're fine. It took me forever to get containment as well. Just be prepared for resource shortages; there's a lot less to do with zero abductions.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Coolguye posted:

On Impossible this is not difficult at all with how many loving aliens you have to goddamn shoot.

Also, as I already said I usually sell off pretty much the entirety of the first UFO I splash you can reasonably expect that I'm not just focusing on Council funding for my early game funds. It's also kind of boorish to do a one-dimensional analysis of this stuff and declare one better since these things also heavily depend upon the player's play style, which is why I made a point of saying that the only truly 'bad' start is probably South America. I can see use cases for pretty much every other continental start.

Even if you focus on one guy killing everything (up to per mission XP cap) and not getting wounded, you're not getting a major before Month 2, not even early Month 2.

Also, the analysis is irrelevant of playstyle, which is why I'm making it: the point is that even when the starting bonus of Asia is used to its reasonably maximum advantage, it barely matches up to starting with NA - the latter winning out because it allows you more flexibility if you choose to diverge, yet performing exactly the same if you follow the same course of action.

That for me means it's better; sure you can pick Asia for other reasons, but you've provided no argument that gives it the advantage in the critical early game (first two months) period.

As an aside, Europe stands on similar ground: the starting money advantage of NA means that you get no benefit whatsoever of starting with Europe during your first two months. In non-Marathon runs, at least.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

3Romeo posted:

I haven't even started researching the Containment Facility yet, but I'm rolling with laser weapons and carapace armor. I feel like I'm in a good spot (this is by far my most successful attempt at the game), but every time I feel that way I get 'ed. How hosed or not hosed am I?
You are almost out of the hosed zone. Start work on Containment ASAP, because you need to nab an outsider and do research on it in order to get to the next step of the plot. If you wait around too long at that stage the aliens will fill their base with all sorts of nasties that will make that a near-impossible fight, and throw more and more UFOs at you to try to kill your sats. It sounds like you've beaten the initial march of doom, but now you're on the technology clock.

In particular, in Classic you can still trend upwards in panic even with satellite coverage if you fail some missions.


Coolguye posted:

I can see use cases for pretty much every other continental start.
Ok, I think we can probably end this thole thing with that. Man, this is why nobody wants do be an OP for a game! You say one thing that's more personal choice than objective truth and people jump all over you, even if it wasn't part of the OP.


On the topic of the OP -- this bullet point:

quote:

Soldiers are now promoted purely based on the number of kills they have, instead of the cryptic way they were promoted in UFO. Classes are assigned completely randomly.
should be more like:
Classes are assigned semi-randomly, lightly favoring classes with the fewest soldiers.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Klyith posted:


On the topic of the OP -- this bullet point:

should be more like:
Classes are assigned semi-randomly, lightly favoring classes with the fewest soldiers.

They're also not promoted based solely on kills; that's just the main way they get experience.

teethgrinder
Oct 9, 2002

Nurse?

A lot of the endgame stats are obviously bugged ... but that average damage per shot seems a little ... unfair.

edit: Game twelve, third win. First time winning on classic. Unfortunately I accidentally didn't pick ironman when I started ... it was going great. It's the only time I haven't played ironman, and I definitely save-scummed a few times.

I'm not going to play again until the stupid activate-everything bug gets fixed, and Slingshot goes on sale. Also I encountered the teleportation bug for the first time, a couple of times near endgame.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

teethgrinder fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 01:38

HelmetCheese
Dec 1, 2003


Hah, just saw the ai make the most dumbass 'new player' mistake. Two sectoids reveal and take cover behind a car. My assault shoots at one and misses but wings the car, which puts it on fire. Sectoid #1 then sits tight and mind merges with the other sectoid, both of course dying at the start of the next turn.

Do those count as kills for the lucky soldier who shot the car?

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Oy Space marines your fiance ain't so easy to kill!

Nephilm posted:

Even if you focus on one guy killing everything (up to per mission XP cap) and not getting wounded, you're not getting a major before Month 2, not even early Month 2.

I said before the end of month 2, perhaps you misunderstood me. I have a game that's April 22nd with a Major, a Captain, and 2 Lieutenants if you'd like me to take a quick video of it. I'm 95% sure that was one of my Classic games too, on Impossible you'd have 50% more XP floating around due to all the jerks you have to shoot. So on that mode she probably would've ranked up even faster.

Also, regarding the promotion bullet point on the OP, note that I'm contrasting it with UFO Defense. In that game, promotions would only occur if you had enough soldiers in XCOM's employ, and even then the game made some shadowy determinations of who was 'best' and promoted the 'best' soldier. This sometimes led to weirdness where a soldier who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if he was inside it, has muscles flabby enough that a rifle is too heavy, and is so cowardly that the mere sight of an alien makes him void his bowels would be the X-COM Commander because, underneath all those awful stats, he has 100 Psi Strength. And you'll never know about this until halfway through the game.

This was a big deal in UFO because strategic deployment of officers helped keep your soldiers stable when a few of them died. Squaddies dying was less of a big deal for morale if there was a Captain on the field who was still kicking. Of course, if the Captain got it, everyone was making GBS threads themselves.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 02:57

teethgrinder
Oct 9, 2002

Nurse?

I've beat the game 3/12 times now and played over 90 hours, yet still haven't seen a battleship, blaster launcher or anything past the emp cannon. I could have probably dicked around my last game, but I had tonnes of high-will ready troops and nothing else left to do so ... why not get it over with?

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.

You need to let a Scout-class ship escape. Then a Battleship will turn up to kill your satellite. Judging from videos I've seen(Slingshot and a standard takedown), there's a damm good reason they're 'optional'-they're horrific slogs.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Coolguye posted:

I said before the end of month 2, perhaps you misunderstood me. I have a game that's April 22nd with a Major, a Captain, and 2 Lieutenants if you'd like me to take a quick video of it. I'm 95% sure that was one of my Classic games too, on Impossible you'd have 50% more XP floating around due to all the jerks you have to shoot. So on that mode she probably would've ranked up even faster.

Oh, I understood perfectly, and restated it perfectly. Having a Major by the later third of April is certainly doable, but for the first half of it you just can't due to the XP caps unless you get extremely lucky with mission distribution.

Nothing changes though, I've already went over why even with also buying Iron Will you get no tangential benefit from starting on Asia over NA.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Oy Space marines your fiance ain't so easy to kill!

Nephilm posted:

Oh, I understood perfectly, and restated it perfectly. Having a Major by the later third of April is certainly doable, but for the first half of it you just can't due to the XP caps unless you get extremely lucky with mission distribution.

Nothing changes though, I've already went over why even with also buying Iron Will you get no tangential benefit from starting on Asia over NA.

Well a lot of things change when you consider that the majority of your soldiers will be ranked up right the first time, which is neither something you took into account with your calculations nor something you can really quantify in terms of credits. This is one of the things I was talking about when I was talking about play style, which you (rather confusingly) dismissed as irrelevant? There's also more than just the OTS, the Foundry is not hard to get up and running (you need only research Experimental Warfare), and early SHIVs can be very nice in Impossible for their free Suppression, if you're the sort that dislikes giving Suppress to your Heavies. Supports don't get the skill until LT, which can make dealing with Thin Men a pain. Not my bag really, but I've seen it work. I was sort of hoping we were talking past eachother because otherwise we're going in circles and you are kinda being bullheaded for the sake of being bullheaded.

But seeing as how that's most likely the case at this point I'm just going to pretend you don't exist for a while.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


My new sniper to replace the one who died in the supply barge has hit exactly once and has never, even flanking with height bonus, gotten about 50% to hit, ever. My alloy plasma SHIV, however, has missed never. It hits most targets with a aim status of 100. Sorry Mary, you're obsolete.

I now have 2 alloy shivs and 2 hover shivs. As long as my psychic heavy doesn't die, I don't give a poo poo about the others any more. They are superior in every way except I can't trick them out like my soldiers.

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 04:07

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Coolguye posted:

Well a lot of things change when you consider that the majority of your soldiers will be ranked up right the first time, which is neither something you took into account with your calculations nor something you can really quantify in terms of credits. This is one of the things I was talking about when I was talking about play style, which you (rather confusingly) dismissed as irrelevant?

What are you trying to say with that line there?

And sure, Asia gives you other benefits but past Month 2 you shouldn't have money troubles so it doesn't matter. If you're getting both an OTS and Foundry early in Month 2 on Impossible I'd question your geoscape strategies, though.

nnnotime
Sep 30, 2001

Hesitate, and you will be lost.

Coolguye, thanks for putting up the new thread for this game. The title is excellent (of course I am a little biased). And thanks for throwing up a mention to the mods for the game.

One problem with the last thread was that the OP lost interest in keeping the game information current in his postings. If you are able to keep it updated for the next few DLC releases or patches then hopefully this thread will provide more utility for new and current players.

Thel
Apr 28, 2010



WeaponBoy posted:

I learned the hard way that it's fairly important to capture a regular sectoid as soon as possible. They disappear relatively quickly if (like me) you burn through research to get to titan armor and plasma weapons. Why are sectoids so loving important? Plasma Pistols. There is no way to reverse engineer one of these from light plasma rifles or whatever (which is so dumb), which leaves your snipers user laser pistols and no access to Improved Pistols III. Vital? No, but if you're in a level where you can't leave your snipers hovering half a mile away to squadsight murder everything it helps.

Sectoid Commanders also carry plasma pistols. You see them after you do the alien base. If you do the next quest mission then they disappear and you have to wait for the once-in-a-blue-moon sectoids in a council mission.

(pro tip: If you haven't upgraded your arc throwers, then make sure someone's carrying a regular pistol. Nothing worse than accidentally capping the dude you've been waiting months to capture. )

Sir Shion
Nov 14, 2003

On a never-ending quest.


Anyone else encountered a bug where your soldiers will randomly have no head and aren't customisable?

Sir Shion fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 09:22

ecavalli
Nov 18, 2012


Tithin Melias posted:

Anyone else encountered a bug where your soldiers will randomly have no head and aren't customisable?

I saw that once, but it disappeared when I reloaded the save.

On a vaguely related note, how often do you all find yourselves hiring new soldiers? Obviously you don't want anyone to die, but you need some redundancy within the ranks. I just don't know how much to shoot for.

Eliza
Feb 20, 2011


ecavalli posted:

I saw that once, but it disappeared when I reloaded the save.

On a vaguely related note, how often do you all find yourselves hiring new soldiers? Obviously you don't want anyone to die, but you need some redundancy within the ranks. I just don't know how much to shoot for.

I always try to keep about 10-12 in storage, so I can have two full squads in case things go seriously badly. In the beginning I simply try my hardest not to lose anyone; later it's more a thing of convenience. It depends on whether you have the tools to make a rookie/squaddie survive a shot or two.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



This is incredibly pedantic, but the actual title for this game is XCOM, not X-COM. I clicked this thread expecting a new thread for the classic version, which IS called X-COM. Why they changed it, nobody knows.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012


To be even more pedantic, the hyphen is implied in the negative space. I believe it's actually included on the patent.

Antti
Oct 10, 2006

WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

This is incredibly pedantic, but the actual title for this game is XCOM, not X-COM. I clicked this thread expecting a new thread for the classic version, which IS called X-COM. Why they changed it, nobody knows.

The old game is called X-Com: Ufo Defense or UFO: Enemy Unknown, so even with the hyphen this mixup shouldn't happen if you're in that stage of pedantry where you care about the hyphen.

Not a Step
Feb 25, 2007
My life'd be a whole lot cooler if Vikings invaded every once in a while.

I find that if I'm focusing on building satellites as fast as possible to manage panic and build my council funding I rarely have the spare cash or spare power to build an OTS before mid April. By the time it finishes I can usually hawk enough stuff to buy the first two squad upgrades or just wait a day or two for council funding. It sucks going through two months with a squad of four, but I usually try to fish for two snipers to soak up kills with overwatch traps and two warm bodies to act as scouts/bait. It's brutal, but it gets me through April, and Disabling Shot and Gunslinger shots are great for softening up enemies for the next round of rookies. The Foundry I tend not to get until mid-May, although I've tried to work it in sooner. All of that means Asia is usually the last continent I grab, assuming abduction missions give me the choice.

For me, I tend to start in Africa, then grab whichever of NA or Europe panic forces me into taking first, and only then grabbing Asia. SA I only go for if the stars are aligned and I'm breezing through the game, because generally I lose Brazil or Argentina in the first month. The NA bonus helps me put interceptors on every continent without bankrupting me, but more importantly it means I can build Firestorms later on without breaking the bank. The Europe bonus helps me spam workshops and labs in the mid-game. By the time I can spare the cash and power to get an OTS and Foundry online, the cash situation has stabilized enough to where the Asia bonus is useful but not essential.

Nephilm posted:

What are you trying to say with that line there?

And sure, Asia gives you other benefits but past Month 2 you shouldn't have money troubles so it doesn't matter. If you're getting both an OTS and Foundry early in Month 2 on Impossible I'd question your geoscape strategies, though.

I think he's talking about getting early Iron Will, so you never have to train a new A Team to replace the low will original squad. I generally don't have an issue subbing in two to three rookies per battle though, so long as I play extra careful. And the bonus with having a post Iron Will squad and a pre Iron Will squad is that when one of your A Team guys inevitably gets killed you've got a replacement Major waiting in the wings. Sure he might not have an 80+ will, but as long as he can survive a Muton intimidate check that's good enough. Mind control is generally the least dangerous thing a sectoid/ethereal can do, as it does no damage and gives me another turn to off the alien, because clearly I screwed up the first time by letting it ever take an action.

RBA Starblade posted:

My new sniper to replace the one who died in the supply barge has hit exactly once and has never, even flanking with height bonus, gotten about 50% to hit, ever. My alloy plasma SHIV, however, has missed never. It hits most targets with a aim status of 100. Sorry Mary, you're obsolete.

I now have 2 alloy shivs and 2 hover shivs. As long as my psychic heavy doesn't die, I don't give a poo poo about the others any more. They are superior in every way except I can't trick them out like my soldiers.

I have never deployed a SHIV, so I think I may have to go Robot Commander for my next play through.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Fighting Rikti forever, That's just what Giant Robo CoX do.

Oh man, I was doing so well in my new game, kicking rear end and taking names, gotten all the way past the alien base without even losing a single nation. That jump to Classic isn't as hard as I thought it would be, I guess a bit of experience goes a long way!

...Then when turning the game off, on a hunch I checked the difficulty. Sure enough, I hadn't turned it up from Normal. Eagerly anticipating my entire squad dying in the next mission to punish me for my hubris and arrogance.

EDIT: To make me look like less of an idiot, what does the 'Marathon' Second Wave option do exactly? I like the idea of the game taking a lot longer, my biggest complaint about the first playthrough is that it went way too quickly.

lemonadesweetheart
May 27, 2010



Marthon increases the cost of everything and reduces the speed at which aliens progress.

The Betrayer
Jan 1, 2005



I just picked up the game, and on my second Alien Abduction mission, one of the sectoids got a lucky shot on a rookie and put him at 1 HP.

This caused him to panic and start firing blindly. However, the sight of him panicking sent my Support Corporal into panic mode, who then emptied his magazine into panicking rookie to shut him up.

I love this game already.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Not a Step posted:

I think he's talking about getting early Iron Will, so you never have to train a new A Team to replace the low will original squad. I generally don't have an issue subbing in two to three rookies per battle though, so long as I play extra careful. And the bonus with having a post Iron Will squad and a pre Iron Will squad is that when one of your A Team guys inevitably gets killed you've got a replacement Major waiting in the wings. Sure he might not have an 80+ will, but as long as he can survive a Muton intimidate check that's good enough. Mind control is generally the least dangerous thing a sectoid/ethereal can do, as it does no damage and gives me another turn to off the alien, because clearly I screwed up the first time by letting it ever take an action.

Oh, I guess that's an interpretation that makes sense, but I can't see what it has to do with anything I discussed.

Also, I've found that the NA bonus is actually rather useless by the time Firestorms are ready to roll because your bottleneck for those will be alloys and components, not price and upkeep (the former being heavily mitigated by engineers).

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


quote:

I have never deployed a SHIV, so I think I may have to go Robot Commander for my next play through.

I'm considering doing the temple ship assault with nothing but SHIVs and the Volunteer. They basically never miss, they do loads more damage than my humans, at all times, they have resistant to critical hits, they can one-shot chryssalids and similar at any time, they can fly (if you build hovers), have 18 health, more than most my troops right now (they're still in Skeleton/Carapace, I've spent what little I have on SHIV reinforcements and the firestorm since my crew's been dying off), and further, I have no sniper, my support can't revive anyway, and the volunteer is a heavy. The only downside is they can't take cover, but they have a defense of 30 to account for it. I love my little robot buddies.

My only concern is if I gently caress up charging the final ethereal or the sectopods and get all my SHIVs killed at once because I'm on Ironman, but I think a SHIV army would have a better shot at this point. I have 5 colonels, psi heavy, normal heavy, both in carapace with lasers, two assault, one with a plasma rifle, one with a scatter laser, both skeleton, and a support, in skeleton, with a plasma rifle. They really just don't compare. Taking 4 SHIVs and two heavies might be worth it for the six rockets between them, though.

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 16:47

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005

THAT'S WHAT THE SONG WAS REALLY ABOUT


SHIVs get rockets?!

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

Ambition cannot be stopped.


THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

SHIVs get rockets?!

Um...No? They do not. Not sure why anyone would think they do.

BurningStone
Jun 3, 2011


I just recently started playing this game, and I've developed an unhealthy addiction. Some thoughts about the best starting location....

For comparison purposes, the standard start is a satellite over a $100 country. It seems the standard impossible first month build is a workshop, an uplink, and four satellites.

In the first month, the different starts give you:
North America: +$80
Europe: +$63 (saved on the workshop)
Africa: +$30
Asia: $0
South America: -$20

So far Asia looks pretty bad. The second month things diverge more, but assuming you rush out an OTS:
North America: Possibly another $80 (you may or may not have been able to pick up the US while controlling panic the first month), and some amount saved on buying/maintaining interceptors ($20 for each bought, $10 for each maintained).
Europe: Only $10 (I think) saved on workshop maintenance.
Africa: At least another $145 (5 satellites x $90 average for each country covered)
Asia: $25 + $38 + $100 saved in the OTS (two squad size upgrades and Iron Will) = $163
South America: another -$20

Ok, this is back of the envelope, and your builds will vary, but you can see the argument both for and against Asia. On the plus side, that's a considerable savings, and more savings from the OTS and armory are on their way. On the down side, it doesn't have quite the financial punch of Africa and, a small but important point, money will be a little tighter the first month.

North America is, to me, actually a more interesting argument. That first month $80 is quite a nice bonus at the time, and the savings on interceptors are easy to forget about, but if you hire two per continent, that's $160 on the purchases and $100 maintenance each month.

I love South America's bonus, but I wouldn't want to start there.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

SHIVs get rockets?!

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant four SHIVs and two heavies, for two shredders and four rockets (rocketeer is great).

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


BurningStone posted:

For comparison purposes, the standard start is a satellite over a $100 country. It seems the standard impossible first month build is a workshop, an uplink, and four satellites.

Looks like you're failing to take into account that the continents start with different amounts of starting cash. Asia and Europe start with 165, SA with 145, Africa with 217 I believe and NA starts with 275. This is in Impossible, add 25 for Classic.

BurningStone
Jun 3, 2011


Nephilm posted:

Looks like you're failing to take into account that the continents start with different amounts of starting cash. Asia and Europe start with 165, SA with 145, Africa with 217 I believe and NA starts with 275. This is in Impossible, add 25 for Classic.

I took that into account (that's why I gave North America an extra $80) but if you've got the amounts right, my numbers are a little off. Then North America has a $90 advantage, not $80, and Africa $52, not $30.

Not a Step
Feb 25, 2007
My life'd be a whole lot cooler if Vikings invaded every once in a while.

Nephilm posted:

Oh, I guess that's an interpretation that makes sense, but I can't see what it has to do with anything I discussed.

Also, I've found that the NA bonus is actually rather useless by the time Firestorms are ready to roll because your bottleneck for those will be alloys and components, not price and upkeep (the former being heavily mitigated by engineers).

I believe the Air and Space bonus halves the elerium and alloy cost as well. I know the chokepoint is always going to be power sources and navigation, but saving a bunch of alloys and elerium is always useful, especially early on.

I never have the money or spare power to build an OTS until almost the end of April, and I usually hold off on buying anything but the squad size upgrades until late May at the earliest. I know I'm missing out on some will, but getting satellite coverage up to manage panic is far more important to me.

Also, the SA bonus honestly isn't worth the satellites it takes to get. Early on I'll autopsy a floater for the dodge boost so I can drop a large scout or terror ship, then interrogate a sectoid if I haven't already finished lasers by the time I get a containment up and running. I always grab a muton on the first or second mission they show up in for the plasma boost, but even then I'm usually gated by weapon fragments after I get light plasma rifles. The other alien projects are pretty sub par early on, and by the time I get around to building a foundry I'll have enough scientists and labs to make them one day projects. I've had a lot of success just building four regular uplinks, enough to cover NA, Asia and Europe with Africa as my starting location while leaving SA and the rest of Africa out to dry. In all, SA saves me maybe 10-15 days of research time over the course of the game. My labs will easily spend that long idle while I gather up enough weapon fragments for the next weapon tech, so it gains me nothing.

BurningStone posted:

For comparison purposes, the standard start is a satellite over a $100 country. It seems the standard impossible first month build is a workshop, an uplink, and four satellites.

If you get lucky (second abduction mission before the 17th, and the engineers won't cost you half the world in panic) you can even skip the workshop the first month by taking engineers twice. Also, by letting the first UFO fly off you'll get a second larger one within a day that you should be able to drop with both interceptors. If the game doesn't hate you you'll get more spoils from the larger UFO (and if it does you'll only salvage 1 working flight computer).

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RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Holy poo poo you can use SHIVs as cover?!

e: There goes a SHIV and a Heavy. gently caress muton elites and the inability to get over 63% to hit (or for anyone that isn't a support, 6%, apparently).

e: The hyperwave relay lies to you about the number of enemies? gently caress me.

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 17:47

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