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  • Locked thread
Paingod556
Nov 8, 2011

Not a problem, sir

Iceshade posted:

I can recommend ToolBoks, which seems to work without a hitch (for me, anyway) with the latest version. You can make some cool tweaks.

Very much so. The delay removal for overwatch is nice, as is country limitations. Dropped a few of them, bumped sex ratio to 50/50, added in custom name list... and I've finished the first month with no losses, just one critical casualty (who is now fine) On Classic.

... I'm afraid the game is winding me up for a string of Terror Missions and TPKs. :ohdear:

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Azzip
Oct 22, 2006
Something really profound

40 Proof Listerine posted:

the boost to Will more than makes up for the loss from being gravely wounded

Does the will boost last the entire mission? The text is kinda ambigious on this and the only time I used one I forgot to check.

TemporarySetback
Apr 24, 2010
Third I/I run, only now do I learn that the Combat Drugs skill give your smoke grenades a hidden +20 aim effect along with +10 crit and +20 will it advertises. You can kill anything behind full cover with +20 aim! Actually makes you pause when it's time to choose between Combat Drugs and Dense Smoke.

For a turn based strategy game with clearly defined maps and rules, the entire game is oddly ambiguous in its workings. Flanking, LoS, Explosives randomly not hitting targets in the sphere..

Classic XCOM situation: You're all out of moves except for one heavy with a rocket available, and the one surviving chrysallid is one turn away from eating your face. Crap, you think, one rocket wont kill a chrysallid. But wait, it's sitting right next to a car! Since rockets blow up cars right away, you could hit it with the rocket for 6 damage.. and then the exploding car will finish it off with another 6, right?

No. :geno: It wont. The exploding car won't hurt it at all. Is it a bug? Do units only take damage from one explosion at a time? Hell if anyone knows!

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005

TemporarySetback posted:

Third I/I run, only now do I learn that the Combat Drugs skill give your smoke grenades a hidden +20 aim effect along with +10 crit and +20 will it advertises. You can kill anything behind full cover with +20 aim! Actually makes you pause when it's time to choose between Combat Drugs and Dense Smoke.

For a turn based strategy game with clearly defined maps and rules, the entire game is oddly ambiguous in its workings. Flanking, LoS, Explosives randomly not hitting targets in the sphere..

Classic XCOM situation: You're all out of moves except for one heavy with a rocket available, and the one surviving chrysallid is one turn away from eating your face. Crap, you think, one rocket wont kill a chrysallid. But wait, it's sitting right next to a car! Since rockets blow up cars right away, you could hit it with the rocket for 6 damage.. and then the exploding car will finish it off with another 6, right?

No. :geno: It wont. The exploding car won't hurt it at all. Is it a bug? Do units only take damage from one explosion at a time? Hell if anyone knows!

Man nothing in this game is documented properly it feels like. I like it a lot but seriously tactics games usually have really strictly defined rules and in XCOM they sometimes just don't work.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Cleretic posted:

Doing this. I'm starting with 22 soldiers and almost every country in the blue on panic. I will post again when I've reached critical Oh gently caress levels. I'm even going against myself and not going to reload until I've either won (no chance) or died horribly.

EDIT: Well, this is gonna suck.



This was against a small scout ship. Two Sectoid Commanders and two Mutons did this. Vandal survived with a single hit point.

I failed literally every mission. This picture was the only time anyone survived.

The second mission was a terror mission in Japan. It failed so badly Japan immediately dropped out. Every single failure led to Asia gradually getting worse. There as an abduction mission that gave me a choice to go to Australia, but it decided to send me to the UK instead. Not that it helped anyway because I still failed.

I decided to call it when Asia was all at max panic. The council report only had China drop out, not sure why.

Wasse
Jan 16, 2010
Have there been any updates on additional DLC for the game?

I've done two runs at this point (a casual.. yeah, that was stupid, and a classic). And was thinking about doing another one soon - but if DLC is coming out sooner than later, I figure I might as well wait.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Wasse posted:

Have there been any updates on additional DLC for the game?

I've done two runs at this point (a casual.. yeah, that was stupid, and a classic). And was thinking about doing another one soon - but if DLC is coming out sooner than later, I figure I might as well wait.

Solomon's said they're working on it, and it's not like Slingshot (presumably it's a larger story arc, or a new major mechanic). We have no other details.

Iceshade
Sep 15, 2007
Tactical Ignorance

Coolguye posted:

Solomon's said they're working on it, and it's not like Slingshot (presumably it's a larger story arc, or a new major mechanic). We have no other details.

It better not be like slingshot. Solomon even admitted it wasn't what the fans wanted (I can only assume that the publisher had this wonderful idea of what Slingshot was going to be, and the devs just had to go along with it).

Klyith posted:

The UPK package files that the game uses are only compressed, not encrypted or protected. The UDK is free to download. That's about as moddable as an Unreal Engine gets. If you are expecting mod tools along the likes of Bethesda games, you're going to be disappointed.

As for the mod tools .. Are we going to be stuck with the .upk files and doing minor tweaks forever? Did they say they won't ever bring out proper mod tools for X-COM? Or do they just give a vague answer like "We're thinking about it" which basically means "Never, nope, no way."?

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
Wait, the funky smoke ability doesn't suck? Next thing you know they'll tell me that Flush gives a 20 aim bonus to anyone else targetting the guy and that Dense Smoke only gives you an extra 5 defense in practice. Also, the extra 20 aim will just make a muton elite seem like any other enemy instead of an extra hard to hit one. I think that's what annoys me about handling them really, not the HP. I think a 4 HP enemy with 80 defense would be worse than a muton berserker with 32 health.

If you bump the difficulty up to Impossible I don't think more enemies spawn for some reason, nor would your game count as an Impossible run for the sake of achievements. Impossible is a triple whammy of harder geoscape, more enemies, and just plain more badass enemies than all other difficulties. And once you've played enough rounds to be able to basically predict most spawns, you do kinda need a challenge, which Impossible does hand out in spades.

peak debt
Mar 11, 2001
b& :(
Nap Ghost

Iceshade posted:

As for the mod tools .. Are we going to be stuck with the .upk files and doing minor tweaks forever? Did they say they won't ever bring out proper mod tools for X-COM? Or do they just give a vague answer like "We're thinking about it" which basically means "Never, nope, no way."?

The sectoids are already nude so I don't see what a Bethesda-like modding ability would bring to the game :confused:

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Iceshade posted:

It better not be like slingshot. Solomon even admitted it wasn't what the fans wanted (I can only assume that the publisher had this wonderful idea of what Slingshot was going to be, and the devs just had to go along with it).

To be fair, it isn't like there's really a AAA DLC model for this kind of game. The only other DLC Firaxis have really done were unpopular Map-packs for Civ, which is ironic because that's exactly what everyone wants now.

FairGame
Jul 24, 2001

Der Kommander

Jesus christ, gently caress that train mission in Slingshot.

Only the DLC guy and my sniper survived.

Iceshade
Sep 15, 2007
Tactical Ignorance

Alchenar posted:

To be fair, it isn't like there's really a AAA DLC model for this kind of game. The only other DLC Firaxis have really done were unpopular Map-packs for Civ, which is ironic because that's exactly what everyone wants now.

Well, as they were avid UFO:EU fans they probably could have guessed that replayability would pretty much trump everything else. Especially when there are still creatures from the original missing that could be implemented, different types of missions, more variety in maps (okay okay, that's not a feature in the original), etc. You didn't play UFO:EU for the "story". But I digress.

Speaking of maps, didn't Firaxis say there are around 100 maps in the game, each with rotating/random spawn points (unless they never actually said that)? There only seems to be one spawn position for the player units.

Edgecase
Dec 7, 2009
Oh, a new OP. I'm late to the party. :downs:

Since the multiplayer section is kinda bare, I will shamelessly plug my how-to-get-started-in-multiplayer video featuring "XCOM is buggy so turn off your stupid microphone". Also, how not to make the host wait for you while you use the matchmaking lobby to read all the pricing and abilities, and how to make 6 clone troopers that will carry you to victory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq_WfXnOTy8

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Iceshade posted:

Speaking of maps, didn't Firaxis say there are around 100 maps in the game, each with rotating/random spawn points (unless they never actually said that)? There only seems to be one spawn position for the player units.
There are multiple spawn points for players on a lot of different maps, but sometimes there's only one for a specific mission type. Bomb missions, for example, don't have any alternate layouts to my understanding.

There was a brief analysis of this in the last thread, and as nearly as anyone can reasonably tell the 100 maps figure is basically the number of static maps * the number of spawn points. Which makes it TECHNICALLY true but not really honest in a lot of peoples' estimation.

I say 'can reasonably tell' because nobody really has an official word on it, people were just trying to justify that number with what we know exists and that's the figure that got closest.

quote:

Since the multiplayer section is kinda bare, I will shamelessly plug my how-to-get-started-in-multiplayer video featuring "XCOM is buggy so turn off your stupid microphone". Also, how not to make the host wait for you while you use the matchmaking lobby to read all the pricing and abilities, and how to make 6 clone troopers that will carry you to victory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq_WfXnOTy8
Good stuff, thanks.

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta

Multiplayer is buggy as hell, but it still has some situations that can't be compared. Kool-aid manning 4 berserkers right into the middle of the enemy squad that your sniper has been spying on the whole time is still painfully funny.

ChronoReverse
Oct 1, 2009
I've been playing Classic Marathon mode to see what it's like and it really does make the game easier rather than harder.

At first it's crazy because you can't even get a single satellite up in the first month but then you start getting so many goodies (I've sold a ton of Alien Alloys and Elerium) that it's not so bad by the second month.

The OTS really pays off because having extra squad members early is more useful than trying for Beam Weapons or Armor since you'll be facing Thin Men and Sectoids for a long time. I'm running two Heavies and two Snipers, going willy-nilly with the explosives because I'll be killing more Sectoids in a couple days so I might as well play it safe.

Did the Alien Base in June and now that I'm starting to roll out Plasma, it's really rather easy since Mutons _just_ showed up. I'll probably just finish researching the Firestorm and then try to finish the game whenever I find a Psychic (I have More Than Human enabled so it's going to take a while).


It's interesting to be making most of my money via selling instead of satellites (I don't even have half coverage of the globe yet). Feels a lot more like the old X-Com in that sense.

Zellyn
Sep 27, 2000

The way he truly is.

Azzip posted:

Does the will boost last the entire mission? The text is kinda ambigious on this and the only time I used one I forgot to check.

It's two turns, not including the turn where you use it, so maybe it counts as three.

Honestly, the cover system is probably the worst part of this game because sometimes it's just dumb/doesn't work/doesn't make any loving sense. I had two guys on one side of a door and when I opened it a Berserker and Muton were right there. The berserker charges in the door so I get a CC proc and a Headshot crit to take him down. The Muton has taken cover on the other side of the door. I have my Major Assault just walk outside so she's on the same side as the Muton:

code:
X_M   X = Assault   0 = Assault before move
0BY   M = Muton
      S = Sniper
 S    Y = Other dude
      B = Berseker (corpse)
The assault has an alloy cannon and takes aim...45%. What? How the gently caress does he still have heavy cover? So I Run and Gun, put her behind the Muton and do a 98% chance Rapid Fire just in case.

All in all it makes me wish there was a set of rules that got rid of cover as such an absolute. Seriously, ask yourself if you ever, ever move your unit into an area without cover when you aren't absolutely sure there's nothing around (archangel snipers don't count; they get half cover anyway).

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005

WeaponBoy posted:

It's two turns, not including the turn where you use it, so maybe it counts as three.

Honestly, the cover system is probably the worst part of this game because sometimes it's just dumb/doesn't work/doesn't make any loving sense. I had two guys on one side of a door and when I opened it a Berserker and Muton were right there. The berserker charges in the door so I get a CC proc and a Headshot crit to take him down. The Muton has taken cover on the other side of the door. I have my Major Assault just walk outside so she's on the same side as the Muton:

code:
X_M   X = Assault   0 = Assault before move
0BY   M = Muton
      S = Sniper
 S    Y = Other dude
      B = Berseker (corpse)
The assault has an alloy cannon and takes aim...45%. What? How the gently caress does he still have heavy cover? So I Run and Gun, put her behind the Muton and do a 98% chance Rapid Fire just in case.

All in all it makes me wish there was a set of rules that got rid of cover as such an absolute. Seriously, ask yourself if you ever, ever move your unit into an area without cover when you aren't absolutely sure there's nothing around (archangel snipers don't count; they get half cover anyway).

Again, for a tactics game this has a shocking lack of sticking to the rules. It's kind of why I don't want to play Ironman, because sometimes I honestly feel like the game made the mistakes, not me.

Zylen
Mar 25, 2005

The third time, the exception becomes the rule

The cover system makes sense, you just happened to come across the flank bug that seems to be more common since the last patch, particularly when doors are involved it seems. Otherwise that would normally be a flank shot.

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

Again, for a tactics game this has a shocking lack of sticking to the rules. It's kind of why I don't want to play Ironman, because sometimes I honestly feel like the game made the mistakes, not me.

Baby.

Zylen fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jan 21, 2013

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Gave multiplayer a shot in a custom game for the first time, it seems barely functional. Overwatch doesn't seem to work (based on my chryssalid surviving walking into an overwatch trap with no one shooting), flying is hosed, I had no control over my drone, and my floaters would get stuck in the level, and it would move units to places I didn't tell them to go, or stop acknowledging my input. I won both games I tried with 2 chryssalids, 2 thin men, a drone, and 2 chryssalids and 3 floaters, but is it always this problematic?

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

Again, for a tactics game this has a shocking lack of sticking to the rules. It's kind of why I don't want to play Ironman, because sometimes I honestly feel like the game made the mistakes, not me.
There are pretty solid rules, it just so happens there are also bugs that obfuscate those rules.

The only reason it's weird is because with most games, either they err on the side of absolute consistency at the cost of interactivity - and you feel like you're moving action figures around a grid - or they go more for unpredictable cover with less numerical consistency (Silent Storm is a great example of this). X-Com tries to find a middle ground, because novice players almost never do well with Silent Storm-esque intuiting of smart positioning.

... anyways, the Iron Man run is still doable, mostly because the mistakes made will be on both sides. For every "why can't I make that shot? HE IS NOT IN COVER!" error against you, you'll have a dude snap-shot through a solid wall and catch some poor muton with a crit that was just repositioning in cover.

Edgecase
Dec 7, 2009

RBA Starblade posted:

Gave multiplayer a shot in a custom game for the first time, it seems barely functional. Overwatch doesn't seem to work (based on my chryssalid surviving walking into an overwatch trap with no one shooting), flying is hosed, I had no control over my drone, and my floaters would get stuck in the level, and it would move units to places I didn't tell them to go, or stop acknowledging my input. I won both games I tried with 2 chryssalids, 2 thin men, a drone, and 2 chryssalids and 3 floaters, but is it always this problematic?

Flying is definitely messed up with the keyboard and mouse interface, plus on one map in particular (Grand Cemetery), the 2nd floor walls of the middle building only pseudo-exist. Overwatch, however, should work normally. Are you sure the other player actually set up Overwatch and wasn't :downsgun: ?

Edgecase fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jan 21, 2013

ChronoReverse
Oct 1, 2009
I've run into a weird bug several times where I get to watch aliens reposition in the Fog of War. I was confused at first because I didn't remember activating them and then when I actually revealed them, they got their Free Get Into Cover move.

The interesting thing is that the Aliens do not appear to teleport anymore but actually run into a different position.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Edgecase posted:

Flying is definitely messed up with the keyboard and mouse interface, plus on one map in particular (Grand Cemetery), the 2nd floor walls of the middle building only pseudo-exist. Overwatch, however, should work normally. Are you sure the other player actually set up Overwatch and wasn't :downsgun: ?

He pressed 'Y', mistaking it for the talk button, so yeah. I was also able to see him in fog of war at one point, for a second.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
The easiest way to envision cover is to envision it like a two-dimensional plane. If someone's taking cover behind a wall, and has high cover, you can mentally stretch that wall over the entire map. If you're on the same side of that wall as the alien, you're flanking him. If you're on the opposite side, he's got cover. It doesn't matter if your displacement on the other axis is 2 squares or 20; he's got cover. If this doesn't make sense let me know and I'll MSPaint up a model.

I really have had very few complaints about the cover system. Bugs aside, it's pretty coherent, is designed well, and makes the battlescape feel more like a tactical engagement.

Edgecase
Dec 7, 2009

RBA Starblade posted:

He pressed 'Y', mistaking it for the talk button, so yeah. I was also able to see him in fog of war at one point, for a second.

Never seen overwatch completely fail in the way you seem to be describing, though I have seen the permavision bug. It usually happens when a unit in the fog of war gets an overwatch kill shot at the same time it's spotted. The "hide the unit again" function seems to fail.

Operant
Apr 1, 2010

LET THERE BE NO GENESIS
Ironman is an exercise in frustration but you will never feel better beating a videogame ever.

You can one day be in gravy street with your base, full squad of teched out colonels, and the next thing you know some bullshit battleship mission you lose your sniper to an elite firing from the fog of war, your 90% shot misses, and your veteran colonel panics and shoots his buddy in the head.

And you can't do jack poo poo.

Iceshade
Sep 15, 2007
Tactical Ignorance

Operant posted:

Ironman is an exercise in frustration but you will never feel better beating a videogame ever.

You can one day be in gravy street with your base, full squad of teched out colonels, and the next thing you know some bullshit battleship mission you lose your sniper to an elite firing from the fog of war, your 90% shot misses, and your veteran colonel panics and shoots his buddy in the head.

And you can't do jack poo poo.


See, I'm okay with that. The FoW might be a bit bullshitty.

But I don't play ironman because of teleporting aliens. Muton decides to go for a stroll. He teleports on the flank of my squad, and overwatch doesn't trigger. He now proceeds to critically rape my colonel. Yeah, no.

Also when the controls glitch and decides to move my Rocket Launcher one pixel to the left, from 90% to 0% blocked. Bye squad.

And when the game says/creates the illusion of where I'm moving to has cover, while it is actually one tile behind! And now my guy is stuck in the open, ready to get blasted. Hooray.

ChronoReverse
Oct 1, 2009

Iceshade posted:

Also when the controls glitch and decides to move my Rocket Launcher one pixel to the left, from 90% to 0% blocked. Bye squad.

I avoid this one by positioning the rocket, letting go of the mouse, and then when it's stable for a second, pressing spacebar to fire.

(And then I get "Rocket Off Course")

Zellyn
Sep 27, 2000

The way he truly is.

Zylen posted:

The cover system makes sense, you just happened to come across the flank bug that seems to be more common since the last patch, particularly when doors are involved it seems. Otherwise that would normally be a flank shot.


Baby.

To be honest, I just think the cover system is kind of dumb at times. Part of that is just that I really don't like the way a lot of combat systems use a zero sum equation for determining damage because they breakdown in a lot of situations, especially once you get higher level characters. This isn't exclusive to XCOM as you can see it in places like D&D where rolling a 19 hits, but rolling an 18 whiffs.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

WeaponBoy posted:

This isn't exclusive to XCOM as you can see it in places like D&D where rolling a 19 hits, but rolling an 18 whiffs.
To be fair if you're still rolling to hit something with a weapon at high levels in D&D 3.5 or lower you're really just going through the motions until the mage gets off his rear end and uses the power of the cosmos to vaporize everything in a 10 foot radius (save for half damage and only die instead of gib).

Edgecase
Dec 7, 2009

WeaponBoy posted:

To be honest, I just think the cover system is kind of dumb at times. Part of that is just that I really don't like the way a lot of combat systems use a zero sum equation for determining damage because they breakdown in a lot of situations, especially once you get higher level characters. This isn't exclusive to XCOM as you can see it in places like D&D where rolling a 19 hits, but rolling an 18 whiffs.

XCOM is actually a 3-outcome system (miss, hit, crit), it's just communicated to the player as two "separate" considerations. Further sub-variation in damage is determined by damage ranges.

Firing a laser rifle at a unit will do one of: miss, hit for 4, hit for 5, hit for 6, crit for 7, crit for 8, crit for 9. Exactly how much more representation do you want for the range of possible outcomes?

Iceshade
Sep 15, 2007
Tactical Ignorance
FYI:

ToolBoks 0.80 has been released.
http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/79

quote:

19/01/13 - v0.80
- Mods added:
* Alien Abductions in Nations with Satellite Coverage
* Psi Probability
* Action Cam for Missed Shots
* Action Cam for Every Dash
* Hunker-Down Fix (Custom Mod)
- Added tooltip descriptions
- Minor bug fixes

GenVec
Mar 17, 2010
I'd like to know whether anyone has been able to finish a campaign playing under Classic / Ironman with both Marathon and Diminishing returns turned on. I've beaten Classic twice now, but racing to complete satellites that cost up to 2k and require 68 engineers to build (not to mention a month for each uplink) is beyond brutal. I haven't lost a mission yet, but even so it seems like I'm going to lose my eighth country even with a beeline for the "high ground".

ChronoReverse
Oct 1, 2009

GenVec posted:

I'd like to know whether anyone has been able to finish a campaign playing under Classic / Ironman with both Marathon and Diminishing returns turned on. I've beaten Classic twice now, but racing to complete satellites that cost up to 2k and require 68 engineers to build (not to mention a month for each uplink) is beyond brutal. I haven't lost a mission yet, but even so it seems like I'm going to lose my eighth country even with a beeline for the "high ground".

I don't have Diminishing Returns enabled (More Than Human Marathon Classic) but I have precisely three satellites flying right now (Japan, Brazil, Argentina) and none on the way for at least another month.

But I'm rolling out Plasma, done the Alien Base, doing the research for the Firestorm (before I do the Hyperwave to shoot down the Overseer) and I've been getting so many missions that panic is low anyway (I have lost three countries though).

I'm thinking that it might not even be necessary to have complete satellite coverage to finish the game at this rate (most of my money is made by selling the huge stocks of Elerium and Alien Alloys).

Zellyn
Sep 27, 2000

The way he truly is.

Edgecase posted:

XCOM is actually a 3-outcome system (miss, hit, crit), it's just communicated to the player as two "separate" considerations. Further sub-variation in damage is determined by damage ranges.

Firing a laser rifle at a unit will do one of: miss, hit for 4, hit for 5, hit for 6, crit for 7, crit for 8, crit for 9. Exactly how much more representation do you want for the range of possible outcomes?

I'd prefer a higher probability of hitting aliens (and a higher chance of getting hit by aliens) but with lower amounts of damage. I'd be totally ok with the enemy defense that muton elites and ethereals have meaning -X damage so shooting them with a basic pistol is pretty much never going to do damage unless you crit. So, I guess, something like this:

Current:
Plasma Rifle vs. Muton Elite with low cover:
35% chance to hit (85% hit - 20% cover - 30% enemy defense).
Up to 8 damage.
Miss and do nothing.
Hit and do 6-8 damage.

Magical fairy land:
Plasma Rifle vs. Muton Elite with low cover:
65% chance to hit (85% hit - 20% cover).
Up to 8 damage.
Miss and do nothing.
Hit and do 3-5 damage (6-8 damage - 3 from heavy armor)

As it is now I've basically accepted that my entire offensive strategy is based around my one or two colonel snipers basically killing loving everything while anyone below Major rank can't hit the broadside of a bus.

I can't count the number of times I've seen an enemy sort of shrug as the shot particles actually hit the dude but it's called a miss anyway. That's purely visual, but god drat.

peak debt
Mar 11, 2001
b& :(
Nap Ghost

WeaponBoy posted:

I'd prefer a higher probability of hitting aliens (and a higher chance of getting hit by aliens) but with lower amounts of damage. I'd be totally ok with the enemy defense that muton elites and ethereals have meaning -X damage so shooting them with a basic pistol is pretty much never going to do damage unless you crit. So, I guess, something like this:

That would make the resulting game not X-COM anymore. Instead everybody would just tank shots to be healed up again like it was Final Fantasy.

Anyway, imagine the defense bonus like armor class in D&D. Muton Elites don't have one because they're so hard to hit, but because they're wearing such strong armor that half the shots you lob at them don't do any damage.

Zellyn
Sep 27, 2000

The way he truly is.

peak debt posted:

That would make the resulting game not X-COM anymore. Instead everybody would just tank shots to be healed up again like it was Final Fantasy.

Anyway, imagine the defense bonus like armor class in D&D. Muton Elites don't have one because they're so hard to hit, but because they're wearing such strong armor that half the shots you lob at them don't do any damage.

Oh, absolutely it wouldn't be XCOM. My point sort of spun out of control. Really, I just hate RNG seeded zero sum game design. That's what makes the difference between something like Demon's Souls and XCOM for me. In DS you're getting pounded but it's always your own fault if you die. In XCOM there's a certain point where you're not doing anything wrong but you still get hosed over and that's an essential part of the experience, but it's not what I consider good game design.

I love both games, but when I win in DS I feel elation; when I win in XCOM I just feel exhausted because I spend so much of the mission muttering under by breath about loving thin men and muton elites and goddamn bullshit gently caress rear end. There's a reason why it took nearly two decades for a new XCOM to be made.

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Edgecase
Dec 7, 2009

WeaponBoy posted:

Current:
Plasma Rifle vs. Muton Elite with low cover:
35% chance to hit (85% hit - 20% cover - 30% enemy defense).
Up to 8 damage.
Miss and do nothing.
Hit and do 6-8 damage.

Magical fairy land:
Plasma Rifle vs. Muton Elite with low cover:
65% chance to hit (85% hit - 20% cover).
Up to 8 damage.
Miss and do nothing.
Hit and do 3-5 damage (6-8 damage - 3 from heavy armor)

As it is now I've basically accepted that my entire offensive strategy is based around my one or two colonel snipers basically killing loving everything while anyone below Major rank can't hit the broadside of a bus.

Not to be a jerk, but if the goal is to make it so snipers aren't the only painbringers, static damage reduction would make the situation worse, not better. -3 damage is a proportionally bigger hit to the effectiveness of a "7 damage" weapon than a "9 damage" weapon (it makes them do 4 vs. 6 damage on average, respectively). So, you'd get more hits, but for punier and punier amounts of damage, with an even larger proportional bonus from the +dmg on Headshot. Counterintuivitely, this would make snipers (and alloy assaults) even more preferred than before.

Edit: I get what you're saying, though. High stakes coin-flipping is a bitch and can make you feel really ripped-off. I know I feel that way all the time. :xcom:

Edgecase fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 21, 2013

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