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I don't know if it's just me, but it seemed like the base defense mission came waaaaay too early in LW. I have no mechs or genetically enhanced troops, and my first attempt saddled me with all my unequipped mans. I don't know what I got myself into.
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Oct 25, 2014 01:52
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redpleb posted:I don't know if it's just me, but it seemed like the base defense mission came waaaaay too early in LW. I have no mechs or genetically enhanced troops, and my first attempt saddled me with all my unequipped mans. I don't know what I got myself into. Did you get a prompt to equip your top soldiers? Did you have a satellite above your home country?
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Oct 25, 2014 01:53
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Orgophlax posted:EDIT: Watching the Beagle's archive from last night, and before he even starts you could tell something was bothering him. I'd just walk away for a bit after that rocket misfire too. Watching now, he's not a happy chap.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:25
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Scapegoat posted:Watching now, he's not a happy chap. Watching now too... I'll be honest I've never had an awkward silence just by watching an internet video. Holy God. It gets worse. I want to send him a care package or something.
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Oct 25, 2014 03:32
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Welp just triggered 12 seekers on a troop transport mission upon opening the door from the cockpit to the main area. First one strangled a trooper and I thought "Hey maybe Beagle just ran into some lovely luck." Managed to take it and 2 others down with overwatch. Of the remaining 9, 6 of them all decloaked and focused my Medic to kill her, the other 3 went on "Hidden Overwatch," As I found out as my Sniper rushed to stablize her. gently caress seekers. 
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Oct 25, 2014 07:37
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Long War keeps crashing on me while loading the first mission. Is there something I need to do to fix this? Or am I just screwed? EDIT: Never mind, the problem appears to be that XCOM hadn't patched itself yet after the initial download. Tarezax fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 13:09
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OxySnake posted:gently caress seekers. They seem to be on a mission to make every alien dangerous in their own way. Seekers were almost a relief to fight previously - the worst they could do was tie up a guy for a turn, and often just threw themselves into a wall of overwatch fire. Now they're Stealth Bastard Mega-drones.
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Oct 25, 2014 13:14
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Like ICR said, they did a really really good job of making everything the Huggernaut does feel brutal as hell.
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Oct 25, 2014 14:19
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Decloaking and shooting in the same turn is basically cheating. Although I can also find out where they are by moving my cursor around if they're within my movement range, uh, shut up!
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Oct 25, 2014 15:56
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Dominic White posted:Now they're Stealth Bastard Mega-drones. The AI forgoing a unit's original intended gimmick in order to make the most optimal play isn't always the best idea.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:17
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Trilin posted:The AI forgoing a unit's original intended gimmick in order to make the most optimal play isn't always the best idea. I agree with this. There was a good reason why the EW devs didn't allow them to do that; it wasn't a simple oversight. The solution should be to make their primary attack more damaging and make them harder to kill with overwatch. Maybe give them lighting reflexes and stuff...
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Oct 25, 2014 16:27
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Can the player still shoot while cloaked with mimetic skin/ghost armor in LW? EDIT: Also, battlescanner will take down their stealth.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:33
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Remember that battlescanners decloak Seekers in the radius. I don't know if it still interrupts their turn if they move into it and get decloaked, but scanners are still very important to have, and there is no shortage of perks to let you take more than one of them.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:37
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Even if you can scan them, it still becomes just a race to burn them down. They've essentially just become a psuedo-melee unit with the sole task of bumrushing someone so they can bop them on the head with plasma. You either kill them before they reach you, or someone dies to unavoidable focused fire. I think that there are many directions someone can take to improving the Seeker as a unit. Turning them into suicidal stealth floaters doesn't sound like the right choice.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:50
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Trilin posted:Even if you can scan them, it still becomes just a race to burn them down. They've essentially just become a psuedo-melee unit with the sole task of bumrushing someone so they can bop them on the head with plasma. You either kill them before they reach you, or someone dies to unavoidable focused fire. The seeker needs a backup attack if you neutralize their strangle with the scanner. If you make them not rush the player, then they're just different looking floaters.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:59
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I've always felt that Seekers used to fill a small niche, but when when it came up they filled it well. They were the stealth unit that tilted any engagement with very deadly aliens heavily onto the alien side. On their own, no they aren't frightening, just circle up overwatch and wait for the kill count to pile up. But, in a prolonged fight against any ranged unit (sans terrible AI floaters) suddenly having a seeker grab a person when you had few people on overwatch, and perhaps even fewer with ammunition became a huge headache, and depending on who you prioritized could deal a significant amount of damage if you didn't detach them right away. If those units were melee based, like lids or berserkers, having one strangle a soldier within smack down range of the melee unit was crippling and presented a really tactical challenge as there was a good chance that soldier was going to die. Now they just seem cheap. If you activate a pod of 4+, and the one seeker that doesn't cloak doesn't give away the position of the rest of them, you have to overwatch, if your lucky kill 2 of them with overwatch fire, then watch as a soldier eats 3x+ damage from flanked plasma fire.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:02
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Yeah, as much as a lot of the new stuff in B14 is really streamlined and neat (especially the incredible new mission landing variety) I'm not liking a lot of the more extreme 'balance' changes. Between bullrushing berserkers, trigger-happy seekers, and changes starting/troop bonuses, I'm not really sure this actually is the improvement I was hoping for. Maybe I'm just being too critical.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:16
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OxySnake posted:I've always felt that Seekers used to fill a small niche, but when when it came up they filled it well. Again, throw out a battlescanner and eliminate their stealth.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:20
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Orgophlax posted:Again, throw out a battlescanner and eliminate their stealth. Battlescanners have limited range. Beagle tried exactly this and since he misguessed where they'd be, they gangbanged Mikey his sniper with decloaking crits. The solution isn't as simple as "carry scanner, neutralize stealth".
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Oct 25, 2014 19:29
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That doesn't seem to be effective any more, as they don't seem to cluster up anymore (so the one hint to their location - the one seeker that didn't cloak - doesn't work), and dropping the scanner on your own troops defensively won't change anything 'cause the seekers will just charge in and fire off flanking crits anyways. So now they're just floaters with a cloak gimmick instead of a teleport gimmick.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:32
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I feel like instead of making Seekers horrible monsters they should just change it so there are never Just Seeker pods. They're always the most dangerous when paired with others, why not make that the case? Like a standard pod is two Seekers and two Sectoids, or something. Or two Seekers and two Thin Me- nevermind I never said that
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Oct 25, 2014 19:34
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Orgophlax posted:Again, throw out a battlescanner and eliminate their stealth. While this is a solution it's not an end all to their poo poo. If you throw a scanner and misplace it such as Beagle's last stream, your SOL. If you throw it and can't take them down on your turn, you are going to be relying on overwatch fire, that is going to be focused on 1-2 of them. If you don't have a battlescanner you have to rely on overwatch. While it is a solution with their ridiculous movement it still feels cheap that you can be eating that much flank fire without a great work around. B13 Seekers where stupidly easy to deal with in most cases. I just feel this is a case where the devs saw they were too weak and gave them a buff, which definitely made them more deadly, but not in line with what their intended purpose was. I'd say bring them back to their original style of play, give the leader lightening reflexes, and maybe have them in pods with berserkers or lids not just with thin men, sectoids, and themselves. This would make them much more dangerous, and not as cheesy as they feel now.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:39
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Make floaters able to fire after teleporting imo
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Oct 25, 2014 19:42
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Control Volume posted:Make floaters able to fire after teleporting imo They've already done this, they just renamed them seekers.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:44
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Control Volume posted:Make floaters able to fire after teleporting imo I think I heard at end game, they have a perk where they can overwatch after teleporting.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:46
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Strange question. Trying to download the customizable special soldiers mod from the Nexus http://www.nexusmods.com/xcom/mods/87/ but I keep getting connection errors and it just takes me to a blank page and does not download. I don't suppose anyone has a mirror of it?
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Oct 25, 2014 19:59
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Cat Army 
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Yeah, I have to second what people are already saying: It's not just that seekers are too strong, it's that they were designed as a niche exploitation enemy and now they're basically becoming more like invisible floaters, and straying from their original (and totally valid) tactical purpose. Personally, I never thought they were too weak, just because they would often wander into an engagement while I was fighting mutons and suddenly I'd have to play triage or retreat. At the very least a single seeker can generally take out 25% of your active units for one combat turn -- one strangled who'll also be in no shape to reposition and at least one to shoot him off -- and that's nothing to scoff at if you already need every bullet. They weren't the same as running into a Muton Elite or something, obviously, but they were tactically dangerous and could quickly go from nuisance to gamechanger. Battlescanners were never fully reliable. If you didn't have the one outlier that remained uncloaked or you guessed wrong or they split up, a missed battlescanner was likely and significant. And battlescanners are less reliable now than ever with the new AI changes. Plus, this thread's advice is chock-full of "x isn't hard, just bring y". Now, that's valid in that lots of small items offer a tactical advantage or even direct counter to certain things, though some are more reliable than others. A diverse equipment setup is required if you want to be ready for anything. But there's only so far that can go. At various points people have said rocketeers aren't weak because they can bring so many rockets, but people also say scatter isn't a big deal because each rocketeer should have a scope. Acid's not bad because everyone can bring medkits, plasma is best when you bring that +1 damage item, assaults should always have walker servos, never use shotguns without breach ammo, chitin plating is important and everyone should have it so small arms fire isn't such a big deal, gunners are great and should always carry the overwatch-boosting item, everything can be solved with grenades, berserkers are super easy to deal with as long as you have a few flashbangs/chems, and seekers are super easy to deal with as long as you always have some battlescanners on hand. So all the "it's not unbalanced, you just need this item to counter it" responses would be fine, if each soldier had about 6 small item slots and no weight penalty.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:03
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I tried Hit & Run on a flying enemy and it didn't actually work - nevermind what I was saying earlier about it. Does not work against flying enemies. Really limits its usefulness compared to Close Encounters and In The Zone.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:32
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MrBims posted:Rocketeers are suppressors for me, in both 13 and 14*, so they're always going to contribute even when they aren't in a good position to use rockets. So the idea is that I luck into having a high aim rookie promoted into a rocketeer instead of any of the other classes? I am all for selecting for strengths but only so much is within your own power.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:35
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Voluspa posted:So the idea is that I luck into having a high aim rookie promoted into a rocketeer instead of any of the other classes? You have options - if you don't like the choice of class you get you can opt for random assignment, which is something I often do with high aim Supports. Benching and buying another soldier is unfortunately much more expensive now and is something I think the devs should revert or find a middle ground on, but it is still a possibility. You can also turn them into Mecs, now or after they've gotten some experience, for a stat reassignment in that class. I haven't tested it yet, but the patchnotes say they reverted Mec stats to being statically based on the chosen class rather than rerolled, so that actually makes the RNG less of a barracks-fucker in beta 14. MrBims fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 20:44
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On the whole Seeker debate...you know, have they really changed that much in b14? I was terrified after watching Beagle's stream, but I had a ton of them strangle me yesterday and only like two straight shots.
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Oct 25, 2014 21:18
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Vib Rib posted:Plus, this thread's advice is chock-full of "x isn't hard, just bring y". Now, that's valid in that lots of small items offer a tactical advantage or even direct counter to certain things, though some are more reliable than others. A diverse equipment setup is required if you want to be ready for anything. But there's only so far that can go. At various points people have said rocketeers aren't weak because they can bring so many rockets, but people also say scatter isn't a big deal because each rocketeer should have a scope. Acid's not bad because everyone can bring medkits, plasma is best when you bring that +1 damage item, assaults should always have walker servos, never use shotguns without breach ammo, chitin plating is important and everyone should have it so small arms fire isn't such a big deal, gunners are great and should always carry the overwatch-boosting item, everything can be solved with grenades, berserkers are super easy to deal with as long as you have a few flashbangs/chems, and seekers are super easy to deal with as long as you always have some battlescanners on hand. Except half the poo poo you list here is lategame stuff, which which point you should have free battlescanners from perks, or indeed genemods, and be closing on the 3 small items project. And none of it needs to be on all your soldiers. Then about a third of it is optional/playstyle stuff. It's not difficult to bring a bunch of useful utility items on any given missions which may only be useful sometimes but are very useful when they are, or you can load more offensive or defensive items which are useful all the time but not especially useful at any given point. You choose.
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Oct 25, 2014 21:31
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Vib Rib posted:Yeah, I have to second what people are already saying: It's not just that seekers are too strong, it's that they were designed as a niche exploitation enemy and now they're basically becoming more like invisible floaters, and straying from their original (and totally valid) tactical purpose. There's something to this. Maybe their weapon damage progression should be nerfed a bit to counteract their increased access to flank shots. However, I'm 8 months into b14 and I am not having any problems with Seekers. I hate to sound like a broken record, but HEAT rockets and Battle scanners are easy to take on every squad, every time, and are plenty useful even if there are no Seekers in the mission. Seekers do scatter more on discovery, but I rarely have a problem finding them. I toss a scanner half way between my troops and the Seekers' last visible location and it finds the pod most of the time. If I don't see them I just pull all my soldiers away from the Seekers and wait. They always come into the scanner radius within 2 turns. quote:Plus, this thread's advice is chock-full of "x isn't hard, just bring y". Now, that's valid in that lots of small items offer a tactical advantage or even direct counter to certain things, though some are more reliable than others. A diverse equipment setup is required if you want to be ready for anything. But there's only so far that can go. At various points people have said rocketeers aren't weak because they can bring so many rockets, but people also say scatter isn't a big deal because each rocketeer should have a scope. Acid's not bad because everyone can bring medkits, plasma is best when you bring that +1 damage item, assaults should always have walker servos, never use shotguns without breach ammo, chitin plating is important and everyone should have it so small arms fire isn't such a big deal, gunners are great and should always carry the overwatch-boosting item, everything can be solved with grenades, berserkers are super easy to deal with as long as you have a few flashbangs/chems, and seekers are super easy to deal with as long as you always have some battlescanners on hand. I think that's fair, but the simple fact is that there are multiple tactics that are effective against various enemies, and you can plan based on mission. Specifically: 1. For Rocketeers I bring a Scope + 1 Rocket. That's usually plenty. Take the Shredder perk and you have 3 rockets. 2. Don't tell Johnnylump, but you don't need medikits to deal with acid. Just hunker your soldier until it passes or decide to tank the damage if you really need to take an action. 3. I believe in +1 damage items, but they are least effective on Plasma. OTOH you probably have Tactical Rigging by the time Plasma rolls around. 4. Assaults should have Walker Servos, but it's not mandatory. Walker Servos and Shredder Ammo is a pretty good loadout. 5. Breaching Ammo is terrible. Don't use it. Not as bad as AP ammo but still terrible. Take a Chem Grenade if you're worried about DR. 6. Chitin is terrific, but you only really need it on 2 soldiers per mission, max. 7. Gunners with AFC are pretty cool. Not mandatory/doesn't solve any problems. 8. Everything can be solved with Grenades. Except Flying enemies. Solve these with Rockets. 9. Berzerkers are super easy to deal with as long as you have a few flashbangs/chems. 10. Seekers are super easy to deal with as long as you always have some battlescanners on hand. So, to take all this advice, you need: -Battlescanners (free, no weight) -Chems/Flashbangs (I would have at least 1/4 of all item slots devoted to these) -Rockets (1 Rocketeer is sufficient for all your needs, with Scope + SMG + 1 extra Rocket) -Grenades (Maybe another 1/4 of your slots) Remaining 5-6 slots should be utility items by class.
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Oct 25, 2014 21:42
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Playing TEW for the 2nd time this year. Playing on normal with Not Equal, Hidden Potential, and Training Roulette on. Zhang came up with Lightning Reflexes and Sprinter and now has a movement of 17. Totally Rad. Do I get separate plasma research credits that stack from Muton interrogation and Elite autopsy? Or will the game ignore the second credit if I already captured a Muton? And the Elite interrogation stacks on all other weapon credits, right? I did manage to get full-size plasma rifles up in the 2nd month. I probably should have waited since I already did beam weapons. It's neat to have Exalt throwing ballistics at me while my dudes are melting all their cover with hot plasma. It's now month three and I just barely got one genetically modified soldier out with the full jumpy stealth package. I'm sitting on a pile of meld, seems like I got my GM troops out a lot faster last time around. Xcom is fun.
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Oct 25, 2014 22:15
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amanasleep posted:5. Breaching Ammo is terrible. Don't use it. Not as bad as AP ammo but still terrible. Take a Chem Grenade if you're worried about DR. Why do you say that? Berzerker ping-pong become worthless after they gained their high DR until I started packing Breaching ammo on my assaults.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:02
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Darkrenown posted:Why do you say that? Berzerker ping-pong become worthless after they gained their high DR until I started packing Breaching ammo on my assaults. True, unless you Chem the Berzerker first. Matter of play style I guess, but I'd rather take extra Chems and save my Assault Item slots for other stuff.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:19
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What's a good place to start in Beagle's archive? I just got back into XCOM and have been playing EW so I was curious to see how LW plays before I make the jump.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:27
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I guess I have lived a charmed life because I don't remember ever getting chrysalids in April before. P.S. gently caress you, xcom edit: I meant March, not April. Anyway after like three hours my team of specialists took the UFO with only three casualties, so I'm rolling in spaceriches Xtanstic posted:What's a good place to start in Beagle's archive? I just got back into XCOM and have been playing EW so I was curious to see how LW plays before I make the jump. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXctaw5JGF4Inwdinw7ijDafjKlVC2oDo Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 23:32
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amanasleep posted:True, unless you Chem the Berzerker first. Matter of play style I guess, but I'd rather take extra Chems and save my Assault Item slots for other stuff.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:14
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You know what I do hate about Seekers? That sometimes you can't see an entire pod as they are activating, so you go like "I...think that was 3. Was it 4? Did I kill all of them already? Can I stop overwatching?"
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Oct 26, 2014 03:04
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