XCOM 2: DORNE WHEN

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Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

XCOM 2 is a direct sequel to Firaxis's smash hit XCOM: Enemy Unknown and an immense source of joy to all true neckbeards. Firaxis's last game proved to be a very faithful and quite solid modernization of the original game, so hopes are quite high that the sequel will rock as many faces as the EU did. It is slated for release Februray of 2016, so we don't even really have that long to wait!

The typical narrative is getting up-ended a little bit. At the end of Enemy Unknown, XCOM failed somehow. We're not clear on how. They were defeated, scattered, and the aliens took control of the general human population. We pick up twenty years after this failure. The aliens have erected massive cities and made grand promises of a bright future through cooperation to humanity at large, and, outwardly, they seem to deliver. However, the atmosphere is one of choking totalitarianism underneath the veneer. Enemies of the new order disappear, and only those on the fringes of society dare to think for themselves. Basically, aliens made 1984.

XCOM still exists as an insurgent organization, using a mobile base to launch a guerrilla campaign against the alien order. The fight is desperate and the goal is far, far off. But that goal is nothing less than the obliteration of the alien order and the extermination of every filthy xeno gently caress who thought it was a good idea to enslave Homo Superior.

The Geoscape has changed substantially. Now, instead of deploying ships around the world and building hangars to extend your reach, you are restricted to the Avenger, XCOM's mobile base, and short range drops from the Skyranger. Time mostly passes in transit on the Avenger, and distance is now important to access various missions. For example, to do the following mission:

One would actually have to BE in Western Europe.

There are also many mission types, varying from urban patrol combat, to full on invasion of a loving black site.

Furthermore, as the aliens are now in control of earth, they have numerous irons in the fire at any one time. These irons come out as "Dark Events", which manifest as projects that make your life harder in various ways. You will be warned about Dark Events as they come up, but don't expect to be able to prevent all of them.

In addition, the aliens have a cryptic win condition known as the "Avatar project," which will induce action on XCOM's side. We do not know what's up with this just yet.

The Battlescape is also very different. Each mission starts out in tactical concealment, during which time XCOM is undetected and can position themselves along the map without worrying about getting shot to pieces the first time a squad slides into view. It also gives you the crucial first shot in most situations.

Concealment can be broken early by a patrol bumbling into your squad, but their viewed squares are clearly marked. Also, once you shoot an enemy, the entire map goes loud. Soldier classes are also much updated from the original EU (and generally seem much better thought out this time around).

The Ranger

The Ranger generally replaces the Assault from XCOM EU, sporting shotguns and a lot of bloodlust. In addition, he also has a totally sweet machete that he uses for close combat attacks. His two upgrade paths either maximize his effectiveness with his machete, or make him a quieter operator, having special abilities like maintaining tactical concealment after the map goes loud.

The Specialist

The Specialist loosely equates to the Support from EU. He rolls around with an absolutely adorable autonomous drone called the Gremlin, which can be optimized for either hacking into ADVENT systems to mess with or control their mechanical allies and defense systems, or defense protocols to shield and heal teammates.

The Sharpshooter

The Sharpshooter is back, and largely unchanged from the EU incarnation as the Sniper. The biggest change is that Squad Sight is now the Squaddie promotion, but beyond that things haven't changed too much. The two upgrade paths focus on either making the Sharpshooter a better rifleman, or a better pistoleer. And before you think that pistol upgrades sound like they suck, imagine firing a massive gently caress-off revolver for free once a turn and getting free reaction shots with said revolver.

If you're getting Revolver Ocelot quotes in your head now, that's because you are a healthy gamer.

The Grenadier

The Grenadier is basically the Heavy from EU, having traded out the LMG for a minigun and a rocket launcher for an MGL. Both of these things are straight upgrades. Environmental destruction has been expanded, and the increased number of booms toted by your bomb boys is already making a spectacular showing.

GENERAL QUESTIONS
I never played any of these games. What's this all about?
XCOM, in general, puts you in charge of a secret extra-governmental organization tasked with intercepting and eliminating aliens that are tooling around Earth. Precisely what they're doing is unclear, but they're not friendly and you need to put them the hell down. It is one of the only games in history that incorporates both a grand strategic level (the Geoscape) and a fine tactical level (the Battlescape) as equally crucial elements. You must master both to win in XCOM, which makes it very unique, and very appealing for anyone who fancies themselves a fan of strategy.

All of the previous games are available on Steam and if you are a fan of strategy and haven't played them before, you owe it to yourself to give them a shot!

Wait, mobile base?
Yes! We no longer have a static base of operations, as a violent ~~terrorist~~freedom fighting organization. However, we basically have the SHIELD superfortress, so no loss:

So this is going to play different from the other games?
We have every reason to think so! Tactical concealment is confirmed to be a major mechanic in the new game, and the game's official website spells out that we will be guerrillas. This is a radical departure from most of the main line XCOM games!

Are assets getting recycled from Enemy Unknown?
Not that we can tell! The iconic Sectoid has already been seen, but he's looking quite a bit more swole than we left him, and has grown a mouth. This is potentially due to gene therapy in the intervening 20 years, so who knows what the little fucks are capable of now!

As you can see, the environments have also gone a substantial overhaul and look a lot more impressive and detailed than before.

I'm not buying unless there are random maps. That was what made the first one so go--
Good news! That's a confirmed feature! Also full mod support! It's a great time to be an XCOM fan, so shut the gently caress up and get hype!

So what's this about snake tits, then?

Control Volume posted:

code:

       __
      (' <-<
       \ \
        | |8
        | |
 ______/ /
/_______/

god bless

also

Segmentation Fault posted:

The thread title inspired me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZwlC4lSID8

Hopeford posted:

While on the topic of fanart, here's my interpretation of what Van Doorn has been doing those last 20 years

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Don't kill the snakes.

Michaellaneous posted:

Your opinions are awful and if you think massive guns and rag-tag armors are stupid you should reconsider your life choices.

Captain Invictus posted:

Firaxis has announced its partnership with General Mills and included a free female snake with every purchase of a box of Cheerios.

��GOOD LORD. RUFFIANS.
��\

��I SAY
��\

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 13, 2015

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 07:48

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 18:47

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

X-COM: Enemy Unknown is the FIRST Neu-XCOM game, and one that many of us still play regularly. The first 860-odd pages of this thread are all about Enemy Unknown, its expansion, Enemy Within, or the incredibly ambitious Long War mod that expounds upon EW. Talking about this game is still completely a-ok and on-topic while we all get loving hyped about XCOM 2!

GENERAL QUESTIONS
I never played the original. What's this all about?
First of all, the original is still an amazing game, and if you consider yourself at all a fan of strategy games, you should grab it on steam. It's a mere 5 dollars, and it runs in a specially configured DOSBox instance, so it is pretty much guaranteed to work on any modern machine.

That said, in X-COM: Enemy Unknown, you take the role of the commander of a secret, multinational military organization that is tasked with repelling an alien invasion. UFOs will crawl over the skies with an unknowable, inscrutable purpose. When they land, implacable aliens deploy with strange, powerful weaponry to follow the shadowy agenda. Your job, as the X-COM commander, is to stop as many alien operations as possible, develop your force, and eventually defeat the aliens for good.

In short, the movie Independence Day seems like it was inspired pretty heavily by X-COM.

How does it play?
Simple answer is: Great, if not for the bugs.

The game's design is very intuitive and smooth. It is very much a 'minute to learn, millenia to master' sort of game. The strategic map (known as the Geoscape) allows you to build your headquarters carefully to suit your needs, prioritize your research and manufacturing, customize your soldiers, and make decisions on where to focus your monitoring and air power assets on the globe. The tactical map (known as the Battlescape) is where individual combat takes place between your soldiers and the aliens. Soldiers need to be moved from cover to cover, put in tactical modes, and guided on how to make their attacks most effective. As soldiers gain experience, they gain special powers that help them be a more badass murderer, a bigger asset to the team, and more.

The game has a roughly 30 minute tutorial that is enabled by default when you first start the game. This will explain pretty much all the salient basics and is extremely effective overall. X-COM veterans probably won't even need it; simply read up on the new Cover mechanics and you're pretty much good to go.

However, the game has been plagued by a few extremely obnoxious and occasionally mood-killing bugs since release. It is probably best to simply read the last page of the thread to see current bugs; mileage and specifics seem to vary a lot from person to person, and X-COM is such an immersive, intense game that a bug is a serious downer. As a result, bugs tend to get posted about A LOT. Here are a few of the known ones though:

Teleporting enemies: When not 'activated' (e.g., the aliens haven't seen you yet), the game saves resources by simply teleporting enemies from one area to another as they move. Unfortunately, it doesn't always properly register what your squad can see and what it can't see while it does this. So, occasionally, you'll get a pack of aliens 'moving' right into the center of your squad, which is a real problem when the aliens tend to be so much stronger than you.
100% 'miss': Occasionally, when a unit has a 100% chance to hit, the game will fail to allow the soldier to take his shot. The soldier will step out, look like s/he's about to fire, the game will seemingly freeze a moment, and then the soldier will step back into their cover with no shot taken and no damage done.
Berserker freeze: There is a certain enemy called the Muton Berserker that has a special animation and ability that triggers when it is shot. Sometimes this animation can bug out the game and cause it to hang.
animatorZed posted:
Don't use disabling shot against sectopods.
Or if you do, don't move or only move with ghost afterwards.

Disabling shot is bugged and gives them infinite overwatch shots.
Per person.
Per tile moved.

Aren't they fixing them? Isn't it getting supported?
Yes and no. Firaxis has released a few patches for the game, and also a few DLCs. However, every time they want to release a patch on the console platforms, they have to pay the owners of the various console marketplaces (Microsoft, Sony) to certify their patch before it is ever released. This is in stark contrast to PC, where Steam simply lets developers push out a patch without bothering them.

The release of Enemy Within saw a lot of attempted fixes for the above bugs. Some users report full fixes, with no real disruptions at all, at any time. Others report that there are still packs of teleporting enemies ruining your buzz. Your mileage may vary. However, it is generally accepted that the game is not really that terribly buggy, and the reason the bugs are considered such a big deal is precisely because this game sucks you in and does a great job of immersing you. So, bugs tend to feel like a real downer.

How detailed is everything? Especially compared to the original?
The Geoscape is mostly macro-management, and does not have a ton of detail. It lost a lot of its little semantics from the original. You only have one base now; all the rest are simply interceptor launch bases. However, certain buildings give bonuses if built next to eachother, so planning is still an important thing to do. UFO detection has also been simplified a lot. On the up side, you are now guaranteed at least one UFO to shoot down per month. On the downside, a lot of the mystery around hunting and killing UFOs is now gone.

The Battlescape is generally more detailed than its predecessor. Most things on the battlescape are destructable like the original. The new Cover mechanics (nearby terrain can reduce your chance to be hit) make planned demolitions even more important. Soldiers evolve into specific classes now, and you have a number of choices for the development of each soldier. Using your soldiers' skills properly is key to success. This is significantly different from the original, where you simply gave everyone Heavy Plasmas and sent some poor, clueless rookie out to spot aliens while everyone else shot at it from a mile away.

The salient point here is, Jake Solomon is a huge X-COM fan. He's described working on this game as 'his life's dream job'. He knew what he was doing, and it shows in the design.

So what exactly was changed from UFO on the Battlescape?

Instead of TUs, units have two actions per turn that allow them to move, shoot, or take other actions. Shooting normally ends a unit's turn immediately, but some classes have skills that allow them to get around this a bit.
Squads are now smaller. It starts at 4 soldiers, and with research can go up to 6.
Soldiers are now promoted purely based on the number of kills they have, instead of the cryptic way they were promoted in UFO. Classes are assigned completely randomly.
Alien weapons now explode into fragments when they are killed. To retrieve weapons whole, you must capture the alien alive. This is done by a researched stun gun called the Arc Thrower, and it is generally a pretty big deal to get a weapon back. Plasma weaponry is among the best in the game, and tends to be very expensive to manufacture.
There's a lot more stuff you can customize now. Out of the box, you can customize everything about a soldier's face, voice, etc. You can still customize their name as well. When they reach Sergeant rank they also get a nickname that you can assign or leave to one of the defaults. The random nickname generator knocks it out of the park more often than not.
Classes use very different weapons now - no more outfitting everyone with the 12 of the same rifle. Only the Heavy class can use the larger guns such as LMGs, Heavy Lasers, and Heavy Plasmas. Heavies also carry rocket launchers. Snipers are the only ones who can carry sniper rifles, and are the only class that can shoot outside of their visual radius (and even then they require a skill to do it). Assaults can optionally wield shotguns. Supports only use assault rifles, but come with powerful defensive abilities that are critical to the long term survival of the team.
There are a few more mission types now. Occasionally you will be asked to retrieve a VIP or something similar. Terror missions are also still a thing. However, all missions can still be won by butchering all aliens in the area, so the difference here is almost academic.

What about the Geoscape?

You only have one base now; Interceptor hangars are alloted for free by continent. You cannot have an Interceptor in Europe respond to a UFO sighting in northern Africa, even though it might technically be in range.
Monthly funding is not directly tied to your performance as it once was; now you simply get a fixed amount of money if you have a satellite over a member nation. You only start with a single satellite deployed, so supporting more is a very high priority indeed.
Member nations no longer withdraw due to arbitrary alien missions in their airspace. Member nations have a 'panic level' that indicates how unstable the population is. Panic is raised by alien activity not being stopped (particularly abduction and terror activity) and lowered by efficient X-COM responses and satellite deployments. If panic is maxed out at the end of a month, the game rolls some dice to see if they will withdraw from the X-COM project. If 8 of the 16 original countries withdraw, the game ends in defeat.
In addition to money, fully covering an entire continent gives you a unique bonus. For example, fully covering Africa gives you a 30% increase to your gross funding every month, across the board. If a country on the continent leaves the Council, that bonus is lost forever. The only exception to this is the bonus from the continent your headquarters is on; you will always have this bonus.
Interceptor combat is generally more simple now. There is no types of attacks, the interceptor merely engages to the best of its abilities. You can still help it by activating one-use equipment back at base, but generally you have less involvement.

So, just straight up: is the game fun?
Yes. Yes, yes, yes. A thousand times, yes. This game is fun the first time you play it. It's fun the 5th time you play it. I am up to ~75 games as of the time of this posting and I'm still having a ton of fun tweaking my macro strategy and shaking my fist as aliens pull off seemingly impossible shots to murder the poo poo out of my most promising soldiers. And this is just with the basic options. The game also has an Ironman mode that restricts your saving, and Second Wave options that let you turn optional rules on and off at will. The craftsmanship of this game is generally very good, and it's obvious that Jake Solomon loves the poo poo out of this game.

That's cool. So what about Enemy Within?
Enemy Within is much like an expansion in the late 90s and early 2000s style. It is fundamentally the same game, but the game has been refined, polished, and improved. There is really no sense in getting the game without Enemy Within. It is a fundamentally better and more interesting experience than vanilla. It is worth it.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 2, 2015

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 07:49

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

XCOM: ENEMY UNKNOWN

Before doing anything else, you should enable the Autosave. Go to the Options and look for it. Trust me, when you're learning the game it saves you all sorts of heartache. :siren:

We want to encourage discussion of XCOM 1 for those of you who are just finding the game. It's a great game and it's still very worth playing, even years after its release. To do this, we have a reasonably well populated FAQ. However, in order to not bury this post in a deluge of words that nobody will get any value from, I've moved it to a pastebin.

You can find the XCOM 1 FAQ here: http://pastebin.com/aTBa19MD

MODDING
The Nexus has opened a subsite for Enemy Unknown here. The main mod people talk about, though, is The Long War.
http://web.archive.org/web/20150612103541/http://a.pomf.se/tjmrzr.webm
The Long War - :siren:

Be sure to read ALL the instructions on their releases! :siren:

It is difficult to even call this a mod since it changes pretty much everything about the original game. There are now 8 soldier classes, with 8 MEC classes, a swarm of new equipment, a completely overhauled tech tree, and much, much more. Pretty much everything about the base game got changed in Long War, some for weal (larger squad sizes, difficulty curve fixed to make the early game generally harder than the late one, fatigue requirements to encourage the use of more than a half-dozen soldiers) and some for woe (there are now a lot of time sinks and development traps that are almost completely nonfunctional for the overall game, many things are completely inscrutable without a guide).

Will you like the mod? That's hard to say. There are certainly a ton of things to be very excited about with Long War. It gives an experience that's much like the old UFO Defense - the game is asymmetric, and each mission is pretty unique with the sheer amount of content that the developers have installed. You will be unable to go on an eternal victory streak. Just stop trying, it is practically impossible. This makes the game, at its soul, much more interesting than vanilla. The difficulty is also ratcheted up several notches, with each month more harrowing than the last. This is refreshing for those of us that have beaten Impossible/Ironman and are now looking for an even greater challenge. However, the mod is highly unpolished and has a lot of extraneous niches in it. "Fixes" were applied to items that were never broken in the first place. New, kludgy features were added to systems that already worked very well. Other systems that were perfectly functional before have been expanded to the point of being overwrought. The improvements that were added are rarely tested in conjunction with one another, so even if two things are objectively a huge improvement over vanilla, when taken together they can sometimes create a very bad experience.

All that said, if you have beaten the vanilla game an enjoyed it, you owe it to yourself to at least give Long War a try. It's a wild ride and a definite work of love on the part of some extremely devoted developers. It's a free download, so even if you end up hating it, it's a fun way to spend a weekend.

It's worth noting that Long War, like Skyrim, gets better the more you customize it to your taste. Many of the mods for Long War get rid of some of the jank and cruft that drags down the experience. Most mods require PatcherGUI to install. There's also the user-configurable DefaultGameCore.ini with a number of settings you can adjust.

The Iron Rose, a goon modder for Long War, has helpfully compiled a list of recommended mods and settings for a first playthrough of Long War that improve the playing experience.

Her nexus profile with all her mods is here. If you need advice, help, or just have something you want to change about Long War you can PM her on SA or the nexus.

Her list includes a couple of bugfixes, some UI improvements, and her own re-balance of Long War.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jan 28, 2016

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 07:49

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Cleretic posted:

Re-asking a question I asked right before this thread went online: I finished this game on Normal, what should be my next step? Turning on Ironman, Classic, or some Second Wave options?

Of these three I'd probably recommend stepping it up to Classic. Classic is where the game really starts to come into its own as one that punches you in the face and leaves you asking for more. The wikia only claimed that Easy has the stealth cheating, but from my limited experience in Normal I suspect it's in force there as well.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 09:06

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Tommofork posted:

I can never find the link but it is confirmed that normal gives you a stealth bump to your to rolls (due to players having problems understanding random chance with their PRIMITIVE MONKEY BRAIN). The AI is also handicapped on Normal and below.

Also, the PGS thread for the Xcom multiplayer is closed.

Updated both posts, thanks for the help!

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 16:10

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

ulmont posted:

I think you should copy the "quick satellite guide" from the previous thread here...

Mind linking it? I'm actually not familiar with what you're talking about.

amanasleep posted:

Another great include is http://www.thatgoblin.com/xcom_calculator.php. This is an MP calculater that is great for theorycrafting MP builds out of game. It has a few bugs and doesn't reflect the most recent changes to MP point costs, but I find it very useful.

Also, FWIW I find MP incredibly fun even though I agree that it is a buggy, unbalanced mess.

Good stuff, thanks.

Fister Roboto posted:

You should probably mention in the gameplay section that you can build more than one satellite at a time, since that seems to be a big stumbling block for new players.

Okay!

Dr Christmas posted:

One small detail that might be nice for the FAQ on stunning enemies. While you can upgrade the the ARC thrower to capture drones, there's no interrogation for doing so.

Done.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jan 19, 2013

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 20:50

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

RBA Starblade posted:

It would be worth mentioning too that you can build multiple at once, but it's worth it to, instead of having one order of three satellites, have three orders of one satellite. This allows you to cancel individual ones to get cash back if you need it. It's good to have several in reserve in case one gets shot down and well.

I already did!

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 21:11

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Karpaw posted:

http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/46

If someone can vouch that this works with the most recent patch I will add it to the mods post.

Wildtortilla posted:

Does the US bonus reduce the cost of satellites or just aircraft and aircraft weapons?

Air and Space does not reduce cost of satellites. However, remember that it also halves maintenance on your air force. This is a BIG DEAL on higher difficulties, as Interceptors are extremely unreliable as long as they've got Avalanche Missiles and it behooves you to have 3 on each continent.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 21:51

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Wildtortilla posted:

Ah poo poo. I don't know why but I thought satellite costs were reduced. I was planning to start a new game on North America for cheap satellites and make a beeline to get Africa covered for the bonus income. I guess I'll just keep trudging along in my current game.

Nothing reduces satellite costs except more engineers, sadly. Still, North America is one of the two really solid starts I'd recommend for most people on higher difficulties. The other is Asia.

Thel posted:

Also, more generally, an alien that can see a xcom soldier in overwatch will never move. Then having someone flank them seems to break their puny alien brain or something.

This is a well known AI bug. I'm refraining from mentioning it in the OP because its usage is largely considered a personal taste sort of thing.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 22:10

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

QuantaStarFire posted:

Why Asia over Africa?

Africa is amazing to pick up later when +30% funding is a matter of a couple hundred bucks, but early on it will be worth roughly 30-50$/mo to you.

Asia will save you hundreds almost instantly when you build the OTS. And holy CHRIST is the OTS a big deal in Classic/Impossible.

RBA Starblade posted:

I've heard that it can on Normal, but are Ravens able to shoot down the Overseer on Classic or Impossible, or is it completely mandatory to build the Firestorms? I can't tell if it's just bad luck or what, since I ran out of track/aim/dodge buffs trying.

The specifics probably depend on how many corpses you've engineered into buffs. I'm positive it's possible to splash the Overseer UFO with an Interceptor, but the question becomes whether it's a good idea. You can either spend a ton of corpses (and therefore, money) on buff matrices and still be unable to engage Battleships when the time comes, or you can just solve the drat problem when it comes about.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jan 19, 2013

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 22:15

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

QuantaStarFire posted:

But that 30-50 bucks is another potential satellite, at a time when having lots of satellites is a big deal. It just seems like an odd tradeoff, especially when you could use that satellite in securing Asia for the bonus.

The contribution of satellites is relatively limited without the air power to defend them (NA) and the land power to recover their spoils (Asia). You also can't even use them without the requisite engineer base (Europe).

Rushing satellites is critical to success, but it has to be balanced with the rest of the dozens of demands you have on you in the early game. I will routinely sell off almost the entire first UFO I splash to keep up with the financial demands. An extra 30% on the first couple countries is not going to make a ton of difference.

Don't get me wrong, starting in Africa is not a bad idea (I'd argue that the only truly 'bad' place to start is SA), but I just don't prefer it since the bonus only makes a lot of sense after you've got some steam going.

RBA Starblade posted:

Yeah, plasma's best I've got. What gives EMP Research again?

Amusingly, researching firestorms. Also, this question prompted me to add a link to the tech tree in the second post.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 22:30

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Coylter posted:

What is the point of being able to make multiple save game if you can't get away from lovely RNG? Isn't it basically just letting people save/load but using a sneaky programming trick to make sure you can't really change the outcome.

I mean wouldn't it be simpler to not let you reload at all and just antosave in real time. At least you wouldn't be under the illusion that the save / load function serves a purpose. Am i missing something?

You can advance the RNG and therefore recalculate shots by taking almost any action. If you have 3 soldiers and you know Soldier A is going to miss a 90% chance to hit shot, simply move Soldier B or Soldier C, then go back and tell Soldier A to fire again. He will probably hit this time.

I discourage this sort of savescumming for a few reasons though:

It's colossally un-fun. What is fun in this game is moving tacticoolly, murdering aliens, and making poo poo blow up. It is not nursing an RNG. If an outcome is truly unacceptable to you, reload a few turns back or, better yet, from the beginning of the mission.
It hamstrings your development as a player. One of the appeals of a game as challenging as this is is getting better at the game and loving up the AI at its own tricks. If you don't have some moments and get nailed, you're going to keep making the same mistakes.
It's boring.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 22:40

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Nephilm posted:

Asia is a terrible starting continent.

The starting funds difference between Asia and NA on Impossible is �110. How much money does the halved OTS costs save you for the critical early game upgrades? 62 bitcoins between Squad Size I & II. 125 if you add Wet Work to the equation.

Iron Will is an absolutely god drat critical upgrade in Impossible so toss that in there too.

You're also not including all the soldiers you have to replace because you're taking fewer casualties with extra soldiers on the field. Trust me, that's DEFINITELY a thing.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 22:52

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Klyith posted:

You are insanely low on the math for the Africa start. Month 1 it's worth $30, Month 2 you should grab the US and 1 other country worth at least $100, and the bonus is at least $125 even if you couldn't afford 3 sats. That's an entire extra country! From there is just snowballs up. Africa is worth at minimum twice any other bonus over the course of the game.

By the end of month 3 you should reasonably have enough of an infrastructure going to cover most of the map. 3 satellite control centers with adjacency bonuses is 8 sat capacity, which is more than enough to cover both Africa and Asia (presuming an NA start), plus a spare to fight panic.

Over the course of the game, I think you're correct that Africa's bonus does contribute more to your victory than anything else. But that doesn't mean you should start there, unless you are scared of losing a country there (which is legitimate - I, personally, am generally not, though).

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jan 19, 2013

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 23:10

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Nephilm posted:

I don't think you're understanding.

Are you getting an OTS in the first month or not?

If you're in Asia, yes. If you're in NA or elsewhere I'd probably put it off to month 2.

Klyith posted:

And by the same token, it's pretty easy to afford the good stuff in OTS during month 3 even if you don't have the Asia bonus. For example, Iron Will is cool, but are you really getting it in the second month?

Yes? Any later and most of your initial crop of officers will be big liabilities against Sectoid Commanders and Ethereals. Early Iron Will saves you the effort and risk involved in training a late game A-Team. Even with early IW your first officers will be inherently inferior, but the extra Will they get is a Big Deal.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 23:43

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Nephilm posted:

1. Your tech progression has nothing to do with the enemies that show up.

This is not true. Beelining plasma weapons will cause Mutons to show up a bit earlier than they otherwise would (I got them on the 19th of Month 2 when i did this, and I have reproduced it a couple times).

# ¿ Jan 19, 2013 23:51

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Nephilm posted:

And you mentioned Iron Will? Well, yeah, sure, it's an excellent upgrade and taking it certainly closes the gap a bit more (5 vs 40), but I sincerely doubt you'll have a Major until the end of Month 2

On Impossible this is not difficult at all with how many loving aliens you have to goddamn shoot.

Also, as I already said I usually sell off pretty much the entirety of the first UFO I splash you can reasonably expect that I'm not just focusing on Council funding for my early game funds. It's also kind of boorish to do a one-dimensional analysis of this stuff and declare one better since these things also heavily depend upon the player's play style, which is why I made a point of saying that the only truly 'bad' start is probably South America. I can see use cases for pretty much every other continental start.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2013 00:23

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Nephilm posted:

Even if you focus on one guy killing everything (up to per mission XP cap) and not getting wounded, you're not getting a major before Month 2, not even early Month 2.

I said before the end of month 2, perhaps you misunderstood me. I have a game that's April 22nd with a Major, a Captain, and 2 Lieutenants if you'd like me to take a quick video of it. I'm 95% sure that was one of my Classic games too, on Impossible you'd have 50% more XP floating around due to all the jerks you have to shoot. So on that mode she probably would've ranked up even faster.

Also, regarding the promotion bullet point on the OP, note that I'm contrasting it with UFO Defense. In that game, promotions would only occur if you had enough soldiers in XCOM's employ, and even then the game made some shadowy determinations of who was 'best' and promoted the 'best' soldier. This sometimes led to weirdness where a soldier who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if he was inside it, has muscles flabby enough that a rifle is too heavy, and is so cowardly that the mere sight of an alien makes him void his bowels would be the X-COM Commander because, underneath all those awful stats, he has 100 Psi Strength. And you'll never know about this until halfway through the game.

This was a big deal in UFO because strategic deployment of officers helped keep your soldiers stable when a few of them died. Squaddies dying was less of a big deal for morale if there was a Captain on the field who was still kicking. Of course, if the Captain got it, everyone was making GBS threads themselves.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jan 20, 2013

# ¿ Jan 20, 2013 03:48

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Nephilm posted:

Oh, I understood perfectly, and restated it perfectly. Having a Major by the later third of April is certainly doable, but for the first half of it you just can't due to the XP caps unless you get extremely lucky with mission distribution.

Nothing changes though, I've already went over why even with also buying Iron Will you get no tangential benefit from starting on Asia over NA.

Well a lot of things change when you consider that the majority of your soldiers will be ranked up right the first time, which is neither something you took into account with your calculations nor something you can really quantify in terms of credits. This is one of the things I was talking about when I was talking about play style, which you (rather confusingly) dismissed as irrelevant? There's also more than just the OTS, the Foundry is not hard to get up and running (you need only research Experimental Warfare), and early SHIVs can be very nice in Impossible for their free Suppression, if you're the sort that dislikes giving Suppress to your Heavies. Supports don't get the skill until LT, which can make dealing with Thin Men a pain. Not my bag really, but I've seen it work. I was sort of hoping we were talking past eachother because otherwise we're going in circles and you are kinda being bullheaded for the sake of being bullheaded.

But seeing as how that's most likely the case at this point I'm just going to pretend you don't exist for a while.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2013 04:54

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Regarding SHIVs, remember that half cover + Hunker is basically full cover. SHIVs make an utterly amazing stopover point for an Assault who's working up to a Run & Gun.

Regarding Grenades, I usually bring them on Supports after they get Deep Pockets, and Assaults prior to that. Grenades are really useful for demolitions, even on Impossible. On Imp they're also really nice for weakening enemies for capture. I'll usually keep one grenade around no matter what for an emergency demolition - if you have a Heavy with 3 rockets and danger zone that's plenty of booms, but the Heavy isn't mobile when firing, so if I need to move someone into position and throw a hot potato to kill someone NOW, a Support with Sprinter and Skeleton Armor is the ticket.

Also, holy loving poo poo @ the Combat Stims effect. I had never bothered to use them before, but that's huge.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2013 23:08

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Wasse posted:

Have there been any updates on additional DLC for the game?

I've done two runs at this point (a casual.. yeah, that was stupid, and a classic). And was thinking about doing another one soon - but if DLC is coming out sooner than later, I figure I might as well wait.

Solomon's said they're working on it, and it's not like Slingshot (presumably it's a larger story arc, or a new major mechanic). We have no other details.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 15:27

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Iceshade posted:

Speaking of maps, didn't Firaxis say there are around 100 maps in the game, each with rotating/random spawn points (unless they never actually said that)? There only seems to be one spawn position for the player units.

There are multiple spawn points for players on a lot of different maps, but sometimes there's only one for a specific mission type. Bomb missions, for example, don't have any alternate layouts to my understanding.

There was a brief analysis of this in the last thread, and as nearly as anyone can reasonably tell the 100 maps figure is basically the number of static maps * the number of spawn points. Which makes it TECHNICALLY true but not really honest in a lot of peoples' estimation.

I say 'can reasonably tell' because nobody really has an official word on it, people were just trying to justify that number with what we know exists and that's the figure that got closest.

quote:

Since the multiplayer section is kinda bare, I will shamelessly plug my how-to-get-started-in-multiplayer video featuring "XCOM is buggy so turn off your stupid microphone". Also, how not to make the host wait for you while you use the matchmaking lobby to read all the pricing and abilities, and how to make 6 clone troopers that will carry you to victory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq_WfXnOTy8

Good stuff, thanks.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 17:41

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

The easiest way to envision cover is to envision it like a two-dimensional plane. If someone's taking cover behind a wall, and has high cover, you can mentally stretch that wall over the entire map. If you're on the same side of that wall as the alien, you're flanking him. If you're on the opposite side, he's got cover. It doesn't matter if your displacement on the other axis is 2 squares or 20; he's got cover. If this doesn't make sense let me know and I'll MSPaint up a model.

I really have had very few complaints about the cover system. Bugs aside, it's pretty coherent, is designed well, and makes the battlescape feel more like a tactical engagement.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 19:22

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

WeaponBoy posted:

This isn't exclusive to XCOM as you can see it in places like D&D where rolling a 19 hits, but rolling an 18 whiffs.

To be fair if you're still rolling to hit something with a weapon at high levels in D&D 3.5 or lower you're really just going through the motions until the mage gets off his rear end and uses the power of the cosmos to vaporize everything in a 10 foot radius (save for half damage and only die instead of gib).

# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 19:48

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

WeaponBoy posted:

I'd prefer a higher probability of hitting aliens (and a higher chance of getting hit by aliens) but with lower amounts of damage. I'd be totally ok with the enemy defense that muton elites and ethereals have meaning -X damage so shooting them with a basic pistol is pretty much never going to do damage unless you crit. So, I guess, something like this:

Yeah, the biggest difference between what you're talking about and the way it is right now is just the chaos factor. Battlescape engagements are extremely chaotic, and once you start making guarantees on whether or not someone can die before you get another move, that's when chaos ratings start diving rapidly. Lower chaos in something as brutal as a firefight turns a game into a clinical transaction. That's fine in an RTS or a 4x, but that's not what X-COM's about. Getting shot sucks. People die. And aliens are MOTHERFUCKERS.

Shalinor posted:

Is losing China in month 2 on Classic as bad as I think it is? Or could I have recovered?

It's certainly not a 'gently caress it, i'm done' problem but I would've made a D: face too. China's a good contributor and I'm usually just finishing up Asia coverage in month 2 for an OTS blitz, presuming I didn't start there. I would've been more pissed about losing Egypt or the States, though.

quote:

Also, since it looks like you can coax bigger ships out of hiding by missing intercepts, is it ever a strategy to intentionally miss a ship to get a bigger ship early? Or would those always be packing aliens you probably can't handle anyways?

The aliens themselves aren't the problem, it's the UFO. A Firestorm with a Plasma Cannon has a coin flip's chance of bringing down a Battleship, maybe more if you burn a bunch of matrices. I'm pretty confident that if you got on board one of them, you'd be able to handle it with lasers and skeleton armor. I wouldn't be too eager to try it before that, particularly without Skeleton Armor (+defense <3).

It'd actually be kind of nice to get some discussion/experiences with various aircraft weapons in here. I usually just stick with Avalanche missiles until Plasma Cannon, because I don't see any of the other things as that big of an upgrade due to the piss-rear end range on most of them.

BigRed0427 posted:

If I capture a outsider alien early (Before I interrogate my first alien) Will that break the game at all or screw something up?

Dr. Vahlen will be a bit more hilarious, but that's about it. If you take an Outsider first, then interrogate say, a Sectoid, Vahlen will still bitch you out for killing Outsiders.

Klyith posted:

Good way to stock up on LPRs early from an alien that's dead easy to capture.

Dr. Vahlen also bitches you out for this, which is even more hilarious.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jan 21, 2013

# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 23:25

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Not a Step posted:

Someone was asking about intentionally letting smaller UFOs go to summon bigger ones. I do this nearly every game, because if you let the very first small scout UFO go a medium scout will show up with ~24 hours to try and shoot down your satellite.

I did NOT know this. I had always figured it would be another terror ship or something. This is really awesome, pretty much objectively better than just blasting the small scout.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 23:39

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Not a Step posted:

That's a lot of money and alloys to invest in interceptors and plasma cannons. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just build a firestorm before trying to take a battleship down?

Interceptors with plasma cannons is probably the best cost vs benefit option you get in the entire game. An interceptor costs no exotic materials, just a little money (a piddly amount if you have AaS), and they're brilliantly effective against most UFO classes. My end game ideal is to have 1 firestorm and 3 interceptors on every continent.

Koorisch posted:

Doesn't capturing a Outsider early make the game progress skip a beat or is that only if you research it?

You literally cannot research it until you interrogate an alien if my memory serves me correctly, which it may not.

It's entirely possible, though. It'd be pretty funny if you had the Gellar Chamber built and Dr. Vahlen is still having an aneurysm about 'ZE BODIES'.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jan 21, 2013

# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 23:41

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

TemporarySetback posted:

I thought having War Weariness (Council funding drops per month) with Marathon would make the game actually impossible, but it turns out Marathon makes even that easier due to the amount of crap you can hawk off.

Pretty much canon if you consider UFO Defense though, where you got funding at the end of the month and you were like "oh cool something to wipe my rear end with while i'm taking a bath in the proceeds from the last ufo". Incidentally:

WeaponBoy posted:

Has anyone at Firaxis or elsewhere ever said anything about why you can't sell off random items? There's a grey market for selling alien swag and you can dismiss ships, soliders, SHIVs, etc., but if you're getting further into the game and you've got a bunch of extra LPRs and laser weaponry it just sort of rots there. Maybe you get a council request for them, but eh.

Also, what do most of you guys use in your supports' second slot? I've been waffling between grenade and scope. Extra cover destruction or better overwatch.

Above is the reason why, I imagine. If they let you sell off everything the aliens give you or, worse, laser weaponry, you could probably just poo poo out a ton of cash and the Council's funding would be completely redundant. That's how it was in UFO - as long as you didn't get shut down, it really did not matter at all how many countries you lost.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2013 00:11

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Shalinor posted:

... and I have no idea how you guys are getting 3-4 satellites up by end of month 1. I struggled to get 2 up, unless you're counting the freebie I think you start with already in air?

When I talk about that I'm always talking about how many I've got in the air (which I admit can be confusing). So I'm only building 2 satellites and the uplink, to the tune of about $250-$300 normally.

Also as far as the money goes I pretty much do what you said, though. I hock everything except weapon fragments, ~10-15 elerium, and ~20 alloys. Everything else goes. I occasionally run into timing problems like everyone's talking about. That really sucks, but it's typically not a deal-breaker in the early game slingshots out of suckhood.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 22, 2013

# ¿ Jan 22, 2013 01:38

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Yeah, after my early attempts to slingshot to light plasma rifles and how awful that turned out, I can't recommend anyone ever try that. And I do have problems with fragment bottlenecking even on Impossible quite often, I never sell weapon fragments and I very often don't fulfill Council requests that require them.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 22, 2013

# ¿ Jan 22, 2013 01:47

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

WeaponBoy posted:

Plasma research in general is kinda hosed. A captured muton is so god damned useful. I have a game right at the end of month 1 and I have a captured plasma pistol and light rifle and they're 28/30 days respectively. It also doesn't help that scientists are kind of useless after a while so focusing on getting them early helps with research, but...I'd rather just get more engineers and build more workshops.

There's definitely a balance issue with Scientists in that they have a real sunset date, but it's somewhat balanced by the fact that the sooner they get to that sunset, the better off you are.

Essentially though, I think it's telling that in a normal game, I build 4 Workshops and 2 Laboratories.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2013 03:53

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Muscle Tracer posted:

So I poured enough time into this game for three playthroughs in the last few days, and I have a number of unrelated/newbie questions that could probably be summed up by asking: does anyone know of a general tactics guide for this game, preferably with some math to it (what different covers are worth, etc)? For instance, I keep seeing folks saying that using Hunker Down frequently is essential on Classic and Impossible, but I'm not sure how to arrange my squad to take advantage of hunkered soldiers, other than with Squadsight snipers.

Essentially, if you don't have something good for a soldier to do (a potential kill shot on an alien, Overwatch specifically to lock down an alien you're trying to flank, or something else of the sort), you should hunker down. I'm not sure what you mean by 'arranging your squad'; the important thing to remember is that the reduced vision only persists through the alien turn. If aliens are unactivated, this is a good thing; they can actually move into your field of vision without activating, so you get a free shot at them in the open on your turn. If the aliens are activated, well, you know where they are and it doesn't really do you any good to watch them try to murder you during your turn!

Hunker Down is your default "I don't really have anything better to do right now, but I'd like to not die" button. The most obvious use is when you're moving an Assault up a bit before you throw on Run & Gun for a kill shot, but to move them forward you have to stick them in low cover. Hunker will make their low cover count as full.

As far as what different covers are worth, the basic way you should think about it, from least desirable to most is:

Exposed/no cover
Low Cover (+20 defense)
High Cover (+40 defense)
Concealment (break LoS)

A conservative, safe way to play is to figure that if you have cover that is one level better than the aliens, you have a fair fight. Even cover situations (e.g. you both have a lot of high cover) will generally favor the aliens. Concealment is what you want to strive for most because the aliens cannot shoot at what they cannot see, and if they have to guess at where you are it's more likely they'll make a mistake. If you're coming from Normal, you are used to the aliens every so often making a dumb move that effectively gives you a free kill - the AI is hobbled and literally has to roll a die to see if it's gonna be retarded every time it goes to move an alien. You will not see this anymore on Classic and above. If you want your easy kills you will have to fool the AI.

quote:

Also, a satellite question: is it better to focus on locking down continents one at a time, or use them as stopgap measures for high-panic countries? Or for the money?

On Classic you can probably use them to control panic more. On Impossible it's way better to use them to lock down whole continents, because once a continent is secured it's gonna stay that way unless you gently caress up. Abduction missions cease over a country with a satellite, so if a full continent is secured then the only possible way panic can go up on that continent is for you to miss UFOs or gently caress up terror missions, which are way more controllable.

I've heard the meta-game discussion advanced that it is actually to your benefit to leave Argentina uncovered so it will continue to experience abductions. In purely pragmatic terms this is probably true; you can count on one mission there per month, and the rewards will easily outstrip the extra little bit of money you get from them (I think they're +60, so +78 with All In, and We Have Ways is pretty useless if you have 2 Labs). However, by the time you're getting to that phase in the game, you probably want to save your strength and focus on the bigger battles.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jan 22, 2013

# ¿ Jan 22, 2013 07:35

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Muscle Tracer posted:

That said, is there a good guide or resource for actual game math about things like cover, defense, the effect of will on psionics, etc?

The game spells out the math for you if you click 'more info' when you're taking a shot. Basically you take Aim, you subtract defense, and POOF you have your shot math!

Will on psionics is a little more hazy since clicking More Info will just give you the shot math again. But with what you can actually control it's just "MORE WILL IZ BETTUR". Beyond that it's stuff like intrinsic difficulties for powers.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2013 15:17

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

5er posted:

Somewhere deep in the greasy guts of the old thread there was a pretty good step by step recommendation on how to punch out maximum satellites by the first month's payday- anyone who knows what I'm talking about, would you be capable of reposting it? I'm prepared to do the digging myself when I get home later.

It is already in this thread, I've just been lazy as all hell about adding it to the OP.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2013 20:40

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Yeah, Bullet Swarm is not for Shoot + Shoot prior to about Captain, even though that's what it makes you think of right away. Until Captain and SCOPE, it is for shoot and hunker, shoot and fall back, or some such. It gives you offense without the associated weaknesses. I am not a fan of Holo Targeting because you really shouldn't be taking that many shots at someone. They should be worm food pretty quick, Cyberdisks and Sectopods being the obvious exceptions.

But this is also incorporating my ideals of heavies, too. I see them as the units that are around to say 'gently caress your poo poo'. They are there to punish mistakes. They are there to turn stuff into a crater. Some dude is out in the open after a fall back ambush? Too bad. Bullet Storm. gently caress your poo poo. A squad of aliens groups up behind lots of cover? Too bad. Rocket time. gently caress your poo poo. Aliens send a group of hard targets like Chryssalids or a Cyberdisk swarm? Too bad. Shredder rocket. gently caress your poo poo. Some people use their Heavies as base of fire and support demolitions. That's fine. It's just not how I use them.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2013 18:17

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Shalinor posted:

Wait, wait, hold on. Bullet swarm lets you shoot TWICE? I thought it just let you shoot once then move after. Dammit.

Sorry, boom-boom, but I'm finding another heavy and punting your rear end to B squad.

This is why I maintain that heavies should get SCOPEs before snipers or assaults. They are the only class that can shoot twice below Captain. Though admittedly, you wont use them like that too much, but even shoot and grenade is a serious gently caress you.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2013 18:49

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Zandar posted:

Normally, the percentage chance of someone being gifted when put into testing is: (Will/4) + max(0, 75 - 20*(number of soldiers in barracks with higher Will) - 40*(number of soldiers with the highest 6 Wills which are already psionic)).

With More Than Human, the percentage chance becomes: (Will/8)/(1 + number of psionic soldiers in barracks). I think you'd be lucky to get 2 psionics in this mode.

I only have one criteria for Best Mod in the Universe: Change the Psi formulas so it doesn't take into account how many soldiers in the barracks are gifted. Seriously, that is DUMB. If you want to make it insanely low and then simply guarantee that your first test will have the one psionic you absolutely must have to beat the game, that's fine. If you want to keep it relatively high so you can have a roving band of psychic lunatics, even better. Trying to soft-cap us on psychics makes zero sense in game terms and is a total buzzkill.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2013 02:27

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Brainamp posted:

Super-soldiers? You mean the named soldiers like Sid Meier? Those have been there since release.

He's referring to Chris Kluwe. In which case he went in last patch. Also, even with Second Wave options, you are never equaling the heroes, just FYI. I don't remember what Sid does, but Otto has 100 HP and like 200 Aim. I am not exaggerating when I say he is a god of war in the OP.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2013 15:33

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Shalinor posted:

Thin men are bastards, but they're also squishy and hilarious to take out in clumps via rocket. I don't find them to be any worse than sectiods, usually, except that they tend to huck spit at my hunkered down dudes. Which then panicks them, joy.

Speaking of, does Classic make panic more common? Or am I totally hosed, and half my squad is mind control meat the second I hit a commander?

I have never played Normal much so I can't tell you how panic relates, but I will tell you that anyone with less than 70 Will is a Mind Control incident waiting to happen.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2013 16:35

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 18:47

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Occasionally it helps. One time I had 7 Floaters roll in out of nowhere, near my Danger Zone heavy.

Next turn I had a very smug heavy.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2013 19:10

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