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Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

HelmetCheese posted:

It's a drat shame and I have some 250 hours logged since the game launched. I'd probably have another hundred logged if those glitches weren't so game-breaking to me.

You dedicated souls are the reason why Jake Solomon will probably have to dedicate a LOT of time making 800 maps for the expansion or, if he's smart, consider randomly generated maps like in the original.

By the way, any word whatsoever on a possible expansion?

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Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

I hope we don't see those "Old Gods" yet, though.

Remember, the first chapter of this reboot is closed with X-COM learning that it WAS NOT, in fact, an invasion. It was an experiment ran by the Ethereals to try to find out if humans had the Gift (for them to use as vessels) or if we were simply candidates for just another enslaved species.

As it turns out, somewhere far away many, many more Ethereals may have received the message that the Earth is "full of deliciously gifted beings", and this time it might be a real invasion.

And anyway, the Ethereals are just too interesting and we've seen too few of them. Let's see what Firaxis will do, but it was pretty clear to me that Part 1 wasn't really a war. Actually, Vahlen or Shen, I don't remember who said that, but I recall that they were puzzled as to why the aliens didn't just attack and conquer us, opting instead to abduct and infiltrate. When you attack the alien base, you understand what was up with all those abductions, with all those humans trapped in the probing machines.

It just seemed like a war to us. But that was just a... misunderstanding... met with an... overzealous response.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

toasterwarrior posted:

Seeing XCOM literally become bigger as the invaders step up their game would be kinda interesting to see. I imagine the basic unit being a squad instead of individual soldiers would be a drastic and potentially derailing change, but I'd welcome the sort of tactical options you could get from bigger scale fights. Artillery strikes, strafing runs from nearby aircraft, etc.

Also, people are saying that the trailer doesn't reveal much, but I think it does state a very important thing that I've speculated about before.

If the Gifted could hack into the Ethereal hive-mind, then maybe the Ethereals could also hack into HIS. And if so, the Ethereals would know about the Council, the X-COM base, our own method of reverse-engineering their technologies...

In the trailer, the Council transmission to the base is lost.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

The Kins posted:

Here's something neat from GDC: Revision3 got Julian Gollop and (a very starstruck) Jake Solomon in the same room for the first time to discuss turn-based alien-murder simulators old and new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZsecTRfM

Holy crap, why is Julian Gollop not working with Jake on the XCOM franchise?

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Nephilm posted:

Thin Women confirmed for next expansion.

They'd never be able to infiltrate America. Maybe Europe.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

WarpedNaba posted:

You'd be surprised how far an attractive and flexible woman can infiltrate.

Those don't exist. Clearly alien. Shoot them on sight.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Revener posted:

I don't know what half this poo poo means but it kind of makes me want this game.

This isn't a relaxing game... but you really should try it. For me, it's a rollercoaster of emotions, and that's the appeal of it. If you're not scared of failing and starting over (more bang for your buck, think of it that way), just go straight Classic Ironman and I promise you that you'll get more thrills out of this game than from anything you've ever played before.

This is meant to be a game about fighting against impossible odds and somehow prevailing, and the game employs some magic tricks to fool you into thinking everything is much worse than it appears to be. Veterans know that the game is only over when 8 countries leave the council, but newbies will face their first Terror Mission and they'll get their morale shattered by it, utterly.

It's not an unfair game. Have faith that you'll turn the tables. Also, some people are saying that missions are mostly about just going in and killing aliens, and in a sense that's exactly right, but you have no idea how many cool war stories this game will provide you with. You'll want your friends to start playing it too, just so they can understand what the hell you're talking about.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Foulbrood posted:

Does Slingshot come with any hats, or is that purely in the purview of the Elite Soldier Pack?

I NEED MORE HATS

Hats are the only thing that Slingshot has.

The mission part of it is an abortion, let's hope nothing like this ever defiles XCOM again.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

BTW, during the BAFTA awards Jake Solomon mentioned that news for XCOM were just around the corner, "in around a month, maybe". All we've gotten so far is news from The Bureau. Maybe they're now going to wait a little longer to announce anything for XCOM:EU in fear of completely dwarfing 2K's version again?

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Synnr posted:

So I'm downloading now, but I saw a post somewhere that was an explanation of how to get I guess the most money in your first month? Any idea what page that was on? I can't find it for the life of me.

I'm sure a goon will be able to help you with that, and I know you haven't asked for any opinion in particular, but if I were you, I'd play the game for the first time as "authentically" as possible, soaking up the atmosphere and having fun with the learning process.

On Ironman Classic, of course.

The game's too good not to experience it on its fullest.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Synnr posted:

So play it like dwarf fortress!

Also avoid all spoilers. Try to discover everything on your own. Read all the research texts.

I'm excited for you, man. You know nothing about XCOM and you're going to play it for the first time! You have no idea what you're getting yourself into.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Qwo posted:

The older version looked way, way cooler and unique. Thanks, internet whinebags! Just what we needed: another generic Third Person Shooter!

To be fair, the whinebags got exactly what they wanted: XCOM:EU. If 2K doesn't have a clue of what to do with the XCOM brand, that's their problem. Jake Solomon seems to know exactly what to do to satisfy his target audience (minus the fetid Slingshot DLC).

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

You may be the only one that liked the black goo aliens. Well, not the only one, I've seen others. But that stuff was met with such a massive negative backlash that they were more or less forced to go back to the drawing board and totally redo things.

I was one of those that were outraged. But then the true XCOM game came along and I couldn't give a drat about the fps. They could have the player fighting against an invasion of giant penises for all I care.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Synnr posted:

Well maybe this evening if I get some work done! I know vaguely about the game series and stuff like "adjacency increases bonuses!" and "don't sprint straight at aliens" from the demo, so expect some one-month-wonders.

You know you're being trolled, right? Ironman Impossible isn't a true XCOM experience, at least not for someone who's never played the game before. It's more like getting your team lined up for execution and watching the world go insane with panic really quickly while you're broke and can't do anything.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Muscle Tracer posted:

I dunno, it depends on how things unfold. I can definitely see endings like "everyone dies" or "these aliens, while guided by the same force, are totally different from these new ones," or "it all got lost in a vault, Indiana Jones style."

On the other hand, a satisfying ending that also maintains continuity, though, is not something I've been able to think of, much as I want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I don't expect a retconned crappy game with no clear vision to actually fit in with anything, so it's just something to ignore, like "My Girl 2". Really, having Sectoids and Mutons in it isn't enough to make it a real XCOM game. 2K just wants to cash in with the XCOM brand, that's all there is to it. Hopefully the game is good for those interested in it, but my only hope is that 2K doesn't force its retconned crap up XCOM:EU's metaphorical butt and manages to tarnish Solomon's work.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Synnr posted:

I dunno man, I had the vague impression the point of the previous games was to have that happen and fight it out. No way for me to tell!

Classic Ironman is fair. You have exactly the right mindset for it, "fight it out". Just trust us on this one.

I hope you spend a lot of time customizing your soldiers and growing really attached to them.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I say start out on normal to learn the ropes and when you start to feel comfortable, up it to Classic.

edit: Also, don't play on Ironman until you're appropriately experienced and want pain. Unfortunately, the game is extremely buggy, and most ironman games can't be finished because of bugs loving you over. Instead, play off ironman and just be honest with yourself about not reloading missed shots or dead soldiers.

I agree with this, maybe committing yourself to never load the game if you get screwed and it's your fault could be the best course of action.

But I maintain the recommendation to play on Classic. Dr. Video Games 0031 seems to be a very nice individual who cares a lot for your well-being. That's really cool. But I defend the thesis that the true XCOM experience should make you swear in despair, and actually fear to make your move.

My girlfriend had to stop playing it because she was too afraid to WALK FORWARD with her soldiers after a couple of very tense missions.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Super Space Jam 64 posted:

I'd been slowly chipping away at a normal difficulty savescumming playthrough of XCOM for the last few months, but reading some of the stories in this thread inspired me to go balls deep and try ironman mode on classic. I've never completed this game let alone played any XCOM game prior to this, but I have to say it's a hell of a lot more fun to take tons of casualties each mission and still struggle through than it ever was loading and reloading and reloading whenever anyone died at all.

I doubt I'll survive to the end -- I actually failed the second abduction mission -- but it's loads more fun and I'm starting to feel hooked again.

drat I love to read testimonials like this one here. I have a friend who loves the game to death, but he savescummed his way to victory in Classic difficulty. His stories always involve something tragic happening "and then he had to reload". He has no idea how much more fun he'd have with the game if he had to wrestle with the consequences of his decisions.

Congratulations for your courage, sir. As a reward, you're now playing a much better game.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Muscle Tracer posted:

It's less about whether it's hypothetically possible to win, and more about whether you're going to give up in frustration, boredom, or seeing the narrative you've constructed die, especially as a new player.

I know what you mean, but you know what? I'm glad XCOM is an actual game, and not just a toy. Many games that come out nowadays are not actually games, you know you'll eventually win. You don't reach the Game Over screen, you just restart at your last checkpoint.

Saints Row 3 was really fun, I had a blast with that game. But there was nothing really tense about it. No high stakes. The zombie mission was kinda hard, but I knew eventually I'd get through.

I just love that XCOM respects you as his opponent, enough to actually want to defeat you (Classic and above). And it's not unfair like Dark Souls, it's really a very fair game. New players will be defeated and get better at it, and then they'll prevail because they're now better at the game. But the thing is, because defeat is POSSIBLE, XCOM creates a tension that I don't see in other games nowadays. And that's where a lot of the thrill comes from, imho.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Muscle Tracer posted:

I agree, and that's why I keep playing the game. But I feel like that's a thrill for veterans, not for newbies who just want to see what the heck that "alien base" is about, but they haven't gotten there because the folks on Something Awful Dot Com suggested that they both avoid all guides and also start on classic ironman, which is a combination that's gonna be mighty frustrating.

Isn't it amazing to find out on your own, though? That's how you and I did it, right? I played the original (my favorite game ever) a lot, and the new version has some plot twists that the original didn't have. I remember my experience with the original, and reading all the research files in order to try to understand what was going on and decide what I should research next. It was absolutely amazing, what other game has that?

In the new XCOM, it's in a way simpler to figure things out. Just follow the "priority" research and eventually you'll get there. In the old game, it was a matter of scanning the globe in search for the base(s). In the new one, though, you have to perform some specific, dangerous tasks in order to get there.

I mean, we agree with each other pretty much, it's just that to me, I like the horrible tension that this game creates. My emotional bond with XCOM, both the original and the new, was forged in fear and pain. But once you get good at the game... boy, the way you LOVE this game, the way you begin to love even the aliens (yeah, I love even the Thin Men, I think it's a brilliant design. And the Ethereals, drat! I hope we'll see more of them in the future, they're just too good!)... I think the "true" experience of facing the game on Ironman is just too good, it's just worth it.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Muscle Tracer posted:

Yes. I also started on normal, and savescummed my way to completion the first time after making many, many terrible mistakes. I did not start on Ironman Classic, which is what I'm actually against here. I'm a huge proponent of blind runs, but not the "harder is better" mindset that dominates this thread.

Yeah, I don't believe "harder is better" either. I just believe Classic Ironman feels just right. Agree to disagree, I guess. I like the thrills that come from the high stakes and the sense of hopelessness. Actually, I wish I could feel it again with the game, my first experience with it was the best, status black on my first terror mission and all.

That said, I do believe the game employs some "tricks" to fool you into thinking things are much worse than they actually are. The game only ends if 8 countries leave the council, but most people restart the game before the game over screen. And many people have finished the game with 7 countries having left the council.

My personal experience: I had 2 status black missions in my own playthrough and other near-wipes. My memorial wall was depressing. It had majors, captains, it was horrible. I don't remember how many countries left the project, maybe 3 or 4. Somehow, though, it's still winnable in those conditions. It was one hell of a ride.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

RentCavalier posted:

This is insane, this game is insane.

(...)

From then on, it was just one after another. I ended up having to clear four battles in a row before I finally had more than a week of time to research and develop things. It was nuts--we went from being on full systems green to running on absolute vapors, but somehow, I managed only to lose maybe one or two soldiers total...after reloading once.

Beautiful. Still second month, right? Third month is gonna be cool as well.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Sloober posted:

60 HP sectos gives you a huge reason to get shredder rockets! That skill as a whole is not very useful so it would definately bring it up to par.

I actually love shredder rockets simply because it can be used to destroy cover. Like any explosive, really. But another rocket, I don't even care if it does less damage, it's worth it just because you can expose aliens with it.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Brainamp posted:

Suppression can do the same and pin whoever you hit, especially with laser and plasma cannons. Shredder is sort of like the grenade in that it just does not scale as other things do.

Wait, but does suppression ALWAYS destroy cover?

And explosives also destroy cover in an area, so that can expose multiple aliens. Not arguing against suppression, though, as I always have at least 2 in my team with that ability (usually 1 support).

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Fledgling Gulps posted:

Second attempt at classic ironman. Did ok at first until I lost a good heavy and support on an abduction due to a rocket mis-click. Luckily the reward for the mission was another heavy anyway. Next mission was a landed UFO, lost everyone but my assault (including the new heavy :sigh:) almost immediately. Through a series of lucky overwatches the assault killed the last half dozen aliens himself and cleared the UFO. Very difficult abduction next, squad wipe. gently caress. 3 rookies left in the barracks, terror in Novgorod. gently caress. Military base. gently caress. Actually did ok at the front gate but got wrecked amongst the tanks. Think I'm ready to call this one.

Try building some SHIVs in the Foundry and toughing it out with Rookies.

Almost no one I know has actually seen the Game Over screen of XCOM. Most people just quit before that happens.

Remember though, some people have won the game with 7 countries leaving the Council. Maybe you'll be one of those guys with a kickass story to tell?

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Muscle Tracer posted:

The thing about XCOM:EU is that the consequences are extremely vague. You lose and the Council gets mind-controlled, but what does that mean? XCOM continues and fights humans now too in a civil war? Humanity half-ascends and there's a purestrain rebellion later? Who knows!

They're not that vague...

See, the Ethereals are NOT invading Earth. Dr. Vahlen and Dr. Shen, they both suspect that from the start of the game. They're just looking for the Gift, nothing more. They could have done it behind the shadows, but apparently they give absolutely zero fucks about humans and see us as cattle, so why even bother?

When a country leaves the Council, it gets infiltrated, just like in the original UFO:EU. Just read the news at the situation room, it's there.

So, about the bad ending. What happens is:

A) If the Ethereals find the Gift: their search is over, new bodies for everyone, brothers of the collective hive mind!
B) If the Gift is NOT found: welp, another fruitless endeavor. Enslave this race like the others and lets genetically twist them into fighters for our cause. The search continues.


The irony about XCOM's story is that the Ethereals' enemy actually PRESENTS them with a gifted human in the final act, we actually send (at least) one specimen to their very Temple Ship. Sure, they don't get to keep the specimen in the end, but if there are more Ethereals out there in the universe... now they KNOW.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Muscle Tracer posted:

Yes, obviously. I'm saying that, while that be the ultimate endgame for the etherals, the fact that the council has been infiltrated and XCOM has run out of funding and psi-empowered and regular humans alike are being enslaved is a much more interesting scenario to start at than "we did it before, and we can do it again."

We know exactly what happens when we win: we rebuild, they (or something similar) come back. There're a lot more potential story arcs if you fail.

I certainly agree with you and, actually, that can happen even if you win.

Just picture this: if the Ethereals were NOT invading before... and now they know the planet is full of potentially gifted humans... and now they know where the XCOM base is located because they've looked inside The Volunteer's mind (when you stare at the abyss, the abyss also stares at you)... well, do the math.

That could be the starting point of the expansion, couldn't it?

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Fister Roboto posted:

Does anyone else play with house rules, like no more than one officer on each mission, and colonels have to stay home or get retired? I do because it kind of feels silly to have six colonels running around on the ground. I guess I could use an editor to change the rank titles for ~*immersion*~, but this adds a little more challenge to it as well.

I agree with Brainamp, 6 colonels is really badass. But I also always give colonels long holidays as soon as they reach that title. They then get saved for psionic probing and the final mission.

No colonels on the field until the final mission.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Ernie Muppari posted:

In my headcanon the hivemind's quest to find the perfect species is continuously and tragironically thwarted by their own heavy handed and callous methods rather than any failings inherent to the species they encounter.

That's actually very funny and poetic.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Fintilgin posted:

I'm actually hoping we get a full Firaxis style expansion like Beyond the Sword or Gods and Kings, which is to say it doesn't necessarily continue the story or whatever, but expands, rebalances, and refines the entire game. So lots more maps, a slightly easier start, harder late game, more aliens, general polish and tweaks, etc etc.

I'm actually hoping for a difficulty between Classic and Impossible. Impossible seems unrealistic (a sectoid surviving a grenade?!) so I just tweak my Classic Ironmans with some Second Wave options.

But you know what else I'd like to see, along with more maps, tweaks and bug fixes?

Cydonia. Complete with a 2-level mission in which choosing helmets is mandatory and very weird, alien vegetation is some areas of the map.

Oh yeah, and you know what? I'd also love the return of post-autopsy pictures of the findings for the Ufopaedia.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

S.J. posted:

Enemy variety? One of the things that people typically complain about? There's nothing to say they couldn't have been given some additional abilities, and a more advanced version of them as the game progresses. Plus they look loving sweet.

It's funny that you mention enemy variety. There is, in a way, more enemy variety in this remake than in the original. Of course, someone could also argue that in the original, the whole alien hierarchy, with even medics and engineers, added to the variety. Nothing like interrogating 3 sectoids and coming up with different results, depending on their jobs. That's something I truly miss from the original.

Let's hope the expansion adds lots of new and old mechanics to the game, along with new enemies. I love the new XCOM to death, but sometimes I wish it was a deeper game. Now that Firaxis has tested the water and found it inviting, maybe they'll add layers of complexity to it, like they do with the Civ games. If we're lucky, we may even see a better Geoscape and aerial battle in the future. I just played a bit of OpenXcom a while ago, and boy, the new Geoscape is just ridiculously dumbed down.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Coolguye posted:

I miss the flavorful UFOpaedia entries for sure. It would be nice to get specifics on things like alien culture or food from interrogations after the first one. But that said, I certainly don't miss having to make educated guesses as to when I have a Leader or a Commander on my hands, that was really obnoxious.

Speak for yourself, dude. I think it was utter genius. You got to use another piece of alien technology against them (mind probe) and suddenly you were abducting their leaders. Also, with the use of Stun Bombs, you could invade bases and just mass capture the whole command centers. Not a difficult thing to do at all. The new XCOM just simplified it and I'm not saying the new game could fit hierarchy-smart abduction missions (maybe it even could), but my opinion of it is that it was awesome. And drat satisfying, too, to leave an alien base with a bunch of alien leaders captured.

Andre Banzai fucked around with this message at 14:46 on May 23, 2013

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Goodbye Lieutenant Olga "Smokey" Popova, my second highest ranked Heavy specialist and part of my A-Team. She was targeted by an angry Muton that jumped from behind a corner and scored a clean hit against her, instantly killing her.

I just stared at the screen for minutes, loving upset at the whole thing. I'm kind of a veteran in this game, I've finished Classic Ironman, but this death was just so out of nowhere that it hit me like a ton of bricks.

That's XCOM. It may seem like I'm complaining, but I'm not. I'm just sharing. This game is awesome!

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

On a side note:


Garth DeAngelis asked on Twitter what we were playing last weekend.

To which I responded directly to him with the most obvious answer available, but also asking if there were "any new threats in the horizon".

He replied yesterday: "the forecast is murky but ominous".


I get unreasonably excited with the tiniest hints of future content for XCOM, it's ridiculous.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Broose posted:

I tried to play this game again. Last time I touched it was about a week after release. I never beat it, I think I got bogged down trying to clear supply ships and then just kinda forgot about it. I've found that I just don't have the luck for this game. First mission, I activate group and fall back to full cover. Immediately get one shotted from across the (small) map.

It's like Murphy had materialized to deliver a swift kick to the balls himself. All I can do is throw my hands up in defeat.

Broose, listen. This is XCOM. Seriously. There is NOTHING out of the ordinary in what you're reporting here. Getting instantly killed by an alien all the way across the map is not unusual at all. Casualties happen. They happen a lot, really.

The beauty of this game lies in taking a deep breath and pushing forward regardless of your luck. Do it and then report back with your stories. Remember, defeat only happens when 8 council members leave the project. The game doesn't end with a status black. The game doesn't end if you run out of soldiers and are left with rookies. The game doesn't end if 7 countries leave the project.

You're very far from defeat, from what you're saying. This is XCOM, remember this.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Lewd Mangabey posted:

In fact, I think that most people agree that it's the feeling of panic and stress in the first half of the game that's most rewarding, and that the second half is a bit lackluster in comparison. Savescumming in the first, tough half robs you of that feeling of accomplishment for no real reward later on.

Unless, of course, right after assaulting the base on Classic Ironman, you get a landed large scout, send a great team to the mission and get 6 Mutons and Cyberdisk + drones teleport all at once in front of you, and in the process of attempting to flee the ambush, get your entire team killed (including one Sniper Colonel), except for one single Sniper, who magically manages to escape after enduring a plasma shot in the back.

In that case, when you come back to the base and notice that you now only have 3 ranked soldiers and a bunch of Rookies as your team for the second half of the game... and you've ticked "More Than Human" and "The Greater Good" in the Second Wave options... well, that adds a lot of drama to the game, let me tell you.

I'm pushing forward though. Three missions later, I have now captured a Sectoid Commander and am building a Psionic Lab. SHIVs are absolutely incredible. Advancing a kamikaze unit right in the face of the aliens and shooting at them point blank seems to completely ruin their tactics. It's awesome to train Rookies, too, really helpful.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Fargin Icehole posted:

I take it this is normal?

Hahahaha yeah, it's part of the learning process. I hope you're having a good time.

Seriously though, I suspect you're starting to understand that, just like Poker, this isn't really a game of gambling. You have to consciously play the battlefield in a way that will tip the scales on your favor.

What message is a 34% shot telling you? It says "this is a bad choice, rethink your positioning". You shouldn't think "let's gamble" all the time. Sure, there are some times where there's nothing you can do but roll the dice, but it's your job to limit those situations to a minimum.

Also, since you're now playing Classic, adopt the following mindset: "eliminate aliens with extreme prejudice". That means launching a rocket to eliminate 2 Thin Men, even in the beginning of the mission. You'll notice Thin Men are absolutely nasty on Classic. Also, use grenades to destroy their cover.

Also, look for Beaglerush's videos on Youtube. He's a great teacher and you'll laugh a lot too.

Good luck and have fun with your descent into despair!

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

Fister Roboto posted:

This is the best advice for classic or impossible. Personally, I always tell myself "every alien that can see me is a potential dead agent."

Exactly this. Especially when you start playing Ironman, you start to see the reality of this really quickly. I'm always amused by the horror stories of friends that defend that XCOM isn't "that hard" while playing on Regular Normal, and then make the jump to Classic Ironman.

Suddenly, "Thin Men are bullshit, dude!!!!!"

Oh yeah, Fargin Icehole, also: build Alloy SHIVs and USE THEM. They are awesome.

Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

ChronoReverse posted:

The most amusing thing is that Classic really isn't that hard either. But if you're used to the helps Normal gives you then when the playing field is leveled it feels unfair (when it's still ridiculously unfair in favour of the player).

Hahahahaha please explain. I think I know where you're coming from, but I'd like to know what your thoughts are anyway. And in your opinion, is Impossible fair?

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Andre Banzai
Jan 2, 2012

ChronoReverse posted:

I don't feel Impossible is fair. It's just... possible.


As for Classic, the reason I say it's still stacked in your favor is because when you think about it, you're always dependent on a small squad killing a much more numerous force of aliens. And the expectation is that you don't lose (very many) soldiers.

You have most of the edges; aside from bugs, you can generally win most of the engagements in every stage of the game simply because you're smarter.

Think about it, in the very first mission, you get 4x 100% guaranteed kills in the form of grenades against 3HP Sectoid. Even in a pure firefight, probably one of the worse things you can do, you still have good odds of coming out on top (i.e., finishing the mission) against the remaining Sectoids. Of course, our standards are higher than that but we can almost completely mitigate the alien advantages in the first mission with careful play.

In my point of view, Impossible is unfair. But I'm not complaining, it's the whole point, so yeah. Nothing to discuss here.

Classic, I defend that yeah, for the most part it's unfair for the aliens. But I'm not talking about the Battlescape here. Battlescape in the beginning of the game can be unfair to them (Sectoids with plasma pistols is pretty dumb, they should use Light Plasma from the get go) since we have grenades, I agree. I also think that in the beginning of the game, it should be balanced for more Status Black missions. But on the whole, I think it's a pretty fair game... it only feels unfair because we don't REALLY suck at the game anymore. But I've seen beginners try their hand at Classic, and they get rocked really hard by the aliens.

But I think the worst thing for the aliens, in terms of balance, is the Geoscape. It's a really hard game for them, if you think about it. They should have more tools to employ against us, especially in the second half of the game. Once you build enough satellites, you wreck their chances in the Geoscape pretty royally. Post alien base invasion, there's not much they can do, their only real chance is to really gently caress you up in Terror Missions. Other than that... unless you really suck at the research metagame, eventually you'll research a Plasma Rifle...

I really, really hope that they are preparing an expansion for us that'll bring us real terror, from start to finish. In the Geoscape, I mean. They really need to make the game easier for the aliens in the Geoscape, imho. It's where I think it's really unfair to them.

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