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  03/11/13 Part 5 [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] I take a very, very long time to beat a boss that isn't very difficult. Bonus: We're Still Playing Sonic 4: Episode II For Some Reason [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] We spend another 20 minutes not talking about Sonic, as we do. Mostly discussion of future Mario LP. ---------------------- People didn't like Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I. Too slow, too easy, too short, too... D, I guess? The reaction was loud and one-sided, if you don't count fringe lunatic sonic fans. You might wonder why they bothered making a second one at all. The answer is simple: Sonic 4: Episode I sold A MILLION BAJILLION COPIES!! So, they were definitely going to make a second one. But rather than just churning it out in six months or something, as the word 'episode' might imply, Sonic 4: Episode II was in development for a full 18 months, apparently in some kind of attempt to make people not hate this one. The devs claimed they were "addressing all of the fans' issues with original," but was it true? Was it even possible? Let's find out. Oh, and this is a sequel to Sonic CD. I guess I forgot to mention that because it's total bullshit. LET'S GOOOOO!!  Reminder: Source downloads will only work for non-IE/Google/Mozilla browers, such as Opera. This is the Part 1 [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] Part 2 [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] Part Metal [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] Part 3 [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] Part 4 [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] Part 5 [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] I take a very, very long time to beat a boss that isn't very difficult. Bonus: We're Still Playing Sonic 4: Episode II For Some Reason [Youtube][Blip/Polsy] We spend another 20 minutes not talking about Sonic, as we do. Mostly discussion of future Mario LP. 19LettersLong fucked around with this message at Mar 14, 2013 around 00:07 |
| # ? Jan 20, 2013 21:27 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 18:24 |
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Awwwwww yes! More of you two bickering over video games  On another note, I heard you guys did a 24hour live stream recently and was wondering how much you guys raised in the end?
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 22:04 |
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19LettersLong posted:Reminder: Source downloads will only work for non-IE/Google/Mozilla browers, such as Opera. This is the You can download the source in Firefox if you do it from the rss feed.
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 22:04 |
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The physics aren't perfect, but they're way better than in episode 1. The big problem with episode 2 is that the levels are really not fun to play, and the Tails bullshit sucks.
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 22:12 |
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Chaostime posted:Awwwwww yes! More of you two bickering over video games
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 22:13 |
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Wow, this game really does not look fun. The addition of Tails moves looks plain old clumsy and awkwardly forced, and that boss was terrible. Also, am I the only one getting the feeling that the three levels were going on way too long for Zone 1 of a Sonic game?
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 22:37 |
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Who approved that 30 second loop of boss music? That is just headache inducing. And between this boss and the other one you fought on the stream, something looks really off about the boss fights in this game. Like it's really obvious what you need to do and there's not any significant challenge to dodging the attacks or scoring a hit, but the time between hits felt unnecessarily drawn out. I can't really quantify how that's different from some classic Sonic bosses, but it looked way worse here.
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 22:50 |
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Another Person posted:Wow, this game really does not look fun. The addition of Tails moves looks plain old clumsy and awkwardly forced, and that boss was terrible. Also, am I the only one getting the feeling that the three levels were going on way too long for Zone 1 of a Sonic game? The levels are a bit long, but there's only four of them so they kind of need to be.
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 23:17 |
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One thing that feels awkward about Sonic 4 is that everything feels too close to the camera. It's probably just a reflection of the level design, as I think Sonic 1-Knucks have that same ration of Sonic-to-screen. It feels way more claustrophobic to me than "old-school" Sonic, though, and I'm not really sure why.
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 23:24 |
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19LettersLong posted:The levels are a bit long, but there's only four of them so they kind of need to be. Aaaaah, yeah, I forgot that. I guess that is a reasonable excuse for the length, even if as you guys said, they are not very creative levels, drawing totally from Sonic 2. Sega really needs to hand off the franchise to another developer, who needs to approach it as though it were the first Sonic game and previous installments did not exist. The franchise is so stale that it is growing little mushrooms from mold all over. That approach should make it so that it doesn't have to constantly stand in the shadow of Sonic 2 and 3, with expectations of meeting them.
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 23:33 |
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You guys say that that level's like Aquatic Ruin, but I'm also getting a Marble Gardens feel to it. Of course all that means is that they're just saying "Remember Sonic 3" as well.
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 23:38 |
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Another Person posted:Sega really needs to hand off the franchise to another developer, who needs to approach it as though it were the first Sonic game and previous installments did not exist. The franchise is so stale that it is growing little mushrooms from mold all over. That approach should make it so that it doesn't have to constantly stand in the shadow of Sonic 2 and 3, with expectations of meeting them.
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| # ? Jan 20, 2013 23:43 |
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Another Person posted:Aaaaah, yeah, I forgot that. I guess that is a reasonable excuse for the length, even if as you guys said, they are not very creative levels, drawing totally from Sonic 2. Basically what I'm saying is that they should do more of their own stuff, yes. In fact, I've always liked DIMPS games. I think Colours on DS is great, for example, and I also like Rush. They're not perfect, but to me, far more enjoyable than classic Sonic. So take all that with a grain of salt  .
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 00:34 |
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Somethingdumb posted:I feel like Colors was approached that way and even though Generations wasn't, it at least did the 'copying old sonic games' thing more interestingly and successfully than they'd ever done it before. I'm not a big fan of old Sonic games not having grown up with them and all (I deliberately chose to be uncool and asked for an SNES rather than a Genesis despite my father's suggestions, I still feel I got the better end of the deal). Fuckin' love the new "Unleashed Day Stage" style of Sonic gameplay, though, even with a keyboard on Generations PC.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 01:16 |
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, that's why.
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As one of the few people who agrees with Kyle's controversial opinion on Sonic 4 Episode 1, I've been really looking forward to this, and I'm already disappointed with how terrible this game appears to be. The levels look mostly okay so far, but the bosses seem designed to make the game unplayable. That pile of trash Keith fought during the marathon was an atrocity of poor design beyond my ability to describe. Glad you guys are taking this bullet for me!
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 02:10 |
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It does look like they improved on the physics, and by that I mean made the physics more like the 20-year-old game they're trying to emulate. Shame absolutely nothing else about this looks interesting. As a minor critique on the LP itself, I'm noticing you guy's frame rate seems a little low for this one. I almost never bring up technical qualms in an LP, but a game this fast really demands to be seen in a high framerate.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 02:20 |
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Somethingdumb posted:I feel like Colors was approached that way and even though Generations wasn't, it at least did the 'copying old sonic games' thing more interestingly and successfully than they'd ever done it before. Namtab posted:You guys say that that level's like Aquatic Ruin, but I'm also getting a Marble Gardens feel to it. Of course all that means is that they're just saying "Remember Sonic 3" as well. Rocketlex posted:As a minor critique on the LP itself, I'm noticing you guy's frame rate seems a little low for this one. I almost never bring up technical qualms in an LP, but a game this fast really demands to be seen in a high framerate. 19LettersLong fucked around with this message at Jan 21, 2013 around 02:27 |
| # ? Jan 21, 2013 02:24 |
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Looking forward to another fun LP!
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 02:25 |
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I didn't have much of a problem with this game, but I didn't really enjoy it either. I think that sums up both episodes of Sonic 4 pretty succinctly: overwhelmingly mediocre.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 02:34 |
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19LettersLong posted:I agree about Colors and would throw in Unleashed as well. For all its flaws, Unleashed's globe-hopping premise helped set it apart from past Sonic games. And if you're watching on YouTube, it's reencoded to 30 anyway. Not that that's big a deal.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 02:40 |
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Simply Simon posted:I'm a sucker for go go fast fast gameplay that flows perfectly, and more homing attack targets faciliate that No, no it really doesn't. What it means is that flow completely stops for a second while you stop and pop off of enemies and obstacles. It's something that's probably necessary for 3D Sonic games, but in 2D you're better off just being able to plow through everything. quote:Could you point a specific part? Because both the game and video are at 60 fps, as far as I know. I didn't notice anything weird, but Youtube and Blip might be unhappy about your videos being 60fps. They probably convert them to 30fps anyway, and maybe that's causing inconsistencies. It's not a good idea to record and encode at 60fps anyway, otherwise you might end up with a bit of a "48fps Hobbit" effect. EDIT: Okay yeah the blip version looks pretty choppy to me. bhlaab fucked around with this message at Jan 21, 2013 around 02:47 |
| # ? Jan 21, 2013 02:45 |
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19LettersLong posted:Could you point a specific part? Because both the game and video are at 60 fps, as far as I know. It was the whole video. I'm perfectly willing to believe the problem was just on my end, though. It just seemed slightly lower than usual.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 02:46 |
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Oh man, you guys really can't stop! Don't stop!  I've only played the iOS version of this game, since I got a free Starbucks download card. Trying to control it with touch buttons is... really not enjoyable. Not at all. My thumb kept just sliding off the phantom d-pad entirely, which is especially bad for GOTTA GO FAST.  Maybe I'm just bad at touch buttons, or maybe it's easier to see what you're doing on an iPad rather than an iPhone, but ugh. Too bad, since it looks great on a retina display.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 03:06 |
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19LettersLong posted:I agree about Colors and would throw in Unleashed as well. For all its flaws, Unleashed's globe-hopping premise helped set it apart from past Sonic games. Speaking of Unleashed, have either of you gone back and played it since the LP? My favorite part of that game was after I finished it and never had to touch the werehog poo poo again. Some of the Sonic levels are pretty fun.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 03:47 |
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Ohhh yeeeaahh more Sonic games. Too bad this one's so drat mediocre, but I still enjoy watching.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 05:47 |
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You know, I kind of rather liked this one. I enjoyed the improved boss fights, I liked the levels, although I agree that a lot of the co-op poo poo is kind of finnicky and there's one bullshit part in oil ocean that can just eat cocks and die, but I mean, this game really isn't all that bad. Looks a lot less boring than Episode 1, which I never played, and for being a 2-D Sonic game with 3-D sensibilities, I thought it was pretty darn good.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 06:13 |
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I didn't even know this was out... I am a bad sonic fan. When was it released?
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 07:50 |
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bhlaab posted:No, no it really doesn't. What it means is that flow completely stops for a second while you stop and pop off of enemies and obstacles. It's something that's probably necessary for 3D Sonic games, but in 2D you're better off just being able to plow through everything.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 13:21 |
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Rocketlex posted:It was the whole video. I'm perfectly willing to believe the problem was just on my end, though. It just seemed slightly lower than usual. Gensuki posted:I didn't even know this was out... I am a bad sonic fan. Vargs posted:Speaking of Unleashed, have either of you gone back and played it since the LP? My favorite part of that game was after I finished it and never had to touch the werehog poo poo again. Some of the Sonic levels are pretty fun. Devious Vacuum posted:Looking forward to another fun LP! bhlaab posted:No, no it really doesn't. What it means is that flow completely stops for a second while you stop and pop off of enemies and obstacles. It's something that's probably necessary for 3D Sonic games, but in 2D you're better off just being able to plow through everything.
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| # ? Jan 21, 2013 22:21 |
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Simply Simon posted:Yeah, I mean there are parts where it doesn't work at all. For example those walls that take three homing attacks to destroy. Though I think you were meant to partner-spin through there...anyway, of course it needs to be well designed. But I think homing attacking a chain of enemies is great fun. Yes, you're just pressing a single button. So what? Compare to Donkey Kong Country 2, one of the best platformers ever made. Many, many passages where you hop from enemy to enemy by just holding right. Cannon segments where immediately firing is the best option. That's also fantastic! Key point for me is that even though Sonic doesn't move all that much horizontally, you're fundamentally doing poo poo. It's non-stop action because you have to keep pressing buttons. Waiting on a moving platform, for example, is anything but that - and flowbreaking. I love DKC 2 as much as the next sane individual, but in practice Sonic 4's homing attack is unreliable, "mushy" feeling, and slow. In the old games enemies were there to plow through, either by rolling through or bouncing off of. Comparatively, Sonic 4 is very stop-and-pop. To keep the DKC thing going, it's a bit like every enemy acts like its own barrel cannon and you never get that feeling of flow because it's largely automated anyway. But you know what, it's far from this game's biggest problem. The levels are too long and really boring and filled with instant death traps. So I guess it's really Sonic Advance 4.
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| # ? Jan 22, 2013 01:44 |
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Another Person posted:Aaaaah, yeah, I forgot that. I guess that is a reasonable excuse for the length, even if as you guys said, they are not very creative levels, drawing totally from Sonic 2. Sega really needs to hand off the franchise to another developer, who needs to approach it as though it were the first Sonic game and previous installments did not exist. The franchise is so stale that it is growing little mushrooms from mold all over. That approach should make it so that it doesn't have to constantly stand in the shadow of Sonic 2 and 3, with expectations of meeting them. What is anyone supposed to do with the formula, though? They've tried plenty of different approaches and people hated pretty much all of them, except for Generations and maybe Colours. You either have fun playing a platformer where you mostly run right or you don't at this point.
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| # ? Jan 22, 2013 03:20 |
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Goddamn it you missed a whole bunch of things the first time around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgQ8RJt5d8 (Then again, this video might've missed the portable version of Unattached, I can't tell.)
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| # ? Jan 22, 2013 04:04 |
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Yeah guys, go back and do it again. This time do it right. 
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| # ? Jan 22, 2013 05:20 |
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Law posted:Yeah guys, go back and do it again. This time do it right. Get me Dimps on the line - so I can tell them that thing you just said.
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| # ? Jan 22, 2013 05:24 |
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I'd never even heard of Sonic Eraser, but seeing Sonic punch another Sonic is awesome. Also, the Pico and Leapfrog games were hilarious.
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| # ? Jan 22, 2013 17:58 |
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quakster posted:Goddamn it you missed a whole bunch of things the first time around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgQ8RJt5d8 1) Commenters in my Sonic threads don't have my best interest at heart. 2) That song from Sonic Unleashed was great. 3) I need a Leapster. Also, there was no portable version of Unleashed.
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| # ? Jan 23, 2013 07:27 |
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19LettersLong posted:Also, there was no portable version of Unleashed. There was an iOS version, I think.
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| # ? Jan 23, 2013 17:34 |
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There's a weird-rear end mobile version (maybe Java?) of Sonic Unleashed, released only in Europe/Australia/NZ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hToyP7sby_U That werehog transformation animation is hilarious. Gameloft's website doesn't have any info on it, but it does list "Sexy" as a game genre, so they're awesome in my book.
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| # ? Jan 23, 2013 21:37 |
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Oh my god, I thought I had hallucinated that because I saw it exactly once years ago and no one ever talked about it again. That's ridiculous. Though side-scrolling werehog is probably better than poor man's God of War werehog.
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| # ? Jan 23, 2013 21:43 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 18:24 |
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Oh dear, I didn't even think that they made mobile games in that aspect ratio anymore - especially as it's a Sonic game. If I can hunt down any phones that are old enough to have it I'll be sure to let you know how appalling it is. e: It's really, really bad. Widdiful fucked around with this message at Jan 24, 2013 around 16:15 |
| # ? Jan 23, 2013 23:02 |
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