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Title says it all: Can a team get Young and worse at the same time? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Yes |
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119 | 70.83% |
| yes |
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49 | 29.17% |
| Total: | 168 votes | ||
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 Pitchers and Catchers report February 11TH Thread Links Previous thread MLB Newbie Megathread Baseball card and memorabilia thread Baseball GIF thread Hot Stove Thread Proxy info in the Goldmined N/V thread Predictions thread (requires archives) Offseason Planning Thread 2013 Minor League Thread External Links http://www.designatedhits.com/ - Walk up songs http://www.sportsclubstats.com/MLB.html - Playoff odds http://www.coolstandings.com/baseba...asp?sn=2012&i=1 Another playoff odds site http://brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/zoneTrack.php Pitch tracking http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/ http://soundcloud.com/gibbstack/ichiros-theme - Ichiro's theme A cool goon project: http://yourprospectsucks.tumblr.com/ (please don't die YPS) Dates: FEBRUARY 4-20 Salary arbitration hearings held (if necessary) FEBRUARY 11 Voluntary Spring Training report date for pitchers, catchers and injured players FEBRUARY 15 Voluntary date on which all non-World Baseball Classic position players may be invited to Spring Training FEBRUARY 20 Mandatory date by which all non-World Baseball Classic players must report e:  MLB.tv thread e^2:  Spring Training GDT
kensei fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2013 around 17:30 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 05:22 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 21:20 |
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gently caress Mark Grace
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 05:27 |
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Answer: Yes. Phillies  Pirates 1993-2010 Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2013 around 05:36 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 05:28 |
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Aaron Gleeman made a few "Baseball players as TV shows" comparisons on twitter a few hours ago. I thought they were pretty apt.Aaron Gleeman posted:"Law and Order" is Cal Ripken Jr. "Whitney" is Delmon Young. "Freaks and Geeks" is Mark Prior. "The Wire" is Barry Bonds.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 06:08 |
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Pumpkin McPastry posted:gently caress Mark Grace He used to be one of my favorites. But now, gently caress him. Seriously, don't drink and drive. Ever.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 06:10 |
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quote:Dates: Hurry up you bastards I long for my summer of journeyman pitching and cake eating. Twins 2013: This Year We Actually Have a Player Made out of Duct Tape and Baling Wire (alternatively: Which of Our Pitchers Will Be with the Padres in August?)
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 06:22 |
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I am ready to watch the Rise and Fall of Gritty Dirtball in Arizona. 
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 06:25 |
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Cabbit posted:I am ready to watch the Rise and Fall of Gritty Dirtball in Arizona. I plan on going to several Dbacks games this year, and I assume that under the iron fist of Towers, their uniforms and hats will never be washed; their cleats will never get changed and their batting helmets will constantly look like they were just involved in the First Battle of Ypres. Also, Chase Field's infield will fall into various states of disrepair, and if a player is injured as a result, he will be told to "walk it off". DBacks Baseball: Old time baseball. (Kirk Gibson should also be player/manager) Gonz fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2013 around 06:41 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 06:32 |
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Gonz posted:I plan on going to several Dbacks games this year, and I assume that under the iron fist of Towers, their uniforms and hats will never be washed; their cleats will never get changed and their batting helmets will constantly look like they were just involved in the First Battle of Ypres. When the Dodgers visit, Mattingly will be required to shave his sideburns before he can present the lineup card.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 06:35 |
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rickiep00h posted:When the Dodgers visit, Mattingly will be required to shave his sideburns before he can present the lineup card. The team will travel by 1970's-era Greyhound motorcoach buses. Also, they will stay in shady motels on the outskirts of town while on the road for games, and their home clubhouse will feature zero air conditioning, zero food, no televisions, 1 toilet, 1 urinal and metal folding chairs to be used for sitting. Each player, when finished with their at-bat, must had their bat to the player who is next in the lineup. One team? ONE BAT. TEAMWORK. If you don't perform hard enough, or gritty enough, you'll be traded to Japan for several players with filthy fingernails and huge beards and yellow teeth who hustle and play the game like it's supposed to be played. Gonz fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2013 around 06:43 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 06:41 |
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All stats will be abolished except AVG, HR, RBI, and WINS. These are the only true metrics, and any other measure of performance is voodoo and pure scouting talent. Anyone bringing up ERA will be reminded of the new policy removing all outfield fences in favor of drunken Red Sox fans. In every city.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 06:53 |
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Abel Wingnut posted:He used to be one of my favorites. But now, gently caress him. I can't tell if he has a legitimate drinking problem or just terrible judgement. Seriously, with the money he's made and having one strike against him already, why the hell would he not take a cab?
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 14:07 |
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tadashi posted:I can't tell if he has a legitimate drinking problem or just terrible judgement. Seriously, with the money he's made and having one strike against him already, why the hell would he not take a cab? Sometimes people don't care. Or are drunk and don't consider the consequences. Having grown up in an environment of alcoholics, logic rarely applies in most situations. That said, it definitely could have been some seriously bad judgement. But unless I were privy to more information, I can't comment on anything about how lovely drunk driving is. It's pretty lovely. If he needs help, hopefully he gets it. If he's just bad at making decisions, let's hope he's smart enough to stay out of those situations in the future.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 14:32 |
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tadashi posted:I can't tell if he has a legitimate drinking problem or just terrible judgement. Seriously, with the money he's made and having one strike against him already, why the hell would he not take a cab? In my experience a person with 2 DUIs has about a 90% chance of being an alcoholic and a 10% chance of just being a dumb or stubborn son of a bitch
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 14:40 |
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:Aaron Gleeman made a few "Baseball players as TV shows" comparisons on twitter a few hours ago. I thought they were pretty apt. I'm not sold on the Kazmir comparison, but it reminded me to look up his BBRef. Jesus christ, he's pitched 1.2 innings since 2011. Hahahha, and he's signed a MiLB deal with Cleveland, so he'll almost certainly make his return this year. Starting with his last year in Tampa (2009), he just straight fell apart. Not that it's surprising, really, he had a 4.1 BB/9 and 10.7 BB% in 723 IP through 2008. I think I remember seeing some simple research on guys with high walk rates and eventual/inevitable/sudden declines, but I can't remember off-hand where.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 16:20 |
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rickiep00h posted:Hurry up you bastards I long for my summer of journeyman pitching and cake eating.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 16:32 |
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uublog posted:I'm not sold on the Kazmir comparison, but it reminded me to look up his BBRef. Jesus christ, he's pitched 1.2 innings since 2011. Hahahha, and he's signed a MiLB deal with Cleveland, so he'll almost certainly make his return this year. Starting with his last year in Tampa (2009), he just straight fell apart. Not that it's surprising, really, he had a 4.1 BB/9 and 10.7 BB% in 723 IP through 2008. I think I remember seeing some simple research on guys with high walk rates and eventual/inevitable/sudden declines, but I can't remember off-hand where. It just makes me incredibly depressed that Party Down didn't continue forever
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 16:49 |
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sweets posted:It just makes me incredibly depressed that Party Down didn't continue forever But if Party Down were still on would we have Ben and Leslie on Parks and Rec? There's no baseball player whose career ended too early, which resulted in another good player becoming elite/near-elite, is there?
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 16:53 |
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JediGandalf posted:Rick Porcello when half of our pitching staff is figuratively and probably even literally dead. No he is not a washed up mid 00s Cardinals pitcher. Get Blooper on the line!
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 17:02 |
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uublog posted:But if Party Down were still on would we have Ben and Leslie on Parks and Rec? There's no baseball player whose career ended too early, which resulted in another good player becoming elite/near-elite, is there? Wally Pipp?
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 17:24 |
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Just went looking for information on the rumored Party Down movie and found this: "Party Down" meets "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF_bjqmUyYY
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 17:40 |
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http://espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=8900693 I'm being trolled here, right? He adds up the WARs and mentions Jack Morris. I have to be getting trolled.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 19:37 |
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867-530-NEIN! posted:http://espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=8900693 That story doesn't load for me.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:00 |
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Here's a good link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8...eplacement-stat I agree with pretty much everything he says outside of the hack Edwin Starr joke. I don't know why some people are throwing a shitfit (well, I do know)
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:07 |
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Groucho Marxist posted:Here's a good link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8...eplacement-stat Well he also linked to bleacher report
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:15 |
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I read that earlier today and he's actually right. WAR is being used all over the place and it's pretty broken which is his point. I think people are taking it to mean RAW NO SABERMETRICS RAH but really he's just pointing out the inherent problems with the defensive component behind WAR and the difficulty in computing it nor do we even know if those defensive metrics are correct. Actually spent some time this year looking over advanced stats and I still have no loving clue on defensive stuff, but I do finally get xFIP and wOBA so you know go me?
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:15 |
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Groucho Marxist posted:Here's a good link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8...eplacement-stat quote:If we can't figure a stat out on our own, then how do we verify whether it is accurate?  Other points he makes make sense, including how the way defense can inflate a player's WAR is a little surprising.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:16 |
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You are reading that as "too dumb to figure it out" but I think what he's trying to say there is "we don't know how to compute it because the defensive metrics behind it are complex/not well developed/are still in their infancy"
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:18 |
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adaz posted:You are reading that as "too dumb to figure it out" but I think what he's trying to say there is "we don't know how to compute it because the defensive metrics behind it are complex/not well developed/are still in their infancy" I read it as "it's not possible for even a smart fan to calculate/verify, so how do we know it's verifiable" because of the way he leads up to it: quote:.Almost no one knows how to calculate WAR. I'm not just talking about curmudgeons who have trouble figuring out a batting average with a calculator (oh, for the glorious days of the Ready Reckoner!). Smart fans who really know their stats and their baseball (as well as being clever enough to work those new-fangled "universal" TV remotes) can't calculate it. Just the baseball-reference.com WAR explanatory page is more than 1,500 words, including several paragraphs explaining how the formula has changed (but not including the list of the players who were helped and hurt the most by those changes). I think most people in this thread would agree with his conclusion that citing only WAR when comparing players might not always be the best final measurement. It's like he's asking the right general questions about WAR but when he fleshes them out, he goes in some wrong directions, like assuming past WAR was the ultimate argument against the Upton-Prado trade. I don't think even people who are starting to try to embrace WAR understand that advanced stats are works in progress and you can't just assume that someone like Dave Cameron or internet posters are the best representatives to describe how to use it. tadashi fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2013 around 20:31 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:28 |
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"Let me write a full-length article about statistics I can't bother to learn how to calculate." If 1500 words is the upper limit of useful instruction, dude must be rich from never buying a book ever. Edit: I know next to nothing about baseball. You all know that. But I'm really starting to get annoyed at Jim Caple. Is this a normal part of SAS development? rickiep00h fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2013 around 20:47 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:44 |
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JediGandalf posted:Rick Porcello when half of our pitching staff is figuratively and probably even literally dead. when was porcello traded to the Twins 
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 20:48 |
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The Baseball Today podcast is ending next week... Buster Olney will be starting a Baseball Tonight podcast that will include a bunch of regulars from the TV show, but Eric Karabell, Mark Simon and Keith Law appear to be done with podcasting. I guess that whole sabermetrics thing never did work out.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 21:06 |
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Well, that's a bummer. I'm gonna need a Baseball podcast to listen to now. K-Law alluded to something else in the works. Harlock fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2013 around 21:39 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 21:37 |
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I don't really know why they just can't have two podcasts but... ok?
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 21:44 |
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IcePhoenix posted:when was porcello traded to the Twins
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 22:07 |
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rickiep00h posted:"Let me write a full-length article about statistics I can't bother to learn how to calculate." If 1500 words is the upper limit of useful instruction, dude must be rich from never buying a book ever. He's right insofar as you can't "learn" to calculate the defensive components of WAR, since they're based on (unless I've totally missed something) people actually watching and meticulously charting every baseball game. By the time there's any data for the layperson to see, you're just adding up some numbers and dividing by 10. It's also true that the process for turning offensive stats into RAR, calculating replacement level, etc. are pretty obscure. He's wrong that this is necessarily a substantial weakness of the metrics, because 1) I disagree with his assumption that ease of calculation is nearly as important as accuracy (i.e. correlation with team success, correlation with future performance) in a baseball statistic and 2) the idea that a statistic needs to be "verified" is pretty nonsensical. That is, I can see two methods of "verification" that he might mean: either ensuring that data was correctly processed into the result, or that the result matches with our intuition. But the former is an impossible standard--it's not like any lay fan is going to watch a player's every AB to "verify" his HR total--and the latter is actually a positive. After all, the whole point of new statistics is that they might say something that doesn't match our existing intuition. On the gripping hand, though, the article's general outline is basically spot on. WAR is a useful tool with significant weaknesses, and a lot of folks who use it either treat it otherwise or don't clearly communicate their understand of this. e: vvv Stats nerds are so used to people writing stupid junk to criticize WAR that we don't even notice when it's actually smart and correct. Mornacale fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2013 around 23:00 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 22:40 |
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That Caple article is pretty on point, I don't really understand the backlash.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 22:42 |
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leokitty posted:That Caple article is pretty on point, I don't really understand the backlash. Well, WAR is really the best statistic we've come up with to "objectively" compare players' overall performance. I guess it's kind of like when facebook slightly changes its format and everyone is really upset about it. Only this time, everybody LOVES the changes and only one person is pointing out what's wrong with it so they HATE HIM LET'S KILL HIM. e: to clarify, I agree with the article, mostly. Glenn_Beckett fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2013 around 00:15 |
| # ? Feb 1, 2013 23:03 |
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Glenn_Beckett posted:Well, WAR is really the best statistic we've come up with to "objectively" compare players' overall performance. I guess it's kind of like when facebook slightly changes its format and everyone is really upset about it. Only this time, everybody LOVES the changes and only one person is pointing out what's wrong with it so they HATE HIM LET'S KILL HIM. There is no all-in-one number, that's the entire point of the article. I mean, I'm sure before I die someone will have figured out how to quantify defense and remove context enough to where it's kind of close, but we're not even close enough to there yet. Bad numbers that are touted as the all-in-one solution - like, say, fWAR - actively hurt the dialogue.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 23:07 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 21:20 |
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DeltaAttack2go posted:The Baseball Today podcast is ending next week... Buster Olney will be starting a Baseball Tonight podcast that will include a bunch of regulars from the TV show, but Eric Karabell, Mark Simon and Keith Law appear to be done with podcasting.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2013 23:50 |
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