|
I have a question: Waaaay back when I first read the Hobbit, I remember thinking their must of been some previous incident in Bilbo's past that set him apart in Gandalf's mind. Which is why he then recommended him to Thorin in the first place, and why everyone keeps calling him a burglar. Am I correct? Or am I giving Tolkien too much credit/mis-interpreting his themes?
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2013 17:23
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:07 |
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:Bilbo is related to that one Took who could ride a horse and knocked the head off a goblin chief's head in a battles one time. He's got some of that Took blood in him and Gandalf can tell. All the poo poo that Bilbo pulls off in The Hobbit shows that Gandalf weasel right. But then why not refer Thorin to an actual Took (like I dunno, Pippen's dad?) ^^So it was basically his Plot Sense tingling?^^
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2013 16:14
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:...and LOTR is about humility and the underdog. Saruman being a failed tyrant is crucial to the story's tone I think. It's been years since I read LOTR, and I never thought of Saruman in this context. I'll also have to mention it to my brother, who always disliked the exclusion of the Scouring of the Shire from the movies despite understanding all the movie-making reasons for Jackson to do so.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2014 22:32
|
|
|
I saw the third Hobbit movie last night, and I just remembered something that's bugged me since I read the novels: So by the end of the Hobbit, Galdalf knows that Bilbo has a magic ring that makes him invisible, right? But he doesn't suspect that it's The Ring until Bilbo has his freakout at the beginning of Fellowship. But there are only 20 great rings identified in the book iirc, and The One Ring is pretty distinct looking from the rest. So were there other, less powerful rings in Middle Earth? Who made them, and when? How many were made? And what issues did these relatively minor magic items have that prompted Galdalf's initial word of caution? SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Dec 18, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Dec 18, 2014 18:56
|
|
|
Thanks. It's been a long time since I read the books.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 18, 2014 20:06
|
|
|
Another movie-related question-Thorin somehow just knows that Bard killed Smaug. I assume that a line of dialogue got left on the cutting room floor, and it's not something stupid like Thorin having a network of animal friends or something.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 18, 2014 21:14
|
|
|
Did Tolkein ever provide commentary on the Eagles? Given how often " hurr why don't the Eagles fly The Ring to Mount Doom?" is brought up, did Tolkein ever provide an explanation or even come out and admit 'yeah that's a plot-hole, my bad?'
|
|
#
¿
Dec 19, 2014 16:54
|
|
|
Lord Hydronium posted:There's a bit from a letter he wrote regarding a Lord of the Rings film treatment: Interesting, I had no idea a film version was being considered when Tolkein was still alive. Any place I can find more details?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 19, 2014 19:54
|
|
|
Oracle posted:Upon re-reading Fellowship to my son I was surprised to (re)discover that Galadriel was Celebrian's mom and thus Arwen's grandma, and Elrond was her son-in-law. That blew my mind a lil bit. I need to re-read LotR, but isn't Arwen like only two or three generations removed from her common ancestor with Aragorn?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 6, 2015 22:25
|
|
|
Ynglaur posted:After reading The Silmarillion, you start to realize what a family affair the whole War of the Ring was. Sauron killed Galadriel's brother while he was a prisoner, for example. Her father was slain by Sauron's master, Morgoth. Sauron later destroyed Hollin, which Galadriel had established in pale memory of Doriath after Beleriand sank into the ocean. Lothlorien was kind of "take 3" for Galadriel. With all of the elves heading West, what significance would being High King of the Noldor entail? EDIT: Nessus posted:Galadriel probably should've been queen, I guess, but queen over what? There were like three city-states of Noldor left and they were clearly in decline. It might have just picked a fight with Thranduil that nobody was interested in. It is funny to think that even that line ends up in Aragorn's family though. Between title-blobbing and inbreeding Aragorn is more like the Hapsburgs than any English monarch 
SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 6, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Jan 6, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Weren't there like thirty generations between Aragorn and his common ancestor with Arwen? I mean at a certain point we're all each other's 19th cousin or something. Yeah, but as mention Arwen is just one generation removed. The idea of AragornxArwen being a half-hillbilly couple is way more amusing to me than it warrents.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 6, 2015 23:49
|
|
|
Another movie question: did the Hobbit actually have Dune worms in it?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2015 15:57
|
|
|
I got a couple questions: First one is a probably a can of worms, but what has been the overall impression of Christopher Tolkein as both caretaker of his father's writings and an author in his own right? Somewhat related, my brother says that the Tolkein estate has never sold the movie rights to the Simarillion or anything other than the Hobbit and LOTR. Is this true?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2015 20:12
|
|
|
BatteredFeltFedora posted:Not just the War of Wrath, there have been multiple large and small apocalypses in Middle-Earth. The fall of Eregion, the sinking of Numenor, Moria, the collapse of Arnor and (slower but no less apocalyptic, I think) of Gondor. Even Smaug caused Dale to be a post-apocalyptic sort of area. There's got to be an alternative term for the setting trope because for better or worse 'post-apocalypse' brings to mind Mad Max, Terminator and Fallout when it could be applied to a much broader range of settings.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 9, 2015 01:47
|
|
|
This thread got me to spend some of my Chanukah money on a kindle version of LotR and the Simarillion. So thank you all for re-igniting my interest.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2015 20:39
|
|
|
There are pretty detailed explanations as to the origin of Elves, Men, Dwarves and Orcs, but do we get an explanation to how Hobbits got created?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2015 18:48
|
|
|
concerned mom posted:Short answer is no. Long answer is they probably came from Men. I guess it's one of those things that thematically are best left unexplained. If all the great powers of Middle Earth don't know the full deal behind the Hobbits are, then why would the reader know?  My fan theory is Tom Bombadil did it.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
One of the major changes that the movies make is Sam never put on the Ring. I get why the change was made-the way it's portrayed putting it on was treated like turning on a homing beacon for the Ring Wraiths, and it would have been a plot hole for Sam to use the Ring without consequence. But that just raises another question-why is Sam able to get away with it in the book? I remember that in the book the Ring doesn't quite have the same klaxon-like effect it had in the movies, but when Frodo puts the Ring on at Mount Doom it immediately alerts Sauron to where it is.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 15, 2015 02:03
|
|
|
This is probably my dumbest question (or series of questions) thus far, but in Shadows of the Past, Gandalf says that an alternative way of destroying a Great Ring is to feed it to a dragon, but says that's not really an option because they're all dead and they probably couldn't digest the One Ring anyway. But what about that big dragon in the OP, which is the size of a mountain range. Could it have eaten the Ring? And does a dragon gain a Great Ring's power by eating it or does it just go right into dragon poop? And what do Rings taste like? And in the book did Smaug notice the Ring? I remember that he had a photographic memory of his loot pile but I don't recall that detail. And the movie gives the implication that Smaug recognizes the Ring for what it is. I guess  would keep that info to himself for the same reason he's tempted to let Thorin have the Arkenstone, but could a dragon try to claim the Ring (instead of eating it)?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 15, 2015 20:47
|
|
|
Well thanks for answering my dumb question! EDIT: Ancalagon the Black is the big dragon in the OP, right? EDIT2: oh someone said that he was. go read comprehension SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 15, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Jan 15, 2015 22:48
|
|
|
So why did the Valar finally decide to take down Morgoth at the end of the First Age? I kinda get they were sick of his b/s, but what prompted them to launch their attack then and not like a century earlier?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2015 01:22
|
|
|
Josef K. Sourdust posted:NB: The British crown has copyright in perpetuity to the King James Bible, so be careful with your biblical fanfic. Muslims are pretty cool with you adapting the Koran though. M-maybe Muhammed-Senpai will notice me today! :nignog:
|
|
#
¿
Jan 19, 2015 16:00
|
|
|
I reached the chapter with Tom Bombadil in my re-read and I had totally forgoten about Goldberry. I know that Tom has a  status in the lore, but what about Goldberry? Is her background ever illuminated?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2015 16:13
|
|
|
When did Gandalf and company first come to Middle Earth? (particularly in relation to the events in the Hobbit and LotR?)
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2015 00:07
|
|
|
So, if the Wizards were present throughout the Third Age...why didn't Saruman just dredge the river to find the Ring?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2015 00:59
|
|
|
It's funny, the thing that bugs me the most about Tolkein's biases is how wolves are basically four-legged orcs in the books. I wasn't bugged by the wargs in the movie, but that was because those were clearly CGI monsters. Wolves are actual animals, and they were nearly driven to extinction in North America because of the mindset that they're innately evil. Sorry for the  . On another note I find it kinda funny how way less of a jerk Boromir is in the book. I guess it goes to show 'If you miss one Will Save, no one ever lets you forget it.'
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2015 16:34
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:It was a fairy tale trope as old as Beowulf, and Tolkien was in no position to try to be Farley Mowat on top of everything else. I guess it's just a consequence of the
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2015 22:09
|
|
|
Gollum first picks up the Fellowship's trail in Moria, right? So how does he follow them after Gandalf destroys the Bridge?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
I got another question about the Bridge of Khazad-Dun. The movie depicts it as a narrow arch that can only be traversed by one person at a time and had no guard rails on either side. A lot of pre-movie art pieces of the Gandalf/Balrog face-off show a similar depiction of the bridge. Was this supposed to be the main East entrance into Moria during it's heyday? Compared to the relatively practical architecture we see, the bridge looks more like something you'd find in Star Wars.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 6, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
I'm almost done with my reread of Fellowship-they're on the Great River. A few of my thoughts on their stay in Lothlorien and their journey south. -Haldir is less of a dick in the book, and Celeborn is more of one ("Boy do I regret lifting the prohibition on dwarves!" said right in front of Gimli). -I'm sure this wasn't the intent, but Gimli's crush for Galadriel always came off as creepy in the book. -There's a lot of talking about how little hope there is in succeeding, to the point that I feel it goes into breaking the Show-not-Tell guideline. I know that this opinion benefits from the hindsight of knowing the quest succeeds, so I'm curious to know if that comment has been made by others. -The description of the land around the River Anduin as they go south is a lot different than what was filmed. -Legolas buries the Fel Beast harder than HHH.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 12, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
What is Adamant in Middle Earth? In my reread I've seen it twice: first in describing Galadriel's ring as "The Ring of Adamant" and then as a building material when Frodo sees Barad-Dur from Amon Hen. Is it a metal like mithril?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2015 20:05
|
|
|
I would love to know more about how Tolkein created the map of Middle Earth. Did he get any help in creating it?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2015 19:19
|
|
|
I went ahead and ordered the Atlas of Middle Earth from Amazon. I should get Saturday. Meanwhile I got two questions. 1) Why does Saruman adopt "The White Hand" as his symbol? 2) In the film Saruman's staff is modeled after the peak of Orthanc, but did Tolkein ever give a description of the staff? Because if Peter Jackson came up with the design on his own, I like to imagine that only his knowledge of really bad movies stopped him from putting a hand on top of Saruman's staff.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
Kassad posted:Hey now, French kings had a thing like that, as shown on the right here: I'm guessing though that when Jackson was brainstorming, if the idea 'hand on top of staff' came up, he immediately thought: 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2015 01:24
|
|
|
I'm on Shelob's Lair and got my own creepy fantasy-creature-reproduction question. The book says that the Spiders of Mirkwood and Dol Guldur are her offspring, calling them 'bastard spawn.' But if Shelob is the last child of Ungoliant, then who or what was her mate? Also, I get the implication that after interrogating Gollum, Sauron dumped him in Shelob's lair since the book says He typically does that with prisoners he has no further use of. This also would fit with Sméagol's 'sincere insistence' (at least from Frodo's judgment) that he escaped rather than be released. So why didn't Shelob eat him? Was it because he was a scrawny cave creature that would have been a net loss of calories to eat? Was Sméagol just that craven he could beg off a giant loving spider? Both?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2015 15:21
|
|
|
And to be perfectly honest I prefer the frequent uncertainty in Middle Earth than the situation in Star Wars, where every little detail has a minimum 50,000 word backstory.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
I just finished with The Two Towers, and the conversation between Shagrat and Gorbag (who are probably my favorite minor characters in the book) confirms that. I want to say that the final chapter of TTT is as incredible as I remember it being the first time I read it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2015 23:50
|
|
|
This might be a dumb question, but how do Gandalf et al. KNOW know that they can't take command of The One Ring without turning into an evil jerk themselves? It's not like anyone other than Sauron ever uses it to its full potential. EDIT: On the subject of repentance, I started reading The Simarillion and Tolkein says that after the War of Wrath Sauron genuinely wanted to repent but flees because he's afraid that the Valar will be as harsh on him as they were with Morgoth, and eventually he falls back on his old habits. Similarly, on the steps of Crinith Ungol Gollom appears to have a moment of genuine empathy while observing Frodo and Sam asleep, but then Sam wakes up and mouths off at him and the moment disappears. It seems a reoccurring theme that the biggest obstacle to evil repenting is ironically those that would most benefit from their change of heart. Does Tolkein ever address this conundrum in his letters? SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 26, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2015 18:44
|
|
|
Okay, but to play Devil's Advocate, the Ring's Destruction and Sauron's downfall doesn't mean the Shadow has been removed from Middle Earth for good. While Tolkein gave up on writing a 4th Age Chronicle because he got bored of it, his mythology still implies that a new evil will eventually take Sauron's place. EDIT: On the observed history question, what are the other examples of Superpowers driving their users crazy?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2015 18:58
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:07 |
|
|
Thanks for all of your answers. 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2015 17:11
|
|