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FritzJ
Feb 8, 2013


 
You have full permission to write me off as some knuckle dragging simpleton, who is too shrouded by ignorance to use his common sense. But am I the only one that believes that competitive gaming has put a cold embrace on the fun factor in a lot of current generation titles? 

 
       
Examples of Competitive Games
 

Now to some of you this may be a mood point, devoid of any rationality but hear me out. This isn't one of those posts yelling, screaming, and crying about how I get beat or find players with skills of a god but, how my favorite game genres have been taken over by a breed of Mountain-Dew drinking, racial slur spewing, can't take a loss if you paid them try hards. Now as I said in aforementioned statement, if one is leagues above me in skill I can legitamately say "Good game" and move along with my day.

 

Fighters:

 

The problem lies within those who will go out of their way to not play the game for fun, but literally just to win. For example, in the fighting game community its no secret that its now commonplace to go into a lobby and see someone playing a top tier character. Now there's nothing wrong with that, however given how a lot of games need to be patched some characters are just out right broken. You'll have players spamming infinites, an obscene amount of projectiles, that completly gut the fun factor of any fighter. Anyone whose played the most recent installment of Mortal Kombat can agree that when Kung Lao was top tier with easy to pull off 70% combos, you hardly ran into any other characters at the high-level. But as more characters came to hit the level of "Over powered" such as Cyrax, Kenshi, and Kabal people began to spam all the more.

 

5 aspects of this in fighters

1.) Counter Picking - When opponent chooses (A) choose the character that can easily stop Character (A).

 2.)Spamming - Now some players cling to this as the high-level tof play technique of  "zoning" i.e. throw projectiles across the screen with not even an iota of thought to come near you and actually fight. No excuse for it, it just holds the opponent to play a certain way more often than not a way in which isn't fun, just tedious, annoying, and above all else repetitive.

 3.)Patch N' Ditch - Character (A) is broken beyond all belief and Player plays them non-stop. A patch comes out to make Character (A) somewhat scaled to competition, but one character is now in its own league due to this one's drop. No longer play Character (A) jump to Character (B)

 4.)Rage Quit - Just when Player is about to lose (The connection has been lost) (Your opponent has left the game) (Player (A) has logged out) ect.

 5.)Skill Compensation - Picks a character that is 100% Stacked and can really only lose on it's controller's misplays alone. However when this player wins they act as if it was all skill and knows if they played ANY other character they wouldn't ever really win. Infinite combos normally fall in here
 


Racers:

This is a short but sweet section. When I head into a lobby and see 7 people using the exact same car making any racing games extensive car library all but obselete. Normally there is a clear omnipotent vehicle and if you aren't willing to shovel out cash (if its DLC) or grind in-game cash for that car specifically, you won't even be competitive. Forza and Gran Turismo are better with this due to you having to actually somewhat know what your doing on and off the track for success. However it won't stop those from going online searching "Ultimate Car Guides" and slapping together behemoths and setting the stage to the one specific race that best suits their car. In games like Need for Speed: Most Wanted, Split/Second, and other racers without in depth customization there is always a clear cut "best car".

However I've been ranked pretty high in Forza Motorsport 4 and every time I join a lobby, I get kicked. Not because I did something wrong, but because I look like stiff competition. Some "gamers" rather pad their win/loss ratio than work for anything. Hell, some people actually will GET A NEW XBOX LIVE OR PSN ACCOUNT just to start 0-0 and boost themselves to unrealistic average finishing positions. 

Those Pesky FPS:

This one I won't even explain this little post is a little TL;DR as is. But camping, glitching, killing team mate for power weapons just in an attempt to increase the all important kill/death ratio.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

???


I would imagine Competitive Play Ruining would ruin the fun factor, yes.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Precisely.


While I can agree with a lot of your frustration, I think the three genres you've picked as examples have always been that way, not just recently. Kind of a dickish question but how long have you been playing video games?

The Taint Reaper
Sep 4, 2012



You left out Smash bros. and it's laundry list of rules that are required in order to make the game "skill based" so competitive play is possible.

FZeroRacer
Apr 8, 2009


I liked Chess before people started taking it seriously and used cheap moves to win

Kifisonfire
Jan 15, 2008



Forza Horizon is a competitive game?

Smarmy Coworker
May 10, 2008

by XyloJW


Mortal Kombat is a competitive game?? whaaat

Contest Winner
May 8, 2006

My head, she has an equator!

Some people aren't having fun unless they are winning, so winning is all they care about. You might disagree or think it is dumb or whatever but you will never change it so just don't worry about it and move on.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Precisely.


WendigoJohnson posted:

You left out Smash bros. and it's laundry list of rules that are required in order to make the game "skill based" so competitive play is possible.

No no, those people are just crazy.

President Ark
May 16, 2010

Looks like you got a good deal there!

Everyone has a different internal definition of what the game is and what they want out of it. You get this even in little kids playing multiplayer, where Timmy can only enjoy himself when he's winning while Johnny only ever plays as Bowser and Steve doesn't care who wins or loses so long as he gets to throw bombs at people. They construct rules around it, which can be anything from "Turn off feature x, it's stupid" to "Beat the poo poo out of Steve so that fucker doesn't throw bombs at everyone" to "Play as a different character every round because that makes it more interesting".

These people you're complaining about are playing these games in the ways that they most enjoy. That doesn't mean they're killing fun or anything - I seriously doubt you're a completely unique snowflake in your gaming preferences; if you like throwing bombs at people no doubt there's a forum of ten thousand Steves out there to play games with. There are people who blindly imitate the competitive player's habits, but those are generally younger players who want to get better and don't really know how, so they just mimic "the best players".


So, TL:DR; Maybe play with other people if you can't stand the ones you play with?

Zand
Jul 9, 2003

~ i'll take you for a ride ~ ride on a meteorite ~

FritzJ posted:

 
The problem lies within those who will go out of their way to not play the game for fun, but literally just to win. For example, in the fighting game community its no secret that its now commonplace to go into a lobby and see someone playing a top tier character. Now there's nothing wrong with that, however given how a lot of games need to be patched some characters are just out right broken. You'll have players spamming infinites, an obscene amount of projectiles, that completly gut the fun factor of any fighter. Anyone whose played the most recent installment of Mortal Kombat can agree that when Kung Lao was top tier with easy to pull off 70% combos, you hardly ran into any other characters at the high-level. But as more characters came to hit the level of "Over powered" such as Cyrax, Kenshi, and Kabal people began to spam all the more.
 

A lot of players (myself included) actually find playing games with the purpose of winning to be fun, and there isnt some sort of wall separating winning and having fun. In a game where you play against another player, it really sucks to always be on the losing end of things. And of course the things that person is doing to beat you are better than the things you are doing (that is why you are losing). Are you sure you aren't just mad at yourself for being unable to win and not at other players for trying to beat you (in a game where the goal is to beat the other player)?

I've played really competitive games pretty much exclusively for the last few years and you remind me of all the people I've that just can't handle competition. You should just stop playing competitive games since you have obviously peaked at such a low level of competency in them and will never realistically be a competitor to anyone with any amount of skill. If you still want to compete maybe you can find some like-minded players and set up house rules or play on handicap.

killstealing
Nov 9, 2011




Ask yourself who cares and bam you solved the problem!

Vakal
May 11, 2008


I agree. What kind of bullshit is this?

Kraven Moorhed
Jan 5, 2006

So wrong, yet so right.

FritzJ posted:

1.) Counter Picking - When opponent chooses (A) choose the character that can easily stop Character (A).

 2.)Spamming - Now some players cling to this as the high-level tof play technique of  "zoning" i.e. throw projectiles across the screen with not even an iota of thought to come near you and actually fight. No excuse for it, it just holds the opponent to play a certain way more often than not a way in which isn't fun, just tedious, annoying, and above all else repetitive.

 3.)Patch N' Ditch - Character (A) is broken beyond all belief and Player plays them non-stop. A patch comes out to make Character (A) somewhat scaled to competition, but one character is now in its own league due to this one's drop. No longer play Character (A) jump to Character (B)

 4.)Rage Quit - Just when Player is about to lose (The connection has been lost) (Your opponent has left the game) (Player (A) has logged out) ect.

 5.)Skill Compensation - Picks a character that is 100% Stacked and can really only lose on it's controller's misplays alone. However when this player wins they act as if it was all skill and knows if they played ANY other character they wouldn't ever really win. Infinite combos normally fall in here

1: When's the last fighting game that you saw this being a viable strategy?

2: Zoning is using a move that's available to you. Should I not use uppercuts against a character that's jumping over me? If you're fighting against someone who keeps using fireballs, by the way, there are a wonderful assortment of mechanics that allow you to punish them. It's your own fault for huddling in a corner.

3: Balance changes warp metagames. This happens in ANY competitive game, and is a healthy aspect of the environment. So people shouldn't respond to changes in a game, and instead just keep playing it as if it didn't change?

4: Why does this piss you off? It's more cathartic than anything, as it shows the person has acknowledged you've utterly hosed them. How is it any different than drawing out a match?

5: That's not a problem with the game. You're playing with lovely people. Find better people. Also, give me an example of a character that is literally unbeatable in any modern fighting game.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

A homeless person was out on the street, looked up at me and said, "Draft Manziel." Just like that.

And that convinced me, that the Cleveland Browns' fans wanted Manziel.

Vakal posted:

I agree. What kind of bullshit is this?



That seems vaguely sexual.

FritzJ
Feb 8, 2013


Orv posted:

While I can agree with a lot of your frustration, I think the three genres you've picked as examples have always been that way, not just recently. Kind of a dickish question but how long have you been playing video games?

Since roughly about 98. Although when I played fighters at an Arcade (when they existed) people could counter-pick ect. However you were paying to play. So money and play time availability were on the line. When its just online play, I think fun should be the priority. I mean otherwise you are paying 60 dollars and on top of that 60 dollars a year, to be a dick? Well wouldn't be the first dumb thing I've seen people do. It's not dickish at all but, I do think that their is a point. That a "win loss ratio" shouldn't be put in this light of "If its above X amount, I'm jesus". When there is a cash prize like at these MLG things, once again its understable there is MONEY on the line. However going online, picking people with bad records, and intentionally trying to gain an advantage when there is no point ONLINE, it just comes off as a mood point.

Ambivalent
Oct 14, 2006

Still uncertain after all these years.

It sounds like most of what you're actually upset about is uncompetitive play. If one character is obviously better than other characters, if people are exploiting bugs to win, that isn't competitive play at all!

Lets! Get! Weird!
Aug 18, 2012

Black King Bazinga


Halo 4 is about as competitive as Mario Tennis.

FritzJ
Feb 8, 2013


ARACHNOTRON posted:

Mortal Kombat is a competitive game?? whaaat

Well I don't think its a game that needs to be competitive. But if you go look at the ocmmunity or play the games. You'll notice people that MK seriously. A game with a thing called "babality" is taken that seriously. Also its been in the past 2 Evolution & MLG tournaments so, I suppose its been corrupted too.

President Ark
May 16, 2010

Looks like you got a good deal there!

FritzJ posted:

But if you go look at the ocmmunity or play the games. You'll notice people that MK seriously. A game with a thing called "babality" is taken that seriously. Also its been in the past 2 Evolution & MLG tournaments so, I suppose its been corrupted too.

Your problem here is reading forums dedicated to a single video game; they always tend to be really insular and cliquey and circlejerk-ey.

Kraven Moorhed
Jan 5, 2006

So wrong, yet so right.

FritzJ posted:

When its just online play, I think fun should be the priority.

So you're angry people aren't playing the game your way? Only you know what "fun" really is? You sound just as bad as hyper-serious competitive players. People play games from different perspectives, and invest different amounts of time in them. Find a small group of like-minded players if you can't deal with the variation.

FritzJ
Feb 8, 2013


Kifisonfire posted:

Forza Horizon is a competitive game?

Competitive I wouldn't say so. However the motorsports seem to draw in quite a few of those try hards. Although I see racers as merely just racers, a few players can ruin an online experience. More people rage quit in Forza Horizon than they do in any street fighter game I've played.

The Taint Reaper
Sep 4, 2012



computer parts posted:

That seems vaguely sexual.
All it is, is two Geodudes fighting each other.

FritzJ
Feb 8, 2013


Zand posted:

A lot of players (myself included) actually find playing games with the purpose of winning to be fun, and there isnt some sort of wall separating winning and having fun. In a game where you play against another player, it really sucks to always be on the losing end of things. And of course the things that person is doing to beat you are better than the things you are doing (that is why you are losing). Are you sure you aren't just mad at yourself for being unable to win and not at other players for trying to beat you (in a game where the goal is to beat the other player)?

I've played really competitive games pretty much exclusively for the last few years and you remind me of all the people I've that just can't handle competition. You should just stop playing competitive games since you have obviously peaked at such a low level of competency in them and will never realistically be a competitor to anyone with any amount of skill. If you still want to compete maybe you can find some like-minded players and set up house rules or play on handicap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLFfmVg41d8

Me Playing some MK. My record is 294W/162L so I wouldn't say that I'm terrible and don't mind competitive play. I do play some high level people. But if you pick a character with an 80% combo, then say its skill even though its easy to pull off, I personally think its a problem. That's all. As for "give up on competitive games" I'll pass. But I see where you're going.

Deep Space Hitler
Apr 21, 2011



In 9th grade my friend dylan ruined gaming forever...

FritzJ
Feb 8, 2013


Kraven Moorhed posted:

So you're angry people aren't playing the game your way? Only you know what "fun" really is? You sound just as bad as hyper-serious competitive players. People play games from different perspectives, and invest different amounts of time in them. Find a small group of like-minded players if you can't deal with the variation.

Not necessarily angry. I only know what fun is? Nah, its all opinionated. However if having fun is throwing out racial slurs, quitting when they are about to lose, and counter picking your every move just so they have an advantage. Welp, so be it I just think its stupid. Much like how you think I'm stupid. Yerp.

KennyMan666
May 27, 2010

The Saga


President Ark posted:

Timmy can only enjoy himself when he's winning while Johnny only ever plays as Bowser and Steve doesn't care who wins or loses so long as he gets to throw bombs at people.
I love how this is very nearly the three archetypes of Magic players, except who is who is switched around. In the Magic player archetypes, Timmy plays for fun, Johnny plays for interesting mechanics and Spike plays to win.

While I can to a point agree that highly competitive play can ruin fun, that has more to do with what I'm looking for in a game and it's what happens when the different player types clash. To use the names of the Magic player archetypes, even for other games, Timmy won't think the way Spike plays is fun since he's too serious about winning, and Spike won't think the way Timmy plays is fun since he doesn't take the game seriously enough.

So competitive gaming is mostly Spikes, and the majority of players you run into when playing online are Spikes. So if you're Timmy, you'll have a hard time finding other Timmies online to just play casually with.

And this is why I pretty much never play online games with people I don't already know.

Thwack!
Aug 14, 2010

Somebody come and rescue me quick,

or I'm gonna be the admin's next pick!

People that play competitive games are too mean and serious. If gaming wants to be treated as an actual sport people need to smile more and be in funny costumes. Like for example Shaquille O'Neal. He was in a genie costume and a super hero costume, and that's funny. Gaming athletes need to be more funny.

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007


Vakal posted:

I agree. What kind of bullshit is this?


And then when they punch you, it bounces you right in front of the other fist and they punch you again! Like what the gently caress dude, stop punch-spamming!

FritzJ
Feb 8, 2013


Kraven Moorhed posted:

1: When's the last fighting game that you saw this being a viable strategy?

2: Zoning is using a move that's available to you. Should I not use uppercuts against a character that's jumping over me? If you're fighting against someone who keeps using fireballs, by the way, there are a wonderful assortment of mechanics that allow you to punish them. It's your own fault for huddling in a corner.

3: Balance changes warp metagames. This happens in ANY competitive game, and is a healthy aspect of the environment. So people shouldn't respond to changes in a game, and instead just keep playing it as if it didn't change?

4: Why does this piss you off? It's more cathartic than anything, as it shows the person has acknowledged you've utterly hosed them. How is it any different than drawing out a match?

5: That's not a problem with the game. You're playing with lovely people. Find better people. Also, give me an example of a character that is literally unbeatable in any modern fighting game.

Well when you have the same 4 characters always reaching top 4 in the "major" tournaments and and the same exact character won the big EVO tournament 2 years in a row it speaks for itself about characters. In MK and a few other fighters, if you want to be seriously competitive, some characters aren't even a viable option is what I'm getting at. Not as if there is one pinnacle at the top of the mountain that no sheer amount of effort can conquer.

Original_Z
Jun 14, 2005
Z so good

I kind of understand what you're saying with racing games where like 90% of the cars aren't viable in a competitive setting, I've never understood why racing games gloat that they have hundreds upon hundreds of cars, you can bet that the playerbase won't bother with the majority of them. Driving your favorite car or whatever will just hold you back unless you play under restrictive rules.

Sports games are kind of a good example of this, I've heard people say that Madden is only fun when you're winning and I can kind of agree with it. If you're just being smoked with no chance to win and it's only halftime, it kind of kills your motivation to keep going.

Garin
Oct 18, 2007

Kick Jonathan


Competitive Play is indeed ruining a lot of fun factor when it comes to games. My friend would rag on me endlessly about my turn counts in Masoukishin. I could never keep up.

Armchair Calvinist
Jan 10, 2005

I need to somehow get a hold of a multimeter so I can pin out my headlight wiring and install a brighter front end. But I also need to finish the Thieves Guild quest line so I can restore order and honor to the underworld of Riften.

KennyMan666 posted:

I love how this is very nearly the three archetypes of Magic players, except who is who is switched around. In the Magic player archetypes, Timmy plays for fun, Johnny plays for interesting mechanics and Spike plays to win.

While I can to a point agree that highly competitive play can ruin fun, that has more to do with what I'm looking for in a game and it's what happens when the different player types clash. To use the names of the Magic player archetypes, even for other games, Timmy won't think the way Spike plays is fun since he's too serious about winning, and Spike won't think the way Timmy plays is fun since he doesn't take the game seriously enough.

So competitive gaming is mostly Spikes, and the majority of players you run into when playing online are Spikes. So if you're Timmy, you'll have a hard time finding other Timmies online to just play casually with.

And this is why I pretty much never play online games with people I don't already know.

I lost nearly my entire social group to competitive gaming (fighter games mostly), where for hours on end all they do is practice for tournaments to the point of where I have no ability to even play with them because it's so one-sided and they never want to do anything else so you can't drag them out of their houses to be people. Being good is one thing, but there is a way to do it that doesn't make it so not fun that you just look like a tool instead. It's not even that I'm a Timmy or a Johnny. Spike simply doesn't understand that you can be good without being sperglord rear end in a top hat. All the best players I've met have been Johnnies and Timmies and all the Spikes have been tryhards that don't get the opportunity costs of delving so hard into something that was supposed to be fun. But I guess that's why most of these games were made (DoTA clones, fighters) in the first place.

And that's why I play TF2 where I can destroy scrubs while wearing silly hats with fun game mechanics. Plus, it's more fun getting one win out of ten with an 80 card Door to Nothingness ramp deck than nine out of ten with some $1000 deck exactly identical to everyone else's. It's two-person poker and you keep losing money at that point. vv

President Ark
May 16, 2010

Looks like you got a good deal there!

FritzJ posted:

Well when you have the same 4 characters always reaching top 4 in the "major" tournaments and and the same exact character won the big EVO tournament 2 years in a row it speaks for itself about characters. In MK and a few other fighters, if you want to be seriously competitive, some characters aren't even a viable option is what I'm getting at. Not as if there is one pinnacle at the top of the mountain that no sheer amount of effort can conquer.

That says less about competitive gaming and more about the quality of that game in a competitive sense. League of Legends has over a hundred characters and over half of them are used regularly in competitive play. If only a single-digit-percent roster of a game is being used in competitive play, then that says the game is poorly balanced for competitive play.

Thirst Mutilator
Dec 13, 2008


The games you've mentioned are inherently competitive. Lately game genres have begun to diversify and we've got a lot more options within genres to pick and choose what we like and want to play - I know friends who avoid Dota 2 for this reason. If the inherent competitive nature of a game turns you off, guess what? You can play something different. Nothing's stopping you.

Carados
Jan 27, 2009

We're a couple, when our bodies double.


President Ark posted:

That says less about competitive gaming and more about the quality of that game in a competitive sense. League of Legends has over a hundred characters and over half of them are used regularly in competitive play. If only a single-digit-percent roster of a game is being used in competitive play, then that says the game is poorly balanced for competitive play.

To be fair, League has major competitive game design problems and it isn't so much as half the characters get used, as most of the characters are almost completely interchangeable besides power level between roles. Using it as an example of a well balanced competitive game is not a good choice, as there is basically one strategy that has been used since the beginning of the game in a genre that really has openings for multiple viable strategies.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

and she told me, "Listen honey. There's hundreds of strong men out there. I like men who are kind, who are honest, men who can be open with me."

If you're interested in the Competitive vs. Fun debate from a development standpoint, Dustin Browder (Starcraft 2's Lead Designer) has a pretty interesting talk from 2011 about how balancing for competitive play can permeate every aspect of game design, right down to individual unit readability, mechanics, particle effects, and so on. He compares SC2 to his previous work on C&C3, a relatively noncompetitive RTS, and how he could let his imagination run wild without trying to think about how players at the highest level could exploit unintended consequences of those ideas.

Zand
Jul 9, 2003

~ i'll take you for a ride ~ ride on a meteorite ~

Xovaan posted:

I lost nearly my entire social group to competitive gaming (fighter games mostly), where for hours on end all they do is practice for tournaments to the point of where I have no ability to even play with them because it's so one-sided and they never want to do anything else so you can't drag them out of their houses to be people. Being good is one thing, but there is a way to do it that doesn't make it so not fun that you just look like a tool instead. It's not even that I'm a Timmy or a Johnny. Spike simply doesn't understand that you can be good without being sperglord rear end in a top hat. All the best players I've met have been Johnnies and Timmies and all the Spikes have been tryhards that don't get the opportunity costs of delving so hard into something that was supposed to be fun. But I guess that's why most of these games were made (DoTA clones, fighters) in the first place.

And that's why I play TF2 where I can destroy scrubs while wearing silly hats with fun game mechanics. Plus, it's more fun getting one win out of ten with an 80 card Door to Nothingness ramp deck than nine out of ten with some $1000 deck exactly identical to everyone else's. It's two-person poker and you keep losing money at that point. vv

Just like you dislike playing with competitive players, most competitive players really don't like playing with people like you. I don't think they think you're an rear end in a top hat for being bad, though. You're smart for sticking with playing games made for people like you with like-minded friends instead of repeatedly playing games you don't like with people you don't like.

FritzJ
Feb 8, 2013


President Ark posted:

That says less about competitive gaming and more about the quality of that game in a competitive sense. League of Legends has over a hundred characters and over half of them are used regularly in competitive play. If only a single-digit-percent roster of a game is being used in competitive play, then that says the game is poorly balanced for competitive play.

My point isn't to down competitive gaming. That's not what I'm on about here. I'm on about people who go out of their way to minimize the skill needed for success. For example you said League of Legends. Being good in that game means you study the game, you know the mechanics, you know what to do, when to do it, and who to avoid at what problems. Tangling in tandem with team mates you understand and firmly grasp the meta. Each victory you EARN. That is very different than,

"Hey you picked this character, this character over here shuts the character you picked down completely. Let me go pick them".

or

"Oh I'm going to play THIS character because its so easy to win with, I will then quit if I somehow get close to losing to KEEP MY RATIO."

or the best one yet.

"I'm only going to play this character because he's the best in the game. A patch comes out slightly altering the character to where his/her average damage scales down to 33% from the beforehand 37% per combo. Since this has been too much to handle I'll go play the NEW top character"

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Kraven Moorhed
Jan 5, 2006

So wrong, yet so right.

FritzJ posted:

Well when you have the same 4 characters always reaching top 4 in the "major" tournaments and and the same exact character won the big EVO tournament 2 years in a row it speaks for itself about characters. In MK and a few other fighters, if you want to be seriously competitive, some characters aren't even a viable option is what I'm getting at. Not as if there is one pinnacle at the top of the mountain that no sheer amount of effort can conquer.

Okay, now your argument's getting confused. Either way, you said yourself that there's incentive to win tournaments whether's it's monetary or a simple matter of pride. People flock towards what they perceive as dominant strategies when something's on the line, as they are trying to do everything they can within the bounds of the competition to maximize their chances of winning. This is why patches exist and why those balance changes you derided people for adapting to are effective. Games are initially balanced internally to the best of the developer and playtesters' abilities, and supplemented by later patches dependent on performance. Thus, the metagame changes, and that roster of four characters rotates out.

Yes, it'd be fantastic if every character was balanced, but that's not exactly viable. The more variables you have, the more complex the balance is. Interesting and different characters make the styles of play asymmetrical, which means there will always be aspects you never thought of. Would you rather we return to the original Mortal Kombat games of everyone having only a few differences in mechanics so we can assure everyone's balanced?

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