|
Great idea for a thread. I definitely fit the mould of this thread (mid 30s, always working on career progression), but I also am in a position in my career where I hire, develop, and promote the type of people posting in this thread. Incoming wall of text and responses: I am a frontline manager in a large-ish IT focused company with an incredible focus on management, leadership, and development. My career trajectory started with a help desk job in school and I have help various IT roles (including exec support), consulting (IT technology and processes), services, presales, and now leadership. I have worked for companies as small as seven people into the hundred-thousand-personnel-plus size. I am happy to provide both generic advice as well as specific thoughts for those in my area of expertise. Development Plans Do those of you who want to move up have a development plan to get you there? Sure, it is nice when your company does a development plan, but most just 'check the box' and don't really do anything of use to you as an employee. If there is interest, a development planning post or even thread might be useful to some of you. Take control of your own development and have a plan that gets you where you want to go. ProFootballGuy posted:Agreed on all counts. When I was a sales engineer it took me a year to figure out that my technology improved X, Y, and Z numbers and why wouldn't the customer buy? Once I learned how to translate those figures into actual, business value everything fell into place. Business Value is key. I don't care what your job is, if you understand the business value you provide you have a leg up on most of your peers. When I was a consultant I knew exactly how much money my employer made off my bookings. Software sales is all about business value, and it is the only lever to prevent sales at maximum discount every time. Wagoneer posted:I'm looking to get into management. You and most everybody else, and nearly everyone is wrong. Why do you want to get into Management? Most people I speak with on the topic say 'money,' which in my mind is an instant DQ. 'Career growth,' is the other common answer and mostly shows that the individual isn't really thinking about all of the career options and opportunities that might be more in line with their skills and needs. Lots of interesting discussion to be had on this topic. Shadowhand00 posted:One of the VPs in my company sat down with me for a skip-level meeting. He told me he looks for 3 things when he promotes someone: We use 'iced': Intelligent, Character/Coachable, Education/Experience, Drive. Showing drive and passion is one of the easier things to work on, but you have to work on it. Those without the drive tend to be the ones likely to leave because they want to do something 'different.' TouchyMcFeely posted:As much as I enjoy what I do, the people I work with and the freedom this job has granted me it's become clear that if I want to move up I have to move out. Because I waited, I've lost 3 years that I should have spent looking, polishing my resume, networking, etc. Mr. McFeely, from everything you wrote it sounds like you need to pull the eject handle where you are soon, and then really work on moving up. You are likely stifled where you are. Mutar posted:Anyone have any thoughts on this? Mutar: Yes, many. I have been in your shoes. You likely have many more options than you realize. It will come down to your talents, abilities, and desires. econdroidbot posted:Uh oh, I see a lot of myself in this post! I'm approaching a similar crossroads at my current company. I've been successful as a senior analyst, but in my opinion it's time to jump to some sort of manager position. They keep telling me about what a good job I've been doing and maybe they will send me to Colombia or China, but then nothing happens. So, I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to leave in order to move up. Why do you want to be a manager? I agree that most companies do a poor job of succession planning and leadership development. Either your company doesn't do it or they are doing it with someone else. Does your leadership know that you want to move into management? Some industries will promote analysts to managers, but those tend to be ones where managers still do analysis and years of experience doing the analyst job are directly relevant (Accounting/Finance for one).
|
#
¿
Feb 19, 2013 17:52
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
Shadowhand00 posted:Thanks for this. Its really putting things into perspective for me. I'm going to mention getting some goals and terms of success in place with my new manager to ensure that I am able to move forward with my career development. I honestly appreciate the other feedback on this as well. Be proactive with this. Have ideas of what you think would be really good goals and objectives, and have a clear development objective. Do you want to go up the next level? Have a plan that gets you there. I know this will sound cheesy, but seriously, use the SMART concept when defining your goals. I usually have my people only take on a couple things at a time, but under the framework of some broader plan. You will look like a rockstar if come up with a plan and execute against it. Will also show the drive your VP is looking for. This is all about what you do, how well you execute, and how well you communicate your success up the chain.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 19, 2013 19:36
|
|
|
^^^ Awesome post Crazyweasel On Management as Career Path -At your company or in your industry/job, what makes a good individual contributor? What makes a good manager? I can answer for my narrow slice of careers, but these questions should be seriously considered if you want to make the move from IC to management. When you actually interview for a management job, especially for a promotion at your current company, that you can articulate the difference and transition path looks very, very good. -In your line of work, is there a difference between leadership and management? Are there roles at your company that have more of one or the other? I have found that many people who think they want to go into management really want a leadership role as an individual contributor (think like a non-commissioned office in the military). Leadership is rarely in the job title, and every place is different, but those roles do exist and can have all of the pay and respect with none of the hiring, firing, and HR stuff. -What can you do as an individual contributor to show that you have the management skills appropriate for your business? Developing others is a common answer, and there may be others. If you have experience in your current job and there are newbies on the team, do you take an active role (even if unofficial) in developing and helping new people? I have been able to make strong cases for promotion based on this as the backbone. -Focus on the fundamentals. Special projects are good, but I have never seen them alone get someone promoted. Do you job well. Whatever metrics and measurements go along with your job should be squeaky clean. Here is an example that comes from a friend/mentor of mine: If you want to become a Navy SEAL, you have to go through some very difficult training, including something known as 'HellWeek.' If you wash out, can't get through training, you ring a bell (literally) and get put on some terrible assignment somewhere, usually scraping paint (literally) on a boat somewhere (so the anecdote says). It is possible at times to get a second chance to become a SEAL. Those second chances are hard to come by, and my mentor always gave some simple advice: go be the best paint scraper on the boat. Be the first to step up for the worst/hardest jobs and the last in line for chow or other rewards. Those who took that advice to heart got their second chance and got them faster than those who sat around waiting for it to come to them. Personally, I didn't get the first, or even second third 'management' job I interviewed for, but I got the absolute best and right job for me when it came up, and I never lost sight of the fundamentals of the job I had while working for a promotion. econdroidbot: Sounds like the problem (director) was solved, and if new leadership doesn't cut it look to find a place to work with better management. DukAmok If you have no desire to manage people, then look for the leadership career path over the management one. I have seen people go down your path and become terrible managers. Maybe one day you will want that, but find the other path for now. I guarantee that regardless of what you do there is leadership possible as an individual contributor. Shadowhand00 posted:More good advice! I've set up a meeting for next week to go over these goals with my supervisor. I have a week to come up with these now and to really break down where I want to go within this company over the next year. Post ideas here and get feedback, or PM me and I will help you. TouchyMcFeely posted:I'd be interested in hearing more about this. My company's HR group sent out a packet a few years ago that I think was an attempt at this and like so many things it died almost immediately. If there is a way to put a map like that together on my own I would love to learn more about it. PM me and I'll work with you on development planning. That open offer goes to anyone interested here. You can and should be doing development planning for yourself, regardless of what you do. Don't wait for HR to do it where you work, it is exceedingly uncommon, and even more rare that it is done well. NeekBerm posted:What is the best way to leverage this fantastic opportunity. Do I tie myself to as many projects as possible for later resume fodder? How long do I stay at this organization until I start entertaining other offers? Do you want to be a project manager? There is a way to move up in that field, but it may not really be what you want... That being said it is an entire career/industry. As for SWOT, if you do a SWOT for yourself it can and should inform your development plan. If you do SWOT and SMART well you can take the content from it, internalize it, and talk about it without using any lingo and sound amazing in meetings and proposals. Mutar: Where are you geographically speaking? There are likely IT career paths you aren't even thinking about, but where you are located and the types of companies where you are will dictate some of the possibilities.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 20, 2013 18:01
|
|
|
kells posted:...honest I'm not really interested in working in IT anyway. This may be a totally stupid question, but how/why did you get an IT degree if you have no interest in working in IT? It is no surprise that you don't like your job and want to bounce around if you are in a field that you dislike in general. And for the sake of you and everyone around you don't just delay the burnout by stretching it into a longer period of time. What you need is a clear plan and path to exit IT. Keep your current job for the time being, keep paying the bills, and focus your energy on getting out. Worse to be out of a job and have no plan and no money. If you want to do baking full time, are there entry level bakery jobs that you can get without some kind of culinary school background? Goons with Chickencheese has an industry thread that might be right up your alley. Regarding Kells Kupcakes: Beware, many states have cottage industry laws and regulations especially where food is involved. My mom in her 'retirement' is trying to start a from home bakery and the classes and certifications required to do this above board (California) is mind boggling. She actually took a part time job at a commercial bakery to help offset cost and gain experience in addition to some cheap community college type classes. Sure, you can fly under the radar for a time but if you want it to be your sole source of income eventually you will have to go beyond bakery bootlegger.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2013 18:04
|
|
|
diremonk: do you do anything outside of work that involves any kind of leadership? I have a guy on my team who has never had a management position at work but does all kinds of things where he is absolutely a leader and does management like tasks outside of work (in his case cub scouts related). You can probably get exposure to the management tasks on the job as a part of your development, but leadership can totally be learned and done outside of work.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2013 07:54
|
|
|
DukAmok posted:Just thought I'd update to inject some positivity in the thread. Got my promotion to Manager! Duties and responsibilities are essentially unchanged, but now if down the road I need to hire some people to help I can do so. For now though, it's purely a leadership style raise, which was precisely what I was going for. Fantastic news! Leadership and Management should go hand in hand and it is heartwarming to see your employer gets it. My personal situation is also looking up. There was a terrible middle manager where I work whose last day was yesterday. Several excellent employees quit because of this guy and he was no leader. With him gone more senior leadership can make some much needed changes and things should be looking up. Also I am not going to need to find another job but instead can enhance my leadership position here.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2013 03:55
|
|
|
themongol posted:Anyone has any recommendations for business/professional development books? The other day my boss asked me to send a wide reaching email internally to showcase a recent win we got, and she quoted the Art of War (business version of it) that said to 'announce your victories early and loudly'. I'm interested in other books that have helped people grow as a middle range professional. First Break All the Rules is excellent. Kind of bridges the gap between behaviors and truly achieving an effective workplace. Execution, Drive are good. Money ball may have been made into a movie but is very much a business book. Carnegie is great so don't discount that. I am just into Start with Why but it is promising. But really start with First Break All the Rules. Then post a more specific request here. I have read a ton of great books but most of them are more situational (with titles like Toxic Workplace) so it is kind of hard to recommend them to everyone. Any managers in here need to read to take an hour and read One Minute Manager. Then go real First Break All the Rules and implement the Measuring Stick with your team. It works.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2013 05:19
|
|
|
chupacabraTERROR posted:Basically I want to get into management of a startup company. I have my own, but I need a paycheck in the short term. I've considered working for a VC firm here in LA, but I'm not sure they hire people without VC experience? Anyone have any thoughts? If you want to get into management of a startup, go found or help found a startup! That is one of the best ways to get into VC in general. I have known several people who have made the transition, and it has always been from the relationships they have made with VCs (not necessarily the ones who invested with them either) as a part of a startup. This is also a pretty good read, but may be mostly what you already are working on... The LA VC market is tough, but there. Might be easier for you to look up in the bay area for someone looking to expand or is just expanding down here. What sort of industry was your website in? Perhaps there are other related avenues that would be more interesting than corporate tax? Alternatively put two years in corporate tax and actively work towards a transfer to consulting. If you like VC, big 4 consulting will get you a leg up but it is a longer play.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2013 00:50
|
|
|
chupacabraTERROR posted:Anyone with any VC analyst experience should post and tell me I'm insane! Make no bones about it, you are insane. But so are many VCs. Seems like you are at a place in life when you can be entrepreneurial so go for it, but try not to do something that really hurts long term. Big 4 ain't what it used to be but it still can be a massive career accelerator and provide another path to where you want to go.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2013 05:42
|
|
|
Oops Double post, ninja for contentAnti_Social posted:Another lost analyst here. Think about an MBA program with an IT focus rather than some kind of Econ program. Big Data may be hot right right now but there is a lot of long term value in that space in my opinion. Take the kind of analysis that you love and couple it to larger scale business problems and you become the kind of person who writes their own ticket or makes bank in consulting. Alternatively there are great Econ/IT intersects on the portfolio and investment side of IT. The CFO is becoming more critical to IT project governance and they need solid analysts.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2013 05:48
|
|
|
chupacabraTERROR posted:Yeah, pretty much. I'm going to try to stay as long as I can bear it, so probably 2 years. After that, I'll take my chances in the bay. By "doing something that really hurts long term" do you mean leaving tomorrow and joining a (funded) startup? Or do you mean something as drastic as moving back home and learning programming? I won't be doing either, but I'd at least consider the first option... Your head is in the right place. Don't bail prematurely on the big four gig and then don't be be of those guys who rides failing startup after failing startup into the ground. Having a successful startup can get you good VC contacts but you can get a bad reputation much more easily. Another path would be to find an incubator or startup like group that happens to be part of a larger organization. I saw someone parlay growing a team in a tangent business under a parent company with 100,000+ employees and come out the top with a premier VC firm. Parent company folded the startup group but in the experience this junior exec got great contacts equivalent to a home run startup venture even though it eventually failed miserably (I was a part of the team and it was a hoot). Don't limit yourself in thinking, there can be great opportunities in the strangest of places. I you really want to sell your metaphorical soul, investor activism is heating up and you could likely get into a firm with VC like mentality just from an M&A activity perspective rather than pure startup.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2013 04:42
|
|
|
chupacabraTERROR posted:Hm, I'm interested in this incubator/startup group that's part of a larger company. I've heard that Google has one of these, I think I will look into this! Do you know of any other major ones worth looking into? GoogleX is a thing, that is for sure. Jobs at Google are hard to come by. Google X, fuggedaboutit. Most tend to be more focused and specific and opportunistic rather than wholesale incubators. Maybe a large energy company sees that wireless energy meters at home are a thing and starts a group to develop a long range wireless protocol so they wouldn't have to use cellular networks, and does it more as a small team rather than a whole company. Possibilities are endless. Very large companies in general dabble in some special project. Some have proper incubators that research will reveal (see Google X). Some have wholly owned subsidiaries that do this. In my case it was a large company's telecom arm getting into a related business but requiring very different focus and skills. We were always a part of the telecom business but operated independently as a startup in practice. Your best bet will not be a large one but one you find through your network. I landed at mine because of my contacts. I literally got a call telling me to be at a certain hotel at a specific time and the guy who is now a VP found me and offered me a job. Felt very cloak and dagger. I might have been 21 at the time, if that. My guess is that there are partners at your firm who can help you make these kinds of connections.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2013 06:23
|
|
|
ProFootballGuy posted:Fantastic article on salary negotiations, especially if you're grossly underpaid already. Internal salary negotiations can limit you, so I'd highly recommend taking the promotion at whatever salary you can get, then leave the company. At your level, talking about projects you worked on and the value you brought internally is not a worthwhile exercise. Save that info for your interview with the new company, and you'll be able to double your salary. That was an incredible article, but my personal experience with internal salary negotiations early in my career was very different. I was able to double my salary twice in a couple of years by going in exactly with the value of the projects on worked and knowing my actual value in the market without having to leave. I suppose industry, location, and employer will make a huge difference in the outcome of these discussions.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2013 01:14
|
|
|
Internal raises can be really tricky. Very early in my career I was lucky to work at two different companies who did this really well and responded to my negotiations to get me from underpaid badly to where I should have been. Yes I literally doubled my income twice in 2-3 years, and I ended up in the low six figure range as a result. This was a software/engineering/consulting type field in my early twenties. I was lucky but also worked the system described and got the money based on my demonstrable value to my employer. Things are still crazy in places like India where employees get trained in a technical skill and start rotating between employers every 6-12 months and getting 30-50% each move. I did not work for an India based company until later but it was amazing to see relatively young people playing this game and watching the employers benefit of offshore labor vanish in the process. Recently I have known people who have gotten a huge raise for their workplace and quit over it. Said 'giant' raise was 3%  His replacement was 20% more expensive. :facepalm: For you managers out there, how do you handle extreme salary discrepancies?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2013 04:53
|
|
|
cheese eats mouse posted:It was another girl as a front-ender. I'm sure she left for way more cash since she went to a health care company. She was with us for 2 years exactly. Never got a chance to ask about her salary. She left quick. The 'do not talk about salaries with co-workers' clause may not be legal or enforceable in the United States. I am not a lawyer but I have had some discussions with counsel at my work, and short strokes sound like there is recent case law that reaffirms employee's rights to talk about their salary with each other if they wish to do so, and that they cannot be punished in any way for talking about it. Your state, employer, mileage, and experience may vary, so don't go and do anything stupid. Cheese-eats-mouse, it sounds like you aren't in a great place, and could probably benefit from working for a better employer. I hope there are opportunities out there for you.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
cheese eats mouse posted:Really though I'd like to get to CO or WA. Start networking now. Use LinkenIn to make some contacts. Research your target possible employers and see if they have openings or if you can figure out who the hiring managers are. I personally am always networking and looking for candidates I can hire not only now, but some time down the line. I have people across the country who, if they ever decide to move to my region, know to call me for a job. Not that I'll have one when they need it, but they have a connection. No reason why you can't do the same. Wagoneer posted:So... stay unhappy in my current consulting job with some really smart people in my industry or rejoin the agency world for a management slot with some people who seem fun but aren't really industry people? Coming out of consulting you should be able to take a step up and get paid fair market value. Yes, there are consultants who are worthless and should be shot, but a good consultant settling down to work for one company should get paid well. Think of it this way: If your new employer were to pay your consulting fee to be there full time, what would it cost? My guess is $4 when you want $1. Granted overhead and all that in a consultancy, but $1 should be viewed as cheap. I suppose the real question is 'how unhappy are you'? Alternatively, if you always wanted to be a manager, but very few management positions open up in your field you may be wise to take it. Assuming there are regular management opportunities and you don't drink yourself to sleep every night and want to slam a hand in the car door to avoid going to work, maybe 'tough it out' (holy crap, I am that guy) for now and find the management gig that is right for you at the right price with the right team.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2013 04:16
|
|
|
When I talk to candidates I tend to get to money pretty fast. My goal is that money not be the issue. I don't want to hire someone and have them worry about money or gripe that they don't make enough. I want them to be able to focus on the job and their onboarding and training and integration with the team. Some people simply require more than I can pay. Others I can make happy and a relatively low cost. Others I have to go fight with finance and sell internally so we can get them the right package. If someone is worth the high end of the scale, they are worth it. Then again I had someone go through the whole process with no sign of concern and then tell me he couldn't accept because someone else offered him a package fully $50k more than we were offering, and could not touch. Lots of wasted time, and needlessly so if the candidate had been truthful.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2013 19:52
|
|
|
Bucket Joneses posted:I thought you were using the cents as a placeholder to not reveal true salary He's the guy keeping pirate bay afloat in the DPRK data centers. Seems like a very successful negotiation though. $.08 difference is negligible, and if its the right job it seems reasonable.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2013 01:02
|
|
|
Wagoneer posted:Thanks - Just did it. Trip report: Went well. At least you were a decent human being about it. I had someone who worked for me resign recently. Said person did so via a rather strange email. On a Monday. At 5:30 in the morning. And then go off the grid completely. I don't mean to derail this thread, but when you leave your current job for something different/better, don't be a complete rear end about it. Unless you work for an employer where there are actual legal issues (I wish I could tell those stories, oh lordy), give your notice and do it in person, maybe with a simple letter they can stick in your HR file. And remember, you are not obliged to tell your employer where you are going. God forbid you admit to going to a competitor and you had a non-compete contract with the company you are leaving. I have seen that many times, and it is not fun for anyone involved. Don't burn any bridges, but don't be spouting off information that could get you in trouble. Don't brag about how you downloaded the customer list between when you accepted the new job offer and resigned at your current one. Don't admit that you want to go steal all of your old customers. Don't talk about how you are going to screw your previous employer. Just don't say anything. Give your two weeks and agree to do a nice, thorough handover of your current work assignments. Maybe you are going to a competitor and maybe they do walk you out the door immediately, but make that the company's choice, not yours.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2013 16:48
|
|
|
Holla Forth posted:First, how well does industry-specific consulting experience translate outside of that field (a lot of it seems pretty generalizable - BD strategy, product launch planning, M&A work, etc)? Secondly, my firm is very well respected in the field, but is small and totally unknown outside of it - come time to explore my options, how much of a problem will that be? Is bouncing around a lot early on in my career a really dumb idea? I don't mean leaving five jobs in two years or anything like that, but if I look around for an internal strategy or finance job in a totally different field and don't like that better, will I end up just looking unfocused and screwing myself over in both areas? And, finally, how does internal work compare to something like consulting (mostly with regard to lifestyle/hours, but also in advancement opportunity/anything else that might be relevant). Industry specific consulting can be hard to translate, but you accurately generalized the approach to identifying transferable skills. Some industries may have more overlap than others. More importantly coming from management consulting will be the overall approach and methods for identifying and solving customer pain and problems. That being said, I could not walk onto an oil derrick and tell them how to achieve operational efficiency even though I could do so in an IT shop with my eyes closed. Small firms tend to not be a problem. If you can walk into an interview, or even better, establish a network, where you can talk about your skills and accomplishments you should end up being a credible candidate. Worst case you might have to explain about your firm. Too small can be a problem. I interviewed a person who worked for a 'small' IT consulting firm that turned out to be him and a few friends and it wasn't even really a viable business (hence he was seeking full time employment). As for bouncing around, if you are very early in your career it may not hurt badly but it will likely not help either until you get established in a field and show consistent experience. Consulting/outside work is indeed a very different lifestyle from inside work. I tend to interview more the other way (inside people moving outside), and I have to be very clear that it is a totally lifestyle change. Routine (if there is one) is very different, schedule and work hours, travel, and so forth. Moving from outside to the inside, especially coming from management consulting should get you a step up in the process. To grossly over-generalize If you are a manager level management consultant you would take a directorship on the inside (or higher, director might be considered a lateral move in some cases). When that time comes you should have some good mentors and advisers to help you through that process and analysis (or you can become the ultimate thread necromancer). Some unsolicited advice: Do good work. Seek out and work with the best people you can. Never stop looking for opportunities to improve in what you do and how you do it. And start building and maintaining your network now. In consulting your network, especially one started from early in your career, can help you through decades of career growth, even if you make some changes along the way.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 2, 2013 04:47
|
|
|
Julio Cesar Fatass posted:Having a BBA and being in CRM has made me very conscious of how much of a soft-skill glut there is in the marketplace right now. While trying to fill a position in my team I've interviewed people with decades of marketing and demand generation experience who were desperate to get into the tech field and learn a hard skill - any hard skill. If anyone else gets something from this thread, please let it be this:  Never, ever let up on your professional development.It doesn't matter how old or young or what your field. I have a guy on my team quite a bit older than me who is a total stud in no small part because he has always kept learning new things and is picking up whatever I need him to learn. I had another guy about his age burn out after a year because he didn't work his plan, got frustrated, and quit. Keep changing to meet market demands and reinvent yourself if you have to. Plan that everything you know technically is going to be obsolete in three or five years.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Ragingsheep posted:What's the best way to calculate how much you're worth to your company when asking for pay increases? For example, last year I worked and implemented a new product by myself (others helped in various stages but only I had the technical know how to make it work). If my company went and got some external consultants to do it, it'd probably cost them $20,000+ all up but at the same time, it'll be a bit more fancy and robust. Do I get to say that I should be paid a sizable proportion of that $20,000 or is it just an input that goes into that overall calculations? This can be somewhat of a tricky question and can be very dependent on your industry and job. The easiest situation like this I experienced was when I did consulting work for which the customer paid. I was able to show exactly how much billings I brought in, and that I took home far too little a portion of that money (I think I billed over $400k and earned under a hundred fully loaded). Your doing work as a part of the job that meant that the company didn't have to bring in external consultants could easily be viewed as just being part of your job. If you implemented a product, did your company save money as a result of using the product? Is the product something your company can sell or otherwise use to generate revenue? Think about the full benefit you bring your employer, and how that compares to your full package of salary and benefits and taxes. If you don't contribute to revenue generation then you are expense and need to work really hard to justify your job, let alone a $20k raise. It can be done just recognize the challenge and step up to it.
|
|
#
¿
May 27, 2013 20:22
|
|
|
ProFootballGuy posted:Adding on to this, from your company's perspective it's not just "you" who did the job. They had to find the client, build the relationship with the client, and sell the client on the services. You might have done the actual work, but from the company's perspective you're one of dozens of engineers who "could" have done the work they positioned and sold. Unless you're truly amazing, your "talents" are somewhat fungible. This describes my early career path pretty well actually, and I didn't even key on it from the original question. I helped implement a piece of software for my employer. I did a pretty good job and took to it naturally, and that very quickly turned into a professional services/consulting gig (but not for the software vendor but a reseller/implementor more local to where I lived). Professional Services and Consulting did very well for me. Ragingsheep posted:Its a small company (around 50 people). I should point out that what I did would be considered outside the scope of my responsibilities. I could've easily said that it wasn't achievable. I don't expect $20k, but I was just wondering if there are any sort of guidance for this sort of thing. Document it as one of your achievements but don't expect anything. Raimundus posted:Generally speaking, when is it appropriate to ask for a raise? My last raise was in January, but I didn't ask for it. I was thinking of giving it a shot come July. People where I work don't even get raises yearly, heck for some it has been 4-5 years. Seriously. If they do regular raises where you work, go on that schedule. If I just got a raise in January I would still be thankful in December. I'm sure there are people who get raises every six months, so you might be in a different situation. As for when it is appropriate: when you are clearly making a contribution to the business above the level and/or pay grade is a pretty good time.
|
|
#
¿
May 28, 2013 03:06
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:We are, and he's been pretty open in sharing his frustrations after the announcement, so I think this part is good. Unfortunately, we're at different locations so there's 0% chance of just bumping into him, or even going for lunch, really. Still, we're scheduled to have at least one last call before he leaves, so that would probably be the last chance. It would be worth a try, at least, as I doubt he'd get pissed off and fire me as his last decision before leaving Unless you totally misread the interaction you described, he was opening the door for you to have the conversation. Just as he said he would people like you, you can say something like you will miss working for him, and would be open to future possibilities to work together in the future. If your relationship with him is good enough, just straight up have the conversation 'is there room for me on your new team?' JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:25 year old trying to decide between a leadership role of individual contributors, management and consulting. Currently, I'm at a great masters program for a social science, but I'm learning less hard skills than I initially hoped for. Essentially the only hard skills I've learned so far are Statistics and G.I.S. At the school I have the opportunity to go for a dual degree of Masters of Urban Planning and M.B.A which would be completed in 3 years total (2.5 to go!). The regular urban planning program will be completed in 1.5 years. A couple of my professors have strongly recommended I pursue the dual degree opportunity. The urban planning program is highly ranked, but the business school not so much. At my last employment I took an active (unpaid and beyond listed responsibilities) in educating new hires. I excelled at my old job and my supervisors loved me. While pursuing my studies, I now have a part time job as a middle school teacher. I'm going to join the local toastmasters chapter (thanks to this thread!). Leadership: This can mean many things to many people, and has the bonus of being rather contextual. In the military a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) could be viewed as a position of leadership. You are right in that you can be an Individual Contributor with Leadership but no management. A guy on my team used to have this at the bottom of his email, and is totally relevant: "Leadership is a position of Responsibility, not Authority." Management: You are responsible for, accountable for, and have authority over a team. You make decisions about hiring and firing (in most cases at least, and the latter usually involves HR). Management requires a completely new and additional set of skills from being an individual contributor on the team you manage. If you are getting an MBA, you might be getting some of those skills, or you might not. There are many, many bad managers out there. Don't be one of them. Learn the craft of management and seek to be the best boss your employees have ever had. That was my goal becoming a manager, and it has served me well, creating a very loyal team who is generally happy and will do crazy hard work if needed even without being asked. Consulting: Clients pay you to either tell them what to do or do things for them. I have done both sorts, and it can be fun and rewarding and challenging and also drive you batshit insane. Until you are a credible expert in your field, expect to be chasing billable hours doing work for clients who don't care about what you have to say and just want to do whatever task they are paying $250 and hour for you to do. If you can get enough experience and make a name for yourself, then you can actually do higher level consulting and guidance and get brought in to really make changes for a client and tell them all the ways they have been doing things wrong and how to fix it. Perhaps the holy grail here is to become a 'Management Consultant.' I haven't met one in Urban Planning, doesn't mean they don't exist though.
|
|
#
¿
May 29, 2013 00:37
|
|
|
Consulting can also bring in big bucks and can in the right circumstance provide a path to management. Since you are still planning, make sure you plan on being flexible! No sense on setting a plan in stone just now.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2013 06:00
|
|
|
Get the MBA. I have met many people in many fields who wished they had an MBA (or were glad they had one) but rare is the person who has said, "Wow I am glad I have <masters degree>, but my MBA sure is useless." If anything your MBA could translate lots of places that an Urban Planning or other specific maters degree would not.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2013 03:47
|
|
|
corkskroo posted:Don't be anxious. I've gone through this a couple times. You can never really assume you're a shoe-in since that's foolish but if you were suggested to apply then they might have the position in mind for you. Even if they don't and it's wide open (or they have someone else in mind for it) putting in a good performance now will help down the road. Treat it like a real interview. You have a shared vocab with the interviewers because they know the work but try to find some ways to surprise them with aspects of your work that they don't know or impacts you've made that they haven't seen. Have you solved a problem in a way that was too technical to bubble up to management? Find a way to break that down for them in the interview so you get the credit you deserved. This is excellent advice. Couple that humility by knowing your business stone cold. Have examples ready to go for work that you have done or are doing that is at the III level. Demonstrate that you know it inside and out and have the skills and competencies to excel at that role (if it is different from a II). If you are nervous, try role playing with someone. Make them act like the interviewer and give them questions you are likely to be asked, and see how you do. Nothing wrong with a little practice.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 7, 2013 00:02
|
|
|
JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Does anybody have any text recommendations? Primal Leadership by Goleman, McKee, et al Robert E Lee on Leadership by Crocker First Break All the Rules, by Buckingham and Coffman Primal Leadership is probably the best of the bunch for your research area, since it covers emotional intelligence extremely well. First Break All the Rules should be required reading for anyone who works with other people. Seriously.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 24, 2013 20:36
|
|
|
Ninja double post for content: I got promoted to senior manager  This means I keep my existing team as well as get a new manager and his team as a second line manager. Developing this new guy, who just got promoted to manager, should be a lot of fun. Now I just need to start being a visible leader to other managers as well and hopefully get tapped for a directorship when one becomes available perhaps when the poles have finished melting
|
|
#
¿
Jun 24, 2013 20:41
|
|
|
Aerofallosov posted:I am not sure if this quite belongs here, but I figured it wasn't big enough to warrant a thread. You should be able to get lots of advice here. Call center work is pretty broad. Does your experience cover any specific industry? Do you do customer service or technical support or data entry or take orders? Depending on the industry or the type of calls, you may have options. Too many for us to give advice without some direction from you. If it is a worst case scenario, no industry and you and just entering data like a robot, some context about your work environment would be useful. There are strategies for dealing with a repetitive workplace that can help you get through while you work on your exit. Worst worst case: be the best call taker in the history of call centers. Study it like it is a pro sport and master the game. Figure out every trick and technique in the book. Then go run a call center someplace else if they don't give give you the one where you are now.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 25, 2013 05:24
|
|
|
Aerofallosov posted:Well. I've done support as a tech support for DSL and a school campus (windows, SAP, academic software, Banner). I also did support as a managed services help desk person and we worked with Siebel, some oracle, AT&T inventory management and a few other things. I know I've been working at going into an entry level biology job since I am only a few credits short of an Aquatic Biology degree. Look for help desk, IT support, technician kind of jobs. Ideally look for something that is field support, at least you would get to go to different offices (or areas of offices) rather than just being on the phone. You might need to take a help desk job with a company to prove you are competent before they let you in the field, but consider that path. You have lots of skills that translate directly into that kind of job. Heck, I got my start doing help desk work for a university that that has lead to a very rewarding career. Kirex posted:What I'm asking is Get a new job Raimundus posted:Now, the one year mark is coming up in November, and I would really like to transplant myself to a new city sometime afterward. I currently live in New Hampshire, but I'd like to move to the Portland or Seattle areas to get a taste of another part of the country. Is applying to jobs in faraway cities any different from applying within driving distance? How can I get my foot in the door and meet people in cities I've never visited? Are Skype and phone calls acceptable mediums for job interviews? Etc. The Pacific Northwest in general, Oregoon in particular, is a very hard market to break into. Unless you have a particular skill that can get you in at a particular company hiring that skill, expect to send a lot of resumes and take a lot of phone screens before you fly out (hopefully on their dime) for interviews in person. I don't know what it is about the PNW, maybe they just really don't like outsiders. The only people I know who have transitioned successfully are ones who have relocated for an existing job they already had, for a company who wanted them to do that job in Oregon or Seattle. I have known many people follow their dreams to move there only burn through savings and have to leave. YMMV If I were in your position, I would assemble a 'target list' of companies in (city) that could possibly use someone with your special and unique skills. There are plenty of online ways to research companies. Once you have the general list, check out the website for each of them and get a sense if they are hiring, and if they are for what sorts of jobs. Even if a position isn't open that suits you, you need to know who is hiring. Then its a numbers game. Get your resume and a smartly worded letter out to those companies. Hopefully your research gets you a contact list of hiring managers or HR or recruiting or staffing people. I actually got an email from someone a few weeks ago from someone who found me and was basically 'I want to work at your company, for you.' I put that resume above several that were supposedly well qualified by headhunters. Dude has the skills I need, which would have been a dealbreaker if he didn't, hence doing your research and targeting the right places is important.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 25, 2013 14:12
|
|
|
NicelyNice posted:Cross-posting this from the COBOL Cavern in SH/SC for more general career advice: Check your PMs sir. For those of you looking for advice, this was a very good post. I would guess that many people here have advice for Mr NicelyNice.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 27, 2013 06:50
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:Look for jobs using the keywords Stata, SPSS and R. This Xovaan posted:I don't wanna get a CPA. Not this. A CPA with worth money. Yes, it is hard, but so far as I know there is a significant lack of new CPAs compared to future demand. Set up the rest of your life now by getting a CPA. There are lots of things you can do with it.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2013 04:57
|
|
|
cheese eats mouse posted:Since March I've been covering for the front-end work of our agency so I've been covering two jobs without any increase in compensation. There seem to be multiple issues in your post. First is that you are 'covering' extra work and that may have become full time in addition to your other job (you don't state your other job really, though it probably has to do with coding or web design?). Have you had the discussion with your boss about those extra duties and when you will either be compensated for them or when they will end? As for your raise, how long has the carrot been dangled? An employer waiting to give a raise to someone until they have been there a year is pretty standard. Did they promise you something different in the past? As for jumping ship, your summary of background and job changes would already be a red flag to me if I were interviewing you, moreso if you changed again. If you are in a BAD work environment get out of there but if you can tough it out your future employers will likely take you more seriously. Moving out of state is yet another entirely different topic. Start looking NOW for where you want to move and what job opportunities are there. Maybe by the time you have been at your current job for a year you will know where you want to live and have made progress with potential employers in that location!
|
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2013 21:29
|
|
|
kells posted:And an employer expecting their employee to do two people's jobs for the price of one isn't? Hence the need for the employee to have a candid and honest discussion with the employer. Even to get on the same page as to expectations would be good for both parties, if not fix the problem. Maybe the employer decided to change the job description and have the person do both jobs forever (queue employee exit), but maybe the employer doesn't know it's a problem because the employee is doing it so well. So many times people avoid these conversations until it is too late and the employee quits or is termed.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2013 03:37
|
|
|
Shadowhand00 posted:The biggest thing coming out of the meeting is that I need to start learning how to be a much more strategic thinker. Does that basically mean I need to be able to anticipate what executives want to hear and be able to communicate to them in a way that makes sense to them? There has been a lot of good feedback about *strategic thinking* and the fact that it can mean all sorts of different things. There are also many books and videos and courses on Strategic Thinking, and I have gone through Anticipating the needs of the business is really important, so don't lose sight of that. However, if you are in a certain industry, understanding of trends and futures in that industry is also important. I just interviewed a candidate who claimed to be an expert in something that has/is part of Information Technology, and I asked 'Where is (x) going, what is the future for (x)?' I got like three stories of what people wanted at his last three jobs around (x) but no sense for what is happening in the market. The correct answer would have been 'Consumerisation of IT, Mobility, and incorporating Social and other new media types to reduce IT Friction.' Last bit of advice: Never stop asking 'Why?' Ask Why relentlessly and about everything. If you can understand why a certain thing is or is not happening or 'what if' things happened because of 'Why' you will gain a very strategic view of things. Then present facts, reason, and logic to recommend a course of action and you will be a hero, even if they don't take your advice (just don't be too  about telling them I told you so later).
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2013 22:06
|
|
|
Bloodbath posted:I'm just so bored of it though and for years have wanted to leave, I always take discussions like this with a few questions. Introspection time: What have you enjoyed most doing at work lately? What have you enjoyed the least (again, AT WORK)? What about your job do you wish you did more? Less? What motivates you? Demotivates you? Are there other interests or passions that you have outside of work? Would your current job benefit from some of those interests? (1) Do you have other work experience in other fields that you would like to revisit? How can you spin your current work into something relative to go back into that field? But really, focus on what you have liked and disliked and try to find a way to get into a position where you do what you like. No sitting on your rear end and (1) I actually had someone incorporate cycling analogies into his work and it made him much more passionate when presenting work topics
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2013 22:11
|
|
|
ILoveYou posted:Hello goons. Struggling with a career path choice for myself here. Your choices aren't at all comparable. First, how does moving to the southeast get your girlfriend closer to her family? Figure out location first, unless the southeast job is really all that ad a bag of chips (your own description makes it sound like it isn't). Are there jobs in your career area in Chicagoland? Keep in mind you would start from scratch in a development career, meaning possibly less money. My recommendation: keep Ruby as a hobby, pursue careering the area you want to live. Break apart all the issues and look at them separately. Some will be more important than others. Mary loving Poppins posted:I'm a little confused about how pay works when compared to an independent contractor. I'm considering a job with a consulting company who would offer the position as an independent contractor or an employee of the consulting company itself. If they say that the job is $X per her and to increase that if pursuing as an independent contractor or decrease that if pursing as a full-time employee, how much does that generally slide in each direction? I'd more than likely pursue as a full-time employee, but I don't really have an idea of how much the annual salary would actually be. I'm intending on asking more about that with the recruiter, but the more information I have ahead of time the more comfortable I'd be. Do you want to pay for your own insurance and taxes? There are some people who prefer contracting and are set up to do that stuff on their own and feel like it is better. Others prefer being a corporate employee and getting regular benefits and such. You would have to look t taxes and benefits and such in your area of residence and compare the contractor rate less all that other stuff against the salary they offer (and other benefits). The decision for you boils down to this: have you done contracting in the past and are you comfortable with that setup? If they answer isn't a resounding YES just take it as a corporate job.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2013 03:03
|
|
|
Ragingsheep posted:Any general tips for going into a review? I'm expecting it to be pretty positive but I'm hoping to either get a transfer to a new overseas office that's opening up or into another line of work. Also hopefully more money. In the past, I've just taken the offer on the table but apparently everyone is telling me that I should be negotiating all my raises. Some advice will differ based on your employers process around reviews and moves. Does your boss or whoever is doing your review know that you want to move to the new overseas office or move into a different line of work? Not every office culture is accepting of such things, but if you worked for me I would definitely want to know those things. If the offer is done at the end of the review, you should position yourself in advance so they can do their homework. If the review is your chance to present yourself and your impact on the business, go prepared. Actually know how you benefit the business. Have Metrics and Data. Either before or during the review the company needs to know what you want and the priority of those things. Would you take more money to stay where you are vs. a transfer to a new line of work for the same money? Will you quit if you don't get the overseas transfer? It is much easier to have conversations like this with all parties prepared vs. a total surprise. I have had them in both situations, but your work environment will dictate if they are open to your priming the pump so to speak before your review meeting.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2013 14:53
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
ExcessiveForce posted:Not sure if this is there correct place to ask about this but thought maybe some insight could be offered. Retroactive is tough since you were also doing your old job. Maybe a bonus in consideration for the work, but likely the pay increase is what you get and the past work was really sunk cost for you to earn the promotion. That being said, negotiate your rump off. Everything is negotiable and if they hit the wall for salary look at the bigger picture and think about other non cash stuff that has value to you.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2013 07:01
|
|