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N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


Last one apparently bit the dust, time for a new one. Discuss all forms of reenactment here, feel free to plug your groups and post reports from events.



What is Re-Enacting?
Re-enacting generally involves dressing up, and re-living the days of yore, be they the days of the 18th Century, with musket armed Frenchies shooting at musket armed Brits, to Vietnam with Caucasians pretending to be Asian and living in mud holes for a few hours, and everything in between. Some groups just perform shows at festivals, but many also do living history, meaning that they speak, act and live as they would have in era they are reenacting for the period of the reenactment event.

An example of living history would be a group living in a WWI trench for a weekend, living off rations they would have been issued, and taking pot shots at a second group in a trench in the opposite side of the field. This would be an event for the re-enactors to enjoy, sometimes shows (scripted, or improvised) are performed for crowds, such as what you can see at Tank Fest. All in all, it's about having fun with your comrades, certainly more exciting than playing CoD2.

Can I be a re-enactor?
Probably. Most groups are accepting of all members, despite there being some physical standards that should be adhered to for historical accuracy, most groups are willing to over look them. Ask your local re-enactment group for details on requirements to join.


Is there drinking?
By the bucketload. Though, feel assured that the real heavy drinking comes after the guns are away, safety first and all.

What would I need?
The group I'm involved with (WWII Re-enactment) requires you to first attend at least one event as a non-member, get an idea of what's going on, see how it works, see if it's for you, before you spend any money. Then investing in a uniform is wise, WWII era uniforms cost around 200-300 euros for a fairly generic load out of any Army, and then you build up on that. Eventually you will be asked to apply for a firearms license and to start using your own weapons; this is how it works here, you local gun laws may vary.


Shut up and show me the goods.
Have some pictures. Pictures are courtesy of my comrades from Battlefront Living History Malta.





Reenactment Groups: (Give me links and I'll add them)
Battlefront Living History Group Malta
2nd Massachusetts Reg't

Equipment Sources: From personal experience, YMMV.
http://www.ebay.com - Good for picking up second hand gear, and misc-knick-knacks to complete a uniform. Would not buy uniforms from here. Just equipment.
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk - Excellent site, huge variety, though their repro-sources do change from time to time and their "combo packs" tend to not be worth it. Shipping is quite expensive.
http://onlinemilitaria.com - Good site. Good quality products, lots of variety, has some items SoF doesn't.
http://www.zib-militaria.de/en_GB - Good side for equipment, mainly German/Russian. US/British is somewhat limited. Reliable source.

N17R4M fucked around with this message at Oct 24, 2014 around 18:44

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Colonial Air Force
May 22, 2002

Bombing Redcoats since 1775.


Reposting my family photo:


I'm with the 2nd Massachusetts Reg't., recreating the American War for Independence. Currently I'm the company's Sergeant, which is a lot of fun.

Most reenacting is similar regardless of the era, but feel free to ask any questions about my era and I'll answer them directly.

N17R4M: You left out all the drinking.

Neorxenawang
Jun 9, 2003


I've always thought reenacting could be fun, but as far as I can tell I live in a dead zone for participating organizations (East TN).

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

Proč bychom se netěšili když nám Pán Bůh zdraví dá?


WWII selfie time!



I'm lucky enough to live in PA which is dead center of the 20th century reenacting world. This event was the first one I'd been able to go to in, like, two years. It was cold. I had fun.

What's it like in Europe? Here in America, we love remembering our wars. I'd figure that in most of Europe people are sketchy about that sort of stuff given how so many of said wars were fought there.

Also Malta looks a LOT like Rome. I didn't know that.

Colonial Air Force posted:

N17R4M: You left out all the drinking.

This is important

Scratch Monkey fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2013 around 02:26

Colonial Air Force
May 22, 2002

Bombing Redcoats since 1775.


Neorxenawang posted:

I've always thought reenacting could be fun, but as far as I can tell I live in a dead zone for participating organizations (East TN).

I'd be really shocked if Eastern Tennessee didn't have some Civil War units, at least.

Neorxenawang
Jun 9, 2003


Colonial Air Force posted:

I'd be really shocked if Eastern Tennessee didn't have some Civil War units, at least.

I think there are a few, but I've already bought a nerdy amount of WW2 poo poo just because! I really don't get it, to be honest...even the gun shows here are like this totally fuddy black hole with barely anything milsurp for sale. Guns are like the only benefit of living in a red state...Oh well, at least it's pretty here!

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005

I know what you want. I know what you need.

I tried re-enacting a couple of times.

I went as a German.

Turns out A LOT of the pretend Germans were actual Nazis.

I left after they sang "Sechs millionen ist nicht genug" and never went back.

Neorxenawang
Jun 9, 2003


mikerock posted:

I tried re-enacting a couple of times.

I went as a German.

Turns out A LOT of the pretend Germans were actual Nazis.

I left after they sang "Sechs millionen ist nicht genug" and never went back.

Jesus. Stay classy, Nazis. That's another reason I'm wary of Civil War units...it seems like the locals are all Confederate (even though this area was largely Unionist).

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

In short, as the owner/operator of both a dick and a set of (admittedly male) nipples I'm not entirely sure that Suetonius is writing about impossibilities here.

You all can have all the fun you want dressing in silly costumes and drinking booze. Seriously, bet you're having more fun this weekend than me.

Just understand that if you think you're "living history" . . . you aren't.

N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


Scratch Monkey posted:

What's it like in Europe? Here in America, we love remembering our wars. I'd figure that in most of Europe people are sketchy about that sort of stuff given how so many of said wars were fought there.

Also Malta looks a LOT like Rome. I didn't know that.

We've had some Germans come by our displays, none took it personally that we have people dressed in SS/Heer/LW uniforms. At that particular occasion we were doing a static display, and teaching the general public some history, everyone seemed to enjoy it; except one American, who came up to me and told me off for holding a Sten (I'm the guy with the Sten in the photos) that was pointed at someone's leg. Keep in mind, we had no ammuntion for it, I had done NSPs each time I picked it up, and the bolt was closed. He still went on to complain to our safety officer that what if 'the kid shot someone's legs off!?'

There is a lot of limestone in Maltese architecture, and a lot of churches, so you may notice that similarity. A few Roman ruins here and there too.

And of course, we do have one or two nazi fetishists, as all reenactment groups do.

EDIT: VVV Sorry for double post. No idea what happened there.

N17R4M fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2013 around 08:16

N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


Edit - Whoops.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

Dr. Pre-Med Student C. Bear knows a thing or two about medicine. Why, just the other day in lab, he learned

Cyrano4747 posted:


Just understand that if you think you're "living history" . . . you aren't.

Thats because living history involves staying up til 3am trying desperately to restore your Endnote library after it got corrupted...

LingcodKilla
Dec 28, 2002

BUY MORE CRABS


Cyrano4747 posted:

You all can have all the fun you want dressing in silly costumes and drinking booze. Seriously, bet you're having more fun this weekend than me.

Just understand that if you think you're "living history" . . . you aren't.

Tell us how you really feel. I always felt the living history part was much less for us than for the public in general. A few of our battles were open to the public with them wandering through the camps asking questions and getting to try on the gear. The same goes for public appearances at parades.





Public battle with about 200 people watching us.



I'm riding under the barrel.





I lost my pictures of my 300lb+ nazi running around but I'm sure it wouldnt be that hard to replicate.

LingcodKilla fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2013 around 13:22

Algoblintypecrit
Oct 7, 2010

,,I'm a hungry man, but I don't want pizza...''


Scratch Monkey posted:


What's it like in Europe? Here in America, we love remembering our wars. I'd figure that in most of Europe people are sketchy about that sort of stuff given how so many of said wars were fought there.


Europe faced hundreds of wars, and I saw that the re-enactment movement has it pretty well in most countries.

And the fact that european wars happened where they happened only makes it better- say in many countries we'd call eastern Europe the local authorities are actively seeking re-enactor groups to "take care" of old forts, castles and various other historical sites. That is, to be active every day (for the tourists), have a meeting spot for drill and target practice and, when another comemoration comes, to meet up with other actors of a given era to do the whole battle. Which looks great, especially the napoleonic battles.

Of course, some events are less glorious to present- every battle could have been a massacre but when something is called "a killing" rather than "a battle", or if it's an event that still is a tense subject of some nations' history (and just about every country has bad blood with a neighbour over SOME incidents), it probably won't be flamboyantly re-enacted.

What looks like a very positive aspect of re-enactment in Europe, though, is international cooperation. Granted, most participants will almost always be from the "host" country, the place where the battle happened. But Swedish dragoons, German riflemen and Spanish knights visiting Poland, The Czech Republic, France? That's a great thing, because both sides can celebrate, but not by spreading hatred and grief over the past.

(Sorry for the martyrologic wall of text!)

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

Proč bychom se netěšili když nám Pán Bůh zdraví dá?


Colonial Air Force posted:

I'd be really shocked if Eastern Tennessee didn't have some Civil War units, at least.

What's the state of civil war reenacting nowadays? It used to pretty much be the only game in town.

N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


LingcodKilla posted:

Tell us how you really feel. I always felt the living history part was much less for us than for the public in general. A few of our battles were open to the public with them wandering through the camps asking questions and getting to try on the gear. The same goes for public appearances at parades.

Your pictures aren't loading for me.

Algoblintypecrit makes a good point in Reenactment groups caretaking many old forts, we've been given the keys to a WWII bunker and a Victorian era gun battery (which saw service in WWII), given that we are there once a month for a few hours to tour the general public. Gives us an HQ, gives the local council something to advertise, win-win situation.

One problem we have here in Malta is that there are no wide open areas, and the fields tend to be divided into small parts, so if we were to make a full scale march or die, we'd need permits from a number of councils and dozens of people. Nonetheless, we are working one one for this spring, with a few reenactors possibly coming down from England.


VVVV - I love how each of the Germans has a different pose, despite being at attention.

N17R4M fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2013 around 14:08

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

Proč bychom se netěšili když nám Pán Bůh zdraví dá?


I know they like WWII reenacting in the Czech Republic. I've stumbled on a bunch of them while there. The inter-war period is sort of a golden age for Czech people, so they tend to romanticize the 30s a lot. This includes even the war, surprisingly. Or maybe not so surprisingly, for even though the Czechs were more or less forced to hand over their country for occupation many Czech men fought bravely for other nations or in the underground. Also the Czech Republic is one of the few European nations (that I know of) that doesn't have laws against publicly wearing Nazi symbols, so a lot of other Central and Western european reenactors like to road trip there so they can actually wear their uniforms 100% properly



Father-in-law with some Germans



My then girlfriend/now wife humoring my goony rear end by posing with two German reenactors (this time here in the US)

(faces blurred to protect the innocent)

Scratch Monkey fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2013 around 14:09

Colonial Air Force
May 22, 2002

Bombing Redcoats since 1775.


Scratch Monkey posted:

What's the state of civil war reenacting nowadays? It used to pretty much be the only game in town.

As far as I'm aware, it's still the biggest. WWII seems to be picking up a lot lately, though.

I live in New England, so we have plenty of AWI, which is great for me.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

...essence


Does that tank say "Defeat Iran!" on the side?

Colonial Air Force
May 22, 2002

Bombing Redcoats since 1775.


Inspector_71 posted:

Does that tank say "Defeat Iran!" on the side?

Detroit Iron.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

...essence


That makes so much more sense.

N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


LingcodKilla posted:

Tell us how you really feel. I always felt the living history part was much less for us than for the public in general. A few of our battles were open to the public with them wandering through the camps asking questions and getting to try on the gear. The same goes for public appearances at parades.

Got the pictures to load in a different browser. Nice Sherman, what's it like fighting side by side with armor?

Wish we had a Matilda down here, or a PZIII, alas even if we could afford the operating cost, we would have nowhere to drive it around. Local roads being poo poo enough without tanks driving on them, coincidentally the same reason one of the member's halftracks is never used.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

In short, as the owner/operator of both a dick and a set of (admittedly male) nipples I'm not entirely sure that Suetonius is writing about impossibilities here.

LingcodKilla posted:

Tell us how you really feel. I always felt the living history part was much less for us than for the public in general. A few of our battles were open to the public with them wandering through the camps asking questions and getting to try on the gear. The same goes for public appearances at parades.


I've typed this up in much longer detail in other threads that have come up on this subject, but it basically boils down to this:

1) If you're having fun running around dressed like a soldier from whenever and trying to create authentic reenactments, keep on keeping on. I'm not trying to tell anyone what they can or can't do with their free time.

2) If you're helping keep some old landmark, battlefield, bunker, etc. from falling victim to development or dilapidation, good on you. More people need to do that poo poo, and if dressing up for the public gets the visitors (and their money) that are necessary to keep poo poo like that maintained then keep on keeping on.

3) If you're educating the kiddies about your gear and whatnot, cool. My only caveat is that you need to make sure that the info you're giving out is accurate. Believe me, I'm all for raising general awareness that neat stuff happened in the past and trying to make learning about it fun.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I have no problem with reenactments in and of themselves.

That said, there are a couple of things that need to be considered:

1) the "living history" angle gets over played. You can't remove events from their contexts and still have them be meaningful. As a reenactor you aren't gaining any insight into what it was like to be a member of the Waffen SS or a Colonial mlitiaman or whatever precisely BECAUSE you are a 21st century American, and not an early 20th century German or a mid 18th century New Yorker. There is an entire cultural and mental framework that those people were working in back then that you simply don't have access to. This might seem nitpicky, but it's not a small point. People make all sorts of assumptions about the world around them and do things for all sorts of different reasons that are firmly rooted in the time, place, and society that they are part of. Whether you want to call this "World-view" or "mindset" or "mentality" or however else you choose to describe it, it pervades just about every aspect of what we do and how we react to the world around us. If you are interested in this and want to read a far better articulation of it than I am managing check out Robert Darton's The Great Cat Massacre. His discussion of this issue in there is the best I've yet found.

2) People running these events and people participating in them all too frequently try to whitewash away the unpleasant aspects of it. Whether it's German WW2 reenactors trying to divorce what they're doing from political National Socialism and the racial policies of the Third Reich or Civil War reenactors insisting that they don't have to address slavery at all because they're concentrating on this one battle and not the political issues at stake in the war, it's far too common. This is very closely related to my point about cultural and mental frameworks. Even if it may be true that not every member of the Wehrmacht was a Nazi, it does remain true that every member of the Wehrmacht was living in a German society where it was illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews.

Note that I am not saying that these issues have to be front-and-centered all the time. If your narrow objective is to create a representation of how the soldiers manning a bunker in France would have looked and how they might have gone about their daily business (show the tourists what all the doo dads were for and how they worked, etc) great, go ahead with that. Just understand that at that point you're down to showcasing very narrow aspects of a single piece of local history completely outside of the larger historical context.

A lot of it boils down to the difference between 'education' and 'research.' As an example, I think what Bill Nye does is awesome, and I'm not going to bag on him for using comedy to teach kids about science. But within the context of the show he's not a scientist and he's not expanding our fundamental understanding of anything in any way. In a similar way, reenactment can be a useful educational tool but it doesn't actually expand our understanding of the era and the people who lived then. To get at that you need to work with things that the actors themselves actually wrote, said, and did and not simply mimic them.

The one thing I want to make abundantly clear is that I have absolutely no problem with anyone doing an activity that they enjoy. My only reservations with reenacting are the claims made by some that doing so is a way to learn or experience what it was like to be doing those things back then or that it is a useful tool for expanding our understanding of a period. The other thing I want to make crystal clear is that my usual exposure to reenactors aren't what I will assume are the vast majority of the people who enjoy it as a fun hobby - which I presume makes up most of this thread. The ones who usually seek out academic historians are precisely the ones who make the most grandiose claims about reenactment being a form of historical research or how they now understand what it was like being a Union soldier in the 1860s or whatever.

tl;dr - it's not "living history" it's creating a modern representation of historical events, and while it has educational value it has essentially no utility for research or developing new insights about the past beyond - possibly - some very narrow, technical matters.

Colonial Air Force
May 22, 2002

Bombing Redcoats since 1775.


That's all well and good, Cyrano, but if I hadn't been a reenactor, I never would have known just how long it takes to get my dick out of my breeches when I need to piss.

That's not something you can learn in your stuffy history books, professor!

N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


Cyrano4747 posted:

2) People running these events and people participating in them all too frequently try to whitewash away the unpleasant aspects of it. Whether it's German WW2 reenactors trying to divorce what they're doing from political National Socialism and the racial policies of the Third Reich or Civil War reenactors insisting that they don't have to address slavery at all because they're concentrating on this one battle and not the political issues at stake in the war, it's far too common. This is very closely related to my point about cultural and mental frameworks. Even if it may be true that not every member of the Wehrmacht was a Nazi, it does remain true that every member of the Wehrmacht was living in a German society where it was illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews.

I dunno. I've met my share of German reenactors who are very much nazis...

It is impossible to create living history as you describe it, true living history. The definition we (my group) go by is that you stay in character, you put on a facade and act like they would have. No, it's not perfect. No it will not teach you anything you (as the reenactor) wouldn't know already, but it will teach the public. During war games (where the public is not present) we are more focused on the combat/survival aspect then the political situation and what flavor of jokes to use.

Colonial Air Force, what's the average time?

Colonial Air Force
May 22, 2002

Bombing Redcoats since 1775.


Typically I go when I really NEED to go, so I can't time it, but there are 4 large buttons I have to take down, a waistcoat and shirt to lift, then the underwear....

Modern pants have a zipper and a quick flick of the wrist, dick out, urinating.

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

Proč bychom se netěšili když nám Pán Bůh zdraví dá?


Can you definitively say that pants pissing was more common in the 18th century?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

Dr. Pre-Med Student C. Bear knows a thing or two about medicine. Why, just the other day in lab, he learned

Cyrano4747 posted:

I've typed this up in much longer detail in other threads that have come up on this subject, but it basically boils down to this:

1) If you're having fun running around dressed like a soldier from whenever and trying to create authentic reenactments, keep on keeping on. I'm not trying to tell anyone what they can or can't do with their free time.

2) If you're helping keep some old landmark, battlefield, bunker, etc. from falling victim to development or dilapidation, good on you. More people need to do that poo poo, and if dressing up for the public gets the visitors (and their money) that are necessary to keep poo poo like that maintained then keep on keeping on.

3) If you're educating the kiddies about your gear and whatnot, cool. My only caveat is that you need to make sure that the info you're giving out is accurate. Believe me, I'm all for raising general awareness that neat stuff happened in the past and trying to make learning about it fun.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I have no problem with reenactments in and of themselves.

That said, there are a couple of things that need to be considered:

1) the "living history" angle gets over played. You can't remove events from their contexts and still have them be meaningful. As a reenactor you aren't gaining any insight into what it was like to be a member of the Waffen SS or a Colonial mlitiaman or whatever precisely BECAUSE you are a 21st century American, and not an early 20th century German or a mid 18th century New Yorker. There is an entire cultural and mental framework that those people were working in back then that you simply don't have access to. This might seem nitpicky, but it's not a small point. People make all sorts of assumptions about the world around them and do things for all sorts of different reasons that are firmly rooted in the time, place, and society that they are part of. Whether you want to call this "World-view" or "mindset" or "mentality" or however else you choose to describe it, it pervades just about every aspect of what we do and how we react to the world around us. If you are interested in this and want to read a far better articulation of it than I am managing check out Robert Darton's The Great Cat Massacre. His discussion of this issue in there is the best I've yet found.

2) People running these events and people participating in them all too frequently try to whitewash away the unpleasant aspects of it. Whether it's German WW2 reenactors trying to divorce what they're doing from political National Socialism and the racial policies of the Third Reich or Civil War reenactors insisting that they don't have to address slavery at all because they're concentrating on this one battle and not the political issues at stake in the war, it's far too common. This is very closely related to my point about cultural and mental frameworks. Even if it may be true that not every member of the Wehrmacht was a Nazi, it does remain true that every member of the Wehrmacht was living in a German society where it was illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews.

Note that I am not saying that these issues have to be front-and-centered all the time. If your narrow objective is to create a representation of how the soldiers manning a bunker in France would have looked and how they might have gone about their daily business (show the tourists what all the doo dads were for and how they worked, etc) great, go ahead with that. Just understand that at that point you're down to showcasing very narrow aspects of a single piece of local history completely outside of the larger historical context.

A lot of it boils down to the difference between 'education' and 'research.' As an example, I think what Bill Nye does is awesome, and I'm not going to bag on him for using comedy to teach kids about science. But within the context of the show he's not a scientist and he's not expanding our fundamental understanding of anything in any way. In a similar way, reenactment can be a useful educational tool but it doesn't actually expand our understanding of the era and the people who lived then. To get at that you need to work with things that the actors themselves actually wrote, said, and did and not simply mimic them.

The one thing I want to make abundantly clear is that I have absolutely no problem with anyone doing an activity that they enjoy. My only reservations with reenacting are the claims made by some that doing so is a way to learn or experience what it was like to be doing those things back then or that it is a useful tool for expanding our understanding of a period. The other thing I want to make crystal clear is that my usual exposure to reenactors aren't what I will assume are the vast majority of the people who enjoy it as a fun hobby - which I presume makes up most of this thread. The ones who usually seek out academic historians are precisely the ones who make the most grandiose claims about reenactment being a form of historical research or how they now understand what it was like being a Union soldier in the 1860s or whatever.

tl;dr - it's not "living history" it's creating a modern representation of historical events, and while it has educational value it has essentially no utility for research or developing new insights about the past beyond - possibly - some very narrow, technical matters.


So basically confirming my hypothesis that living history is about getting drunk and spending all evening on JSTOR

Colonial Air Force
May 22, 2002

Bombing Redcoats since 1775.


Scratch Monkey posted:

Can you definitively say that pants pissing was more common in the 18th century?

Well they were probably used to it.

BadgerMan45
Dec 30, 2009


Colonial Air Force posted:

Typically I go when I really NEED to go, so I can't time it, but there are 4 large buttons I have to take down, a waistcoat and shirt to lift, then the underwear....

Modern pants have a zipper and a quick flick of the wrist, dick out, urinating.

Good to know that taking a piss in the field has always been a pain. It was always a race when I was wearing chem gear + all of my equipment. The Roman's had it good in that respect, just lift and go.

George Zimmer
Jun 28, 2008

NO ROSS? YOUR LOSS

I used to be in a fairly prominent German reenacting unit up until I was about 20 (I'm 22 now). For the longest time I bought into the whole "the Wehrmacht were just regular dudes serving their country and not bad like the SS was". I think I even got into an argument with Cyrano about it here on the forums once. I eventually came to my sense and realized this simply wasn't true and that dressing up like a German soldier, despite the honest intentions, was trivializing a horrible period of history for millions of people. I also heard some very uncomforting conversations among people in my unit. Like a few posters have said earlier, alot of the Nazi reenactors aren't just reenacting.

If any of you have questions about it, feel free to ask.

PanzerOfJustice
Oct 11, 2005

56 Tons of Cold Steel and Hot Justice



Here is me as a member of the 3rd Missouri (US), getting ready to punish the traitorous Southern scum from the fields at Wilson's Creek.

I'm been reenacting the American Civil War for about 10 years, and can't wait for the first event of the year.

Colonial Air Force
May 22, 2002

Bombing Redcoats since 1775.


Man that's an awesome photo.

I want to get a painting done like that photo I posted earlier. Or something even more period, I guess.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

Dr. Pre-Med Student C. Bear knows a thing or two about medicine. Why, just the other day in lab, he learned

George Zimmer posted:

I also heard some very uncomforting conversations among people in my unit. Like a few posters have said earlier, alot of the Nazi reenactors aren't just reenacting.


Tell me about this stuff

LingcodKilla
Dec 28, 2002

BUY MORE CRABS


N17R4M posted:

Got the pictures to load in a different browser. Nice Sherman, what's it like fighting side by side with armor?

Wish we had a Matilda down here, or a PZIII, alas even if we could afford the operating cost, we would have nowhere to drive it around. Local roads being poo poo enough without tanks driving on them, coincidentally the same reason one of the member's halftracks is never used.

loving horrifying. Unless you are on top of it rolling around with a good grip. The tanks have very limited visibility and they were constantly warning us to watch out because clearing gore out of the treads was tedious.
At one event I was a quarter up a hill but below a Stuart and the drat thing slide about 30 feet directly towards me but got wedged by a small tree only 10 feet away from me.

It was amazing to hear the racket an armored car (6x6 i think) could make when it didnt have any ball bearings. I still cant believe they used them for recon when one sounded like a heard of elephants with metal knees.

My fondest memory that I can remember (I had a lot but most of them are pretty hazy from applejack) was sweeping through a field and having 4 GIs flop over dead from one german "bullet" because being dead means you got to go back to the medic tent and to shoot the poo poo with the "nurses" and eat food.

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005

I know what you want. I know what you need.

The best thing I got to do with the Nazis was ride around in an SdKfz 251.

George Zimmer
Jun 28, 2008

NO ROSS? YOUR LOSS

Kommienzuspadt posted:

Tell me about this stuff

The really drastic examples were few and far between, but even the subtle, regular stuff was really out there. The group really glossed over alot of atrocities committed by the unit we were portraying. The actual unit during the war liquidated an entire Yugoslavian village in retaliation for local partisan activity. This was never discussed. Ever. Hell, we even had a reenactment of a Yugoslav village occupation, complete with summary executions and everything. As a goony teen I thought it was really interesting and "immersive", but looking back it was in incredibly poor taste.

Racism was big in the unit. Some of it was outright "hyuck hyuck we don't wan't no n-words 'round here" nonsense while most of it was more subtle, poo poo like "there's good ones and bad ones." Ugh. I heard this echoed by virtually every member of the unit to some extent. I'll admit, as an ignorant teenager that wanted to fit in, I joined in on some of it too, which I am most certainly not proud of.

An issue came up with a member of an SS unit that was friendly with our group. The groups charter specifically states that no extremist politics or people who adhere to them are allowed in the group as well as events that the group hosted, which was a fair bit given the groups prominence in the reenacting community in my area. This guy in the SS group had Stukas tattooed on his neck. His myspace had songs by Landzer and Skrewdriver on it. He gave money to the legal defense of a concentration camp guard being extradited to Germany. Needless to say, this guys fascination with the SS went far beyond mere historical interest. I brought this up to some members and said it was kinda bullshit that were letting this guy hang around, which upset alot of the other members in my group. They defended him, saying he was just passionate about the hobby. I suppose aiding escaped Nazis is pretty passionate in a certain light

One of our female members, who also did Soviet, had an SS themed wedding, down to every detail. The minister, if he really was one, had a swastika armband. She was a really nice person, but goddamn.

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005

I know what you want. I know what you need.

George Zimmer posted:

The really drastic examples were few and far between, but even the subtle, regular stuff was really out there. The group really glossed over alot of atrocities committed by the unit we were portraying. The actual unit during the war liquidated an entire Yugoslavian village in retaliation for local partisan activity. This was never discussed. Ever. Hell, we even had a reenactment of a Yugoslav village occupation, complete with summary executions and everything. As a goony teen I thought it was really interesting and "immersive", but looking back it was in incredibly poor taste.

Racism was big in the unit. Some of it was outright "hyuck hyuck we don't wan't no n-words 'round here" nonsense while most of it was more subtle, poo poo like "there's good ones and bad ones." Ugh. I heard this echoed by virtually every member of the unit to some extent. I'll admit, as an ignorant teenager that wanted to fit in, I joined in on some of it too, which I am most certainly not proud of.

An issue came up with a member of an SS unit that was friendly with our group. The groups charter specifically states that no extremist politics or people who adhere to them are allowed in the group as well as events that the group hosted, which was a fair bit given the groups prominence in the reenacting community in my area. This guy in the SS group had Stukas tattooed on his neck. His myspace had songs by Landzer and Skrewdriver on it. He gave money to the legal defense of a concentration camp guard being extradited to Germany. Needless to say, this guys fascination with the SS went far beyond mere historical interest. I brought this up to some members and said it was kinda bullshit that were letting this guy hang around, which upset alot of the other members in my group. They defended him, saying he was just passionate about the hobby. I suppose aiding escaped Nazis is pretty passionate in a certain light

One of our female members, who also did Soviet, had an SS themed wedding, down to every detail. The minister, if he really was one, had a swastika armband. She was a really nice person, but goddamn.

The unit I was in had the not very closeted Nazis but drat son that village massacre re-enacting poo poo is hosed up.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

Dr. Pre-Med Student C. Bear knows a thing or two about medicine. Why, just the other day in lab, he learned

George Zimmer posted:

The really drastic examples were few and far between, but even the subtle, regular stuff was really out there. The group really glossed over alot of atrocities committed by the unit we were portraying. The actual unit during the war liquidated an entire Yugoslavian village in retaliation for local partisan activity. This was never discussed. Ever. Hell, we even had a reenactment of a Yugoslav village occupation, complete with summary executions and everything. As a goony teen I thought it was really interesting and "immersive", but looking back it was in incredibly poor taste.

Racism was big in the unit. Some of it was outright "hyuck hyuck we don't wan't no n-words 'round here" nonsense while most of it was more subtle, poo poo like "there's good ones and bad ones." Ugh. I heard this echoed by virtually every member of the unit to some extent. I'll admit, as an ignorant teenager that wanted to fit in, I joined in on some of it too, which I am most certainly not proud of.

An issue came up with a member of an SS unit that was friendly with our group. The groups charter specifically states that no extremist politics or people who adhere to them are allowed in the group as well as events that the group hosted, which was a fair bit given the groups prominence in the reenacting community in my area. This guy in the SS group had Stukas tattooed on his neck. His myspace had songs by Landzer and Skrewdriver on it. He gave money to the legal defense of a concentration camp guard being extradited to Germany. Needless to say, this guys fascination with the SS went far beyond mere historical interest. I brought this up to some members and said it was kinda bullshit that were letting this guy hang around, which upset alot of the other members in my group. They defended him, saying he was just passionate about the hobby. I suppose aiding escaped Nazis is pretty passionate in a certain light

One of our female members, who also did Soviet, had an SS themed wedding, down to every detail. The minister, if he really was one, had a swastika armband. She was a really nice person, but goddamn.

Whoa.

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Redleg
Jul 7, 2003

What an odd looking.....Figurine

George Zimmer posted:

The groups charter specifically states that no extremist politics

The possibility that these statements are for show and in practice ignored is something that made me very wary of joining any of these groups, as fun as they seem. I ended up with a Confederate group that plays Missouri State Guard often and the variance in possible outfits/uniforms is more interesting than Union cookie cutter to me. On the other hand I didn't want to hang out with jerks/racists. I ended up with a group that is intolerant of current politics political speech, which is nice, and they are definitely not racists. I don't know if I got lucky but they are a good group of guys.

I have been to Wilsons Creek and plan to keep going. It was a great event.

As far as living history, I enjoy placing myself in proximity of the experience of it, but I agree that its just not possible to recreate it absolutely. I do enjoy the flashes of insight I get from it from time to time. Also I get a kick out of cooking over a campfire which I would not otherwise get to do.

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