Murphy's Rules: Your Favorite Game Is Weird

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Murphy's Rules: Your Favorite Game Is Weird

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

yaoi prophet posted:

Normally, you can't put something like Pacifism onto a creature with shroud (can't be targeted), since you have to target the creature when you cast Pacifism. However, if you put Pacifism into play without casting it (Academy Rector, a flicker effect, etc.), it was never 'cast', so you can just slap it on that shroud creature.

Sorry, but this isn't true:

quote:

303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant ability and any other applicable effects.

Auras target as the come into play, even if you don't cast them.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2013 23:05

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 11:04

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

But the enchant ability targets, and the rules specifically say "as the enchant ability." Is there a differing official ruling on this somewhere?

# ¿ Feb 13, 2013 23:17

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

gnome7 posted:

Magic has different rules for when an effect "targets" something and when it "chooses" something. When you "choose" something, there are no limits. Targeting, on the other hand, is blocked by Shroud, Hexproof, Protection, and the target leaving play after you target it but before it resolves. Choosing gets around all of that, and is generally very rare.

Which, you know, also fits right into this thread topic.

Yeah, that is goofy as hell. I learned something today!

# ¿ Feb 13, 2013 23:47

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

Also, make certain you cast fly or at least feather fall on yourself before you cast it, because in some interpretations Locate City works in all three dimensions (it will locate cities in the Underdark, for example). The Locate City bomb instantaneously creates a seventy-mile wide/deep, nearly perfectly spherical crater. (The bottom would be flattened by a few inches, to account for stone's 8 Hardness.)

None of that really matters, though. For reference, the Earth's crust is 20-40 miles thick - after that, you get into the upper mantle. You know, the lava part. The Locate City bomb isn't a nuke, it's a loving Earth-shattering doomsday device.

Gau fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Feb 24, 2013

# ¿ Feb 24, 2013 20:55

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

Oh God, the stories I could tell about the loving mess that was the Star Trek CCG.

The original game was based on some simple, neat ideas. In the pre-game phase, you play a bunch of missions to make a spaceline and then seed dilemmas to keep your opponent from completing his missions (the goal of the game is to complete missions and get 100 points). Then, in the actual game, you played guys and ships to go around and accomplish your missions.

The issue with this is that instead of it being a fun, exciting game to play with a friend, it turns out to be just playing solitaire one card at a time. The total interaction with your opponent in most games was facing their dilemmas, and the occasional hiccup Event (enchantment) or Interrupt. Building a deck for combat meant that you sacrificed cards necessary to outrace your opponent to a points win, and so aggro was just not a thing. Imagine the worst parts of Legacy combo Magic combined with all the excitement of amateur chess.

The design was abysmal, too, in keeping with all nineties TCGs. The first set had an infinite fetch loop AND a way to win the game and lose the game at the same time. There was no costing mechanic - you played one card a turn irrelevant of power level, so there was literally no incentive to not play all of the best cards (and there was no limit to number of duplicate cards per deck, although most of the good personnel and ships were Unique).

And Then It Got Worse.

See, in the first set, there was this card:

Basically, you go to attempt a mission, and this bad motherfucker pops up and wrecks your poo poo. It then proceeds to trample across the spaceline and wreck everybody's poo poo. It was a cool card, very flavorful. There was also this interrupt:

Which was utterly useless.

Then, a few sets later, Decipher released an actual Borg faction, with Borg personnel and ships and different win conditions because Borg don't score points for missions like everybody else. The problem is that RAW a Borg Ship dilemma would attack an actual Borg ship. Rogue Borg would kill real Borg (which I guess made some kind of sense). In a similar vein, Cardassian and Ferengi were originally Neutral affiliation personnel and so this dude:

couldn't properly command this ship

even though he's a Cardassian Gul (Captain).

As the sets rolled on, the game became even more of a mess. There were at least three kinds of side decks (Q-Tent, Alternate Universe, and Tribbles) and they all worked differently. Playing the game meant memorizing (or at least keeping on hand) fifty-plus pages of errata and rulings.

God, I miss that game.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2013 05:56

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

gninjagnome posted:

I'm pretty sure it had to be designed with collectors in mind, instead of trying to make an actual game out of it. I had ridiculous run of good luck and got Data and the Enterprise in my first starter, and Dr. Crusher in my first booster. If I remember correctly,I could complete most of the missions I had with just one or the other.

Oh no, they promoted the hell out of it as a competitive game. Speaking of, here's the card that was worth $50 and could accomplish entire missions all by his lonesome:

He was the only character for a long time who had six "skills" (those red dot things). As the game crawled on and expansions mounted, they decided to release a new version of the second best captain of the Enterprise:

that sucks rear end. They cut out three of his skills and added the ability to "download" (fetch) two cards that let you fetch other cards, one of which can fetch other cards - the chain goes on and on. (Decipher was trying address the fact that deckbuilding had become less like rock-paper-scissors and more like russian roulette by allowing you to pack contingency cards like this. This meant that instead of a 60-card deck, you're talking 60 card main deck + ~30 card Q deck + ~15 card Alternate Universe deck. It didn't work.) Oh, and he has less Integrity but is somehow smarter now.

Because they have the same name, the game treats them as the same card - meaning that even though you can have the USS Enterprise and the USS Enterprise-E on the board at the same time, you can't have their respective commanders. For an added bonus, the old Picard can't command the new Enterprise and vice versa. There was a huge rules argument over the game state - technically, each card is identified by its name, so this (and all of the other First Contact reissues) were both cards, at once, all the time. This was never addressed in any fashion.

As Dr. Seuss said, that is not all! Oh no, that is not all!

The rules for Borg said that any character with Borg in its flavor text was a Borg, so Jean-Luc Picard has retroactively always been a Borg. They did errata that away, but it didn't stop hundreds of table arguments.

For some reason I still love this game.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2013 22:49

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

TyrsHTML posted:

People have talked about the Star Trek ccg, But i wanted to bring up that being Non-aligned actually meant you belonged to the Non-aligned faction, so you were in fact aligned to something. How do we know this? Look at this non-aligned outpost: They specifically require a non-aligned engineer to build it. So how does that make them a faction? This card: anyone can build it because its neutral. Oh and that Neutral station is terrible, cannot repair you, and no one would ever play it because you seeded (placed at start of game) all the stations you needed anyway or built ones that matched your faction and would actually repair you.

I have my old Voyager deck still and basically there was no reason to play anything but the command crew of any of the shows with the shows ship. beats everything.

Yeah, there was a difference between Neutral & Non-Aligned. The reason for this is that several mechanics keyed off matching affiliation (including mission attempts). Non-aligned were just allowed to mix freely with other personnel.

IIRC, there was only one other Neutral card:

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Gau fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Mar 2, 2013

# ¿ Mar 2, 2013 19:15

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

ActionZero posted:

More like everyone on the planet, it just says "Destroy all humans."

"Thirty-six dead, four injured as Hasbro-inspired killing spree ends in police shoot-out."

# ¿ Mar 15, 2013 01:50

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

quote:

Druids, Archdruids, and the Great Druid

At 12th level, the druid character acquires the official title of �druid� (all druid characters below 12th level are officially known as �initiates�). There can be only nine 12th-level druids in any geographic region (as defined by oceans, seas, and mountain ranges; a continent may consist of three or four such regions). A character cannot reach 12th level unless he takes his place as one of the nine druids. This is possible only if there are currently fewer than nine druids in the region, or if the character defeats one of the nine druids in magical or hand-to-hand combat, thereby assuming the defeated druid's position. If such combat is not mortal, the loser drops experience points so that he has exactly 200,000 remaining--just enough to be 11th level.

The precise details of each combat are worked out between the two combatants in advance. The combat can be magical, non-magical, or a mixture of both. It can be fought to the death, until only one character is unconscious, until a predetermined number of hit points is lost, or even until the first blow is landed, although in this case both players would have to be supremely confident of their abilities. Whatever can be agreed upon between the characters is legitimate, so long as there is some element of skill and risk.

When a character becomes a 12th-level druid, he gains three underlings. Their level depends on the character's position among the nine druids. The druid with the most experience points is served by three initiates of 9th level; the second-most experienced druid is served by three initiates of 8th level; and so on, until the least experienced druid is served by three 1st-level initiates.

Only three archdruids (13th level) can operate in a geographical region. To become an archdruid, a 12th-level druid must defeat one of the reigning archdruids or advance into a vacant position. Each of the three archdruids is served by three initiates of 10th level. From among the archdruids of the entire world, three are chosen to serve the Grand Druid (see �The Grand Druid and Hierophant Druids� section). These three retain their attendees but are themselves servants of the Grand Druid.

The Great Druid (14th level) is unique in his region. He, too, won his position from the previous great druid. He is served by three initiates of 11th level.

The ascendance of a new Great Druid usually sets off shock waves of turmoil and chaos through the druidical hierarchy. The advancement of an archdruid creates an opening that is fiercely contested by the druids, and the advancement of a druid creates an opening in their ranks.

The Grand Druid and Hierophant Druids

The highest ranking druid in the world is the Grand Druid (15th level). Unlike great druids (several of whom can operate simultaneously in different lands), only one person in a world can ever hold this title at one time. Consequently, only one druid can be 15th level at any time.

The Grand Druid knows six spells of each level (instead of the normal spell progression) and also can cast up to six additional spell levels, either as a single spell or as several spells whose levels total to six (for example, one 6th-level spell, six 1st-level spells, three 2nd-level spells, etc.).

The Grand Druid is attended by nine other druids who are subject only to him and have nothing to do with the hierarchy of any specific land or area. Any druid character of any level can seek the Grand Druid and ask to serve him. Three of these nine are archdruids who roam the world, acting as his messengers and agents. Each of them receives four additional spell levels. The remainder are normally druids of 7th to 11th level, although the Grand Druid can request a druid of any level to serve him and often considers applications from humble aspirants.

The position of Grand Druid is not won through combat. Instead, the Grand Druid selects his successor from the acting great druids. The position is demanding, thankless, and generally unexciting for anyone except a politician. After a few hundred thousand experience points of such stuff, any adventurer worthy of the name probably is ready to move on to something else.

For this reason, the Grand Druid reaches 16th level after earning only 500,000 more experience points. After reaching 16th level, the Grand Druid can step down from his position at any time, provided he can find a suitable successor (another druid with 3,000,000 experience points).

Upon stepping down, the former Grand Druid must relinquish the six bonus spell levels and all of his experience points but 1 (he keeps the rest of his abilities). He is now a 16th-level hierophant druid, and begins advancing anew (using the progression given in Table 23). The character may rise as high as 20th level as a hierophant druid (almost always through self training).

Beyond 15th level, a druid never gains any new spells (ignore the Priest Spell Progression table from this point on). Casting level continues to rise with experience. Rather than spells, spell-like powers are acquired.

16th level: At 16th level, the hierophant druid gains four powers: Editor's note: there are only three powers.

Immunity to all natural poisons. Natural poisons are ingested or insinuated animal or vegetable poisons, including monster poisons, but not mineral poisons or poison gas.

Vigorous health for a person of his age. The hierophant is no longer subject to the ability score adjustments for aging.

The ability to alter his appearance at will. Appearance alteration is accomplished in one round. A height and weight increase or decrease of 50% is possible, with an apparent age from childhood to extreme old age. Body and facial features can resemble any human or humanoid creature. This alteration is not magical, so it cannot be detected by any means short of true seeing.

17th Level: The character gains the biological ability to hibernate. His body functions slow to the point where the character may appear dead to a casual observer; aging ceases. The character is completely unconscious during hibernation. He awakens either at a preordained time ("I will hibernate for 20 days") or when there is a significant change in his environment (the weather turns cold, someone hits him with a stick, etc.).

A 17th-level hierophant druid can also enter the Elemental Plane of Earth at will. The transference takes one round to complete. This ability also provides the means to survive on that plane, move around, and return to the Prime Material Plane at will. It does not confer similar abilities or immunities on the Prime Material Plane.

18th level: The character gains the ability to enter and survive in the Elemental Plane of Fire.

19th level: The character gains the ability to enter and survive in the Elemental Plane of Water.

20th level: The character gains the ability to enter and survive in the Elemental Plane of Air.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2013 20:04

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

More of these hilarious Magic interactions, please, and fewer silver-bordered shenanigans. There are lots of ways to break Magic without resorting to the cards designed to break the game.

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

Also, it took Exile a decade to finally exile creatures.

For the non-Magic player, Magic has always had "removed from the game." In a casual sort of game, the distinction doesn't matter as much, but for tournaments (where you can cast cards that get other cards from outside the game, among other things), it matters where these cards go - you don't want your opponent going through her entire binder when she casts a Wish. So Wizards R&D invented a "removed from game" zone and a "sideboard" (the fifteen cards that start in your "outside the game" zone). Yep, now the cards which are "removed from" or "outside" the game (or, even more confusingly, "set aside") are in a zone that is part of the game. It didn't make a whole lot of sense.

With the 2010 rules changes, they ditched "removed from the game" and decided to call it "exile," after the aforementioned card. Now there is an Exile zone in addition to the regular zones, like hand and graveyard. (Also with these rules, they blessedly replaced "in play" with "on the battlefield" to end the confusion that a card you just played is not in play until it enters the in play zone.)

# ¿ Mar 19, 2013 18:19

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

Wouldn't that be easy to fix by just errata-ing the TNs?

# ¿ Apr 1, 2013 06:15

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

Finally, my Austin Powers game has a system!

# ¿ Jun 28, 2013 06:03

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

Now I'm imagining an adventuring party as a bunch of addicts, raiding dungeons to support their increasingly dangerous habits.

Basically, fantasy Trainspotting. "It's shite being Elvish!"

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 22:27

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

Nissir posted:

We were trapped in a highly defensible castle that was under seige by an army of goblins. For 8 hours straight, he fired arrows into the advancing horde. How many pounds of arrows did he fire?

~864,000 arrows, if my math is right. About 131,000 lbs, or 65.5 tons. Because there are no fatigue rules in 3.5, an archer can fire arrows roughly equal to the mass of an adult blue whale per day.

Incidentally, the Cetacean, Blue Whale is a CR 12 creature with 184 HP.

Gau fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Dec 13, 2013

# ¿ Dec 13, 2013 14:56

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

Fighter.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2014 00:37

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 11:04

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

Rulebook Heavily posted:

It gets more interesting when you realize that Unarmed Strikes are listed as an item, with a cost of zero.

I wish for infinite punches. Wow, D&D really is Dragonball Z.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2014 19:14

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