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Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Mr. Maltose posted:

To be fair, the Other Strangeness book is based on the comic, in which Michelangelo and any other turtle is demonstrably better at fighting then Shredder. Dude is not a serious threat in the original comics.

The point is that in that book Mike is both lower level and a better fighter than shredder.

It is a REALLY weird book.

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Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004




Where are you getting the AD&D 1e rules for druids above level 14? That's where the progression chart ends.

Is it Unearthed Arcana? I lost my copy of that in the 90s and really want to read it again because it was so bizarre.

Oh, and Concordant Opposition is the word for the true neutral plane, the one that was the Outlands in Planescape.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



mllaneza posted:

It doesn't SAY gravity assist, but that's exactly what the rules are describing. Nobody wants to calculate transfer orbits, so they just have you check the table. And the less astronomical rigor is applied to the Firefly setting, the better. It's a handy load bearing abstraction.

That's how I initially read it. But from memory when you read it closely, A-B-C is cheaper than A-C even if you land at B. Which is dumb. Unless what you mean is "shorter hops are always way cheaper because orbits". If that's what you mean, I'll concede the point because my entire knowledge of orbital mechanics comes from playing Kerbal Space Program and either crashing my guys headlong into Mun or accidentally flinging them off into deep space.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



As far as I remember, there was no actual rule in the 2e Complete Book Of Elves that stopped an Elf fighter/mage from eventually taking the Bladesinger kit and the Bladesong fighting style, and thus doubling up on most of the bonuses, just some mention in the fluff that "there are those that live the life of a bladesinger and those that learn it as a skill". There's something similar in the Dwarves book too. In the Ranger's handbook, the Ice Pick is a new weapon. It is the same as a dagger in every way, but costs and weighs half what a dagger does.

Those books are mostly full of stupid bullshit, but to a nerdy 14 year old, they look really cool lined up on a shelf. Which I guess is the point.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



greatn posted:

In Hackmaster 4th edition character generation you roll character background, including how you were raised. Some results give you flaws, but if you had loving parents each is worth five bonus building points. This happens about 33% of rolls. But you can spend a BP in character creation to re roll any table. So you are always going to get those bonus BP unless you want to handicap yourself with penalties and flaws for having abusive or indifferent parents for no reason.

When I get home I'll post how you can create a stock level one character with -12 AC(equivalent to 32 in a d20 system) if I can find my old build.

Edit: Well I couldn't find it, but the gist was this. You could spend BP to improve your stat levels up to 25 as a starting character. It took a shitload of BP but you could easily keep randomly rolling flaws to get it, spending a BP here and there to get rid of character ending flaws. Barbarians get double their dex bonus if wearing light armor of some certain AC level. Half Ogres automatically get a -1 bonus to AC for being tough skinned, and since they had big hands they could weild a medium shield as a light shield or something like that. So you would have a mute, flatulent, inapropriate sense of humor, male pattern baldness, mirror phobic, multi-personalitied extremely low int half ogre who can barely grunt, but he has a high dex bonus, padded leather, and a shield which combine to make him almost impossible to hit, in addition to having a ridiculous strength(more than likely).

Hackmaster 4e is kinda cheating for this thread, since the players' ability to do things like this was 100% intentional design, as is the GM's ability to gently caress with them for doing it. (Also, it's very, very unlikely you'll get a character with 25 in anything, but when I typed up an explanation it was long winded and uninteresting).

Instead, let's examine Hackmaster's Wall Of Iron compared to the Pathfinder/3e versions a couple of pages ago.

You make a wall of iron that's this high and this thick and blah blah blah and...

"...the Wall can be created vertically resting on a flat surface, so that it can be tipped over to fall on and crush every creature beneath it. The wall is 50% likely to tip in either direction. This chance can be modified by a force of not less than 30 Strength and 400 pounds mass - each pound over 400 or Strength point over 30 alters the chance by 1% in favor of the stronger/heavier side."

That makes way more sense...

"Creatures with room to flee the falling wall may do so by making successful saving throws vs. Death. Those who fail are killed. Huge and Gargantuan creatures cannot be crushed by the wall".

You know, for a "parody" game that's whole function was to carry weird D&D baggage to it's logical extreme, they had some really well written rules.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Mar 7, 2013

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Rexides posted:

It's really just a plain old metal rod, but everyone who has been seen using it up to now is actually a very good mime.

This is the best explanation, because it implies that Mimes are some secret superwizards who can manipulate stuff at great distances, but hide form the world by pretending to be unpopular street performers.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



The biggest question on my mind right now is can a man with no eyes become blinded?

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



LatwPIAT posted:

I keep wondering what kind of gun is simoultaneously worth less than 100 USD, not made from iron, and simple in construction. Counterfeit aluminium flintlocks?

A zip gun? Like, the kind made from a lead pipe, a rubber band, and a nail attached to a wood handle?

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jan 14, 2015

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



"It's nearly impossible to conjure a safe and useable firearm with this power" seems pretty much in line with the tone of the Changeling games I've played in (admittedly, not many and way back in 1999 or so, so gently caress knows how it's different now or what houserules or whatever were applied to that game).

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



bewilderment posted:

Although this even goes back to standard DnD, where I'm told it existed in an old original module but even sort of popped up in one of the boxed 'starter sets' for 3e - the relatively low-level party comes upon heavy doors made of adamantine, barring entry without undoing the complex lock, or completing the puzzle, or maybe even just to look imposing or whatever.

For savvy and unscrupulous players this immediately turns the game into "how do we get these doors off the walls and to the market" because it's a good bet that that much adamantine is worth a crazy amount and much easier to get to than whatever's lying behind them in the trap-filled, monster-infested dungeon.

See also: "A pool of deadly acid" which might as well have a sign next to it that says "The contents of this small pool are worth more than you will steal in your entire adventuring career".

EVIR Gibson posted:

One thing that always stuck to me is that you could come across a cave full of gold and silver, but you would be prying the iron scones since those are worth well more.

Traditional home-forged iron scones just like mum used to hammer out on Moradinsday are worth far more than their weight in gold.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jan 19, 2015

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



ZorajitZorajit posted:

Would I like Torchbearer if I think inventory management is a good mechanic, but loathe any time I have to care about if the party has appropriate torches? (Not in part because it always feels like there will only be one player that doesn't have special vision by default?)

Tracking light sources, including who has what kind of light source, is a pretty big part of Torchbearer. I mean, come on, Torchbearer.

From memory, nobody gets special vision.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 08:29 on May 9, 2015

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Moriatti posted:

I once had a guy tell me that a two handed war hammer was stupid and shouldn't be usable because "try swinging a sledge hammer around and see how fast it is."

He didn't really have a response when I reminded him how much a STR 24 raging barbarian could bench.

You both understand that 2-handed hammers were a real-world medieval weapon, right?

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



chrisoya posted:

Which would be just ridiculous.



Is... is... is there a ruleset for that?

e: Of course there is! https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/22074/pig-tickler

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jun 8, 2015

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Dr. Arbitrary posted:

The only time it's reasonable to track stuff like food supplies, equipment weight etc., is if one player really wants to manage all that

I'd say it's only reasonable when everyone is on board with the idea that supplies are vital is going to be a huge part of the game. The GM then has to make collecting, maintaining, and transporting supplies to be interesting and fun as well as important.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Nessus posted:

I believe subdual damage is actually old, and did in fact represent putting the boots to a dragon, medium-style, so you could capture it and sell it to someone else. What they were going to do with a dragon in a cage is another question.

This goes back at least as far as B/x and I think originally only dragons could take subdual damage.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



kafziel posted:

Who are you paying the zero silver to for the raw materials, though?

Well,

Poison Mushroom posted:

Nowhere in the rules does it actually say you have to have access to raw materials, you just have to pay the price for them.

So I guess literally anyone, or at least anyone who will accept being paid zero money in exchange for doing nothing.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

I want to DM a game with this book entirely to gently caress with the perception of time and make people paranoid about tiny fences and walls of sand cubes arbitrarily existing suddenly.

What happens if you murder someone in between the time when the stuff appears and the time when they would have going to be causing it?

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Poison Mushroom posted:

Why have a peasant railgun when you can have a skeleton computer?

(Did anybody ever post that?)

I don't think so. If I remember right, animated skeletons can follow basic commands indefinitely. The actions of one skeleton can be observed by another skeleton and then acted on in turn (eg, raising/lowering arms for 1/0 depending on what another skeleton is doing). They can therefore be used as logic gates, so you can build a computer if you have enough skeletons.

I think you need a startlingly large number of skeletons to build a useful computer, but skeletons aren't exactly hard to make or find.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



gradenko_2000 posted:

Isn't there a limit to how many skeletons you can control via Animate Dead, though?

In 2nd ed AD&D "the undead remain animated until they are destroyed in combat or are turned; the magic cannot be dispelled". It doesn't mention needing to maintain command or them reverting to attack mode after x rounds or anything else that might make them stop doing what you told them to do.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Oct 5, 2015

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



bewilderment posted:

This is true. A redstone torch is just a binary switch, of which you need many to make a logic gate. You might be able to teach an individual skeleton to be an AND gate pretty easily (raise your arm if the two skeletons positioned in front of you both have their arms up). If you can make a NAND gate (only lower your arm if the skeletons in front of you both have an arm raised) then you need far fewer skeletons and just need to position your skeletons appropriately, because an arbitrary number of NAND gates can make any type of circuit. This cuts the number of necessary skeletons in half, at least.

NAND should be well within the capabilities of a skeleton warrior that can "guard this room and attack everyone who enters and isn't an elf".

If the skeleton can determine which are elves out of an arbitrarily large number of creatures in the room, determining whether or not both of two creatues have a hand raised can't be beyond its capabilities.

Pfox posted:

ISM - International Skeleton Machines Corporation.

Intelligent Bone Machines?

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



More skeletons doing charades.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Magic (like p much everything) can be described with the right kind of math. This has been understood for hundreds of years, but it's always been relatively useless knowledge because the calculations necessary to do anything worthwhile would take years.

Once you've got a the computing power to work with those equations, deconstructing existing spells and reconstructing them to be more powerful and efficient is trivial. Creating brand new spells is somewhat difficult, but really not a problem.

The first thing that the compumancers did was to create cheaper, faster, more efficient skeletons. Computing power is now increasing exponentially. They were creating 256th level spells within 10 years. Within 20 years, 2048th level spells were commonplace. It's been mathematically proven that if you can get enough skeletons together, Nth level spells can be produced at will.

And the skeleton computers keep getting smaller, cheaper, faster, more common. Portable. Wearable.

Implantable.


Skelularity is imminent.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Oct 5, 2015

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



frankenfreak posted:

Will they stumble over a group of spies from the Necromancy Surveillance Alliance?

Why would you even think that? There is no such alliance. You'll get a visit from the Shadow Service if you keep speculating wildly about things that don't concern you and don't even exist anyway.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



gradenko_2000 posted:

A Shadow Cabinet where the ministers are literal Shadows

Now I'm picturing a 2-party parliament where the MPs are evil mirror universe version of their opposite numbers.

It might look like that's phrased vaguely, but it's not - Everyone, including the voters, understands that parliament consists entirely of evil mirror universe people, but everyone is sure that their non-preferred side is from an eviler mirror universe.

Debate speeches consist mainly of pushing the idea that the speaker's evil mirror universe is the less-evil one. Rebuttals are mostly the other side saying that the original speaker manufactured the evidence because that's exactly the sort of thing the eviler mirror universe people do.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Oct 14, 2015

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



frankenfreak posted:

Power Word sudo

This just parses out to "power word power word" though?

Bendigeidfran posted:

That's what the Wall of Fire is for!

Last week, some guys figured out that a simple hack of the espionage tool Disguise Self* can allow them to easily pass through this particular defense, so long as the tool is used to emulate the appearance of a valid entrant.

They've warned that it would be incredibly easy to use this method of access to cripple the system via Destruction of Skeletons.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Golden Bee posted:

A literal version of "Magic/More Magic"

This is my favorite post on this topic, and I somehow managed to miss it earlier.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Can you swim in Airy Water?

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



LightWarden posted:


Toot toot motherfucker

A thing of absolute beauty.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



quote:

Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet.

There are rules for exceeding your carrying capacity. You can push or drag or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity. The rulebooks says that when you're pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, but not exceeding twice your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet. What does the rulebook say happens to your speed when you lift a weight in pounds above your carrying capacity, but not above twice your carrying capacity?

Yes, obviously the intended result is that you can't move, but the rulebook doesn't actually say so.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



2nd ed had a line like to "you can't move more than a couple of steps" for the analogous situation, and iif I were DMing I'd probably go with something like that.

But in the spirit of this thread, I'm now picturing a bunch of not-Egyptians picking up a huge stone block and jogging it to the pyramid, since that's obviously a better solution than slowly dragging the loving thing.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Nah, it's because it specifies "full night's rest" and it's impossible to have a full 8 hours' bed rest at night more than once per day.

Presumably magicalsomethingorother from the sun interferes with daytime healing, which is obviously why vikings go home for the winter.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Rest 8 hours, fight 30 seconds, repeat, right?

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



The part about the noise is dumb, and so is the part about move penalties.

I can't think of anything less interesting or exciting than "how long it takes you to put your armor on", but I think that part's more deadly boring than weird or stupid. A real gambesson or padded jacket could easily take a minute to get into once you worm your way into it (they're tight), get it to sit right, tighten the laces and/or buckles, and get your belt in the right spot and buckled, and I'm assuming an armoured buff coat isn't much different. In any case, it's not a hoody or even a motorbike jacket, you're going to have to do up laces, buckle stuff together, etc. A minute's not impossible.

A shirt or robe taking a minute to put on is dumb.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Apr 27, 2016

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004




Yeth what?

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



"You can easily get seven years wages in a single day" is still a weird rule even if you append ", once only".

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Tell me how a roleplaying game becomes only-pretending-to-be-a-roleplaying-game if you balance it too well.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



HotCanadianChick posted:

...never once touched a miniature in any rpg session over the past 25+ years. Then again, I also don't find myself needing visual aids to enjoy reading a novel either, but maybe some of you do, I dunno.

Were you playing with a group of savants who can hold the positions and relative separations of all the PCs, monsters, and terrain features exactly in their heads at all times, or were you rendering all the movement, range, and area rules irrelevant and breaking everything attached to them? Or were you playing something other than D&D?

And hey, I played a lot of second ed while just handwaving that stuff away and it was pretty fun, but ignoring those particular rules means you were playing a significantly different game than someone who was using them.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Aug 28, 2016

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



HotCanadianChick posted:

Nope, same game. We just followed the advice in the DMG to "change or house rule anything you want if it suits your group better, the GM's word always overrides the rule book" a little more than some players.

My old group/GM I played with also ran Rolemaster a lot, and y'all would probably be horrified at how fast and loose we played with the rules in that too. :haw:

There's nothing wrong with 4e on its own merits (it's a very well set up system that does exactly what it was designed to do), it's just nothing that I want in an RPG - I'd play it as a wargame (it's way better balanced and designed than WH40K, for sure), but not use it for a story heavy rpg campaign because you'd have to gut and rework too much of the rules to run it without minis and maps and I hate games requiring a lot of set up and prep time and don't want to buy a bunch of minis just for one game.

AD&D? We just houseruled and handwaved until we could play it without minis.

3.5? We just houseruled and handwaved until we could play it without minis.

4th ed? Nah you'd have to rework all the rules to play without minis and that means it's not even a real roleplaying game.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



gradenko_2000 posted:

TBH playing 4e loosely enough where you can simply describe your attack as "I hit the orc with Tide of Iron so hard that he flies into the bar and breaks every glass on it" sounds fun as gently caress.

You can, and it's great! Basically just read the fluff from each move and interpret the push/pull/blast/burst stuff as you will.

The only downside is that whenever you try it the RPG police show up and beat the poo poo out of you while yelling "STOP THEM! THEY'RE TRYING TO ROLEPLAY IN A TACTICAL MINIATURES GAME!" That never happened in AD&D when you said "I position the fireball exactly right so it hits all the orcs and doesn't nuke the fighter".

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Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Arivia posted:

Yep. Even 1e used inches on a battleground for everything, it just obfuscated them.

Obfuscated? No, it was quite explicit.



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