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etalian posted:CBC is running a feature called Calgary at the crossroads focusing on how the downturn is affecting the city: I remember my get me out of here moment in Calgary is when I got offered crack under the eight street train bridge downtown in the middle of the day while wearing a suit. That has never happened to me in any other city I've ever lived in.
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Dec 1, 2015 19:30
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lolling how the tory government didn't charge higher royalties or taxes in the name of creating jobs during the energy boom. Now in the famine cycle the province is poorly prepared for what lies ahead.
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Dec 1, 2015 19:30
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sbaldrick posted:I remember my get me out of here moment in Calgary is when I got offered crack under the eight street train bridge downtown in the middle of the day while wearing a suit. To be fair, all those underpasses are zones not governed by the rules of god or man. Jesus they all suck and reek of urine constantly.
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Dec 1, 2015 19:34
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etalian posted:lolling how the tory government didn't charge higher royalties or taxes in the name of creating jobs during the energy boom. Another victim of NDP job killers!
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Dec 1, 2015 19:36
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Why BC didn't blow the passes through the rockies when we had the chance, I'll ne'er understand. We're already feeling the blow as indebted Albertan refugees flood our fragile job economy. 
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Dec 1, 2015 19:43
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etalian posted:lolling how the tory government didn't charge higher royalties or taxes in the name of creating jobs during the energy boom. The problem with catering to business at the expense of revenue generation, is that business is not beholden to its employees and at the first sign of trouble will have no qualms to cut labour costs. All the Alberta government's really did was attract high paying, low stability jobs while neglecting to appropriately tax its GDP to sustain their government in times of trouble. It doesn't help that the people that live out there are either naive or ignorant to their financial situation, and have a case of spending creep with regard to their then growing incomes. The most troubling thing is this isn't the first time Alberta went boom-bust, it does at least once a generation and they still repeat the same mistakes. http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/01/19/Alberta-Oil-Bender/ Skip the article and read the comments 
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Dec 1, 2015 19:46
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Energy Citizens™ literally think that keystone xl and enbridge would have saved them from this crash, lol. It's all Obama's fault, and BC, and Indians, and the left, the NDP, and Liberals. And REDford.
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Dec 1, 2015 19:52
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etalian posted:lolling how the tory government didn't charge higher royalties or taxes in the name of creating jobs during the energy boom. When I was there in 2004-2005, people were really worried that the government would gently caress up the good times by increasing royalties and the oil companies who had spent hundreds of millions of dollars building infrastructure for extraction would leave the province. This was a real fear by a lot of Albertans, I think partly pushed by the provincial government at the time.
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Dec 1, 2015 19:57
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quote:
http://www.bnn.ca/News/2015/12/1/Economy-shrinks-05-in-September-biggest-monthly-drop-since-2009.aspx Dear Canada gently caress you gently caress you gently caress you gently caress you gently caress you
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Dec 1, 2015 20:19
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Dreylad posted:When I was there in 2004-2005, people were really worried that the government would gently caress up the good times by increasing royalties and the oil companies who had spent hundreds of millions of dollars building infrastructure for extraction would leave the province. No matter the time, place, or economic conditions capital spends a fortune beating this drum. Times are good, lower taxes to let the boom create the maximum amount of jobs or the boom might die! Times are bad, cut taxes to encourage growth! Just like every market is the right time to buy a house, every time is the right time to lower taxes and regulations.
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Dec 1, 2015 20:22
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Dreylad posted:When I was there in 2004-2005, people were really worried that the government would gently caress up the good times by increasing royalties and the oil companies who had spent hundreds of millions of dollars building infrastructure for extraction would leave the province. You would think those bible loving conservatives could at least remember the bible story in which Joseph got promoted to vizer and built grain storage in Egypt to save the country in a famine. Best thing about the Alberta boom and bust is the energy companies got away with paying lower royalties then get to move shop when the price of oil crashed. Meanwhile the province of Alberta is left with things like barely funding infrastructure, lots of big construction projects in progress they can't afford such as new schools for subdivisions and a downward spiraling economy.
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Dec 1, 2015 21:40
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Rime posted:Why BC didn't blow the passes through the rockies when we had the chance, I'll ne'er understand. We're already feeling the blow as indebted Albertan refugees flood our fragile job economy. Half of those refugees are Vancouverites who couldn't afford to raise a family here. My 1998 grad class seems like its 80% in AB or ON now (15% HK). I know Calgary was my very reluctant plan B until recently.
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Dec 2, 2015 01:51
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Reverse Centaur posted:Half of those refugees are Vancouverites who couldn't afford to raise a family here. My 1998 grad class seems like its 80% in AB or ON now (15% HK). I know Calgary was my very reluctant plan B until recently. Same. As long as AB keeps tanking I'm going to have a really, really awesome small town reunion in 2018. A delicious buffet of quality schadenfreude is on the menu. 
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Dec 2, 2015 01:55
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Rime posted:Same. As long as AB keeps tanking I'm going to have a really, really awesome small town reunion in 2018. A delicious buffet of quality schadenfreude is on the menu. and I might be able to afford a haus!
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Dec 2, 2015 01:59
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Rime posted:Same. As long as AB keeps tanking I'm going to have a really, really awesome small town reunion in 2018. A delicious buffet of quality schadenfreude is on the menu. You could invite them all down to your van and show them how great vancouver life was before they hosed it up.
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Dec 2, 2015 02:04
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Don't worry everyone the price of oil should hit $100 dollars a barrel in a few months. After all they aren't making any more oil!
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Dec 2, 2015 05:14
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etalian posted:Don't worry everyone the price of oil should hit $100 dollars a barrel in a few months.
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Dec 2, 2015 05:19
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Maybe the oil companies will become so terrified of the potential loss that they will, in a last ditch effort, sell themselves to the government so the CEOs can gently caress off and ruin some other industry and the government can nationalize oil production and do it properly and then we can begin the glorious bloodless revolution of the people. Who am I kidding they'll beg for a bailout and get it.
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Dec 2, 2015 16:30
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http://www.straight.com/life/588386/hootsuite-reorganization-results-20-layoffs-vancouver if hootsuite can't make it in trudeau's canada who can!!?!
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Dec 2, 2015 17:26
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Oil price impact for the US NE shale fields http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/12/02/us-usa-marcellus-decline-insight-idUSKBN0TL0CY20151202 quote:The drilling rigs are gone from the hills surrounding this Pennsylvania town of 30,000. The hotels and bars are quieter too, no longer packed with the workers who flocked in their thousands to America's newest and biggest gas field.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:50
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the talent deficit posted:http://www.straight.com/life/588386/hootsuite-reorganization-results-20-layoffs-vancouver Haha, I went to high school with the Matt Foulger guy in the comments. He got fat and works at Hootsuite. This is some delicious schadenfreude here.
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Dec 2, 2015 19:22
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Calgary's a great city that's finally coming into it's own after being a suburban hellhole for most of my childhood. Shame it's full of oil industry fucks, but hopefully they can tank property prices until I can move back out west for a decent price in a few years.......if jobs in my field exist there.
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Dec 2, 2015 19:46
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attackmole posted:Calgary's a great city that's finally coming into it's own after being a suburban hellhole for most of my childhood. Shame it's full of oil industry fucks, but hopefully they can tank property prices until I can move back out west for a decent price in a few years.......if jobs in my field exist there. What's great about it? And how would you know if it's been awful for your lifespan? (genuine questions - I've never been there)
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Dec 2, 2015 19:47
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It has some slightly better chains at the local strip mall now.
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Dec 2, 2015 19:51
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Lexicon posted:What's great about it? And how would you know if it's been awful for your lifespan? Uh, it hasn't been entirely awful for my lifespan, I just was bitter about growing up in suburbs that were built in the late 80's back when developers realized that white people wanted big houses away from the city center but before they realized that you still might need some commercial development around them to let people do interesting things (which they've been slightly better at since the 2000's). For a boring variety of reasons, I went to school in a much cooler area of the city so I got frustrated with the contrast. First off, mountains. No, they're not in the city, but they're close enough that it's a legitimate perk. If you're into winter sports + hiking + outdoorsy poo poo but still want to live in a big city it's pretty much the best place to live in Canada. Current mayor is ridiculously cool and is doing good things for the city. Is fixing public transit and stuff (although like I said it's a suburban sprawl so it will likely always be terrible, but its getting slightly better). Actively makes fun of the conservative shithead ideas that have tanked the provinces reputation. Over the last decade or so it's really modernized and upped its game of cool hipster restaurants and bars and stuff. Every year I come back for christmas and the summer and there's always cool new stuff to check out. It's got a handful of neighborhoods that are walkable as hell and full of interesting stuff that foster a good local community (17th Ave, Sunnyside/Kensington, Mission, Inglewood, etc). I know some people might see hipster poo poo as a downside, but for a city that's cultural output was steak and oil for most of its history its a good trend. As much as its directly related to lovely infrastructure, no PST rules. If you're a goony goon goon it's got the best nerd emporium full of board games and magic cards and hobby poo poo in basically North America. Traffic is infinitely better than Vancouver/Toronto. The cities latest road designs are pretty solid. Downsides: Suburban sprawl. If you don't live near an LRT stop or have a car, god help you. Drinks are expensive at restaurants and specials are non-existant (we legislated away happy hours past 8 PM because oil workers came back into town and partied too hard, seriously). You have to listen to every young person talk about their job interning at an oil company that their dad probably got them. I mean I'm not saying it's the best city in the world, but people like to pretend that Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal are the only modern big cities in Canada and really Calgary's on a pretty similar tier. If you've got a soft spot for mountains like me it's a good place to live.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:13
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attackmole posted:Drinks are expensive at restaurants and specials are non-existant (we legislated away happy hours past 8 PM because oil workers came back into town and partied too hard, seriously). Well these two issues should resolve themselves in a year or two
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Dec 2, 2015 20:41
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BoC leaves rate unchanged, currently happy with the lending practices of 4x+ on 30 year variables and overall pace of consumer debt accrual 
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Dec 2, 2015 22:51
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BoC can't do anything about any of those things.
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Dec 3, 2015 02:29
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PT6A posted:I think the point of the people currently whining about equalization payments is that Alberta already needs the financial age because "A BLOO BLOO BLOO they aren't paying me 6 figures just to show up anymore!" If they created a goddamn sovereign wealth fund like Norway maybe this country could use that money to diversify its economy. But NOPE. Argh, I like Canada in comparison to living in the US, but i don't blame some of my co-workers for moving down south. There are crazy people with guns down there but at least the economy is also diversified because the country is so large.
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Dec 3, 2015 03:22
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:BoC can't do anything about any of those things. I love how intentionally obtuse and sacrosanct people get about Our Lord BoC when the entirely avoidable side effects of a permanently low interest rate are discussed
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Dec 3, 2015 03:35
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:BoC can't do anything about any of those things. Oh they can't? 
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Dec 3, 2015 04:24
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Ccs posted:If they created a goddamn sovereign wealth fund like Norway maybe this country could use that money to diversify its economy. But NOPE. America does not have a diversified economy, I'm sure FIRE would be their largest economic sector if it wasn't basically run on slave labour. They have a healthcare system that's more bankrupt then ours and a massively worse poverty problem. The only thing keeping them going is the fact they have 300 million plus people who buy crap.
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Dec 3, 2015 04:57
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Ccs posted:If they created a goddamn sovereign wealth fund like Norway maybe this country could use that money to diversify its economy. But NOPE. That fund would all get dumped into some how propping up the housing market though.
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Dec 3, 2015 07:11
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jm20 posted:Oh they can't? I'm sure you're aware, but he's referring to their mandate of reaching an inflation target. It's common to treat the BoC like it's beyond reproach, criticism, or even analysis. If its mandate results in distorting the country's economy in a potentially apocalyptic way - - such that the interest rate must remain near-zero for the foreseeable future, fuelling speculative bubbles that never correct - - perhaps its time to take a closer look at how it chooses to define and control inflation.
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Dec 3, 2015 07:24
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Wasting posted:I'm sure you're aware, but he's referring to their mandate of reaching an inflation target. It's common to treat the BoC like it's beyond reproach, criticism, or even analysis. If its mandate results in distorting the country's economy in a potentially apocalyptic way - - such that the interest rate must remain near-zero for the foreseeable future, fuelling speculative bubbles that never correct - - perhaps its time to take a closer look at how it chooses to define and control inflation. It's been what 8? years of near ZIR which has resulted in unprecedented housing inflation and consumer debt. It is quite a narrow pov that the BoC rates don't "directly" correlate with these things. The BoC failing to raise rates simply says full stream ahead to the status quo. Again this is without looking at the employment numbers or traditional inflation targets as you've mentioned. Continuing a near ZIR policy for over a decade is terribly toxic as people become accustomed to what can be deemed 'free' money. I'm not sure the benefits of a low CAD, and short term job losses necessarily outweigh the potential severe RE downturn that could hit the countries major urban centres (also wealth centres) quite severely. Don't forget with an effective ZIR policy, and a low amount of govenfment debt to buy back, what are we left with to stabilize our currency? Cooking the books with employment numbers? The BoC has fewer tools to maintain what levels of growth (or contraction lmao) it has been mandated to do.
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Dec 3, 2015 14:21
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jm20 posted:It's been what 8? years of near ZIR which has resulted in unprecedented housing inflation and consumer debt. It is quite a narrow pov that the BoC rates don't "directly" correlate with these things. The BoC failing to raise rates simply says full stream ahead to the status quo. Again this is without looking at the employment numbers or traditional inflation targets as you've mentioned. While I agree that the effect has been bad in terms of fuelling bubbles, the reason that the rates have been so low for so long from my understanding has a lot to do with the money supply. After the financial crisis the velocity of money tanked, so interest rates were lowered and quantitative easing was introduced to shore up the monetary base and therefore keep the money supply relatively steady, preventing deflation. The reason that interest rates have stayed low is because as banks have been continually required to keep higher capital ratios, they effectively remove high powered money from circulation, requiring a continued expansion of the monetary base until a new equilibrium has been found and inflation starts to show up again. Keep in mind that before the financial crisis happened this process occurred in reverse, capital ratios fell (over decades) helping to fuel growth at the cost of stability and resulted in interest rates that may have been slightly higher than they otherwise would have been to fight inflation.
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Dec 3, 2015 18:19
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Gorau posted:While I agree that the effect has been bad in terms of fuelling bubbles, the reason that the rates have been so low for so long from my understanding has a lot to do with the money supply. After the financial crisis the velocity of money tanked, so interest rates were lowered and quantitative easing was introduced to shore up the monetary base and therefore keep the money supply relatively steady, preventing deflation. The reason that interest rates have stayed low is because as banks have been continually required to keep higher capital ratios, they effectively remove high powered money from circulation, requiring a continued expansion of the monetary base until a new equilibrium has been found and inflation starts to show up again. I'm not aware of where the Canadian banks are in terms of Basel III, but it was largely the US institutions that faced problems raising that kind of capital.
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Dec 3, 2015 18:43
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jm20 posted:I'm not aware of where the Canadian banks are in terms of Basel III, but it was largely the US institutions that faced problems raising that kind of capital. True, but it's also the European banks. The other problem is in our interconnected worldwide financial system the financial flows mean that central bank monetary stimulus does not remain just in the one country, they tend to flow over borders. While this is more evident with the ECB and Fed, it also affects the BoC. And the final point is that while banks are the major part of this, large corporations play a role as well. They're parking a great deal of money in non bank deposits, effectively (though not in the same way as banks) removing the money from circulation, exacerbating the velocity problem, requiring yet more expansion of the monetary base. Effectively, everyone is building large capital buffers, which is requiring the financial system to rebalance itself.
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Dec 3, 2015 19:04
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sbaldrick posted:America does not have a diversified economy, I'm sure FIRE would be their largest economic sector if it wasn't basically run on slave labour. They have a healthcare system that's more bankrupt then ours and a massively worse poverty problem. Oh, okay cool. Now i don't feel guilty about saying "gently caress you" to America, though I'm probably still retain dual citizenship. Yay for filing two tax returns every year...
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Dec 4, 2015 01:17
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Not like you have a real choice when it comes to filing anyways  I'm hoping that bullshit will be toned down over the next decade or two so my kid doesn't have to deal with that extraterritorial garbage.
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Dec 4, 2015 02:56
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