Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

The Laughing Man posted:

The Wendigo is an accurate topical metaphor for Canadian politics.

The Wendigo is always hidden up around the bend of the river in secret. To surprise warriors on spirit quests and send their canoes drifting back down the water, empty and blood stained.

Man, you can't gently caress with my sense of temporal anchoring like that.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 06:43

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 26, 2024 16:30

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/whats-the-use-of-saving-money-part-2/

quote:

What�s the use of saving money, part 2
With the Bank of Canada�s latest warning that interest rates will stay low for longer, is it any wonder people question the point of saving money ?

Anniversaries, especially arbitrary ones, are pretty much the most wretched topic a grasping journalist can put to words. So without further delay�
Five years ago this month Maclean�s published a story of mine entitled �What�s the use of saving money?�� This line from the piece sums it up: �Welcome to the world of ultra-low interest rates, where profligacy is richly rewarded and saving is, well, for suckers.�

The article argued that the long stretch of extremely low interest rates�by then the Bank of Canada�s target overnight rate had been at or below one per cent for nearly four years�had done little to boost the economy and instead was rewarding dangerous risk-taking in Canada�s housing market while punishing prudence and frugality. It went on to argue that this was likely to not only result in a massive housing bubble, but that it might even be hampering growth�the opposite result of what near-zero interest rates are supposed to achieve.

Shortly after it was published, a representative from the Bank reached out, noting that the story hit rather close to home for the institution. The representative�s message to me boiled down to this: Interest rates are low because inflation is low and Canada�s economy is operating below potential, but there is evidence that low rates are finally starting to work.

Or not. The Bank of Canada�s target interest rate is now 50 basis points lower than it was in September 2011. Real (adjusted for inflation) business investment has declined by roughly two per cent, hurt by the oil downturn but also by weakness in other sectors. Real non-energy exports, which were expected to get a big boost from the falling loonie, have managed to climb by just 10 per cent since the third quarter of 2011, while real manufacturing sales are up just four per cent in all that time. Meanwhile the Canadian stock market may have risen by 20 per cent since 2011, but all of that gain came in the last few months: As recently as April, the five-year return of the see-sawing S&P/TSX Composite Index was in the red. (It�s still six per cent below where it was two years ago.) For many businesses, investors and savers, low rates have been a bust.

That�s not been the case for homeowners, banks, realtors, renovators, private lenders, mortgage brokers or anyone else who�s jumped aboard Canada�s real estate party train. Over the last five years Canada�s already-indebted households took on more debt. Gobs and gobs of debt�$385 billion more, to be exact. Last quarter Canadian household debt surpassed the size of the country�s economy for the first time ever, hitting 100.54 per cent of GDP, up from 92 per cent in 2011. This in turn has catapulted house prices higher still. Since September 2011 national house prices have climbed 31 per cent, according to the Teranet-National Bank House Price Index, while Toronto and Vancouver in particular soared 49 per cent and 46 per cent respectively.
In other words, saving was indeed for suckers.

All of this came to mind over the last week as Bank of Canada governor Stephen Poloz, in a speech in Quebec, admitted more or less the same thing, though in carefully couched central banker speak. �One group that has certainly been affected by lower for longer is savers, particularly seniors who planned to finance their retirement with interest income generated by a life of working hard to build savings,� Poloz said.

But there was good news, Poloz pointed out: �The value of most assets rises when interest rates decline, supporting gains in household wealth. This effect may not be as obvious as the impact of low rates on savings. But lower interest rates generally mean higher stock and bond prices, as well as increases in the value of real estate, which has been another important source of wealth for many savers, particularly seniors.�

This is an uncomfortable time to be a central banker in Canada. In recent months Poloz has had to take two rather contradictory stances on the housing market. Recently he bemoaned that many buyers and lenders in the red hot markets of Toronto and Vancouver (and he might have also added Victoria and Hamilton, which are also now climbing at double digit annual rates) believe astronomical price gains have become the expected norm. Yet here he was last week having to praise those same soaring prices for serving as an antidote to the negative effects of lower-for-longer interest rates on savers.
The question going forward is whether saving money will continue to be a sucker�s bet.

We�ve now had two speeches in the span of a week from the most senior officials at the Bank�the first being by senior deputy governor Carolyn Wilkins�that indicate the Bank�s earlier sunny outlook for the latter half of the year is at risk of being revised down, while demographic forces will continue to lower Canada�s potential economic growth in the medium to longer term. Along with the news Friday that inflation in August climbed by just 1.1 per cent from the year before�well short of the lackluster 1.4 per cent economists were looking for, and far from the Bank�s target 2.0 per cent target�this has raised the likelihood that more rate cuts are coming.

In light of this, Poloz had advice for savers. �Some of the forces leading to low interest rates will persist for a long time, so we need to prepare for lower for longer,� Poloz said. �Individuals need to plan for retirement with different assumptions about longevity, interest rates and growth.� That, he said, means saving more, changing one�s investment mix and working longer.

All good advice, to be sure, and people would be wise to heed it. But after more than eight years of near-zero interest rates and soaring real estate prices, can you blame some desperate Canadians if they think they have a better idea: just borrow heavily and buy a house, or two.

gently caress this loving country and especially, gently caress all you canadians. This bullshit loving country needs to burn to the ground

# ? Sep 27, 2016 15:16

Business Octopus: Jun 27, 2005; Me IRL

leftist heap posted:

lmao. amazingly the answer is never "pay better wages". businesses in this country can get hosed. they've never met a problem whose solution wasn't to kick and scream until the government solves it for them.

It's especially funny to me that biotechnology companies are bitching about this. Lol I know PhD team leads making 70K a year in Toronto and it can be even worse for research associates with years of experience who basically function as mini-PIs. I guarantee that you could poach real talent from Canadian firms if you offered them more money than they're currently making. This is the sector where I've seen calls for PhD education paying 20 an hour part time (but we usually have over 30 hours a week of work!) and with no benefits lol.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 15:56

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Business Octopus posted:

It's especially funny to me that biotechnology companies are bitching about this. Lol I know PhD team leads making 70K a year in Toronto and it can be even worse for research associates with years of experience who basically function as mini-PIs. I guarantee that you could poach real talent from Canadian firms if you offered them more money than they're currently making. This is the sector where I've seen calls for PhD education paying 20 an hour part time (but we usually have over 30 hours a week of work!) and with no benefits lol.

contract or employee?

# ? Sep 27, 2016 16:15

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

Brannock posted:

Man, you can't gently caress with my sense of temporal anchoring like that.

Will Chief Son-Of-Watch-Me go on the Vision Quest to defeat the Wendigo? Of course not. He is a wendigo, too.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 16:15

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

I have a PhD and I don't make $70k. I won a fellowship which pays my salary and in thanks for removing that entire liability from my boss I got a $5k top-up lol.

Plenty of money for buildings and machines in Canada but investors, donors, executives, etc balk about the idea of paying for labour.

cowofwar fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Sep 27, 2016

# ? Sep 27, 2016 16:34

Business Octopus: Jun 27, 2005; Me IRL

jm20 posted:

contract or employee?

Part time employee for a well known CRO, not just a casual contract. They also try to get people with foreign MDs (who presumably cant get certified for medical practice here) for very little money.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 16:45

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

cowofwar posted:

I have a PhD and I don't make $70k. I won a fellowship which pays my salary and in thanks for removing that entire liability from my boss I got a $5k top-up lol.

Plenty of money for buildings and machines in Canada but investors, donors, executives, etc balk about the idea of paying for labour.

PHD, lol

Basically every unionized trade in Ontario earns more than you. For a point of reference for your next life even truckers regularly pull 80k+

Business Octopus posted:

Part time employee for a well known CRO, not just a casual contract. They also try to get people with foreign MDs (who presumably cant get certified for medical practice here) for very little money.

Part time work for doctors when we don't have enough family physicians :downs:

# ? Sep 27, 2016 16:49

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Man gently caress you of you think an MD from university of Antigua or Pune institute of technology isn't a loving quack

# ? Sep 27, 2016 16:56

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

namaste faggots posted:

Man gently caress you of you think an MD from university of Antigua or Pune institute of technology isn't a loving quack

rebuttal: we call chiro's/naturopaths doctors

Indian tech uni md's seems great in comparison

# ? Sep 27, 2016 17:03

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

OK well when your dying of anal cancer and dr amol prescribes some Ayurveda bullshit please reflect upon this post

# ? Sep 27, 2016 17:14

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

namaste faggots posted:

OK well when your dying of anal cancer and dr amol prescribes some Ayurveda bullshit please reflect upon this post

Would you prefer that to the strawberry smoothies Steve Jobs had? Perhaps some indigenous traditional healing?

# ? Sep 27, 2016 17:16

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

I'd rather die in an emergency room because I can't get a GP than help dr anil Gupta of poly technical college of Mangalore pay down his heloc so he can drive a BMW x5 to and from his mcmansion in Langley

# ? Sep 27, 2016 17:25

Business Octopus: Jun 27, 2005; Me IRL

namaste faggots posted:

Man gently caress you of you think an MD from university of Antigua or Pune institute of technology isn't a loving quack

Caribbean medical schools actually exist/make money by being reasonably rigorous (a competitive number of people that make it to the end pass their MCCEEs/ASMLEs) and just taking in tons of students and flunking them out after first/second year.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 17:33

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

If the current medical bureaucracy can sufficiently distinguish qualified from unqualified doctors regardless of where they come from, then I don't think it should be an issue for foreign doctors to work in Canada and it should be encouraged.

If it can't and therefore we can only trust white doctors but not brown ones, then it says something pretty telling about the whole medical "profession", doesn't it.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 17:53

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://business.financialpost.com/p...tate-risk-index

quote:

Vancouver tops list of �bubble� cities on global real estate risk ranking

Canada�s priciest city to buy residential real estate also has the biggest risk of being in a bubble, according to a new international of real estate markets.

The UBS Global Real Estate Bubble Index 2016 listed 18 cities around the globe and their risk and found Vancouver with the greatest probability of a bubble.

�Real house prices have increased by more than 25 per cent since 2014 in the wake of a weak Canadian dollar which apparently stimulated Asian demand even further,� the bank said, in its 22-page report released Tuesday. �Moreover, loose credit conditions have offset the economic slowdown due to weak commodity prices. Mortgage growth rates have been accelerating lately. In response, to still-high foreign demand, the local government has introduced an additional property tax for non-resident investors. The risk of substantial prices correction appears very elevated.�

Vancouver prices have already started falling based on average prices, though the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver said in August its Multiple Home Prices Index composite benchmark price for all residential properties in Metro Vancouver was $933,100, up 31.4 per cent from a year earlier. The British Columbia Real Estate Association said the average price of a home sold in Greater Vancouver last month was $833,065, down 7.5 per cent from a year ago.

B.C. government�s new 15 per cent additional property transfer tax on foreign-owned or backed purchases was announced July 25 and went into effect Aug. 2. Realtors have reported some consumers, including foreign buyers, are walking away from deals and some expect an even larger fallout when September housing results are released on next week.

The UBS study does not just single out Vancouver. It notes that with a third of all government bonds offering negative yields, investing in tangible assets remains popular.

�It is hardly any wonder that housing markets are again overheating, just a few years after the last major wave of a global correction,� the report states, adding there is significant overvaluation of housing in key financial centres.

UBS says the cities with overheating have a key common characteristic, excessively low interest rates that doesn�t match the strong performance of the real economy. The eurozone, Australia, the United Kingdom and Canada are all listed for keeping rates too low.

�When combined with rigid supply, as well as sustained demand from China, this has produced an ideal setting for excesses in house prices,� write Claudio Saputelli and Matthias Holzhey, of UBS, in their report.

After Vancouver, the next four bubble cities in order were London, Stockholm, Sydney, and Munich.

What's it this 'risk' thing? Are you telling me that I should delay my self fulfillment because of ~reasons~? That's some negativity bro! Look what happened to all those people who got tamiflu injections for SARS. Now they all have autism and for what??????

# ? Sep 27, 2016 19:30

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Wait, Munich? I thought Germany was bubble-proof because of managed house pricing.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 19:31

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Subjunctive posted:

Wait, Munich? I thought Germany was bubble-proof because of managed house pricing.

They do a pretty good job but not perfect. Munich is nimby as gently caress so the housing supply is super limited there compared to other cities, so there's a minor mania to buy now because they aren't building more munich!

# ? Sep 27, 2016 19:38

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

namaste faggots posted:

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/whats-the-use-of-saving-money-part-2/

gently caress this loving country and especially, gently caress all you canadians. This bullshit loving country needs to burn to the ground

10+ years of zirb poo poo from most western countries and we still get dire warnings from politicians about the poor, imperiled ~*global economy*~ and all the "economic headwinds" and all that poo poo. I'm not a genius economist but it seems like there's a mountain of evidence now that it does jackshit for economic growth. I dunno, maybe we just haven't zirb'd hard enough. Gotta dig further into that monetary policy hole I guess.

I guess the benefit has been stable inflation, but there have been a ton of negatives too, particularly in the form of asset bubbles (not just housing, insane amount of money has been poured into the tech industry chasing returns). Monetary police seems like a really useless in terms of economic growth at this point.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 21:10

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

https://twitter.com/PhilipSoos/status/780247574074851328

# ? Sep 27, 2016 21:22

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

it's absurdly hard to get licensed to practice medicine in canada. my girlfriend is a radiologist resident and her sister is a psych attending, both graduated from an excellent us medical school, both have grandparents with canadian citizenship and neither can get a spot in a canadian residency program so they can get certified here. the only way foreign doctors are getting licensed in canada is if they do years in some manitoba shithole as a family physician (at which point they've earned it)

# ? Sep 27, 2016 22:24

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

https://twitter.com/vanmayorsoffice/status/780880568917499904

Get hype

# ? Sep 27, 2016 23:56

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Judging by how heavily AirBnB started advertising a few weeks ago, I suspect we will like what we hear.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 23:58

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

the talent deficit posted:

it's absurdly hard to get licensed to practice medicine in canada. my girlfriend is a radiologist resident and her sister is a psych attending, both graduated from an excellent us medical school, both have grandparents with canadian citizenship and neither can get a spot in a canadian residency program so they can get certified here. the only way foreign doctors are getting licensed in canada is if they do years in some manitoba shithole as a family physician (at which point they've earned it)

Yeah, I know a guy who got his license in the EU (he's Canadian) and came back to Canada. He's been here for three years and still hasn't been able to get his license to practice in Canada yet.

# ? Sep 28, 2016 00:06

quaint bucket: Nov 29, 2007

Femtosecond posted:

https://twitter.com/vanmayorsoffice/status/780880568917499904

Get hype

Thought he was at UBCM?

# ? Sep 28, 2016 00:16

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

the talent deficit posted:

it's absurdly hard to get licensed to practice medicine in canada. my girlfriend is a radiologist resident and her sister is a psych attending, both graduated from an excellent us medical school, both have grandparents with canadian citizenship and neither can get a spot in a canadian residency program so they can get certified here. the only way foreign doctors are getting licensed in canada is if they do years in some manitoba shithole as a family physician (at which point they've earned it)

The CoP has long colluded to ensure that physicians remain scarce in Canada, ensuring that they retain their ludicrously high salaries regardless of actual competence in the practice of medicine.

# ? Sep 28, 2016 00:18

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

Rime posted:

The CoP has long colluded to ensure that physicians remain scarce in Canada, ensuring that they retain their ludicrously high salaries regardless of actual competence in the practice of medicine.

You are the living, breathing embodiment of :tinfoil:

For the amount of required education, debt, and workload they put in I think paying them 100k+ a year is loving deserved. Also doctors are typically the worst people at handling money which makes posting that in this thread really hypocritical but I dont care. :colbert:

# ? Sep 28, 2016 01:17

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

the average doctor makes way more that 100k a year

# ? Sep 28, 2016 01:22

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Furnaceface posted:

You are the living, breathing embodiment of

For the amount of required education, debt, and workload they put in I think paying them 100k+ a year is loving deserved. Also doctors are typically the worst people at handling money which makes posting that in this thread really hypocritical but I dont care.

It is the doctors association putting the barriers on foreign doctors in place, not the government.

One of the things that shames me the most about our immigration policies, is that they target doctors to come knowing full well they will never be a doctor here. But it's fine, Manila can do with less MDs, we have generic project manager positions that won't fill themselves. (You may ask why that seems like an oddly specific example.)

# ? Sep 28, 2016 01:33

triplexpac: Mar 24, 2007; Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

I went into my bank (RBC) to take care of some stuff, and they pushed a flyer at me. I can take a picture if I still have it, but it was pretty incredible.

Income Properties: Money Does Grow on Trees

https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/income-properties-money-does-grow-on-trees-tickets-26834819668?aff=erelexpmlt

The flyer had little illustrations of trees with houses growing on them and everything.

I thought nothing could surprise me, but it was pretty baffling that the bank was pushing this on me.

# ? Sep 28, 2016 01:37

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

triplexpac posted:

I went into my bank (RBC) to take care of some stuff, and they pushed a flyer at me. I can take a picture if I still have it, but it was pretty incredible.

Income Properties: Money Does Grow on Trees

https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/income-properties-money-does-grow-on-trees-tickets-26834819668?aff=erelexpmlt

The flyer had little illustrations of trees with houses growing on them and everything.

I thought nothing could surprise me, but it was pretty baffling that the bank was pushing this on me.

The banks know they are going to be bailed out of whatever mess they create, just like in the US.

# ? Sep 28, 2016 01:40

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Furnaceface posted:

You are the living, breathing embodiment of

For the amount of required education, debt, and workload they put in I think paying them 100k+ a year is loving deserved. Also doctors are typically the worst people at handling money which makes posting that in this thread really hypocritical but I dont care.

Those are the barriers which construe the colluding by the CoP to which I am referring, yes. Do you also believe elevator repairmen are in short supply for reasons other than their union enforcing an artificial scarcity of apprentices?

Doctors being poor at managing their obscene wealth is boo hoo hoo.

# ? Sep 28, 2016 02:12

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

https://twitter.com/A_MacLeod_Tyee/status/780938385611382784?s=09

# ? Sep 28, 2016 02:20

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

No, I believe elevator mechanics are in short supply because nobody knows its an actual job, let alone a good paying one. :v:

# ? Sep 28, 2016 02:23

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.news1130.com/2016/09/27/homemakers-students-own-107-million-in-one-vancouver-neighbourhood/

quote:

Homemakers, students own $107 million in Vancouver neighbourhood

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) � The BC NDP is once again drawing attention to who owns some of Vancouver�s priciest properties on the city�s West Side.

The party�s Housing Critic David Eby is sharing numbers which show a total of 32 homemakers and students in MacKenzie Heights own $107 million worth of property. He�s also learned 21 homemakers and students have earned more than $15 million through selling property in that same neighbourhood.

Documents obtained by Eby also show 29 of those homeowners have also been able to take out a mortgage. �There�s a waitress that bought a $2.3 million property. And there was a casino dealer and a cashier who bought a $1.2 million property as well. Students, homemakers and waitresses, by definition, have very low or no incomes. Is this why MacKenzie Heights and other neighbourhoods throughout the Lower Mainland are reporting incredibly low incomes, despite real estate values being so high? Are the people purchasing these $1 million homes reporting poverty level incomes for tax purposes?�

Eby feels this equation doesn�t add up, and he�s calling for the provincial government and the Canada Revenue Agency to ensure there are more auditors locally to enforce tax laws. Beyond the enforcement of existing laws, including BC�s new 15 per cent foreign buyers tax, Eby wants changes made to existing rules.

�The problem is when you have a homemaker who can buy five properties throughout the province or waitresses buying properties � the question is whether a 15 per cent [tax] makes a significant difference. The other question is why are people listing their occupations as housewife or student for some many high-valued transactions? I can�t say that anybody has done anything improper here. The question that I have is where is the money coming from?�

For example, under the current laws, a wealthy person can gift cash to a relative totally tax free, and that beneficiary can then buy a property, and if it�s their primary residence, they can then sell that property again without having to pay a capital gains tax � something Eby says should change.

how dare eby question the legitimacy of a waitress buying a 2.3 mil house. this is CANADA where anyone can be successful and OWN a house. why does eby HATE canada?

# ? Sep 28, 2016 04:52

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

lmao

# ? Sep 28, 2016 04:53

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

A literal request for blood money came in the mail for me (New Westminster):

# ? Sep 28, 2016 04:59

Purgatory Glory: Feb 20, 2005

Gennifer Flowers posted:

https://twitter.com/PhilipSoos/status/780247574074851328

The only ad I have heard from Blue shore financial (located on the North shore in Vancouver)on the radio of late is something to the effect of " Are you helping your adult child buy a new home? we can help".

# ? Sep 28, 2016 05:15

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

This thing's gonna be a fiasco: https://www.biv.com/article/2016/9/tsawwassen-mills-tackles-major-recruitment-crunch/

# ? Sep 28, 2016 05:45

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 26, 2024 16:30

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

Lexicon posted:

This thing's gonna be a fiasco: https://www.biv.com/article/2016/9/tsawwassen-mills-tackles-major-recruitment-crunch/

I flew over that piece of poo poo mall earlier today and still cannot fathom why they thought that a shopping centre of its size that is in the middle of nowhere is going to be able to have the same intake that Metrotown has currently. Nobody is going to travel from Surrey or North Vancouver to go to a mall that is off of a major thoroughfare when options like Metrotown, Guildford, and Park Royal are easier to get to and have most of the poo poo that they're going to want anyway.

The logic that dimwits throw around is that it's there for people who are heading to the ferries, but during peak season (so July 2016 for example), vehicle traffic to Tsawwassen towards Duke Point or Swartz Bay is <400,000 cars or ~1,000,000 passengers. Most of these people are aiming to get to the loving ship as early as possible so why is there this logic? For example, a typical day-trip to Victoria for me would be get to the earliest ferry possible which is likely before the mall even opens, spend all day in Victoria, and then take the last ferry back. For those doing the opposite, why would this mall be an attraction?

I cannot wait to see this turned into an expensive call centre.

# ? Sep 28, 2016 06:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

«‹›1517 »