Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Xoidanor posted:

How would that in any way affect a tourist? If anything it would benefit you as it would send the euro exchange rates careening off a cliff temporarily.

Yea, I'm going to France/Italy in August and was waiting for the EU to drop before buying any money. Last I checked (which admittedly was a while ago), CDN and EU are both forecasted to decline in value, so it's kind of a race to the bottom.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

I'm just going to say it: Hamilton rocks and I wish I never left.
Cheap rear end rent and a few decent places to eat, plus hiking trails everywhere if you live in the West end (and you should).

Paying $1400 for a one-bedroom condo rental with nothing around it and commuting forever on the TTC blows. Paying $800 for a two bedroom enormous apartment rocked, even if the city left a little to be desired.

In short: Toronto sucks.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

labour-based capital is so last century

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Real talk though, where is the personal finance Canada thread? I have some cash and I'm not sure if I should buy something, continue renting, or invest instead. I really want to get out of the Toronto renting game since I live in a $1400 dollar/month shithole

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Career counselling in high school is a joke and leaves 17 year olds woefully unprepared to decide their education and work goals. I have a masters and most of a PhD in psychology from a good school and am working as a contractor right now due to being essentially unemployable. Very few employers will ever call you if you mention you've gone to grad school (not sure why). I could have gone to college for the stuff I'm doing now and been working in 3 years rather than busting my rear end in low paying teaching assistantships and random jobs. Don't be like me, kids.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

jm20 posted:

Cottage owners are morons who cannot understand owning a second house, maintenance, and travel time don't make the property worth personally owning. Commuting to these properties every weekend and long weekend is such a waste of time.

I also enjoy not being able to go north on major highways on Friday evenings because of someone's vanity property

a primate
Jun 2, 2010


Dat bump at 08 :stare:

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

So, what should be done about the housing crisis? I hear a lot of poo-pooing of supply side ideas, but does the thread have a consensus about the solution?

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

namaste faggots posted:

For the millionth time, macrpru and policies that constrain demand

I haven't read all 762 pages of this thread - what's macpru? Macroeconomic prudence? Also what policies would constrain demand for places to live in a city with more jobs than outlying areas?

Ikantski posted:

2008-2012 will be remembered as the golden age of cars, reliable and efficient, not yet infested with mandatory touchscreens.

:agreed: I'm hoping it's just a fad

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

leftist heap posted:

lol, this isn't true at all. We went over this poo poo a few pages back. More education still means more money and it's basically never not been true and probably won't ever not be.

Just because people with more education make more than others with less education doesn't mean this guy definitely makes 100k with his ~management~ degree

a primate
Jun 2, 2010


150 :staredog:

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Jumpingmanjim posted:

How can they afford these things they aren't even Chinese.

They were lucky enough to be born in the Greatest Place On Earth

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Stopped reading at "but really it's about soul"

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

EvilJoven posted:

CIs kid is going to pull the ultimate gently caress you dad and become a police officer that saves vacation time for the yearly training weeks in the Reserves.

And he'll smoke weed, because it will be legal

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

There's a house that went up for sale down the street from my lovely old apartment. It had a Sotheby's sign in front of it, so I'm guessing 5 mil minimum. I didn't even know Sotheby's did property.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

I have friends in Ontario who worked and are working for private schools. Because of the glut of unemployed young teachers right now, they're happy to hire you and pay you 30-35k to work like an animal. No benefits and short-term contracts only.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Just when we turned landlord into a bad word, they want to change it on us, smh

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Subjunctive posted:

Toronto has started collecting the attestations for property owners as to their properties' vacancy. Interested to see if they actual make anything happen with the tax that's supposed to come along with vacancy in properties...

Is anything stopping people from saying “yea my cousin lives here sometimes”?

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

Immigration shouldn’t be on the table, we need young immigrants badly both now and for the foreseeable future because Canadians just aren’t making enough babies to support their old age in taxes, period. The more we can get and retain, the more robust and stable our economy will be relative to other countries who are already at risk of population implosion and possibly wholesale collapse of government in the next few decades (looking at Russia, China, some countries in Europe, etc).

What we need, as you say, is more housing. We also need to not give out credit to people who are not credit worthy. How we achieve these goals is a fundamental disconnect between the parties.

And then you also have the racist idiots who also want to sign Canada’s suicide note by shutting the floodgates or whatever on immigration. If you want a case study on how well this works out, take a look at how Brexit is going for the UK.

Brexit is a vastly different situation. Reducing immigration in Canada is not at all comparable to exiting a political and economic union.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Femtosecond posted:

Coincidental relevant article. Japan is now giving money to people to move out of Tokyo and occupy that vast swathe of empty homes.

This is the future that Canada is clearly trying to avoid by cranking immigration.

Thank god for immigration. Now Moose Factory can breathe a sigh of relief knowing newcomers will arrive any day now.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

COPE 27 posted:

I wonder why the people who can't afford a home aren't having kids

Maybe we should increase immigration, that will probably help the situation

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Could a city like Toronto mandate that new buildings be co-ops, or would that fall under the purview of the province?

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

McGavin posted:

I would like to see where all that immigration is coming from.

Here’s the breakdown for 2022 (just PRs):

https://www.cicnews.com/2023/02/ircc-unveils-the-top-10-source-countries-of-new-immigrants-to-canada-in-2022-0233180.html/amp]

quote:

India (118, 095 immigrants) – 27%
China (31,815 immigrants) – 7.2%
Afghanistan (23,735 immigrants) – 5.4%
Nigeria (22,085 immigrants) – 5.05%
Philippines (22,070 immigrants) – 5.04%
France (14,145 immigrants) – 3.2%
Pakistan (11,585 immigrants) – 2.6%
Iran (11,105 immigrants) – 2.5%
United States of America (10,400 immigrants) – 2.3%
Syria (8,500 immigrants) – 1.9%

This doesn’t include TFWs or students.


Regarding the moves out West and East, I’m willing to bet some proportion of that is retirees as well. Older people are looking to retire more affordably, and selling their homes to immigrants with enough cash to buy inside the major metro areas. I see this quite a bit in my own neighbourhood. For the larger houses, only immigrants who came in the last few years are able to afford the prices - sellers are moving farther away from the city to retire, or to afford larger properties further out to accommodate families. Commuting distances are getting wild because businesses refuse to move out of the downtown core.

a primate fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 30, 2023

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

melon cat posted:

This is exactly what happens when comically out-of-touch executives get into their “Nobody here wants to work anymore!” echo chamber. Because that flawed belief becomes “We can find lots of good workers in [other city name]! People there would be pounding on our doors to work!”

I think it’s the cocaine.

This might be a regional thing, but I have a completely different take on this. I’m also not suggesting changing cities, just using the sprawling nature of Toronto to its advantage.

The DT Toronto commercial properties that fetch the highest rent are closest to the lake, close to the Gardiner, Yonge St and Bay St. They have a certain appeal to large conglomerates and high end companies, simply because all their competitors are there, and there is a certain panache to being in the downtown core.

There is a certain conceit that, in order to be a successful company that “attracts talent”, you need to be right downtown. In other words, anything north of Bloor* might as well be full of idiot hillbillies that you wouldn’t want working at your company. This sounds insane but I’ve heard as much from VPs in my industry.

At the same time, rents and property pricing are so high downtown (due in large part to decades of low density zoning and NIMBYism), that a sizeable proportion of those who work these jobs live North of the city. I’d be willing to bet that the younger the worker, the farther North they live, simply because younger people have been priced out.

This results in a morning-South, evening-North migration into and out of the city every day. Because the city is hemmed in by the lake to the South, more “affordable” housing can only be found in three directions.

If a company were to move uptown, commuting distances might actually improve, since competition for subway cars and roadways is much lighter going the opposite way of the daily migration.

Unless large amounts of affordable housing is built downtown to accommodate new, younger employees, commuting times will continue to grow and demands for salaries will increase to offset this. We will continue to hear “no one wants to work [for the salary I’m offering] any more”.

With WFH an option for many, it makes less and less sense to base the GTA’s economy downtown.

*for non-Torontonians, this is well within the City of Toronto, and is considered “downtown” by most

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Canada has been urbanizing a lot for decades, so nobody can be surprised Pikachu that cities are growing and putting strain on housing infrastructure therein.

Even though some people moved away from the downtown cores during the pandemic, the overwhelming trend has been to move to the large metropolitan areas due to disappearing rural industries and consequently a massive shift of jobs to those large metros.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Guest2553 posted:

So this is how nationalist populism will arrive in Canada. Neat.

I’d expect this to be a bigger part of elections going forward, but every party wants to keep the immigration wheels greased. Counting down to a Canadian style AfD.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

the talent deficit posted:

i had an uber driver in montreal last week who was some high up government official in yemen during the civil war. he showed me pictures of him with colin powell, condoleeza rice, george w bush and robert gates. he told me about fleeing to the usa as a refugee via somalia and how he then snuck across the canadian border to claim refugee status because canada offered better family reunification options. then he tried to convince me to marry his daughter and told me he wanted to become a cop because he misses having a gun

the canadian dream

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

I’ve met plenty of people who think the status quo is just fine. Why yes they all own multiple properties, why do you ask?

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Typo posted:

Let's see in 6 months

the market mood is definitely changing: lots of listings, not a lot of sells going on

I’m definitely seeing this in my area as well.

For those of us who live in the GTHA, we’re a captive audience. There is a housing shortage here, all the jobs are here, and all the immigration is coming here (because all the jobs are here). I’m only anticipating a mild decline because people need to live somewhere, and Canadians are willing to sell their eyelids if it means they can afford their mortgage payment.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

I know anecdotes are not data but I’m wondering where someone would live that would make them think there is no housing shortage. I guess in some rural spots the population has remained stable for a while.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

Everytime someone posts numbers like those they conveniently fail to take into account that we took in relatively zero people during the pandemic, and that it's expected that we would be playing catchup for years afterwards. Like that guy is just straight up maliciously ignoring the pandemic entirely because he think it makes his point more effective. I'll only pay attention to stats if it takes everything into account, not just whatever cherry picked data is just attractive enough to make the front page of the nation's favorite right wing tabloid.

Population growth was outpacing building prior to the pandemic as well, so it doesn’t really matter.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2019.html posted:

In 2018, Canada welcomed the highest number of permanent residents since 1913 with over 321,000 admissions.

Statscan says around 200k housing units completed in 2018, by contrast. We’ve been running a housing deficit for a while.

The chudly types are getting big mad about immigration now, probably because housing has been mismanaged for decades with no real plan except number go up.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

How does it not matter? It’s one thing to say population is growing faster than houses, it’s another to frame the whole debate as the feds suddenly opening the floodgates without warning to hundreds of thousands more people. I’m happy to look at this years numbers but I want it contextualized with the numbers of people we didn’t take in as a result of the pandemic, but I guess nobody wants to post that so I’ll stop there.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood your post. I was just saying the situation is bad no matter how you massage the numbers.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Here’s something that will make houses get built faster:

Ontario to end mandatory coroner's inquests on construction site deaths

quote:

Ontario intends to do away with mandatory coroner's inquests for workers who died on construction sites, the government said Thursday.

Instead, the province will conduct an annual review of construction site deaths in an effort to alleviate pressure on overloaded coroners, Solicitor General Michael Kerzner said.

Inquests of all kinds usually take years from the time of deaths until they are conducted, and similar deaths are often examined together.



Families and the construction industry can ask for an inquest by the Office of the Chief Coroner, which has the discretion to call one.

Countdown to the Coroner saying “nah we don’t need an inquest on this one, I’m sure everything Ellis Don/Aecon/PCL did was above board.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Big American companies are still definitely offshoring entire departments. Costa Rica is big for HR and payroll, India is still big for practically everything. We have a lot of clients who are big American companies operating in Canada, and waiting a few days after sending an email for time zones to roll over isn’t abnormal. I know of a few people at different companies whose managers aren’t even in the same country or time zone.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010


I still don’t see why we can’t halt immigration for a time. If you’ve already been accepted, we need to honour those agreements. But to continue this level of foreign student visas, for example, is insane. Do the colleges really have that much power? Do landlords?

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

Imagine if housing didn’t skyrocket when immigration was near zero

I know it’s not the cause of the mess we’re in but is there a point in continuing to exacerbate it? There are a thousand predatory “colleges” we can absolutely do without.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

I’m suggesting your solution is knee jerk and will have no effect

I disagree. It will definitely have an effect in major metro areas.

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

Ah, excellent counter point. I guess I’ll just refer back to the data point where immigration was zero and, uh, nothing happened. The opposite, in fact.

Was there an incredible dearth of places to live at that particular time? No? Did there happen to be a shitload of people already in the country having a hard time finding places to live? Also no?

E: when was this mythical time? Statscan has positive numbers going back to 1852

a primate fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 22, 2023

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

In fact here’s a thought experiment. In the news every single day we have home owners and landlords losing their poo poo over rising interest rates, Airbnb regulations, tenancy regulations, densification, etc.

I don’t recall any of them railing against PP’s genius idea of restricting immigration. Do you? What do you think this tells us about what needs to happen?

I guess I missed when PP decided to restrict immigration. All major parties have wanted to boost immigration for my entire lifetime. The only way they have differed is in making overtures to letting the “right kind” of people in.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

qhat posted:

You’re right, I got ahead of myself there. So let’s just agree that everyone agrees that immigration isn’t going to stop, because it’s counter productive.

Fair enough. It would probably nuke the economy. Something about the predatory nature of student visas and it potentially exacerbating the housing situation really bothers me though.

qhat posted:

You don’t get off that easy. Can you think of any time, any time at all, where immigration was, by law, by far the lowest it has been at any time in recent memory, say the past 30 years? Do you remember what house prices did in that time?

No, you got me there. You did say zero immigration though, which is what’s throwing me off.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply