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Zombies' Downfall
Aug 20, 2005

That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives.


Samurai Sanders posted:

edit: ^^^ the reason why having lots of difficulty levels is sometimes a problem is because usually only one or a few of them is really playtested for good pacing and stuff, the others are just stuck in with higher/lower damage numbers and no thought given to how much fun they are to play. If there's only one difficulty level, like Demon's/Dark Souls, then that takes away the difficulty of trying to guess which ones were actually playtested well.

The Souls games are also examples where the above-average difficulty level is keyed into the game's tone and thematic content, and offering a difficulty level that was essentially "Tell Me a Story" would cause the people who completed it that way to experience the game in a fractured state and misunderstand the story they were being told. If the idea of a perfect game is one where there's a seamless marriage of gameplay and artistic content, where one reinforces the other and nothing in either is wasted, it stands to reason that difficulty level (a game mechanic) must also be fixed at least in some games.

I can't really think of any opposite examples at the moment, easy games where making them "Dante Must Die" hard would ruin the game; maybe Kirby's Epic Yarn. I don't think a lot of games see difficulty level this way yet, probably because most of them are still interested in being commercially-viable products above anything else (and thus unwilling to say "maybe this just doesn't speak to you" when somebody whines about a game being too easy or hard) and there are even indie devs who don't "get" that point about the Souls games and think every game would be better if it had 10 levels of challenge granularity.

It's weird in the context of these character action games, because for regular people what's fun about them is mashing A and doing ludicrous things to absurd foes and feeling like a badass while for the fans what's fun about them is punishing difficulty and mastering the system. Maybe that just means they're a good example of games where selectable difficulty is a good idea from an artistic perspective.

Zombies' Downfall fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2013 around 22:28

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notZaar
Jan 7, 2004



Zombies' Downfall posted:



I can't really think of any opposite examples at the moment, easy games where making them "Dante Must Die" hard would ruin the game; maybe Kirby's Epic Yarn. I don't think a lot of games see difficulty level this way yet, probably because most of them are still interested in being commercially-viable products above anything else (and thus unwilling to say "maybe this just doesn't speak to you" when somebody whines about a game being too easy or hard) and there are even indie devs who don't "get" that point about the Souls games and think every game would be better if it had 10 levels of challenge granularity.

I can think of some, games like Ico or Shadow of the Colossus. Those are games where the clumsy, clunky nature of the combat reinforces the narrative and adds to the experience.

CrashScreen
Nov 11, 2012

Whoops.


Does the demo have anything like Easy-Automatic enabled or something? There's been a few times now when I've used the palm fist attack in the middle of a combo without the right inputs. The same goes for launching enemies (and following them into the air). I wondered if purchasing the ability means that it has its own combo as well as the move to use whenever you wish, but I can't seem to replicate it. It just seems pretty random.

Bar Mitzvah
Feb 24, 2009


Am I missing something or do the VR missions not have any labels on the selection screen. Blindly selecting missions to see what happens is for the birds (especially with the load times).

RageBeef
Jul 27, 2010

HUH HEE HEE


Bar Mitzvah posted:

Am I missing something or do the VR missions not have any labels on the selection screen. Blindly selecting missions to see what happens is for the birds (especially with the load times).

Not really, the VR Missions don't go into much detail aside from a general overview of what your objective is e.g. eliminate all the enemies, make it to the goal, eliminate all enemies using a specific sub-weapon. It's really annoying because you'll go into an eliminate all the enemies mission thinking it should be pretty straight forward and then the game decides to throw you a curve ball and start you off against ~6 rocket launcher toting enemies who all happen to be drat near pinpoint accurate. Though you can usually make an educated guess on how difficult a mission is going to be by looking at what the times for getting a ranking are.

randombattle
Oct 16, 2008

This hand of mine shines and roars! It's bright cry tells me to grasp victory!



CrashScreen posted:

Does the demo have anything like Easy-Automatic enabled or something? There's been a few times now when I've used the palm fist attack in the middle of a combo without the right inputs. The same goes for launching enemies (and following them into the air). I wondered if purchasing the ability means that it has its own combo as well as the move to use whenever you wish, but I can't seem to replicate it. It just seems pretty random.

There are a ton of combos that can be done from going from light to heavy attacks. Some do moves like the palm thrust in them or similar kinds of moves. Even in the demo there are a ton of little combos that can really help out depending on when you do a strong attack off a light or vice versa.

Kloro
Oct 24, 2008

Fancy a grown man saying hujus hujus hujus as if he were proud of it it is not english and do not make SENSE.

Zombies' Downfall posted:

I can't really think of any opposite examples at the moment, easy games where making them "Dante Must Die" hard would ruin the game; maybe Kirby's Epic Yarn.

Saint's Row:The Third, I think. Making it realistically difficult would fundamentally undermine the nature of the game.

On the game: The demo was a compelling mix of Bayonetta and Fruit Ninja, and I'm hoping for a properly catbananas crazy plot, so this is pretty much a day one purchase for me.

Kloro fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2013 around 23:31

CrashScreen
Nov 11, 2012

Whoops.


randombattle posted:

There are a ton of combos that can be done from going from light to heavy attacks. Some do moves like the palm thrust in them or similar kinds of moves. Even in the demo there are a ton of little combos that can really help out depending on when you do a strong attack off a light or vice versa.

Yeah, that's what I thought, but whenever I tried to use the same inputs I couldn't replicate half of them. I guess I'm not paying enough attention to what I'm doing when it comes to the strings.

CrashScreen fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 00:24

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

AG: Flyyyyyyyy!


I just played up till the first demo fight on hard. Yeah, everything is way more aggressive. Even the Ray fight in the intro stage does not stand around for long.

As an aside, I never got into them while playing the demo, but dang there are a lot of codec calls. I can only speak for myself, but I do like the super/insane science of the metal gear series. Otherwise, they all can be safely skipped.

Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2013 around 23:55

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

AG: Flyyyyyyyy!


CrashScreen posted:

Yeah, that's what I thought, but whenever I tried to use the same inputs I couldn't replicate half of them. I guess I'm not paying enough attention to what I'm doing when it comes to the strings.

Some of the moves require joystick motions. For example, the palm blast is back forward square\X

Edit: one more thing, during the walk and talk convos, you can fast forward them once the next part of the stage is loaded.

Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2013 around 23:59

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Smile and celebrate the days of old!
Salute to all the men whose stories been told!


Unlucky7 posted:

Edit: one more thing, during the walk and talk convos, you can fast forward them once the next part of the stage is loaded.

YES! This was the one part of the demo that I saw as a genuine flaw of the game, so glad these are skippable now.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

what even the heck


Unlucky7 posted:

Edit: one more thing, during the walk and talk convos, you can fast forward them once the next part of the stage is loaded.

Hell to the gently caress yes, after Vanquish I had my doubts.

Oh, Platinum, you're always willing to improve.

CrashScreen
Nov 11, 2012

Whoops.


Unlucky7 posted:

Some of the moves require joystick motions. For example, the palm blast is back forward square\X

Edit: one more thing, during the walk and talk convos, you can fast forward them once the next part of the stage is loaded.

Yeah, I knew about the first one. There's been time when Raiden used it and I didn't put in the appropriate inputs which has me quite perplexed though. A back, forward motion isn't easy to do by accident either.

I didn't know the last thing though. I just sat through them. Good to know. How do you fast forward them? Circle/B, presumably?

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

AG: Flyyyyyyyy!


CrashScreen posted:

Yeah, I knew about the first one. There's been time when Raiden used it and I didn't put in the appropriate inputs which has me quite perplexed though. A back, forward motion isn't easy to do by accident either.

I didn't know the last thing though. I just sat through them. Good to know. How do you fast forward them? Circle/B, presumably?

Triangle\Y

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



I just started hard mode on Bayonetta again and I'm realizing that on a pure technical level my ceiling for games like this is still relatively low. I seriously wonder what the top end in MGRR is going to look like. Also does anyone know whether the higher difficulty levels affect numbers/types of enemies and their AI, or just stats?

Crowbear
Jun 17, 2009

You freak me out, man!


Samurai Sanders posted:

Also does anyone know whether the higher difficulty levels affect numbers/types of enemies and their AI, or just stats?

You'll get harder enemies earlier on harder difficulties and they'll be more aggressive. I've also heard that starting on Very Hard the parry window is actually smaller.

e: I guess the different enemy placement starts on Very Hard as well.

Also my Badass Plasma Lamp edition just shipped I'm so excited

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

AG: Flyyyyyyyy!


Samurai Sanders posted:

I just started hard mode on Bayonetta again and I'm realizing that on a pure technical level my ceiling for games like this is still relatively low. I seriously wonder what the top end in MGRR is going to look like. Also does anyone know whether the higher difficulty levels affect numbers/types of enemies and their AI, or just stats?

Going from normal to hard, the AI is more aggressive. I do not see any different spawns yet, though.

tazman
Jan 23, 2005
hammer time

Unlucky7 posted:

Going from normal to hard, the AI is more aggressive. I do not see any different spawns yet, though.

Even just this would be enough for me (I'm sure Platinum will do more but still!). I'm just so sick of high difficulty = higher enemy hp and damage.

Dominic White
Nov 1, 2005

We're marooned on a small island in an endless sea, confined to a tiny spit of sand, unable to escape.

But tonight, on this small planet, we're gonna rock civilization.

tazman posted:

Even just this would be enough for me (I'm sure Platinum will do more but still!). I'm just so sick of high difficulty = higher enemy hp and damage.

It's confirmed that Revengeance difficulty is the classic Platinum 'second loop' mode, where you start out with all your endgame gear, and the game is trying to murder you right from the start, throwing top-tier enemies at you almost instantly. Hard mode is just Normal with the brakes cut.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



So where does Very Hard fall then?

Dominic White
Nov 1, 2005

We're marooned on a small island in an endless sea, confined to a tiny spit of sand, unable to escape.

But tonight, on this small planet, we're gonna rock civilization.

Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

So where does Very Hard fall then?

Someone with the game will have to compare - are the enemy placements the same between VH and Revengeance? If not, then that's pretty exciting, as it means there's effectively three loops.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



Dominic White posted:

Someone with the game will have to compare - are the enemy placements the same between VH and Revengeance? If not, then that's pretty exciting, as it means there's effectively three loops.

Based on their previous releases of Bayonetta and Vanquish, I would assume that very hard and revengeance have the same enemy layout.


edit:vvv I believe that is right.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 03:00

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



The enemy placement and AI doesn't change in Bayonetta above hard though right? It just takes away witch time in Non-Stop Climax mode (but apparently you can still use the magic beads that turn witch time into explosions?). At least that's what I heard, I don't know if I will ever beat hard mode in that game. Does MGRR take away a feature like that on the final difficulty level?

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 03:01

swamp waste
Nov 4, 2009

9500 YEARS CALL FOR DESTRUCTION


There's this move I can do like half the time-- maybe I missed something-- but the input is something like towards + square and it's just a quick dash, almost like the stinger without the attack. Seems like I can only do it at an enemy who just bounced off a parry, but I'm not sure about the timing; sometimes a normal light attack comes out instead. Anyone know how it works?

Wooph
Oct 28, 2010

by angerbot


That's just the game's auto targeting/context system. If there's an enemy that's out of reach, you'll automatically close in when pressing the light attack button.

Also, I can confirm that a no kills run of sorts is possible in this game. Take a limb off a cyborg then move away. They'll engage their cloak and be effectively removed from battle. Anything other than cyborgs are ok to destroy. You'll be rewarded 1500 points for doing this.

Wooph fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 03:12

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

AG: Flyyyyyyyy!


Wooph posted:

That's just the game's auto targeting/context system. If there's an enemy that's out of reach, you'll automatically close in when pressing the light attack button.

Also, I can confirm that a no kills run of sorts is possible in this game. Take a limb off a cyborg then move away. They'll engage their cloak and be effectively removed from battle.

Don't still they attack you?

I kind of want to restart the first stage, because I felt I kind of struggled through the last part of the boss fight. Just a pride thing.

However, I do not see a quick switch between weapon configurations, which is kind of annoying. I'd love to be wrong though.

Also, setting nano paste as a healing item has it used when your health runs out.

Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 03:30

Wooph
Oct 28, 2010

by angerbot


They will attack, but only while you are close. I agree with the weapon switching being annoying. I don't like how you have to stop moving until you can even bring up the selection menu.

RageBeef
Jul 27, 2010

HUH HEE HEE


Unlucky7 posted:

However, I do not see a quick switch between weapon configurations, which is kind of annoying. I'd love to be wrong though.

So would I but that doesn't seem to be the case from what I can see. It wouldn't be such a big deal if you could access the equip menu during combos instead of having to come back to the neutral/walking position, not a deal breaker but it's been really limited my experimenting with other custom weapons so I've been sticking with the Pole-arm, though to be fair the Pole-arm is a fantastic and fun weapon.

Crowbear
Jun 17, 2009

You freak me out, man!


I just went and read impressions from people elsewhere on the internet that got the game early and now I want to die.

The number of posts complaining about the lack of a move list and dodge mechanic, and saying that the game is 4-5 hours long is astounding. It constantly amazes me how goddamn stupid the average gamer can be.

The reviews and forum chatter once it's released are going to be unbearable. Thank god I have this bastion of sanity to save me from it all.

e: Also the number of people comparing it to the "near flawless" new DmC game. Goddamnit.

Rageaholic Monkey
May 31, 2005

You have my permission to
STAY OUT OF THE
FUCKING WAY!


Crowbear posted:

e: Also the number of people comparing it to the "near flawless" new DmC game. Goddamnit.

The one which I played for 2 hours and then uninstalled?

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

what even the heck


Crowbear posted:

I just went and read impressions from people elsewhere on the internet that got the game early and now I want to die.

The number of posts complaining about the lack of a move list and dodge mechanic, and saying that the game is 4-5 hours long is astounding. It constantly amazes me how goddamn stupid the average gamer can be.

The reviews and forum chatter once it's released are going to be unbearable. Thank god I have this bastion of sanity to save me from it all.

e: Also the number of people comparing it to the "near flawless" new DmC game. Goddamnit.

That "near flawless" game sold about as well as a leaky jar full of the hantavirus, so I can't imagine there's going to be much overlap between people who played both.

incorporeal
May 6, 2006



cool, we really need more people talking about DmC, is hasn't got old yet... nope.



Are the PS3 VR missions a pre-order thing or you just get them for having the PS3 version? Had the 360 version pre-ordered but going to switch it since I heard the ps3 version has v-sync and gets more vr missions. Actually got tuesday off, going to nerd out all day and play this.

Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


The extra VR missions will be DLC for PS3 later. They aren't pre-order DLC.

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005

THAT'S WHAT THE SONG WAS REALLY ABOUT


There is a movelist when you press start.

Edit: and it's not 4 hours long and there is a dodge you're just encouraged to parry a lot more.

THE AWESOME GHOST fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 05:34

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


Crowbear posted:

I just went and read impressions from people elsewhere on the internet that got the game early and now I want to die.

The number of posts complaining about the lack of a move list and dodge mechanic, and saying that the game is 4-5 hours long is astounding. It constantly amazes me how goddamn stupid the average gamer can be.

The reviews and forum chatter once it's released are going to be unbearable. Thank god I have this bastion of sanity to save me from it all.

Those sound like legitimate complaints though...? Not enough to necessarily make it a bad game, but still.

Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


RatHat posted:

Those sound like legitimate complaints though...? Not enough to necessarily make it a bad game, but still.

They would be, but the first two aren't true, and the third one isn't true for first playthroughs unless you play on a lower difficulty level or are just really good at action games.

Crowbear
Jun 17, 2009

You freak me out, man!


Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

They would be, but the first two aren't true, and the third one isn't true for first playthroughs unless you play on a lower difficulty level or are just really good at action games.

The third one also isn't true because these people are just taking the time off the stats screen at the end which only takes into account your fastest times between checkpoints, and doesn't count retries, deaths, and cutscenes.

J Bjelke-Postersen
Sep 16, 2007

I have a 6 point plan to stop the boats.....or turn them around or something....No wait what were those points again....Are there really 6?


I will probably spend 50-80 hours on this trying to get good enough to tackle crazy mode with blade wolves and bullshit from start to finish which is significantly longer than I spent on Uncharted or Darksiders games which had long gameplay and cutscene sections but gently caress playing with that combat on a high difficulty.

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

AG: Flyyyyyyyy!


Honestly, the biggest flaw for me is the lack of a quick weapon switch, and you need to completely stop to switch weapons. Otherwise, it is great.

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Good Person
Nov 5, 2007

i can sense it in my feet

I think, the idea is that you're supposed to choose a weapon and stick with it for that stage or at least battle. Seems like it would have been trivial for them to put in a faster weapon switch, it's probably a design decision.

In another note, this shirt looks really cool:

http://www.uniqlo.com/jp/store/feature/uq/ut/metalgear/

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