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Viscardus posted:I just want to apologize to anyone who noticed my absence here. It turns out I picked kind of a bad time to restart this - I've been a lot busier than expected over the last couple of weeks. I just want to make it clear that this isn't dying or anything, but updates will probably be a bit sparse for a while. Not exactly a triumphant relaunching of the LP, especially since we've been over this stuff already, but the LP will continue eventually. It's ok, I'm sure you'll pick up after the early stages are over and done with and the game's world can really shoot off in its own unique direction and we the Goons get a hand in leading Sicily to
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Mar 10, 2013 21:10
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Viscardus posted:I just want to apologize to anyone who noticed my absence here. It turns out I picked kind of a bad time to restart this - I've been a lot busier than expected over the last couple of weeks. I just want to make it clear that this isn't dying or anything, but updates will probably be a bit sparse for a while. Not exactly a triumphant relaunching of the LP, especially since we've been over this stuff already, but the LP will continue eventually. Well, what can you do really? Such is life at times. It is somewhat relieving to see a sign of life here though, to ease up on the waiting. I would've almost thought you to be dead if I hadn't seen your activity at other places. But as have been said, take your time! We'll await your glorious return on a chariot pulled by Greek, Muslim, Napelian and Norman feet alike!
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Mar 11, 2013 01:55
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Chapter Three: Jewel of the Mediterranean (1069-74) As his state grows in size and power, Duke Robert is forced to spend more and more time managing his vassals. Many of them are accustomed to relative independence, and it is a struggle for Robert to impose their feudal obligations upon them.  Robert is not one to dedicate too much time on domestic affairs, however, and it isn’t long before he’s planning his next campaign – this one to expel Landolf of Capua from Benevento.  He assembles a smaller army than he did for the Sicilian invasion, but it his forces still outnumber the Lombards 3 to 1.  The battle is a straightforward victory for the Normans, and Landolf’s holdings are quickly put under siege.  Establishing control over the area is a simple affair, though the city of Benevento is left untouched, as it is still under Papal protection.  Landolf is forced to flee north, and the war is effectively won.  Robert grants control over the area to his brother Humbert, once again using his extensive family ties to maintain stability in his rapidly-expanding realm.  Or so he thinks. In reality, his brothers and nephews seem as likely as anyone to scheme against each other during peacetime.   Two years after the expulsion of Landolf, Robert receives news that turns his eyes to the east. Isaakios Komnenos, the nephew of a previous Byzantine Emperor, has begun a rebellion against Konstantinos X.  Much of the empire’s Adriatic coast is in chaos, and Robert cannot turn down the opportunity to strike another blow against the Greeks.  He gathers his largest army yet to be transported across the strait to the vital port of Dyrrachion.  The local defenders are no match for the Norman army, and the civil war rules out any chance of reinforcements.  The siege of Dyrrachion is long and difficult, isolated as the Normans are from their own lands, and the army takes heavy casualties.  The city eventually falls, however, and Robert’s army quickly establishes control over it and the surrounding area.  With no hope of help from Constantinople, Dyrrachion is now firmly under Norman control.  Not wanting to risk further aggression in Greece just yet, Robert returns to Italy, leaving his nephew Richard to govern his new Greek lands.  Back in Italy, Robert encourages immigrants from the north, including many Jews fleeing chaos and persecution in Germany and northern Italy.  Robert’s son Bohemond comes of age, demonstrating similar martial prowess to his father.  Looking to solidify his shaky grip on his new Greek lands – and perhaps gain a claim to more – Robert arranges for Bohemond to marry Sophia Komnenos, eldest daughter of the rebel leader Isaakios.  Robert still prefers war to peace, however, and the very next year he declares a new campaign for Sicily, this time aiming to bring the entire island under his control.   The remaining Muslim lords of Sicily band together to resist Robert at the Battle of Girgenti, the largest battle of the war.  The battle is bloody, but ultimately Norman arms prevail once again.  The army is split and sieges proceed against the remaining Muslim strongholds.  It isn’t long before the last cities fall.   The major Muslim lords are forced into exile, and those that remain are forced to accept Norman rule.   For the first time in hundreds of years, the entirety of Sicily, Jewel of the Mediterranean, is under Christian rule. 
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Mar 25, 2013 07:38
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Good to see this updating again 
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Mar 25, 2013 10:15
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Looking forward to more of this, pity it didn't work first time around.
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Mar 25, 2013 13:36
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We're more or less where we were in the last incarnation aren't we? I can't remember if Robert was dead or not.
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Mar 25, 2013 21:44
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General Antares posted:We're more or less where we were in the last incarnation aren't we? I can't remember if Robert was dead or not. No, we're still a ways away from that. The crashes started to become overwhelming during the reign of Bohemond II, Robert's great-grandson. That was about 100 years after game start. That said, we're at the point where things are going to start diverging more and more.
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Mar 25, 2013 22:05
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Next time, in Kingdom in the Sun: In an effort to grow closer to his new Sicilian subjects, the d'Hautvilles rejects the Pope and turn to the glory of Allha. What does the Vatican, and more importantly the Kaiser, think of that? Stay tuned and find out, in the next episode of Kingdom in the Sun Z!
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Mar 26, 2013 00:37
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Luhood posted:Next time, in Kingdom in the Sun: Just wait until you actually see the next update.
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Mar 26, 2013 01:08
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Viscardus posted:Just wait until you actually see the next update. Yeah, no point in speculating until it's confirmed to exist.
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Mar 27, 2013 15:52
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I do have one complaint, that the screenshots in the LP are for the most part only menu or event shots. In the whole of the last update, only 4 screenshots showed any parts of the map, and where you'd expect there to be one (such as our borders after the conquest of Dyrrachion) there was none. I mean, there's stuff like thisViscardus posted:With no hope of help from Constantinople, Dyrrachion is now firmly under Norman control. Viscardus posted:The major Muslim lords are forced into exile, and those that remain are forced to accept Norman rule. You don't need to show us that many different screenshots of the victory events for the wars, you've mentioned it in the text already; you could condense multiple ones from simultaneous wars in one screenshot, or place them horizontally, and leave more space (maybe at least just vertical space!) for map shots, or, more generally, put them and a map shot in the same image. Perhaps not everyone minds it, but I personally think a long stream of almost exclusively menu, event, and message interfaces is boring.
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Mar 27, 2013 16:50
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YF-23 posted:You don't need to show us that many different screenshots of the victory events for the wars, you've mentioned it in the text already; you could condense multiple ones from simultaneous wars in one screenshot, or place them horizontally, and leave more space (maybe at least just vertical space!) for map shots, or, more generally, put them and a map shot in the same image. Perhaps not everyone minds it, but I personally think a long stream of almost exclusively menu, event, and message interfaces is boring. Thanks. This is good advice and something that had actually occurred to me before (but that I ended up not really doing anything about). I'll try to improve this going forward (although the screenshots for the next two updates were already done, so I was only able to make minor changes for them).
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Mar 31, 2013 00:34
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Chapter Four: Coronation (1075-1084) Robert grants his eldest son Bohemond control over most of the newly-conquered Sicilian lands as a reward for his participation in the campaign.  Robert’s younger sons come of age themselves over the next few years. Roger proves not to have the same sort of aptitude for or interest in combat that Robert and Bohemond do, but Guy follows in his father’s footsteps.   In early 1078, Pope Alexander II finally passes away. The selection of his successor, Gelasius II, divides Rome bitterly, and it briefly seems that another antipope may rise. Only a week into his reign, however, Gelasius falls ill and dies, supposedly of pneumonia, and his bitterest opponent, Cardinal Ghisi, is elected as Pope Anacletus II.  Rome falls into chaos as the late Gelasius’s supporters accuse Anacletus of having poisoned his rival. Robert, ever the opportunist, declares that the situation in Rome has imperilled the people of Benevento and announces his intention to bring the city under Norman control for its own safety.  The city surrenders quickly, not having any hope of standing up to the Normans without Papal support.  Robert does not stop at the annexation of Benevento, however. Appointing himself mediator of the ongoing Roman crisis, he marches on the Eternal City itself.  As the occupation begins, the Norman army is left vulnerable by the outbreak of disease, but the Roman forces are incapable of taking advantage.  The largest Papal army is crushed at Viterbo, leaving the Pope to hope for intervention from the north as his last possible salvation.  Such intervention never comes, however, and Rome itself eventually falls. Robert attempts to minimize wanton destruction, but the city is thoroughly sacked nonetheless.  Captured by the Normans and with his reign in jeopardy, Anacletus offers Robert a desperate bargain: in exchange for Robert’s support in maintaining his papacy, the Pope will make him a king. After some deliberation, Robert accepts, and on Christmas Day, 1080, he is crowned King of Sicily by Anacletus II.  Robert’s brother-in-law Richard Drengot accepts Robert’s overlordship, finally uniting all of the Normans of Italy under a single state.  Robert takes the opportunity to require renewed oaths of loyalty from his vassals, including new restrictions. Mostly notably, the ancient right of feud is abolished, making it a crime for Robert’s vassals to wage war upon each other.  Robert also takes the opportunity to elevate Bohemond, his expected heir, to the rank of Duke of Sicily.  It isn’t long before the new king’s eyes turn once again to war. This time he resolves to finally remove the last trace of Greek power from Italy with an invasion of Naples.  No longer part of the Byzantine Empire, the Neapolitans cannot stand against the ever-growing Norman state.  The Neapolitan army is defeated, and it looks to be only a matter of time until Naples is incorporated into Robert’s kingdom.  Things become even more hopeless when Doux Sergios dies during the siege, further demoralizing the defenders.  Finally, the city is surrendered, ending the last independent Greek state in Italy.  Good news is followed by bad, however, when word reaches Robert that his younger brother Roger has passed away. It is a reminder of his own mortality.  For now, though, King Robert’s legacy seems secure. 
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Mar 31, 2013 00:35
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What's up with Salerno?
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Mar 31, 2013 00:38
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paragon1 posted:What's up with Salerno? It's still ruled by Gisulf of Salerno, Robert's brother-in-law and all-around awful person.
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Mar 31, 2013 00:45
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Man I didn't expect we'd be invading Rome. Cool stuff!Viscardus posted:It's still ruled by Gisulf of Salerno, Robert's brother-in-law and all-around awful person.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:02
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From the first update: Impaler, Envious, Greedy, Proud, Cruel, Wroth, and Arbitrary. I actually added all of those to the history files for my personal version, based on historical evidence that he was a gigantic rear end in a top hat who regularly tortured people and starved his own citizens. He also despised the Normans and repeatedly antagonized them, which I'm sure you can guess was extremely unwise at the time.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:11
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Man, you aren't joking.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisulf_II_of_Salernoquote:Gisulf was the eldest son and successor of Guaimar IV and Gemma, daughter of the Capuan count Laidulf. He appears as a villain and a pirate in the chronicle of Amatus of Montecassino, Ystoire de li Normant. Historian John Julius Norwich (The Normans in the South pg. 201n) speaks "of one unfortunate victim [an Amalfitan] whom Gisulf kept in an icy dungeon, removing first his right eye and then every day one more of his fingers and toes. He [Amatus] adds that the Empress Agnes—who was spending much of her time in South Italy—personally offered a hundred pounds of gold and one of her own fingers in ransom, but her prayers went unheard."
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Mar 31, 2013 10:05
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I love it when real historical figures are just as sadistic and horrible as random CK2 characters. I mean that guy was an all round awful person but it makes things so colourful! 
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Apr 1, 2013 21:55
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Chapter Five: Consolidation (1085-1086) While the Norman state is establishing its dominance in southern Italy, the Bosonids of Provence have been establishing their power in the north after inheriting the Duchies of Tuscany and Modena. Now relatively free from the Holy Roman yoke, they are a powerful potential rival for the Normans.  Robert is more than happy to test himself against the Occitans when tensions escalate along the border.  The first skirmish of the war is a Norman victory, but it says little about how the war will go.  The Bosonids have the disadvantage of a disconnected realm, leaving them unable to reinforce their border towns in time.  The Norman armies advance further north than ever before, waiting for the inevitable response from their enemies.  The Occitans take their time, however, and Spoleto falls in the meantime, giving the Normans a chokehold on the lower part of the peninsula.  Or so they think. An Occitan army manages to bypass the Norman armies and lay siege to Capua. Robert is forced to return south to deal with them.  He is injured in the battle, however, briefly leaving the larger Norman army in chaos.  Prince Bohemond acquits himself well in his father’s absence and rallies the army to another crushing victory.  Duke Jaufret elects to make peace, ceding control of Teate to the Normans in exchange for guarantees against further Norman aggression.  Once again, Robert hands out newly-conquered lands to his son, this time giving them to Prince Roger.  Word reaches Italy from the east that the Muslims are once again pushing against the eastern border of the Byzantine Empire.  Robert is more interesting in news from closer to home. Not long after the conclusion of the war with the Bosonids, Robert’s brother-in-law Gisulf of Salerno dies, leaving his realm in the hands of his young son.  Robert quickly declares himself protector of the young duke, though he has no intention of allowing his hated brother-in-law’s progeny to rule anything. In reality, it is little more than a declaration of war.  The meagre Salernitan defences are instantly overwhelmed, and the city is taken.  The young duke is quickly shipped off, and the city is brought under Norman rule, putting an end to the last Lombard state in southern Italy.  Predictably, Robert appoints his third son, Guy, to rule the city and surrounding lands.  While King Robert eliminates the last independent states of the Mezzogiorno, Prince Bohemond is planning an expedition to the tiny island of Malta.  His Sicilian army is small compared to the ones his father can raise on the mainland, but he has more than enough men to take the island.  The Maltese resist valiantly, but they are no match for the Normans.  By the end of 1085, Sicily and the Mezzogiorno are unified and the Norman realm stretches from Malta in the south to Teate in the north. 
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Apr 5, 2013 09:56
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I'm really rooting for Provence there to keep their territory together, it always annoys me that the AI never seems to manage to keep Matilda's inheritance in one piece.
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Apr 5, 2013 10:24
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 Now we're kings of a unified kingdom, I guess that brings our obvious course of expansion to an end. Seems like it's about time for a Goon Council to take up decision-making.RabidWeasel posted:I'm really rooting for Provence there to keep their territory together, it always annoys me that the AI never seems to manage to keep Matilda's inheritance in one piece. Yeah Provence looks beautifully set up as our rival, I'm really hoping they manage to hold together and pose a threat to us.
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Apr 5, 2013 10:27
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Sounds like the Byzantines are getting jihad steamrolled this game. Oh, and since we're a king now, are you planning to create a republic vassal duke? They can give a lot of extra taxes.
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Apr 5, 2013 16:27
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Sindai posted:Sounds like the Byzantines are getting jihad steamrolled this game. Viscardus posted:I am actually using the last build of CK2+ prior to The Republic and the accompanying patch. This is in part because I don't want to deal with as-yet-unfixed bugs and such in The Republic and partly to remove the temptation of updating at all (because that is what killed the last LP and I am still sort of upset with myself for letting that happen). Given that The Republic and its patch don't add a huge amount of content if you're not actually playing as a republic, I didn't feel like this was a major sacrifice.
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Apr 5, 2013 16:56
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It adds an insanely powerful threat to the game, but unless you want to deal with massive armies of mercs stomping all over your coastal provences it's not worth it imo. So are you going to try to unify the Italian states this time? You were after Greece last time, but Italy seems pretty tempting right now. I always try to get Matilda to marry my Heir so I can snag it during the inevitable rebellion. Fighting for it is the more Norman thing to do though.
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Apr 5, 2013 18:18
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I'd imagine that, like last time, we'll give the direction of our expansion.
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Apr 5, 2013 21:01
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Chapter Six: Succession (1087-1094) The conquests of Salerno and Malta prove to be the last of Robert’s distinguished career. His last two years are spent quietly in his capital before he passes away at the age of 73. His eldest son Bohemond is crowned king, as Robert wished.  King Bohemond is an impressive young man, quite possibly a match for his father in military prowess. His interests are not exclusively military, though, and over a decade spent in Sicily has imprinted some of the island’s more peaceful, cosmopolitan nature onto his warlike Norman heart.  His queen is Sophia Komnenos, great niece of Emperor Isaac I and a member of one of the most power families of the Byzantine Empire.  Bohemond’s ascension does not go entirely smoothly. Only a few days after his quick coronation, his brother Roger declares himself king and raises an army to march on Apulia.  Guy does not take much longer, raising an army of his own in Salerno.  Desperate to keep the support of his other vassals, Bohemond names his cousin Botolf Duke of Calabria, securing his support.  Botolf and Richard Drengot both stay loyal even as the counts of Taranto, Bari, and Dyrrachion rebel. All of them support Guy, leaving Roger without supporters.  Chieti falls quickly to Duke Richard and Bohemond’s northern vassals, and Roger is quickly defeated and captured.  Taking Salerno is more difficult, but Bohemond’s Sicilian armies are eventually able to defeat Guy’s men and capture him, ending the rebellion.  Bohemond chooses to take the merciful route, pardoning and releasing both of his brothers. Both swear oaths of fealty to Bohemond in exchange for his mercy.  Not long after her husband’s coronation, Queen Sophia falls ill. She lingers only a short time before passing away, leaving Bohemond a widower.  With the tragedy comes opportunity, however, as Bohemond is able to make an extraordinary match, negotiating a marriage with the young queen of Castille. They are married in Barcelona, at the court of the King of Aragon, Robert’s brother-in-law and Margarita’s distant cousin.  Queen Margarita is not an especially capable ruler in her own right, and the marriage to Bohemond is largely to secure Norman support against possible claims against her throne by other members of the expansive Jimena dynasty.  His relations with his brothers now repaired, Bohemond names his brother Guy Duke of Salerno.  Roger is likewise named Duke of Benevento.  Word comes from the east that the Byzantines are in full retreat from Anatolia, abandoning it to the hordes of Arab and Turkish troops that have invaded it.  Arslan Shah, third son of the Seljuk ruler Alp Arslan, has proclaimed himself Sultan of Rum, and the Byzantine Empire appears weaker than ever.  In Sicily, the years of peace are finally paying dividends, as the island prospers under Bohemond’s rule.  Bohemond’s vassals are less pleased with his rule, however, and many of them request a reduction in their taxes and military obligations, which the king refuses.  This does not go over well, and a group of vassals led by Richard Drengot make their dissatisfaction with Bohemond’s rule very clear.  Bohemond is undeterred, and continues to raise taxes within the realm.  This, combined with the continued economic prosperity on the island of Sicily, helps to fill the crown’s coffers.  Most expect Bohemond to embark upon his first foreign campaign since his coronation soon, and this speculation is only encouraged as his eldest son Robert comes of age.  Few expect the news that comes from Rome, however. The Pope has called for a crusade to Jerusalem, urging all of Christendom to take up arms against the Famitids.  Naturally, Bohemond is asked to join the crusade, and Pope Anacletus is quick to remind him of to whom he owes his crown. Bohemond has mixed feelings about the crusade, however: while it could be the glorious military expedition he craves, it would be extremely unpopular with his Muslim subjects. Further, Bohemond’s precarious situation with his rebellious vassals means that he cannot afford to make any sort of decision lightly. Fortunately, this is the perfect opportunity for Bohemond to implement one of his most important innovations: the Curia Regis. While all kings have advisors, Bohemond goes a step further, creating a formal royal council to advise him on any and all matters of state. Membership is naturally entirely at his discretion, and he reserves the ultimate power to follow or disregard the advice of the council. Nevertheless, this body, open to nobles, priests, and even skilled commoners, is meant to bring stability and centralization to the young kingdom, as well as curtail of the powers of the regional nobility. The first major question brought before the Curia Regis is whether or not the Kingdom of Sicily should join the crusade. Besides the religious justification, it is an opportunity for glory and to expand Sicily’s influence by contributing to what could be a defining moment in history. The Fatimids are strong, however, and many see the crusade as doomed to failure even with Norman support. Supporting a holy war is also unlikely to be popular with Bohemond’s many Muslim subjects on Sicily itself.  Many prefer to avoid the conflict entirely, focusing on more practical matters closer to home. The Sicilian Kingdom is primed for expansion in every direction. To the east, the Byzantines are beginning to collapse. To the south, the African coast is a prime target for invasion. To the north, Italy is relatively free of the Holy Roman Emperor and could be united by a strong Sicilian hand. Finally, to the west, Queen Margarita’s position in Castille is still precarious, and Spain offers a whole new frontier for Norman expansion. Each of these, argue some, is a more realistic target than the fool’s errand that is the crusade. 
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Apr 8, 2013 00:47
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As you'll already know if you read the previous thread, the audience of the thread will be playing the role of the Curia Regis, answering questions posed to it by the Kings of Sicily by voting and making arguments. Depending on the question, it may or may not be strictly democratic (Bohemond still retains the right to make his own decisions, but there wouldn't be much point in voting if people were constantly overruled). In this case, whether or not we go on crusade will be determined by a strict vote. If we end up not going on crusade, Bohemond may be influenced by arguments about where Sicily should expand, too, if there seems to be a consensus in the thread, but that won't be a strict vote (yet, at least).
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Apr 8, 2013 00:54
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I cast my vote against crusade! The pope is just another Italian, with a smaller army to boot. Also, that crown was given to our monarch's father, not to him.
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Apr 8, 2013 01:25
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So, from what I'm seeing here, we have five options available to us: Crusade! Never mind the fact that we're badly outnumbered and outmatched, let's show the Fatimids what for! Pros: Not really seeing any here... Cons: We'd get our asses handed to us on a silver platter. Westward Bound: With a potential claim on Castillian territory, we could take over some of Iberia's land. Pros: We'd be able to secure a strong source of income and men. Cons: Iberia is far from Sicily, and will be difficult to control. Into Africa: The Fatimids may be too powerful for us, but the independent Muslim states would be easy to sweep aside. Pros: We'd neutralize potential enemies. Cons: The Muslims would hate us every step of the way, and we might piss off the Fatimids. Return to Greece: With the Byzantium Empire falling apart, we could easily start moving into Greece. Pros: We'd get more land close to Sicily and we'd establish a bulwark against the Muslims. Cons: We'd also get into conflicts with Rum and Byzantium, both of which have a lot of men. Secure Italy: We should secure our borders so that we have a consolidated power base. Pros: We'd have a strong base from which to expand outwards. Cons: The Holy Roman Emperor will want the same lands that we do. Considering all of these options, I vote against crusading, and if we expand elsewhere I believe we should Secure Italy.
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Apr 8, 2013 01:37
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I cast my vote for Crusade. While our vassals may not like us now, but the cauldron of war, especially war in God's name, makes brothers of even old enemies. The opportunity to build up relations with our vassals and secure our place in Heaven is too good to pass up.
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Apr 8, 2013 01:37
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We should cultivate Muslim and Greek connections and try to become rich and technologically advanced.
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Apr 8, 2013 01:42
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Bugger Crusading, let's try and conquer up North. The peninsula is a logical boundary for our expansion at the moment.
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Apr 8, 2013 02:35
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Dibujante posted:We should cultivate Muslim and Greek connections and try to become rich and technologically advanced. This. No Crusade
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Apr 8, 2013 02:43
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Yes, we should Crusade as to forge the bonds of holy brotherhood within Sicily and with other good Catholic nations that join the Pope's call as well!
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Apr 8, 2013 02:53
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No Crusade! Losing our entire army in the desert surrounded by Arabs defending their own land isn't exactly a winning move for us. Better to focus our efforts on domestic concerns and more certain expansion closer to home.
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Apr 8, 2013 03:13
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No to the crusade. We should direct our attentions westward to Spain.
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Apr 8, 2013 03:16
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I'd need to know more about Spain. Who are we running up against and how much power do they have? Refusing a crusade invitation and then marching up towards Rome sounds like it would piss off a lot of Catholics. Spain would add a lot of wealth and offer future opportunities to expand into the lands of those dag blasted Iberian Muslim 
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Apr 8, 2013 03:27
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No crusade, push north into Italy.
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Apr 8, 2013 03:49
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No Crusade, and push North, or at the very least, ignore North Africa.
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Apr 8, 2013 03:55
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