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I have a group of friends that I play D&D with weekly. Although we started our weekly D&D sessions about 3 years ago, we've all been friends since sophomore year of high school. We're all turning 27/28 years old this year. Everyone in the group is well on their way working toward a career and is a professional in some capacity. Everyone, except one. In fact, he's been in and out of community college for 9 years and has never had a job in his life. I don't want to seem too harsh or that I'm trying to hold my success over him, but he doesn't seem motivated to do any better for himself. He still lives at home and his parents provide everything for him. I've recommended that he do volunteer work and have even invited him to do volunteer work with me. There are a few soup kitchens in our area and local animal shelters accept volunteers to walk dogs. At his college, there are clubs that clean up litter in the park every weekend. Basically, there are a myriad of things he could volunteer for that require no experience. What I'm asking is, how do I get him a job or enough experience to get a job? Maybe even, how do I motivate him to pursue more than playing video games at home? He's going on 28, and has absolutely no work experience. All of us in the group have suggested many things to him, but we're all busy with work/grad school/wives/families to hold his hand and make sure he does them. He's a very smart person and a good friend, and we all can provide opportunities for him. But first, he needs to have something we can put on a resume.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 05:06 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 21:43 |
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Does he want to work? You can lead a horse to water but can't force him to drink.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 05:25 |
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I was in a similar situation. My group of friends had been friends since middle school/high school and we had all done well in high school. Once college came around most of us did well but there was one who failed out. It was extra frustrating because he had done better then us in high school and went to a better college. We all tried to encourage him to finish school or socialize but he spent most of his time playing MMOs and wouldn't leave his apartment. He hermitted himself so far in that there was nothing we could do. If he's not interested in working I'm not sure what you can do; you can't motivate someone to behave the way you want them to.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 05:42 |
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He probably won't be motivated to do anything until his parents die or kick him out. You really can't help here. It's all up to him.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 05:52 |
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Oral Slither posted:He probably won't be motivated to do anything until his parents die or kick him out. You really can't help here. It's all up to him. What she/he said, I'm watching this go down with a female relative. She's going to continue being a lazy mooch who doesn't even pump her own gas until her parents die. When that unfortunately happens, I have no idea what she is going to do. Her parents are major helicopter parents who have fought with teachers over her grades, paid her credit card bills,paid for college tuition even though all she does is drink and party and flunks her classes (which they then fight with her professors over) and provided for her every need and want. My whole family has washed their hands of it, I come from a very old school German-America family that views working yourself to death as a good thing. Don't stress out about, it's nice that you care but this is something he has to want to change. Right now with his parents providing for him, he has no motivation to change. Keep inviting him to do charity work, if for nothing else then to help other but accept that this is not your problem to fix.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 06:08 |
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Yeah I'm going to have to throw in that it's up to your friend, OP. I'm in a roughly similar situation in that I am 29 and have little to no career prospects, although I have finished college and have worked. But I still live at home. Fortunately i'm working on it, so I haven't given up. It sounds like your friend HAS given up, though. Or is at least complacent. Have you asked him why he turned out this way? For me, it was social anxiety and other issues which made me "hermit myself off", as you say. Is it a psychological issue with him? Is he agoraphobic and/or socially phobic? But like everyone says, it's up to him. He's a grown-rear end man.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 06:16 |
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And thus is born a WalMart Greeter.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 09:32 |
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I read this as "my friend is shirtless".
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 10:23 |
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How about the gold old-fashioned power of envy? You and your friends can casually show off the rewards that come from traditional success in society - you get an education, you get a job, and you get the games. I'm sure that at least some of the role-players in your D&D group has top-of-the-line consoles, the newest games, and a massive 1080p display. Show 'em off! And mention, if possible, that the difference between having all this luxury and not having it is oh-so-simple. It's very easy to indoctrinate people into this money-oriented way of thinking, usually; most of our culture is centered around pressuring you into this mindset so that you can spend your cash on this poo poo. Hell, put on rap music like Kanye West, classic albums by the Notorious B.I.G. and Mobb Deep, or Kendrick Lamar's excellent 2012 album "Good Kid, m.A.A.d. City"... the list goes on. Just surround him with money-driven suggestions. Once someone experiences the rush of earning money, even a small amount to fritter away on some useless garbage just for fun, they're hooked. I've read studies showing that the feeling of earning money has a similar chemical effect on the brain as many addictive, euphoria-inducing drugs.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 11:39 |
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If you can, your friends and you should conspire to get him a job. Preferably it should be something he can easily do and won't absolutely hate. If you are almost 30 and have a decent circle of career people who know the guy, then surely one of you should be able to get him an entry-level position with little effort. Then be sure that his parents know. Make sure that they know that it's not just some vague interview, because that leaves him an excuse window where he can say that he didn't get the job. Say that it's an actual job offer where the paperwork is just a formality. The reasoning here is that you can't help him directly, only the people providing for him can. The best thing that you can do is help provide his parents with a route out of this situation. He might take the job and start to find his way out of this hole. He might not take the job. He might take it and quit immediately. Either outcome is good. If he gets a job just handed to him and slaps it away, then all the excuses he's been giving to his parents will suddenly be revealed as utter bullshit. See, in his mind, he has job security: It's an unnamed career where he gets paid by his parents to hang around all day playing video games. He's not feeling the pressure that the rest of us feel when we're jobless, with rent due, bills due, food to buy, and a career path and social facade that cannot be neglected. To him doing nothing costs nothing. Us doing nothing means losing hundreds or thousands of dollars every month. In a way, he already has a job and it pays for all of his needs. You will not be able to get him to take this other job until you get him "fired." That said, here's another thing to keep in mind: As you get older and all your friends seem to have kids, wives, and houses, and where you have to schedule months in advance just to get your old college chums together for a morning hike, your most interesting, reliable friends will be the ones who were pretty shiftless in their 20s. I'm assuming, through this entire post, that you want to help him because you don't think he's happy but only just treading water. However, if he's not a burden to you and he actually seems to be happy, then who cares? It could be that he's unemployed and living at home because he's in a serious funk and needs help. Or, he could be quite happy that he hasn't a care in the world and gets to spend every hour of every day doing whatever he likes. If it's the latter, let him be. You'll thank me when you're 35 and he's the only guy you know who you can call on a Tuesday night when your wife and kids are coincidentally busy and you realize that you can go to a bar. Oh god I wish more of my friends were unemployed and shiftless. 
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 11:42 |
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It doesn't sound like you're concerned about him at all. It sounds like you think this makes you appear worse. Leave this man to make his own choices. No brainwashing, no making-him-jealous. Basically don't be an arsehole. If you want him to have a job, get him one yourself. Or gently caress off out of it.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 12:54 |
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Noni posted:
I second this. Not everyone needs a career, family, house and all that other stuff that we are told to work hard for so we can be happy as well. At times when I am working 50-60 hours a week even for a good salary, I sometimes envy the people who just work their forty hours or less at a low stress job just for the essentials. I will be getting married with in the next two years and doing the whole house thing. But I remember my early 20s, when I worked at some retail place making just above minimum wage, all my bills were paid and had some extra cash. I drank and played xbox with my friends, then spent my some my of time reading and mathing for fun. You may envy your friend one day. Babatarsky fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 13:12 |
| # ? Feb 18, 2013 13:02 |
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There are so many people who want to work, don't get him a job or a volunteer gig unless he shows some actual motivation. Otherwise you're going to be sticking his fellow employees/volunteers with adult daycare. You say this person is a good friend, could you expand on that? Maybe I'm hardhearted, but I just couldn't find someone like this endearing. Anyone who would be happy as a mollusk gives me the willies, so I'm trying to get a sense of what you see in him. Edited to add, by no means am I conventionally ambitious and life isn't a one size fits all thing. But, but there's a big difference between having a McJob and a lot of fun along the way and living like a passive child in your twenties. I'm older than most of the people here and my generation did a lot of loving around, but we moved out and lived in squalor to do it. I think I would try to have a general conversation with him about the future. Does he ever want to travel or finish a degree? Poison Cake fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 13:38 |
| # ? Feb 18, 2013 13:31 |
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Do you think he's depressed? It's easy to miss and for some people is the mother of all motivation sappers. If he's distraught that he can't find work, but legitimately trying, it's a different (easier) problem. But from your story and hearing it a dozen times before, it sounds much more like depression than just being a gently caress-up.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 17:07 |
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Anyone can get a job at a temp agency. It's just a matter of how bad you want to work. Temp work is just about the shittiest work in existence. But it would give him something to put on a resume. It would also quickly motivate him to start taking life seriously.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 17:08 |
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Infinite Karma posted:Do you think he's depressed? It's easy to miss and for some people is the mother of all motivation sappers. If he's distraught that he can't find work, but legitimately trying, it's a different (easier) problem. But from your story and hearing it a dozen times before, it sounds much more like depression than just being a gently caress-up. He probably is depressed but it might not necessarily manifest itself as being distress over trying and failing to find work. Depression can just as easily end up in the lack of will to even try, or being convinced you'd fail before you even begin.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 17:14 |
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Knockknees posted:He probably is depressed but it might not necessarily manifest itself as being distress over trying and failing to find work. Depression can just as easily end up in the lack of will to even try, or being convinced you'd fail before you even begin. It sounds like the OP thinks his friend is emotionally normal (if immature), but just making poor decisions and fumbling the ball over and over. If this was the case, giving the friend a hand would probably be pretty easy. Since the OP, his other friends, and the guy's parents have all failed at this, it just makes it more likely that it's depression bringing him down.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 17:24 |
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Noni posted:I'm assuming, through this entire post, that you want to help him because you don't think he's happy but only just treading water. However, if he's not a burden to you and he actually seems to be happy, then who cares? It could be that he's unemployed and living at home because he's in a serious funk and needs help. Or, he could be quite happy that he hasn't a care in the world and gets to spend every hour of every day doing whatever he likes. If it's the latter, let him be. You'll thank me when you're 35 and he's the only guy you know who you can call on a Tuesday night when your wife and kids are coincidentally busy and you realize that you can go to a bar. This is some bullshit, right here. It doesn't matter if he's "happy" to be living at home sucking off mom's teat at his age. He needs to man the gently caress up and get a job. Get some skills to make himself employable. Get some real-world skills. He needs to get off his rear end and do something. OP is right to be worried. I knew a guy like this. Mom/Dad kicked the bucket, he fell apart. Enter credit card debt, house turning into a hovel, heat/utilities getting shut off, the whole nine yards. Since he'd been so 'happy' (also in and out of community college) he had no coping mechanisms for when things got rough. Ended up having to work 40 hours a week packing hide-a-beds at a lovely, lovely factory. My excuse for working there at the time was being 17 years old and needing a summer job, bad. edit: talk at him till he realizes he's an idiot
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 17:27 |
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Talk your DM into making the next few D&D sessions about how your adventurers have to grow up and get real jobs.
mr.capps fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2013 around 18:27 |
| # ? Feb 18, 2013 18:25 |
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mr.capps posted:Talk your DM into making the next few D&D sessions about how your adventurers have to grow up and get real jobs. Give all players a +1 bonus on initiative for every real-life resume they've sent out.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 18:40 |
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Nubile Hillock posted:Give all players a +1 bonus on initiative for every real-life resume they've sent out. Have the dwarf get in a nasty job discrimination lawsuit after he gets turn down for a job because of his "short stature."
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 18:47 |
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mr.capps posted:Have the dwarf get in a nasty job discrimination lawsuit after he gets turn down for a job because of his "short stature." Sue the company for not hiring 1.5 dwarfs per regular person to counteract their being 2/3rds the size.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 18:57 |
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Oral Slither posted:He probably won't be motivated to do anything until his parents die or kick him out. You really can't help here. It's all up to him. This, basically. If you actually get him a job, you're probably going to encourage him to believe that the world will provide for him without any effort on his part. And he'd almost certainly be poo poo at the job too. It might be worth talking to his parents, if you know them. They might have more influence over him and ultimately they are the people who are enabling him to be like he is. You'll have to be very tactful though, as he's unlikely to be happy if he thinks you've gone behind his back.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 20:08 |
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Infinite Karma posted:Do you think he's depressed? It's easy to miss and for some people is the mother of all motivation sappers. If he's distraught that he can't find work, but legitimately trying, it's a different (easier) problem. But from your story and hearing it a dozen times before, it sounds much more like depression than just being a gently caress-up. There's a very good chance he's depressed. He hasn't been clinically diagnosed or anything like that, but he's made it very clear he's not happy that he has to depend on his parents. In fact, every time he brings it up (usually unprovoked) we'll have a talk about it, and he'll be motivated for a short period of time. He'll start exercising (he's also unhappy about being overweight) and he'll go back to school. But in a few months time he'll go back to his old ways, staying at home and playing video games. Getting him out of his funk isn't as hard as keeping him out. Poison Cake posted:You say this person is a good friend, could you expand on that? Maybe I'm hardhearted, but I just couldn't find someone like this endearing. Anyone who would be happy as a mollusk gives me the willies, so I'm trying to get a sense of what you see in him. He actually is enjoyable to be around, we just "click" pretty well. He's also helped me out many times when I've needed a hand. Example: When we were 19, my girlfriend at the time was in a city 6 hours away. I was suppose to visit her on her birthday, but my car died. My friend said "gently caress that, you're gettin your dick wet" and took me the whole 6 hour drive just to see my girl. He's been that kind of a friend many times over. He says he wants to eventually get his bachelors degree and move out. I don't know how sincere he is about that, but I'm going to assume he's serious. I just don't know how else to get him started. General Panic posted:It might be worth talking to his parents, if you know them. They might have more influence over him and ultimately they are the people who are enabling him to be like he is. You'll have to be very tactful though, as he's unlikely to be happy if he thinks you've gone behind his back. Yeah, one thing I'm worried about is my intentions will be misunderstood or improperly conveyed, that I might unintentionally show disrespect. Our parents immigrated from the same country so I can speak their language, but I'm not fluent. It's definitely worth a try, though. mr.capps posted:Talk your DM into making the next few D&D sessions about how your adventurers have to grow up and get real jobs. But...I am the DM, and I've put a lot of thought into our next campaign.  I want to thank everyone who replied. It's not something that my friends bring up often and I actually haven't spoken to him about this since last August. He was going to school, but the cycle is repeating and I'm worrying again. I'd like to talk to him about it again, but I don't know what would be different from the last times we spoke.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 22:52 |
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What does he want to do with his Bachelors? Maybe he can get an Associates and then go to the bachelor's from there. That way he's studying the subject he actually wants to pursue instead of taking general studies courses. He can get certified in a lot of interesting poo poo (Accounting, Welding, Lab tech, surgical tech, Paralegal, Paramedic, Nursing) in 2 years through the community college, start making good money, move out, and then be a much stronger candidate for a 4 year university when he wants to get his bachelors. It can feel kind of pointless going for a 4 year degree if you don't have any idea in place because you can get entry level office work without one, which is why - if none of those 2 year job training or 1 year certifications appeal to him - he should just try some temp agencies to get some experience under his belt and figure out what kind of work he does or doesn't like. It sounds like he doesn't realize there are other options available to him.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 23:04 |
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Maybe get him involved in a hobby. An outdoorsy hobby. Cycling, fishing, longboarding canoeing, camping...anything that 'clicks' with him. It might be a good catalyst for him to find a job if he realizes he can't do these things without income. Plus it's a great way to get him into shape without forcing a gym regimen onto him.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 23:10 |
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I think he should be a blues musician, that way when things go south and he has no job or income it will help his music career.
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| # ? Feb 18, 2013 23:46 |
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You can't change someone. If he's in a bad spot that is in his power to change, he clearly likes it that way. All you can do is offer support and tell him if he needs anything you're there for him. If he complains, just tell him that it sucks and change the subject. Telling people to do something they're probably smart enough to know already might just make them more miserable.
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 01:56 |
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Hehe I read it as 'shitless'. For content: has he tried to get a job and failed, or never tried? And does he do constructive things with his time, or play WoW all day?
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 03:31 |
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Teach him how to use the clutch.
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 03:50 |
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BigbyWolffe posted:I don't want to seem too harsh or that I'm trying to hold my success over him, but he doesn't seem motivated to do any better for himself. He still lives at home and his parents provide everything for him. I've recommended that he do volunteer work and have even invited him to do volunteer work with me. There are a few soup kitchens in our area and local animal shelters accept volunteers to walk dogs. At his college, there are clubs that clean up litter in the park every weekend. Basically, there are a myriad of things he could volunteer for that require no experience. I found your problem here. When your friend has to choose between playing video games at home and providing food to smelly homeless people and walking ugly unwanted pets in his mind then he will have no motivation to improve himself even if volunteer work will help him gain the necessary experience for future employment. Have you ever played todays video games? They are very advanced and almost as addicting as drugs. If you still feel you want to help your friend but can't because the parents are interfering with his personal development by enabling his lazy habits then perhaps you and your buddies could pay a little visit to his house in the middle of the night and pour gasoline all over the property then light it on fire. That should teach him to realize life is too short and precious to waste on video games.
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 03:58 |
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BigbyWolffe posted:What I'm asking is, how do I get him a job or enough experience to get a job? Maybe even, how do I motivate him to pursue more than playing video games at home? He's going on 28, and has absolutely no work experience. All of us in the group have suggested many things to him, but we're all busy with work/grad school/wives/families to hold his hand and make sure he does them. He's a very smart person and a good friend, and we all can provide opportunities for him. But first, he needs to have something we can put on a resume. Nothing. It's not your job to get him a job. You are only obligated to hold his hand if he asks for it and makes a good faith effort to follow through. It sounds like there are a lot of opportunities to do things, so ask yourself: Why is he not doing them? Because it's certainly not that he needs you guys to hunt something down for him. There are deeper personality problems at play here. For reference, I recently learned this the very hard way by offering someone help getting out of their lovely life after they asked for my help and said they were fed up with it. It blew up in my face pretty hard. I had to haul rear end finding him an easy food retail job that he eventually got fired from for smoking too much weed. There were bouts of him sitting on my couch getting high and playing Borderlands 2 for weeks at a time, doing gently caress-nothing as a backup plan until he finally ran back to his safe and miserable old life with his tail between his legs. Misery is comfortable. It's not fun, but for some personality types, when compared to facing the challenge of getting your life back on track, it's a bed of roses. He has video games, a roof over his head, and food in the fridge. His ennui is not so overpowering that he feels it outweighs his existing creature comforts. Some people, like my friend and yours, are afraid of trying and failing when they're already comfortable. They also tend to hang around people who share their lovely tendencies so they don't feel so bad by comparison. Which is why, to answer your question, the best way to do this kind of thing is lead by example and offer some assistance, but only when they show the initiative to go for it first. I guarantee you that if you bust your rear end to get him a job, he will gently caress it up because he didn't do anything to earn it in the first place. Again, you don't make it sound like life hosed him over when it comes to opportunities (ethnic background, gender, sexual orientation, lovely childhood, poverty, etc). It sounds awful and bootstrappy, but this is not your job, or even your obligation. I know you like him and he's done good things for you, but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and they manifest differently. This is his. Lead by example and hope he wakes up one day. Squirrel Burger fucked around with this message at Feb 19, 2013 around 06:14 |
| # ? Feb 19, 2013 06:03 |
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BigbyWolffe posted:I have a group of friends that I play D&D with weekly. Although we started our weekly D&D sessions about 3 years ago, we've all been friends since sophomore year of high school. We're all turning 27/28 years old this year. Everyone in the group is well on their way working toward a career and is a professional in some capacity. Everyone, except one. In fact, he's been in and out of community college for 9 years and has never had a job in his life. Be a good example and have high standards for the people you keep close to you. If he doesn't meet that standard, then distance yourself. If you don't mind him being a loser, then fine, hang out with him. But you're not going to make him change.
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 06:11 |
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I mentioned this in Pollyana's freaking out thread, but have you suggested to your friend freelance online writing? There's websites like Textbroker that he can join, and they'll pay him to write things, like product descriptions and short essays. He can make up to 20 bucks an hour if he really goes at it and treats it like a day job. That's tough to do, but he can still make some decent money, even pay a bill or two and help out with groceries and gas. You can make enough to count as self-employed, and he can describe himself as a freelance writer, which sounds a fuckload better on a resume than "unemployed". It's not regular employment, but it's something other than "jack loving poo poo".
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 06:11 |
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You can't get your friend to open his third eye, you can only show him the path. He has to walk it.
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 07:38 |
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Blue Star posted:I mentioned this in Pollyana's freaking out thread, but have you suggested to your friend freelance online writing? There's websites like Textbroker that he can join, and they'll pay him to write things, like product descriptions and short essays. He can make up to 20 bucks an hour if he really goes at it and treats it like a day job. That's tough to do, but he can still make some decent money, even pay a bill or two and help out with groceries and gas. You can make enough to count as self-employed, and he can describe himself as a freelance writer, which sounds a fuckload better on a resume than "unemployed". It's not regular employment, but it's something other than "jack loving poo poo". The problem with Textbroker is you don't get attribution and they don't do verification, so it's completely unverifiable.
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 07:42 |
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Do you all ever socialize outside of D&D? I don't think mixing up his social environment would hurt. You could host a barbecue or a movie afternoon pretty easily. Edited to add, you would know best how to do this, but have the social occasion be different enough to push his comfort zone a bit, but not so different he won't come. Maybe make it a little more formal or invite a slightly different mix of people. Or mix up the D&D with a general interest card game or something like Settlers of Cataan and invite spouses/girlfriends. Anything to nudge at his rut. Poison Cake fucked around with this message at Feb 19, 2013 around 14:59 |
| # ? Feb 19, 2013 14:51 |
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Most of the other posts sum it up: YOU aren't going to convince your friend to do something HE doesn't want to do. No matter how hard you try, no matter how you word it, it is ultimately up to him. My brother is the same way in a sense - he is 38, single, and still lives at home with mom and dad. He's a deputy sheriff so at least has a career, but absolutely no interest in moving out on his own, girlfriend, kids, etc. He was in a rut in his late twenties and now that rut is his comfort zone/life. As long as your friend still has hopes of getting his degree, career, moving out, etc just be supportive and encouraging and keep that goal in his mind. If he ever settles into his life being the way it is now - game over. It'll take a hell of a lot more for him to move forward once that happens.
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| # ? Feb 19, 2013 16:32 |
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chippy posted:I read this as "my friend is shirtless". I was going to say that the solution is pretty clear. You just give the guy a shirt. Having said that, maybe that's the solution here after all.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 04:49 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 21:43 |
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I think the problem is on your end OP. I think you're bored and miserable with your farty desk job and 2.5 kids and minivan in the suburbs, and you want to project that misery onto a guy who's living a fun, carefree existence. Leave him alone.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 19:08 |
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