Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«65 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Twee as Fuck
Nov 13, 2012

by XyloJW


Kickstarter continues over Paypal until the end of April to reach the final stretch goal of $4,500,000!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-numenera/posts

We more than made it! $4,188,927with over 70k backers!, as well as more than $180,000 over paypal for a total of $4,368,927!

I will be making a massive overhaul of the OP in the near future





Torment: Tides of Nemura is a sequel spiritual successor to cult classic Planescape: Torment by inXile Entertainment, currently developing Wasteland 2. It's a single-player isometric RPG, where you will control a single character with optional NPC followers, the story will be mostly driven through dialogue, much like PS:T. It is another crowd-funded game, as inXile seem to have decided to rely fully on kickstarters in the future, in order to bring gamers exactly the type of games they desire. It'll be available on PC, Mac and Linux as well, completely DRM-free on all platforms.

Here is a link for theofficial Torment community



F.A.Q.


What the heck is Planescape: Torment, and why should I care about this?

Planescape: Torment is a 1999 RPG based on Advanced Dungeons & Dragons rules, developed by the defunct Black Isles Studio. They were behind such games as Fallout 2, Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 2. Fun trivia, that's where rope kid also started his career!

PS:T was considered widely as the best RPG that came out that year, and has gained a large cult following since then. It's available on GOG for and, if you're a fan of RPGs and the type of humor/dickishness that would fit in the Fallout 1&2 universe, you should get it now. It's apparently going to available on Steam in the near future.

You should go and play the game, there are plenty of information about the game out there, or it can be discussed in the 'Old RPG' thread.


What do we know about the story so far?



Here's the blurb they posted:

quote:

Torment: Tides of Numenera™ continues the thematic legacy of the critically acclaimed Planescape: Torment™. Set in Monte Cook's new tabletop role-playing world, Numenera™, the newest Torment asks: What does one life matter?

Numenera's Ninth World is a fantastic vision of a world in which massive civilizations have risen and fallen - disappeared, transcended, overwhelmed, or destroyed - and left their cities, monuments, and artifacts behind. As each rose and fell, their achievements became part of the accumulated detritus of eons... but much of it did not decay. And now this assortment of ancient power is there for the taking, ever-present, underfoot. The humans of the Ninth World take and use what they can. They call these wonders (and horrors) the numenera.

One of these humans discovers a way to use the numenera to grow strong, to cheat death, to skip across the face of centuries in a succession of bodies. But he discovers an unexpected side effect: You.

Torment™ is a game of complex and nuanced morality, deep and reactive choice and consequence, and immersion into a new and strange vision. You will chart a course through bizarre dimensions, across the face of a vastly different world. You will earn companions along the way, and discover their value - perhaps through their strengths, perhaps more literally by selling them. Throughout it all, you will choose a path that will lead inexorably to an ending that stems naturally from your actions, facing adversaries who harness powers beyond your comprehension, and who will ultimately force you to face yourself and answer the question: What does one life matter?

More kickstarter details:

quote:

What does one life matter? Do our lives matter at all, or are they meaningless? What legacy do we leave behind? These are age-old questions, and they’re not easily answered—especially in a setting like Numenera’s Ninth World, where the inhabitants wander through the rubble of forgotten ancients who must have felt that their lives mattered, too.

That’s our primary theme: What does one life matter? We're going to help you tell a story, and in the end you’ll have explored your answer to this question. You might decide that one life is the most important thing in the world, if it’s the right life. You might decide that a life means nothing, though Life itself has meaning. You might decide that Life has no value at all. We won’t force you toward a specific answer in your search. But we will force you to think.

Torment’s second theme also rises naturally from Numenera's setting: abandonment. Whether the abandonment of place, of life, of children, or of will, we'll explore what abandonment really means and how it affects the unfortunates in its wake. You can help those you encounter (including your companions) make that choice, and you’ll also make it for yourself. That choice will be part of your legacy.

And last, we come to mystery. You enter the game as you enter the world: newborn and ignorant, and you must find your truths, the answers that fit your journey best. Those around you might help you, hinder you, or hurt you. But why? What drives them? What drives you? It is this search for meaning that leads you into the deeper questions, and you’ll uncover even stranger mysteries as you delve into the heart of your being.




What about the combat system? The game mechanics?

Brian Fargo discussed this recently in two different interviews

quote:

Q: Real/pause time or turn-based?
Producer Kevin Saunders: “The details of combat are still an open question, but our initial leaning is that real-time with pause will provide the better experience for the game. Whichever direction we ultimately take it, we’ll be giving combat considerable attention – we are aware that one of the criticisms of PST (including from Avellone) was its combat and we want to improve upon that aspect. The Numenera combat system provides a stronger starting place for a cRPG than AD&D 2nd Edition did and we’ll prototype early so that we have ample time to iterate over the course of the project. We are also working on ways to weave narrative elements into the combat system such that the gameplay and story complement each other. But I should mention that even while enhancing combat, we will stay true to PST by making it so players can almost completely avoid battles based upon their choices.”

quote:

You talked about perhaps using turn-based combat instead of real-time with pause: is that wise? Surely the fans would wage war against you?

We’ll discuss further in the future, but, briefly, by key elements, we mean aspects like: ensuring that character customization choices influence combat, meaningful tactical decisions, synergy with the narrative and creative elements, accentuating and further developing the companions, etc.

Because we can craft the game we are promising regardless of this specific decision, it is exactly the type of question for which we’d involve our backers.

We would outline what we will attempt to achieve through combat, and how it is interwoven with the narrative and overall gameplay, present the primary options, and let our backers weigh in – confident that we can satisfy our design goals for this game while taking their preferences into account.

We’ve been taking this approach with Wasteland 2 and have found backer input to be invaluable in such design decisions.”

Numenera? What the gently caress is Numenera? Why didn't they stick with D&D?

Numenera is the new table-top role-playing game project of Monte Cooke, known for his work on Dungeons & Dragons. It is "set a billion years in the future in a science fantasy and post-apocalyptic setting with streamlined rules that prioritize the story, the action, and the wild ideas." It's an incredible kickstarter success story, with a goal of $20,000 and a final total of $517,255 pledged.

Since another company holds the rights for the Planescape universe, it would have been impossible to use the same setting, therefore it's only a 'spiritual successor', not a sequel, and the game rules will follow Numenera and not D&D.


So if they couldn't use the Planescape setting, how is it still a Torment game?

quote:

Given no Planescape and presumably none of the PST characters, what makes a Torment game a Torment game to your mind?

Fargo: We know it hasn’t been done often in the game industry, but we’re envisioning Torment as a thematic franchise with certain themes that can expand over different settings and stories. We will focus on the same things that made people appreciate PST so much: overturning RPG tropes; a fantastic, unconventional setting; memorable companions; deep thematic exploration of the human condition; heavy reactivity (i.e., choice and consequences); an intensely personal (rather than epic) story.

Q: How much are you thinking of working in overt links to/echoes of PST as opposed to broader thematic commonality? And what are the legal restrictions there – for instance, if you wanted to include a smartass talking skull with a dark secret, could you include a smartass talking skull with a dark secret?

Fargo: Rather than overt links, we are trying to recapture the feeling that players experienced through PST –both while playing it and after having completed a playthrough. We will remain true to the essence of PST, but we’ll also be looking for ways to improve the areas in which PST could have been even better. Fortunately, besides our personal experiences, we have years of feedback from other passionate PST fans to draw upon. We certainly would not infringe on any copyrights but with that said there are very few elements in RPGs that can be protected. There are several games with talking skull heads, for example, if we wanted to incorporate things of that nature.

quote:

Just how similar – and in what ways will it be – is this new Torment game be to PlaneScape Torment? How do you pick out what is important?

We’ve had more than a decade to absorb the lessons and experiences of the players and creators of the game, and we think the important part of PlaneScape Torment was the philosophical, intellectual, and emotional journey taken by the Nameless One and his companions.

His story is complete, but PlaneScape Torment’s thematic elements are timeless. We intend to create an experience that evokes similar feelings, with deep, meaningful choices, clear reactivity, a rich and personal story, and interesting companions.



In the end, how will T:ToN and PS:T be similar?

They took these four themes from PS:T to build T:ToN upon:

- A Deep, Thematically Satisfying Story: The philosophical underpinnings of Torment drive the game, both mechanically and narratively. Your words, choices, and actions will be your primary weapons.

- A World Unlike Any Other: The game has a fantastic, original setting, with awe-inspiring painterly visuals, imaginative locations, truly offbeat items, and massive feats of magic. In Numenera, however, "magic" is actually something surprisingly different.

- A Rich, Personal Narrative: The story is thoughtful and character-driven—epic in feel but a deeply personal narrative, with nontraditional characters and companions who have their own motivations and desires that drive them throughout the game.

- Reactivity, Choice, and Real Consequences: The game emphasizes replayability and reactivity, and your choices will make a real difference. You can play the game with a different approach and discover entirely new pathways. Most important, we won't tell you how to play. The best ending is the one you choose, flowing naturally from your actions throughout the game.


There will not really be any direct story or setting connection between the two games however. There will be few elements that will be reminiscent of the first game. They are focused on creating a completely new and surprising experience, and not necessarily focus too much on the past.


Complaints


Who the gently caress are inXile?! Chris Avellone and Black Isle are those who made PT:S great, how can it not be poo poo without him or the original team involved?

Good news, Chris Avellone was involved. Not as he was involved with Wasteland 2, but he is also involved with T:ToN. He has given Brian Fargo his blessing his well, and he personally hand-picked and sent a team over at inXile for that project, while inXile recruited some on their own as well.

These people are:

Colin McComb - primary developer of the Planescape campaign setting for TSR, one of the main designers of the original Torment. Serves as creative lead for the new game and driving the story vision for the game.

Kevin Saunders - project director who worked with Chris Avellone at Obsidian for 5 years

Adam Heine - scripter for PS:T, one of the designers at Black Isle.

Dana Knutson - concept artist of the original Planescape campaign setting

Ray Vallese - editor and writer, part of the Planescape team at TSR.

Mark Morgan - composed the soundtrack to PS:T

Aaron Meyers - artist for PS:T



Yeah, well, whatever. They can't be working on both Wasteland 2 and this at the same time without creating a mess in either game

Right now, the people who are working on T:ToN are done with their involvement in Wasteland 2. They are mostly the writers, concept artists and such. The game is in planning and pre-production phase where they are concerned with the big picture while the overwhelming majority of the staff are putting the finishing touches on Wasteland 2. As the project nears its conclusion, more and more people will move over to Torment when they are no longer needed.


How can they expect us to back them with another kickstarter?! We haven't even played Wasteland 2 yet!

They realize this. That's why right now they are only asking people their opinion on how to shape the kickstarter, and asking fans what they'd want to see in the game. Here's what Brian Fargo had to say about this:

quote:

Q: You’ve already said you’ll be looking to use Kickstarter again, but is there a risk that the crowdfunding community will be a little more suspicious a second time around?

A: I think that people should be rightly wary of us or anyone using Kickstarter so I totally get any suspicion. My greatest successes have come from building and fostering talented teams.

Keeping my team together and having an early start on pre-production is how I always kept the consistency at Interplay. This requires funding the game earlier, which of course rubs up against someone who might want us to wait until Wasteland 2 is complete and they have experienced how great it is.

But regardless of my thoughts on timing we need to show more on Wasteland 2 before it makes sense to talk about the timing of a Torment Kickstarter.

Twee as Fuck fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2013 around 19:44

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Twee as Fuck
Nov 13, 2012

by XyloJW




Link to the kickstarter

Full description of all the rewards

Digital Tiers (from the official Kickstarter)


Physical Tiers (same)



Concept Art:

Twee as Fuck fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2013 around 16:56

voltron lion force
Sep 15, 2010



I'm scared for this.

YOURFRIEND
Feb 3, 2009

You're an asshole, Mr. Grinch
You really are a cunt
You're as cuddly as a cockring
and charming being a shitheel

FUCK YOURFRIEND!


Is it weird that I don't trust InExile to make this game at all? Like they're making Wasteland 2 which I could not care less about and has yet to be seen whether it's even going to be a decent game and before that they made what? Cell phone games? I just don't see them making anything approaching a worthy Planescape successor. I don't understand why they're kickstartering another project when their first isn't even done, either.

e: Oh it's spelled "inXile". Very 90s.

Reiz
Sep 7, 2006



I don't know. If "What does one life matter?" is this game's version of "What can change the nature of a man?", I can't see it being anywhere near as good as PS:T. It seems like a lovely cliche plot point that has one of two uninteresting answers.

Wasteland 2 is a joint project with Obsidian, right? Doesn't the writer for PS:T work at Obsidian? I hope they're getting him in on this too.

Ddraig
Sep 5, 2005

Sits with a full house

Planescape is a really cool setting that was mostly neglected, but I really, really hope this isn't a continuation of The Nameless One's story (the Torment part seems to imply this is so, though) because that's a story that doesn't really need to be told. PS:T wrapped it up perfectly.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Could you imagine the step?
It's genius!


Ddraig posted:

Planescape is a really cool setting that was mostly neglected, but I really, really hope this isn't a continuation of The Nameless One's story (the Torment part seems to imply this is so, though) because that's a story that doesn't really need to be told. PS:T wrapped it up perfectly.

It's set in a completely different universe. It's a spiritual sequel only, so no worries there.

...What does worry me is that that the backer exclusive game content is doing so well on their voting thingy. It's just preorder bonuses in another guise, and it screws over people who for whatever reason couldn't get into the kickstarter campaign. Especially when they're talking about whole areas or companions.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

ahh..what!? what?!
huh?!

I'm pretty dang skeptical about this. Seems like a lot to bite off on top of Wasteland 2, and Monte Cook isn't a big draw for me either. I guess the setting could be interesting if it's playing up a "Book of the New Sun"/"Dying Earth" vibe. Planescape just never struck me as one of those games that needed a sequel of any kind, and positioning this as a spiritual successor seems more likely to be about canny marketing than anything else.

Fuligin fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2013 around 18:55

Woebin
Feb 6, 2006



YOURFRIEND posted:

Is it weird that I don't trust InExile to make this game at all? Like they're making Wasteland 2 which I could not care less about and has yet to be seen whether it's even going to be a decent game and before that they made what? Cell phone games? I just don't see them making anything approaching a worthy Planescape successor. I don't understand why they're kickstartering another project when their first isn't even done, either.

e: Oh it's spelled "inXile". Very 90s.
It's not weird, and a lot of people expressed the same worry about Wasteland 2. Many had their worries alleviated by the first gameplay video, released recently and viewable here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dH6AIlIrko

That said, I imagine Torment will be heavier on the writing than Wasteland 2, and I think the writing in the gameplay video for WL2 is its weakest part. There's nothing to say that won't be improved before release though, it's still early in development.

Reiz posted:

Wasteland 2 is a joint project with Obsidian, right? Doesn't the writer for PS:T work at Obsidian? I hope they're getting him in on this too.
You're thinking of Chris Avellone, who's helping a bit with WL2 although the rest of Obsidian isn't involved AFAIK. I'd be surprised if he isn't at least asked to contribute a bit to this, too.



Personally I haven't actually played through the original PS:T yet, although I have a save just outside the morgue that I ought to continue on. Just haven't felt up to getting into something as involved as that recently, but I should be able to get through it before this comes out.

E: Fixed the video link.

Woebin fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2013 around 19:07

Zombies' Downfall
Aug 20, 2005

That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives.


Fuligin posted:

I'm pretty dang skeptical about this. Seems like a lot to bite off on top of Wasteland 2, and Monte Cook isn't a big draw for me either.

Monte Cook isn't a great game designer, but if the Beyond Countless Doorways book he did for Sword & Sorcery is any indication, he's still got it in him to design interesting worlds and spaces to explore and I'm sure that'll be his role in the game. I'm less certain about the developers. "Calling dibs" on both Wasteland 2 and Torment 2 without having finished a single game of that magnitude feels a lot like they just have a business plan of snatching up a shitload of valuable properties via Kickstarter and churning out crap at a pure profit or something rather than being genuinely interested in creating these games. A worthy Torment 2 would be a tall order for Obsidian. It'd be a tall order if they did have the AD&D license, which would mean they wouldn't have to build both a cosmology and a game from the ground up.

Zombies' Downfall fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2013 around 18:58

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000



I wish them well with it.

I have to say, though, that until I can determine the quality of their Wasteland 2 project (like, me actually playing and then enjoying it) I won't be giving them more money for their next game, be it pre-order or "pledge" donation or whatever.

inExile basically got a pre-order free pass from me for W2, for various reasons, but they haven't actually done anything noteworthy to earn another.

staplegun
Sep 21, 2003



Unless they're picking up talent from people that worked on the original, there's no reason for me to support this before it's released. Although the Planescape setting is pretty rad by itself, the stellar writing is what made that game.

Great Rumbler
Jan 30, 2013

For I am a dog, you see.


I actually liked Hunted: The Demon's Forge, though it's hardly high-art. I am super-excited for Torment 2, though, especially after seeing that first gameplay video of Wasteland 2.

YOURFRIEND posted:

Like they're making Wasteland 2 which I could not care less about and has yet to be seen whether it's even going to be a decent game and before that they made what? Cell phone games?

Hunted: The Demon's Forge
The Bard's Tale

quote:

I don't understand why they're kickstartering another project when their first isn't even done, either.

I think their plan is being preproduction on Torment 2 with a small team. Then once Wasteland 2 is finished, they can segue right into full development without having to wait months or worry about hiring the Wasteland 2 team back. From their perspective, at least, it makes a lot of sense.

Reiz
Sep 7, 2006



The wasteland 2 gameplay video (I had to youtube search it, the posted link was broken) actually looks pretty good, to me. I was too young for wasteland 1, I've never seen it played or read the manual and have no nostalgia whatsoever, but the gameplay looks solid enough that I'll probably buy it when it comes out.

Torment 2 will probably have pretty solid gameplay, in fact it's almost guaranteed to be better than Torment 1 which honestly was a chore to play through while doing anything other than exploring and reading dialogue. I just don't know if I trust inXile's writers to do a good enough job with it because the dialogue/story in Torment 1 is really really good.

I really don't think "What is one life worth" is a great way to start a story, either, but it's hard to say without them having released any more information. I hope they do something interesting with it, I'll probably be buying Torment 2 regardless, I just really don't want it to suck. I do like the idea of it being set in a far future post apocalyptic setting though. I don't particularly want to revisit any place in Torment 1 because it feels like anything important that was going to happen there already did, if that makes any sense.

Alkanos
Jul 19, 2009

Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Fht-YAWN

Welp, if they're gearing up the PR train it looks like inexile is planning on launching the kickstarter before they finish Wasteland. If things go well, it'll fail and they'll hold off til they have a released product to brag about. If things go badly (which is more likely), it'll barely scrape by on the kickstarter. That'll leave them with a barebones budget to work with, and it'll end up a shadow of PS:T.

Drifter posted:

I wish them well with it.

I have to say, though, that until I can determine the quality of their Wasteland 2 project (like, me actually playing and then enjoying it) I won't be giving them more money for their next game, be it pre-order or "pledge" donation or whatever.

inExile basically got a pre-order free pass from me for W2, for various reasons, but they haven't actually done anything noteworthy to earn another.

This is exactly what's going to screw them over if they decide to launch this early.

voltron lion force
Sep 15, 2010



staplegun posted:

Unless they're picking up talent from people that worked on the original, there's no reason for me to support this before it's released. Although the Planescape setting is pretty rad by itself, the stellar writing is what made that game.

And considering this isn't the Planescape setting, well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm reminded of a post that I regrettably can't find now but it went something like: "inXile is going to single handedly revive and then kill this genre all over again."

Bleusilences
Jun 23, 2004

Be careful for what you wish for.


i pledge for wasteland 2, but this is WAY to early to do another kick starter. I really need to check if they can deliver the goods.It make business sense and I wish them luck but if wasteland is a disaster at least I won't bet twice on a dead horse.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

"I hide in your house all the time."

See you soon!


Twee as gently caress posted:

Since another company holds the rights for the Planescape universe, it would have been impossible to use the same setting, therefore it's only a 'spiritual successor', not a sequel, and the game rules will follow Numenera and not D&D.

Actually, Planescape essentially no longer exists. Wizards of the Coast merged it with Forgotten Realms, which tore out most of its uniqueness.

rj54x
Sep 16, 2007


Ddraig posted:

Planescape is a really cool setting that was mostly neglected, but I really, really hope this isn't a continuation of The Nameless One's story (the Torment part seems to imply this is so, though) because that's a story that doesn't really need to be told. PS:T wrapped it up perfectly.

Given the licensing situation, I don't think they could continue that story even if they wanted to.

edit: beaten by a mile.

Fergus Mac Roich
Nov 5, 2008



Wizards of the Coast says they would have licensed Planescape:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...lanescape-Games

But gently caress that, I wouldn't want another Planescape game anyway. I want to see what this Numenera stuff is about. I am kind of wary since Wasteland 2 isn't even out though and I probably won't donate to the kickstarter unless they start it after I've had a chance to play Wasteland.

Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland.

Read paragraph 65.


1) I have no idea why "what does one life matter?" is a bad catchphrase for the game. I mean, I suppose you can argue that every non-party-based CRPG has this question at its core, but I hope it will be more of the "It's a Wonderful Life"-style asking of that question as opposed to "oh, huh, a single hero saved the day, how about that?"

2) Even I do not want this to be Kickstartered soon, despite being 100% confident that InXile is going to make(/is already making) an amazing game in Wasteland 2. Really I think Wasteland 2 needs to be in beta/have some big-name previews to allay all of the skeptics' fears before they do this.

3) But I also think they will do well with the Kickstarter even despite #2, so.

4)

Reiz
Sep 7, 2006



It's mostly that I can only see two answers for it. You either get like "a lot" or "not a lot". I feel like it's already happened a bunch in popular media with things like hostage situations or dealing with the idea of sacrificing a life for the greater good.

I think unless you do something really clever with it or brush it to the sidelines, you end up arbitrarily limiting the scope of your story.

I'm not saying it's a horrible idea, or that the story is guaranteed to be poo poo because of it, it just doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me when compared to "What can change the nature of a man?" which is a much more open ended question and ended up being a huge part of Torment 1's story without ever feeling like it was just something an NPC said at the start of the game and then was ignored during a series of fetch quests and boar rear end collecting until 30 minutes before the end of the game.

CrookedB
Jun 27, 2011

Stupid newbee

Personally I'm excited about this. Of course I can't tell if it's going to be anywhere near as good as PS:T, but I'm willing to give Brian Fargo, Monte Cook and co. a chance. If it's the closest we can get to PS:T 2, I'll take it.

Also Monte Cook's Numenera looks like a great setting. I'm willing to settle on "a decent to good CRPG in the Numenera setting," even. How often do we get cRPGs based on P&P RPGs these days?

staplegun posted:

Unless they're picking up talent from people that worked on the original, there's no reason for me to support this before it's released. Although the Planescape setting is pretty rad by itself, the stellar writing is what made that game.

Colin McComb, one of the original pen and paper Planescape writers and Chris Avellone's second on PS:T, is on the team.

There's also some ex-Obsidian talent, notably Kevin Saunders, the project lead on Mask of the Betrayer (which is the closest Obsidian got to PS:T, incidentally).

Of course my wet dream would be for Chris Avellone and George Ziets (lead writer on Mask of the Betrayer) to join the project. That would be the perfect Torment 2 team.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

Quarex posted:

2) Even I do not want this to be Kickstartered soon, despite being 100% confident that InXile is going to make(/is already making) an amazing game in Wasteland 2. Really I think Wasteland 2 needs to be in beta/have some big-name previews to allay all of the skeptics' fears before they do this.

I really hope someone is hammering this home to Fargo. If financially they have to fire it off before W2 goes live I hope it's really close to release. Ideally they'd just run on their own money for a couple months and start the kickstarter after W2 has been out a month or so and has good reviews.

Alkanos
Jul 19, 2009

Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Fht-YAWN

Quarex posted:

2) Even I do not want this to be Kickstartered soon, despite being 100% confident that InXile is going to make(/is already making) an amazing game in Wasteland 2. Really I think Wasteland 2 needs to be in beta/have some big-name previews to allay all of the skeptics' fears before they do this.

3) But I also think they will do well with the Kickstarter even despite #2, so.

Totally agree with your #2, but #3 is really unlikely. I really don't want them to go into this expecting to reprise the WL2 kickstarter. People are going to be a lot more guarded with their wallets to a company returning to kickstarter without releasing anything yet but a video.

To be honest, I think that if they got the budget they want this could be a great game. The problem is that if they kickstart now, they may end up with barely enough to make anything, let alone the game they want.

Fergus Mac Roich
Nov 5, 2008



CrookedB posted:

Also Monte Cook's Numenera looks like a great setting. I'm willing to settle on "a decent to good CRPG in the Numenera setting," even. How often do we get cRPGs based on P&P RPGs these days?

There's Drakensang and I guess they're going to make a Pathfinder MMO. But yeah other than that it's not common.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000



What I don't really understand - I accept my credibility loss here, I suppose - is the use of one tabletop rule set over another as it translates into a game. I totally understand the rule sets in honest to god P&P, because you have to do all that poo poo by hand, but it's all automated and behind the scenes in a video game, right?

Is it just the story setting, or the rights to use specific nomenclature? I've never understood game developers talking about finding D&D restrictive or whatever, because I've never really noticed a big difference in play style. A level-up in XCOM is similar to a level up in Baldur's Gate 2 is similar to Arcanum is similar to Dragon Age is similar to Dishonored and Alpha Protocol and Vampire: The Masquerade. We all just choose poo poo and it does it when we click on it. It seems to me that more important than the setting is the quality of the story and plot and interactivity within it all.

Beyond the whole 50k years into the future but also conveniently post-apocalyptic setting (just rustlin' jimmies), what actual video game gameplay differences would this game allow or could we expect it to have?

It interests me.

JebanyPedal
Feb 17, 2011

Pan American nightmare
Ten thousand feet fun-fair
Convinced that I don't care
It's safe as houses I swear
I was just sitting musing
The virtues of cruising
When altitude dropping
My ears started popping
One more red nightmare


Ugh, yet another attempt to show love for "oldschool cRPG fans" that just ends up repeating the same mistakes that were made 20 years ago. The Wasteland 2 video looked abjectly awful, with its tedious, shallow, and stagnant combat.
I played the entire Ultima series, I played the entire Fallout series, I played the majority of the AD&D games and went through most of the M&M and Wizardry series, I used to breathe cRPGs daily. Now I don't give a poo poo, I don't want to play them anymore because the style of play is stagnant, repetitive, tedious, shallow, irritating, and to put it simply, just mechanically stupid.

They were enjoyable in a time when nearly everything on the PC was an ambitious, half-way broken game, but now it's just really uninteresting to play a game created by a team that supposedly were designing it for people "JUST LIKE YOU," without realizing that you probably played those games to death back in the day and playing another one is just going to be like eating the old porridge from last week that tasted good back when it was warm and fresh, but now is just a coagulated slop.

Great Rumbler
Jan 30, 2013

For I am a dog, you see.


I don't think inXile has enough personnel to support full development of another major RPG, so I don't think they're actually going to jump right into another Kickstarter within the next few days/weeks. This seems like feelers more than anything else, gauging what people think about and how they want it setup for reference later in the year. And it would make sense to do it that way.

Most of the company is currently tied up on Wasteland 2, except for the preproduction guys who have already been shipped over to Torment 2. But Wasteland 2 should start winding down towards the end of the year, meaning that inXile is going to need a lot of on-hand cash to keep them around. Hence the need for another Kickstarter. Waiting for profits from Wasteland 2 might mean firing some people and then trying to hire them back a few months later, which doesn't like a great way to do things.

Having said that, if they launched a Torment 2 Kickstarter tomorrow, I'd back it.

Waroduce
Aug 5, 2008

'S up fags?


I'm really excited that PS:T is getting a sequal, but I'm just a little doubtful that these guys will be able to deliver the game in a way that we want to see it.

Zombies' Downfall
Aug 20, 2005

That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives.


Drifter posted:

Is it just the story setting, or the rights to use specific nomenclature? I've never understood game developers talking about finding D&D restrictive or whatever, because I've never really noticed a big difference in play style. A level-up in XCOM is similar to a level up in Baldur's Gate 2 is similar to Arcanum is similar to Dragon Age is similar to Dishonored and Alpha Protocol and Vampire: The Masquerade. We all just choose poo poo and it does it when we click on it. It seems to me that more important than the setting is the quality of the story and plot and interactivity within it all.

There are some fundamental differences in how systems work, for example whether "chance to hit" is based on a complex formula or is a fixed 90% chance for every character all the time and whether or not people have a chance to actively "evade" or it's just a single "miss chance" baked into the attacker's chance to hit. That kind of complex nerd stuff.

That said, 4E D&D is the only edition of Dungeons & Dragons whose mechanics are worth copying line-for-line into a computer game in the first place; tabletop RPGs literally have a lower standard for balance in part for the justifiable reason that a tabletop RPG will always have a referee game master overseeing play who can tweak the rules on the fly and overrule the book when anything in it isn't working for their players. It'd be like every time you went into a Diablo 2 game with four friends, there was a fifth friend who had the ability to change anything about the monsters or items or classes the second somebody quit having fun or messed up the game. The bigger thing here is that without the Planescape and AD&D licenses, every single thing in this game (from the setting lore to the things you can play as to the names of magic spells) will have to be written from the ground up by the developers, which is just another way it can go wrong.

MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."


Zombies' Downfall posted:

The bigger thing here is that without the Planescape and AD&D licenses, every single thing in this game (from the setting lore to the things you can play as to the names of magic spells) will have to be written from the ground up by the developers, which is just another way it can go wrong.
AD&D wasn't the type of game that lent itself easily to games though so hopefully it wouldn't be that big of a deal. On top of that the game mechanics are supposed to be based upon Numenera.

the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005



I might have agreed with the folks saying they need more proof from inXile before they released that Wasteland 2 video. I'm now 100% confident that they can pull it off.

Great Rumbler posted:

I don't think inXile has enough personnel to support full development of another major RPG, so I don't think they're actually going to jump right into another Kickstarter within the next few days/weeks. This seems like feelers more than anything else, gauging what people think about and how they want it setup for reference later in the year. And it would make sense to do it that way.

I think the reason they want to start a kickstarter sooner is so the writers and artists on their staff (who have finished their jobs on wasteland 2) have an actual job to do.

Twee as Fuck
Nov 13, 2012

by XyloJW


A lot of the complaints are absolutely redundant and I have dealt with them in the OP:

- Chris Avellone is involved in the project and gave its his blessing
- A lot of the staff that worked on Torment and Planescape as a whole are involved
- The Nameless One is not the protagonist
- They realize that this is early for a kickstarter, and intend to show more of Wasteland 2
- The staff working on Torment are already done working on Wasteland 2, Torment is only in pre-production therefore writers, conceptual artists and producers are the ones hard at work, not the development team


There is no reason to fear that this will end up like the Syndicate reboot.


Waroduce posted:

I'm really excited that PS:T is getting a sequal, but I'm just a little doubtful that these guys will be able to deliver the game in a way that we want to see it.

The team realizes that it is a tall order, that's why it's important to sign up and discuss these things! They will accept user feedback, ask questions and take in account what the fans really want in the new game.

Twee as Fuck fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2013 around 02:27

Mahuum Aqoha
Jan 15, 2004

SHEPARD!
Do it for the universe!


The thing that stood out about Planescape: Torment for me was just how weird and original the world is. I mean, sure, "what can change the nature of a man" was awesome and there was all sorts of philosophical implications, but there was also a guy(?) that was an avatar of a letter in the grand alphabetic code of the universe and when you talk to him you get brushed by absolute enlightenment. Or a guy that has a head that's separate from his body and you have to go find his head and reunite it with his body, who is stumbling around awkwardly in the Festhall. As long as this Numenera setting is capable of supporting such unique situations I'm all for it.

Sackmo
Oct 13, 2004


I really don't understand people's problem with "the question", because in the end it's not the question that's asked but how it's explored in a thematic context that matters. The question could be "why do people poo" for all it's worth, so long as the writers are talented enough to make it work.

Great Rumbler
Jan 30, 2013

For I am a dog, you see.


Mahuum Aqoha posted:

The thing that stood out about Planescape: Torment for me was just how weird and original the world is. I mean, sure, "what can change the nature of a man" was awesome and there was all sorts of philosophical implications, but there was also a guy(?) that was an avatar of a letter in the grand alphabetic code of the universe and when you talk to him you get brushed by absolute enlightenment. Or a guy that has a head that's separate from his body and you have to go find his head and reunite it with his body, who is stumbling around awkwardly in the Festhall. As long as this Numenera setting is capable of supporting such unique situations I'm all for it.

There isn't a lot of information out there, but I do absolutely love the vibe coming off the few bits of art they've shown so far:



Drifter
Oct 22, 2000



Great Rumbler posted:

There isn't a lot of information out there, but I do absolutely love the vibe coming off the few bits of art they've shown so far:





Hoo, yeah, that concept art looks interesting. It's funny, the first thing I thought of when I saw those images was concept art of Zanarkand in Final Fantasy X. That, plus vampire hunter D - what with the silly long curvy swords. I don't even like Vampire Hunter D.

I'm definitely not trying to poo poo the thread up with any sort of negativity, and I'm totally looking forward to seeing the Torment idea develop, but having faith in something and having it completed to satisfaction are two different things - especially when your first faith hasn't been rewarded. For me (that doesn't make it the optimal choice for everyone, though), I can't really think of anything that would compel me to give my money to inXile again short of me playing their first new game, Wasteland 2. Even with Obsidian, a developer whom I adore and whose Kickstarter I pledged a large amount of money to, I won't preorder Southpark (a property that I have an irrational love of).

Everybody gets one leap of faith (unrequited cash from my wallet), but for a game that is going to be writing/idea heavy like PS:T, they gotta show that they can meet the expectations they're referencing and creating. Their last two games were, what, Chopper HD and Hunted Demon's Forge?

Drifter fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2013 around 04:43

Great Rumbler
Jan 30, 2013

For I am a dog, you see.


Drifter posted:

They're last two games were, what, Chopper HD and Hunted Demon's Forge?

Yes, and I did enjoy Hunted, but they're working with an almost completely different team for Wasteland 2 and Torment 2, a lot of new faces were brought in specifically for those games [and specifically for their previous experience working on the originals]. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be cautious about throwing your money around, just that it's hard to really judge how their two new games will turn out based on inXile's previous efforts.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Page Downfall
May 5, 2009


Twee as gently caress posted:


why should I care about this?

PS:T was considered widely as the best RPG that came out that year, and has gained a large cult following since then.

This isn't entirely accurate. It's considered widely as the best RPG to come out in any year. Ever.

Also you should stop reading this now and go play/replay Planescape:Torment.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«65 »