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My great shame is that I still haven't finished PS:T. 
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Feb 21, 2013 05:42
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What are you doing with your life? I mean like right now, this minute. Boot it up. Here is a handy link in case you don't have it on your desktop ready to go  http://www.gog.com/gamecard/planescape_torment e: 
Page Downfall fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 05:44
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No, it's very much ready to go! Mods all up in that business! I've played far into the game at least 3 or 4 times, but I keep getting distracted and forget to actually finish it. I'm the worst person in the world. 
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Feb 21, 2013 05:47
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JebanyPedal posted:Ugh, yet another attempt to show love for "oldschool cRPG fans" that just ends up repeating the same mistakes that were made 20 years ago. The Wasteland 2 video looked abjectly awful, with its tedious, shallow, and stagnant combat. Guess what? Your tastes in games has changed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But not everyone has the same taste. I watched that preview of WL2 and absolutely wanted to play that game. It fits my tastes perfectly gameplay-wise. Just because you like different types of games now doesn't mean you should assume everyone else is the same.
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Feb 21, 2013 06:03
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Page Downfall posted:What are you doing with your life? Not that Torment isn't a great game but Gog rates Daikatana at 2.5 stars which means their average rating has at least a 2.5 star inflation.
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Feb 21, 2013 06:21
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:Not that Torment isn't a great game but Gog rates Daikatana at 2.5 stars which means their average rating has at least a 2.5 star inflation. The GOG forums can give you all the proof you need of why this is.  I want this to be good, but I feel like it won't be.
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Feb 21, 2013 06:29
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Twee as gently caress posted:Who the gently caress are inXile?! Chris Avellone and Black Isle are those who made PT:S great, how can it not be poo poo without him or the original team involved? Interplay's RPG division (out of which came Fallout) and Black Isle Studios were Interplay studios. Brian Fargo founded Interplay. Adraeus fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 06:46
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While I really liked Torments plot and such (Planescape is fun, and they used it fairly well), I found the actual gameplay of it to be worse then similar games at the time like the Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale games. Also I'm pretty sure I know 10 years olds that are better at math then Monte Cooke considering his design uh, choices in some of the games he made, although like mentioned earlier, he does think up some pretty cool poo poo some times so I guess the fact that he's involved at all is pretty much a wash. So I guess while I'd like for the game to be good I don't care enough to throw any money at the Kickstarter is what this amounts to.
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Feb 21, 2013 06:53
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:Not that Torment isn't a great game but Gog rates Daikatana at 2.5 stars which means their average rating has at least a 2.5 star inflation. They just use a weird rating scale where 5 stars is a classic, 4.5 is a good-great game, 4 is OK-good, and anything less than that is utter trash.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:04
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pyrotek posted:They just use a weird rating scale where 5 stars is a classic, 4.5 is a good-great game, 4 is OK-good, and anything less than that is utter trash. If you convert those into a percentage scale where 4 = 80, that's pretty much how every other site reviews games too.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:06
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I've only gotten halfway in Planescape Torment but it's still got astounding depth that far in. My conversations with Dak'kon were my favorite.  Would you guys recommend just cheating your way through it rather than struggling with the abysmal combat system or no?
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Feb 21, 2013 07:19
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Lord Lambeth posted:I've only gotten halfway in Planescape Torment but it's still got astounding depth that far in. My conversations with Dak'kon were my favorite. If you don't think the combat system is fun, then cheat.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:25
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goldjas posted:While I really liked Torments plot and such (Planescape is fun, and they used it fairly well), I found the actual gameplay of it to be worse then similar games at the time like the Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale games. Yeah this is quite true. Like Morrowind, it's a lot of really good rpg stuff with a frankly bad combat system dropped on top. But this is a known thing. This is not like the old Fallout games, or Baldur's Gate where there is a hardcore of fans who want the combat to be just like it was when they played it over a decade ago. I'm actually fairly excited about this, despite falling firmly into the camp (which I think includes most everyone who played PS:T) that feels there should never be a sequel made for that game. I don't want more Planescape Torment, I want more games where there is back and forth between my characters personality as I project it on the world and how the world responds to me. I want more RPGs that think about how the very act of playing a game versus say, reading a book or watching a movie, can be exploited to better tell a story. I want a game that let's me a play an evil character that is actually devious or make choices with unexpected and unintended consequences that nonetheless feel like a natural part of the game world. And I want to play fantasy games that have a more interesting a creative story than Dragonlance vol 316 crossplatform edition. Basically I want game like PS:T, but I don't really want another PS:T, and that is exactly how this project is being presented. I think that's why it has the Torment franchise attached to it. I'm not alone in this either, this is essentially why it's such a well loved game, and it sounds like these guys know that. In the case of Torment it's not about recreating the combat and spellcasting experience or revisiting beloved locations and characters at all, it's about recreating the storytelling experience and the way you interact with the world.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:34
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I'm cautiously optimistic. As everyone else has been saying, I'm gonna to see how Wasteland 2 ends up, if its good I'll definitely throw some money in. I like the idea of carrying the themes from Planescape to a new setting; I just hope they can maintain the quality of writing.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:34
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Drifter posted:Their last two games were, what, Chopper HD and Hunted Demon's Forge? Chopper HD was an excellent game for what it was 
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Feb 21, 2013 07:36
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:If you don't think the combat system is fun, then cheat. Listen to this man, there is a tome of cheats in the tweak pack for a reason.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:43
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Page Downfall posted:I don't want more Planescape Torment, I want more games where there is back and forth between my characters personality as I project it on the world and how the world responds to me. I want more RPGs that think about how the very act of playing a game versus say, reading a book or watching a movie, can be exploited to better tell a story. I want a game that let's me a play an evil character that is actually devious or make choices with unexpected and unintended consequences that nonetheless feel like a natural part of the game world. And I want to play fantasy games that have a more interesting a creative story than Dragonlance vol 316 crossplatform edition. This says everything I want about a game like this, in Planescape Torment you start playing a weird as gently caress dude and find even more bizarre and weird party members and your actions actually have consequences. In Skyrim you always have humanoid companions and your actions aren't recognized at all, when I killed the Emperor in the Dark Brotherhood questline I wanted to rub it in the face of every dude in Solitude or at least the Queen or General Tullius but the game didn't let me, I want to be an rear end in a top hat dammit 
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Feb 21, 2013 07:47
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Page Downfall posted:Basically I want game like PS:T, but I don't really want another PS:T, and that is exactly how this project is being presented. I think that's why it has the Torment franchise attached to it. I'm not alone in this either, this is essentially why it's such a well loved game, and it sounds like these guys know that. In the case of Torment it's not about recreating the combat and spellcasting experience or revisiting beloved locations and characters at all, it's about recreating the storytelling experience and the way you interact with the world. It also seems like people are not familiar enough with Fargo/Interplays history in the games world. quote:The company was founded in October 1983 as Interplay Productions in Southern California with Brian Fargo as CEO. The first employees were the programmers Jay Patel, Troy Worrell, and Bill Heineman who had previously worked with Fargo at a small video game developer called Boone Corporation. The first projects were non-original and consisted of software conversions and even some military work for Loral Corporation. After negotiations with Activision, Interplay entered a $100,000 contract to produce three illustrated text adventures for them. Published in 1984, Mindshadow is loosely based on Robert Ludlum's Bourne Identity while The Tracer Sanction puts the player in the role of an interplanetary secret agent. Borrowed Time which features a script by Arnie Katz' Subway Software followed in 1985. These adventures built upon work previously done by Fargo: his first game was the 1981 published Demon's Forge. When Fargo has his poo poo together it works out well.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:Chopper HD was an excellent game for what it was Oh, I didn't mean to imply those games were not solid titles on their own. I merely meant to say that nothing from those games shows that inXile is a developer who can create engaging and thought provoking story and plot and interactive elements that are going to really be crucial in a  spiritual successor of Torment. Great Rumbler makes a solid point saying that Fargo has put together essentially a new team for Wasteland and Torment (T|2)oo, so it's anybody's guess as to how it will shape up development-wise - so it is wrong to just shrug off the potential. However, even if it were Obsidian kickstarting a new NEW project, I think the wisest course of action is to see what the first project resolves itself into before you go funding another. If the news was just that "they're developing the game, so be sure to look out for it in 2014 and buy it," then gently caress yeah I'd be super stoked. But now they're allegedly going to be asking for money, again, before the first project that they asked money for is out. And the complexity of this game is, per expectation, much more complex in terms of writing and interactivity and character development than other things they've done. All this talk of 15 year old history means very little, consider the case with Ron Gilbert's most recent, decent but not stand out game, The Cave. In my opinion, anything past 6-10 years becomes ultimately nice but disregardable when expecting the same type of performance from someone. Whether it's just an outlier or not, this type of thing comes with a huge loving caveat emptor. This cult of nostalgic pedestal-placement of developers is getting really weird, especially when there hasn't been anything to come out of it yet, except our money.
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Feb 21, 2013 08:08
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FRINGE posted:Yeah theyve been very clear about this, the reactionary hate seems a little silly. It isn't hate, it's concern that people are using Kickstarter to snatch up old properties to try and cash in on nostalgia. And until the studios doing it release good games to prove me wrong, I'm going to remain a skeptic. Drifter posted:All this talk of 15 year old history means very little, consider the case with Ron Gilbert's most recent, decent but not stand out game, The Cave. In my opinion, anything past 6-10 years becomes ultimately nice but disregardable when expecting the same type of performance from someone. Whether it's just an outlier or not, this type of thing comes with a huge loving caveat emptor. You don't even need to look that far afield for an example; Alpha Protocol does some things well but it's a loving wreck compared to Torment, and while New Vegas is better in pretty much every meaningful way than FO3 it isn't exactly an epic feat to do that when 75% of the non-writing aspect of development was already done for you by another company. Gamers of a particular age are utterly consumed with nostalgia for things that they obsessed over as teenagers and college students, and will happily exalt anything their idols give them so long as they make a token effort to show camaraderie and speak their language.
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Feb 21, 2013 08:31
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Zombies' Downfall posted:It isn't hate, it's concern that people are using Kickstarter to snatch up old properties to try and cash in on nostalgia. And until the studios doing it release good games to prove me wrong, I'm going to remain a skeptic. Yeah these are good points. That was partly my reaction to this too, and it's also a little less obvious what we'll be getting compared to say the Double Fine kickstarter or Wasteland 2 or Project Eternity. There are clear expectations about mechanically how games like those work and the appeal is very much 'you boot this game up and it feels just like these games you loved years ago'. But there's a lot more uncertainty how a Torment sequel might play, since I doubt anyone is longing for a lovely version of the infinity engine revived as a delivery vehicle for hundreds of pages of text. It also seems that games that try to make writing and storytelling a design priority are a complete crapshoot, even at the best of times and from the best studios. And maybe this goes some way towards explaining why we don't see more games like PS:T rather than the typical 'decline of the genre' story we've heard with these other kickstarter projects. I'm still excited anyway 
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Feb 21, 2013 09:23
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I backed Monte Cook's Numenera PnP kickstarter, not for the rules, but because the setting was basically Dying Earth/Book of the New Sun the game. That made me all tingly to begin with. Then I found out there was going to be a CRPG made using the Numenera setting, I became doubly tingly. Then I found out it was going to be a homage/continuation of PS:Torment and I think I had a stroke. I'm being optimistic because it's too drat easy to be negative. Along with Project Eternity, fantasy that I might actually give a poo poo about, exploring themes is an engrossing way, is being made and I'm rapt.
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Feb 22, 2013 11:11
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TG-Chrono posted:I backed Monte Cook's Numenera PnP kickstarter, not for the rules, but because the setting was basically Dying Earth/Book of the New Sun the game. That made me all tingly to begin with. Then I found out there was going to be a CRPG made using the Numenera setting, I became doubly tingly. Then I found out it was going to be a homage/continuation of PS:Torment and I think I had a stroke. Basically every single loving NPC will be a malicious, avaricious trickster, and if you stumble across a tall guy in a long, black coat he will try to sleep with the female characters in your party. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 11:42
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Neurosis posted:Basically every single loving NPC will be a malicious, avaricious trickster, and if you stumble across a tall guy in a long, black coat he will try to sleep with the female characters in your party. Yes. Yeeeeesssssssss. And if there isn't a fuligin lictor or spatterlight carnifex in there somewhere I'm going to be pissed.
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Feb 22, 2013 11:47
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TG-Chrono posted:I backed Monte Cook's Numenera PnP kickstarter, not for the rules, but because the setting was basically Dying Earth/Book of the New Sun the game. That made me all tingly to begin with. Then I found out there was going to be a CRPG made using the Numenera setting, I became doubly tingly. Then I found out it was going to be a homage/continuation of PS:Torment and I think I had a stroke. You know, when you put it like this, it's making me an awful lot more excited than I was before. I'll back this accordingly with how clever Brian Fargo is with setting things up with the Kickstarter. That is to say if he does it on the same day as they release Wasteland 2, I'll give bare minimum. If he does it after Wasteland 2 starts getting reviews, I'll increase pledge. If he manages to hype it as much as Obsidian hyped up Project:Eternity, I'll probably give a ton again.
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Feb 22, 2013 11:54
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It would be good if they started it a week or so before Wasteland 2 comes out, then they can start with a good pitch and just as the campaign is entering the slow middle period they can say "Oh by the way the game we just released is "an epic masterpiece" according to Game Informer or whoever". That is assuming they're confident that it'll be well received. I haven't played PST yet, but I'm kind of interested in this project because I follow Kevin Saunders on Formspring and his posts are consistently thoughtful and insightful regarding game development.. I don't know about living up to the Torment Legacy or whatever, but I think any game he's making is probably in good hands.
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Feb 22, 2013 23:06
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havenwaters posted:Listen to this man, there is a tome of cheats in the tweak pack for a reason. I would make the argument that giving yourself maximum stats from the beginning actually makes the game better.
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Feb 22, 2013 23:10
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Twee as gently caress posted:Good news, Chris Avellone is involved. Just as he was involved with Wasteland 2, he is also involved with T:ToN. He has given Brian Fargo his blessing his well, and not only is Chris involved, but he personally hand-picked and sent a team over at inXile for that project, while inXile recruited some on their own as well. Are you sure about this? From what I have heard Avellone has given his blessing, and indeed sent a few people Fargo's way, but won't be working on the project. quote:What about the people in charge of the scenario ? Are the « chosen ones » selected ? Will be Chris Avellone be related in any way in your project ? Could you talk a bit about the overall scenario/story of the game ? Source: Dagon's Lair
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Feb 23, 2013 00:51
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I really don't know if this project fills me with fear or hope. It's second only to PE in dear-God-please-don't-gently caress-this-up right now.
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Feb 23, 2013 01:04
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:If you don't think the combat system is fun, then cheat. I actually bought the game after reading a .txt file someone compiled of the npc dialogue arranged into a somewhat linear story. It basically cherrypicked all of the "good"/"cool" things that could happen in the story and just wrote it out like a book. I was sold after the first "chapter", so yeah, it's that good. If the lovely combat system turns you away, just trivialize it with cheating. Having max wisdom from the start too will also open up more interesting dialogue options and you'll be able to do it without struggling through the combat with a lovely all wisdom character. They did a decent job balancing it with increased experience from higher wisdom meaning you generally have a higher levelled character, but it was still kind of a slog. Personally, I could stand it and it was fun sometimes, but mostly kind of tedious and boring. Definitely turn it off if it means you wont play the game otherwise.
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Feb 23, 2013 01:29
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If Chris Avelloen isnt working on it them im not interested. The question "What is one life worth" while profound doesnt affect me as much as "what can change the nature of a man". The former question feels like intellectual masturbation to me- it doesnt seem personal or important - the latter reaches deep into the depth of your own soul. Quite frankly, i think if you are to make a spiritual successor to Planescape Torment, you should use the same question but under a DIFFERENT context.
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Feb 25, 2013 06:52
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They do have Chris Avellone's blessing, which has to count for something. I'm not gonna crucify because they don't have the exact some development team and writers, but I'll be a little skeptical. Hopefully they'll wait until Wasteland is out or almost out.
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Feb 25, 2013 07:38
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They've basically tried to get as much of the old team back together as possible and Chris Avellone even helped put the team together, despite not actually being involved in the development himself. Seems kind of premature to write off the game based on the lack of his direct involvement and not liking the exact wording of the game's theme. Well, whatever.
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Feb 25, 2013 08:14
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I really like Planescape: Torment but the question "What can chance the nature of a man" was not really that significant a reason to me liking it, I just liked that it was all weird and wordy and stuff.
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Feb 25, 2013 08:17
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You guys are weird. Colin McComb and Monte Cook were the lead designers on Planescape at TSR after the creator David Cook left the project. That's the original Planescape, on which Black Isle's Planescape: Torment is based. McComb was a designer on Planescape: Torment at Black Isle, too. FYI: http://colinmccomb.com/?p=157
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Feb 25, 2013 08:37
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quote:What was most memorable for most players of the game? Based on the conversations I’ve had with friends and fans, the answers (at least from a design perspective) boil down to these. It: quote:The first step in designing a new Torment story is to ask the primary question. I’m older than I was when I worked on Torment, and my questions now are different than they were. I have children now, and I look at the world through their eyes and through mine, and that’s changed me – in fact, the intervening years have changed me so much that I have new answers for the central story in the original Torment. So now that I know what can change the nature of a man, I ask: What does one life matter? … and does it matter at all? He's the creative lead for Torment 2. Great Rumbler fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 08:50
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Chairchucker posted:I just liked that it was all weird and wordy and stuff. Assuming, of course, that the Kickstarter gets off the ground. There's always the chance that the game simply won't get funded.
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Feb 25, 2013 08:51
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I think what this thread needs is an argument. I'll go first! Reiz posted:I don't know. If "What does one life matter?" is this game's version of "What can change the nature of a man?", I can't see it being anywhere near as good as PS:T. It seems like a lovely cliche plot point that has one of two uninteresting answers. You should probably watch this Mitchell & Webb sketch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUbjpwyesk0 Now imagine Robert Webb's character is you and "Is there a God" is "Does one life really matter?" because that's all I'm getting from you. Two uninteresting answers? What the hell are you even talking about? People have pretty much debated about this subject ever since they invented speech! Are you suggesting that whoever is writing this game is simultaneously both an unparalleled genius that can finally answer this question like no one else ever could before but simultaneously completely poo poo and awful? Are you just imagining some clearly black and white thinking exercise where there's one dude that you kill and that act of killing him will literally in itself spare millions in some astoundingly poorly defined manner? Stories don't have thinking exercises, they have situations and characters with logic, and feelings that override logic! What if there's a closed space and a contagion and a fatal illness that takes a while to incubate, and hundreds of people trapped there, and the chance that a small child is infected and everyone will be fine if they kill him right away? Can you really say there's one definite and boring answer? Just kill him to be safe, how boring, there's nothing to be said about this, some dude just gets chosen to do the deed and then nothing interesting can be said about that because he's like "beep boop I am a robot, killing children is just dandy" and the child's family and friends will go "well it was for the common good". And naturally there's no chance of ever finding out you were wrong and the child was healthy. Or alternately that they all chose to spare the child and they're now all dying. Did they regret their choice? If not, why not? Nah, none of that could ever be presented under any circumstances as interesting. How about a hypothetical person that's seen a lot of fighting and death with no clearly defined moral boundaries? A soldier, possibly. Someone who fought a war for something he didn't really know to be right, against equally uncertain people, who he killed. What if a person like that eventually comes to believe that no human being could ever flawlessly judge someone's worth compared to anyone else, and just decided that the value of any one person equals the value of any other one person? Should he kill a mass murderer? Of course he should, that's one person dead versus many spared because he would have gone on killing. What if it's something less clear, though? What about a politician who believes the course of action he's taking will strengthen the bonds between two nations while the soldier thinks it will lead to a war? What if that person is someone he loves? Can he really be unswayed as a person with feelings? What if there are no certainties? Could he still maintain his clearly defined "one life matters less than those of many" morality? Was it really that clear to begin with? By distancing yourself from the fact that people are different, aren't you just dehumanizing them and yourself? Does this kind of morality hold up if you really try to hold, say, Einstein and Hitler in the same value? Would someone just change their values after considering that? What would they change them to? What are the better definite answers? That's just two examples and I could write a loving novel about either scenario. You really haven't thought this through at all, have you. awesomepanda posted:The question "What is one life worth" while profound doesnt affect me as much as "what can change the nature of a man". The former question feels like intellectual masturbation to me- it doesnt seem personal or important - the latter reaches deep into the depth of your own soul. Quite frankly, i think if you are to make a spiritual successor to Planescape Torment, you should use the same question but under a DIFFERENT context. After consulting my watch I notice it is now devil's advocate time. So, how about that Planescape: Torment game, guys? Wasn't that dumb? "What can change the nature of a man?" What a load of intellectual masturbation. They didn't even answer the question in any definite way. They just gave a load of different answers that basically amounted to "pretty much any old thing" and called it a day. That's just lazy, wishy-washy, pseudo-intellectual garbage. Now, "what is one life worth", there's a good question. It's personal, because we all know some people and hold them in some kind of value and tragedies touch all of us during our lives. You could write a whole entire game about just such a topic, I'd wager.
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Feb 25, 2013 11:38
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awesomepanda posted:The question "What is one life worth" while profound doesnt affect me as much as "what can change the nature of a man".
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Feb 25, 2013 11:43
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As someone who hasn't played Torment (very far), both those lines strike me as equally full of depth. But from what I understand, it's what Chris Avellone did with the question that turned out interesting and I can see the same in the former. Neither are more personal than the other. Maybe "What is one life worth" is referencing your own life and big idea is that you consider yourself worthless for most part of the game, until you come to realize exactly what hinges on your staying alive.
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Feb 25, 2013 12:20
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