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Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012
HI HERE WE GO HERE WE GO HERE WE GO

Hello everyone, my name is Fionordequester, and welcome to...



Table of Contents:

MAIN LP LIST

Episode 1-Old Men, Dogs, and Walls! The Ultimate Foes! (To Before Cave of Earth)

Episode 2-From Sea to Shining Sea: Part 1 (To Melenam) and Part 2 (At Melenam)

Episode 3-The Ebb and the Flow (To Water Rune)

Episode 4-And You Thought Grinding Was Just For Coffee?! (To Level 19)

Episode 5-Pathos of Power (To Star Rune)

Episode 6-Doom and Defeat on the Dunes of Despair (To Dowaine)

MINI-UPDATE LIST

Mini-Update #1-Game Mechanics Formula's and Monster Stats

Mini-Update #2-Party and Turn Order Mechanics

Mini-Update #3-Fanon Theory #1

Mini-Update #4-Elnard Version Part 1 (A Very Special Message From Your New Overlord!)

Mini-Update #5-How Does Everyone Else Deal With the Dunes of Despair?

Yep, that's right. We're going to be playing THAT game. But before we jump into that, I wish to talk about a neat little gem of an RPG known as Elnard. Designed as an RPG with a much simpler story than say, the SNES Final Fantasy games, it nevertheless featured many revolutionary ideas, such as the ability to pick your main character, animated battle sprites, the ability to actually see random encounters, and most of all, the ability to fight, recruit, or even just chat with whatever characters you didn't choose.

Coupled with these ideas were incredible graphics, a great background story helped by the dark, muted feel of the games landscape and monster designs, an incredible soundtrack by one-hit-wonder Norihiko Yamanuki, and most importantly of all, challenge that was tough but fair.

Unfortunately, it did not seem to be as much of a success as one would hope, though it wasn't regarded as BAD persay. No, in fact, according to someone I once emailed who came from Japan...

quote:

from what I've read, the game is described as good, but underknown.

...AAAAAAND then the localization happened, in which some...controversial decisions were made. Oh sure, the translation was fine, as, in the words of "pokeeiyu"...

quote:

It's a highly competent localization, though names were the things to suffer the most. 7th Saga even has orphaned lines with exposition. Some flavor text with what could be considered throwaway personality for townspeople was also changed to exposition occasionally.

...so that's not the problem. No, the problem is their decision to make the game harder in just about the crudest way possible, inflating the HP of many enemies and bosses (one boss even has more than TRIPLE what he had in the original version!), hamstringing the growths of many of the apprentices (COUGHKamilCOUGH), and also taking away what was by far the player’s most valuable assets...Elnard growths.

You see, every 10 levels, your characters stat growths per level would increase by one point for every level, meaning that if you got 5 HP per level on average from 1-9, you'd get 6 HP from 10-19, then 7 HP from 20-29, and so on and so forth...or at least, they would in the original version...

However, that is not the case here, which means that even assuming that growths weren't tweaked between versions, you can literally level a character all the way up to Level 46 in this version, and still have him/her only be as strong as their Level 33 selves in the original version. Combine that with the buffed stats of many of the monsters (ESPECIALLY the bosses), and you've got one of the most infamously grind-heavy games on the SNES...

Whether this was by accident or not (monster stats are hard to screw up, but the Elnard levels could have been a piece of data mistakenly deleted while other data was being shifted around), it ended up making the game far harder than it was intended to be...

...even so, I still don't believe it's that bad. It may have suffered a bit in translation, but I still don't think even this version deserves the bad rap it's gotten over the years, and frankly, I'm not really satisfied with either the inefficient strategies or the generally negative tone present on the Something Awful Archive. And even though this situation has been made better by the presence of this LP...

http://telebunny.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=12551

...I still think there's more to share and delve into than even the excellent job done by this LPer here given here (in particular, he gets into some good analysis in the "Intermission" segments). So, of course, this is the version we're going to be playing, though one should definitely check out the Japanese version if stuff like exposed breasts (yes, the Japanese version has those on monsters like "Serpant") isn't a problem.

Anyways, let's get on with the intro shall we?

Intro Theme









Pay attention to the wording of that last screenshot. Once the game ends, it's something I'd like to come back to later on.





And with that, we move on to the next part of the intro, with this awesome music!

The 7 Apprentices





Everything from here is a reel of footage showing our seven heroes going about their lives before this old man teleports in and gets them to follow him somewhere. It actually contains some interesting background details about their if you pay close enough attention.



Spell casting is hard to capture in still images.







Again, keep notes for later...



This however, could be several different places, so THIS you don't need to worry about...still, never pegged Esuna for a drunk











And here we have the ONLY apprentice in the game who shows up WITHOUT permission from King Lemele, traveling pretty much across the continent to do so as well. Now that's awesome!



So after beginning a new game, we come to our character select screen, where we can give a name in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS or press enter after choosing nothing. Do that, and you'll get the character's default name with letters in the correct case...bet you all didn't know you could do that, huh?

However, rather than selecting the best character, I'm going to give this LP some added punch and let YOU guys choose who I'm going to use throughout the game! To help you guys do that, I am going to be listing the characters in order of who helps beat the game the quickest, so the top character is the fastest, and the bottom character is the slowest. The "Stat Gains Per Level" numbers are the numbers they usually get upon level up, though there is a 50% chance that said level up will give you one more point or one less in whatever stat is raised.

Also keep in mind that, despite the vastly different personalities of the apprentices, there is almost no unique dialogue between them all, so if you're hoping to get entertaining comments with say, Lux, that the others won't get, well, prepare to be disappointed. Every bit of text, with a few exceptions, are the same regardless of who you choose, though Olvan IS given access to some money that you wouldn't be able to get otherwise. That being said, Lux and Esuna DO end up taking a different route through the middle game than the rest do, so if that matters, there is that...

And then of course, since I intend to show off the differences between the two versions of this game, I have also given the original Elnard stat growths of each character in the Elnard version (in bold) alongside the ones they have in the English version (not in bold), just to give you a small sample of how much of a doozy this version is. Enjoy!



Average Stat Gains Per Level:

HP: 8>7
MP: 2>2
Pow: 5>4
Def: 5>5
Mag: 3>3
Spd: 3>3

Lux: Lux is purely mechanical, but also much more human than he might seem, being intelligent, inquisitive, and polite to the point of seeming subservience. However, despite his gentle facade, Lux is an incredibly powerful and is shown to be an effective warrior in his quest to find out who created him, and why.

That said, Lux is pretty simple. He hits hard, doesn't take much in return, doesn't have any non-offensive spells, and is kind of slow. However, his Speed never seriously becomes a problem unless you go into the endgame without a partner (which you shouldn't), and until then, his superior defense and ability to befriend other apprentices allows him to stand head and shoulders above the other apprentices...

And that's not even including a game breaking glitch that you can pull off with Lux, which of course I will show you later on.



Stat Gains Per Level:

HP: 9>8
MP: 2>2
Pow: 5>4
Def: 6>5
Mag: 2>2
Spd: 5>4

Wilme: Possessing pride and warrior spirit, Wilme is constantly driven to prove his superiority to the other apprentices after many years of being teased because of his appearance. And superior he is, in so many ways...

First of all, this guy was a fricken BEAST in the original Elnard version (no, that's not a typo, he actually DID have HIGHER Defense growth than the fricken ROBOT!), and is still the second best character here despite having been nerfed in almost every stat...

That being said, the lack of Elnard boosts in this version means that Wilme will have serious issues surviving against magic, especially since he hardly has any talent in Magic himself. And while he'll be able to recruit a partner powerful enough to solo the rest of the game before that REALLY starts to become a problem, it still slows him down enough in the midgame that he falls short of Lux despite having higher Speed and HP growths. And of course, the fact that he's so mean to the other apprentices doesn't help any...

Seriously, this guy is nothing if not a pill. He is actually SO MUCH of a rear end in a top hat that if you talk to him after a certain point in the game, he will actually FORCE his way into your party if he doesn't just try to kill you. Yeah, that's right, he's coming along whether you want him to or not, and if you happen to have a partner with you TOO BAD!! Even the supposed "evil" apprentice doesn't do that! Better watch out!



Stat Gains Per Level:

HP: 6>5
MP: 3>3
Pow: 3>3
Def: 3>3
Mag: 3>3
Spd: 4>4

Lejes: Perhaps because of a troubled childhood, this person is wily, mean-spirited, power hungry, full of malice...and is incredibly valuable in spite of all these flaws. It may not seem that way at first due to his middling HP and lackluster growths in everything but Speed, but he is in fact surprisingly useful despite these shortcomings. In addition to being able a competent physical fighter due to his incredible weapon selection, he also learns Vacuum at a very early level (an instant kill spell), his Speed allows him to dodge and hit enemies reliably, and most of all, he learns the incredibly useful "F.Shield" (or "F.Shid" as the game calls it), which completely negates the next magic attack that hits him...

...this...is simply GODLY. What it means is that as long as Lejes can survive more than two hits from any boss he fights, he's effectively already won that boss fight. And in many of the games most dangerous fights, where powerful magic spells are being thrown every which way, his party's chances of survival increases substantially with F.Shid. With all this in mind, it's no wonder that 7th Saga speed runner PJ is in love with him...

However, unlike PJ, I still don't believe Lejes is the BEST and FASTEST character to choose, Single Segment Speed run or otherwise. Because for as awesomely skilled as PJ is, I believe he has overlooked the true potential of the "recruit a high leveled Elnard partner strategy", a strategy that can be done fairly reliably if you know how, and I've been able to construct a route able to consistently beat even his WR run by 10-50 minutes (the time saved fluctuates a lot depending on who you get, and how soon you get them)...

In any case though, back to Lejes. He doesn't have any particular weaknesses and has an answer for every problem, but, outside of F.Shid and his high Speed, he doesn't really EXCEL in anything either. Combine that with how hard it is to recruit partners with him, and he's someone who's definitely solid, but still not QUITE as good as the two above...

Still, he's your man if you're doing a solo challenge, if that means anything.



Stat Gains Per Level:

HP: 6>5
MP: 5>5
Pow: 2>2
Def: 2>2
Mag: 4>4
Spd: 4>4

Esuna: As a magician handpicked by Lemele himself, Esuna is full of talent and anxious to prove it. She has the game's lowest growths in every physical stat except for speed, but she makes up for it with her incredible magic, including instant kill attacks in the Vacuum series of spells, and though her frailty slows her down, her mastery of the Defense1 spell helps to make up for that even in the early game (though you will still have to be cautious with her). And of course, the fact that the Magic stat covers both defense AND offense certainly helps as well. Plus, for one reason or another, she is one of the two most popular apprentices, making it easy for her to recruit others to her side.

However, magic attacks still have longer animations than physical attacks, and since there's almost no way to boost the Magic stat like you can the Attack stat (more on that later), she takes longer to kill bosses and other magic resistant enemies (which unfortunately includes Brains and S. Brain's, two of the greatest monsters to grind off of...and you WILL need to do grinding!). So, despite her talents, she is still slower than the three above her, though still a solid choice nevertheless.



Stat Gains Per Level:

HP: 6>5
MP: 4>4
Pow: 2>2
Def: 3>3
Mag: 4>4
Spd: 4>4

Valsu: A devout and kindly man, Valsu is determined almost to a fault to do whatever he has set his mind to, and has dedicated his entire life to healing and helping others. This lifelong devotion to peace is shown to be both a blessing and a curse throughout his journey, for though he has learned much over the years, he has almost no skill in offensive magic, meaning that his damage output is very limited under most circumstances.

Nevertheless, with his mastery of every kind of support spell, he is easily able to outlast the foe in any fight that he can survive more than one round in, and due to his possession of the fabled Agility spell as well as a high Speed score, he can actually circumvent his primary weakness by arriving at some towns at a lower level than intended. What this means is that he can buy incredibly useful items earlier than intended, including Vacuums, which instantly kill any enemy that they happen to work on. As you can imagine, this makes grinding sessions go much faster...

Unfortunately however, due to the hostility he draws from Lejes and Wilme (and Esuna, but she's not a good endgame partner anyways), his ability to recruit partners for the endgame suffers somewhat, meaning more overall time lost by convincing the apprentices to join him. Because of that combined with his lack of offense, he is still the 5th slowest character in terms of completing the game, as well as one of the more annoying ones to do it with.



Stat Gains Per Level:

HP: 7>6
MP: 2>2
Pow: 3>3
Def: 4>3
Mag: 3>3
Spd: 3>3

Olvan: Hampered by his size and old age, Olvan is nevertheless a battle hardened warrior filled with dreams and aspirations. By far his most valuable contribution is his ability to halve the physical damage done to someone with Defense1, something that is enormously useful in many spots in the game...

But does that really justify using him despite his decidedly lackluster stat growths? In my opinion, the answer is no, and even though his higher HP goes a long way in making him more durable than Kamil (ESPECIALLY against magic), his accuracy woes, limited magic capabilities (though he does have many healing spells), and lack of good offense outside of extremely costly equipment (Kamil at least has Vacuum) will cause him to lag far behind anyone not named...



Stat Gains Per Level:

HP: 7>5
MP: 3>3
Pow: 3>3
Def: 4>3
Mag: 3>3
Spd: 4>3

Kamil: As a knight from the nation of Padal, Kamil is level headed and blessed with a strong sense of justice as well as incredible discipline that has allowed him to succeed in mastering almost all forms of magic, including most of the healing magicks. Put that on top of having the 3rd highest HP Growth, the 2nd highest growth in Defense and Speed, and the ability to equip magic resistant equipment, and you have yourself a character that can take almost every single kind of attack AND dish out damage. And to top it all off, he possesses a natural charisma that allows him to easily recruit many apprentices without conflict. Because of all these things, Kamil is easily the 2nd best character in the entire game, and one of the best choices a beginner can make...

At least, that was the case in Elnard. Unfortunately however in THIS version, by lowering defense, stamina, AND speed, the designers have effectively held Kamil in a corner and beat him to death with the nerf stick. The dude not only needs very costly equipment to survive before he even makes it to the midgame, but he will always have constant problems simply landing hits on his opponent. And due to his low HP, magic attacks will be a constant source of headache for him, ESPECIALLY against enemies that are skilled in more than one school of magic (which unfortunately includes about half of the boss fights).

What kills him most of all however, at least in this version, is that even if you can look past all his weaknesses, his lowered stat growths means that he can't do much that Olvan cannot, making him totally obsolete. He may have been the 2nd best character in Elnard, but here, he is without a doubt, the worst character in the entire game.

So, that's everyone! Note that whatever details I've said about their personalities are not made up, but are in fact collected from various sources like Nintendo Power, the game manual (of which two different scans are posted on Vimm), and in the case of Olvan and Lejes, from the game itself (those would be some of the very few times you get unique dialogue, and they're given at the town you start off in). However, because the game itself is so minimalistic despite the abundant potential for story in it, I wish to make occasional updates where I will bring up various fanon theories made about the game by its fans over the years. Would that be alright?


So, here's the way this thread is going to be. I am going to be beating this game as fast as I can using RTA (Real Time Attack) strategies with whoever you vote for, meaning it's a speed run where resets are allowed (as opposed to Single Segment where they weren't). I will be going over sidequests, but only after using save states to make it so that whatever experience, items, and the like that I get during the sidequests will not carry over into my main playthrough. This will make it so that the final time is not affected in the slightest.

Whatever the case, feel free to vote for whoever! I'll be leaving this open for about 2-3 days before continuing. Have a nice day!

EDIT: Oh, and here are some ground rules...

1) No spoilers unless you have them tagged with the spoiler tags.

2) No hate speech.

3) I may amend these rules at any time.

Fionordequester fucked around with this message at Sep 24, 2013 around 06:15

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Seiren
Dec 30, 2007

Camping portals and using pubbies as meatshields since 2008

I'm glad that you've got such a nice OP for this under-appreciated gem. Are those character portraits from the Instruction Manual? It isn't an excellent game, but I still enjoyed my time playing it through. Some great features and gameplay mechanics help differentiate it from many other RPGs from the era, though at least one of them could put the player in quite a spot of trouble.

You should play as Esuna Busy and murder everything with her ridiculous assortment of powerful spells.

I'm looking forward to the segments about Sidequests, as I'm not sure if I recall any that weren't required to advance...

Also, I'd like to see you suffer a little bit of extra frustration and throw a stick into the spokes of your time-attack and ask that you lose a battle to another apprentice while holding at least three runes. Reason being, to show us what happens, of course.

ChaoticGood
May 7, 2010


I vote Esuna, because she has a funny name.

FisheyStix
Jul 2, 2008

Well... Alright, I guess you can look at me.

I vote for Lejes, because look how rad he looks. Look at that. He's got horns, and claws, he shields against Fs. Why are we not playing him already?

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

The only mystery left,
is what I put in your tea.


There's no option other than Kamil.

I think I remember playing this game for about half an hour as a kid, but I don't really recall anything from it.

Yapping Eevee
Nov 12, 2011



Ah, the 7th Saga. I played a good deal of this, but I came up to that old game-ending problem of having Valsu as the 2nd mandatory rival fight, able to cast Elixir. Go ahead and take Lux on what will hopefully be a more successful journey.

ZearothK posted:

There's no option other than Kamil.
That's just mean. Seriously, this game does not need to be harder/more tedious.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

My previous avatar was pretty sexist. I was overcompensating for being a Shy Guy.


Play as Lejes.

I'm glad that someone other than myself finds him to be a good, viable character, and that I'm not crazy for liking him the best back when I used to play this game. (Lux is also fantastic.)

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead.


I heard it was 2 points for every ten levels. Another thing that got changed is that Wilme doesn't wear pants.

Lux beep boop. We don't need Mr.Blue, who dies to a critical Flipping the Bird a fraction of the time.

The_Frag_Man
Mar 26, 2005

Woman 2.0

After carefully considering the options, I think you should play as the robot, Lux

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012
HI HERE WE GO HERE WE GO HERE WE GO

quote:

I'm glad that you've got such a nice OP for this under-appreciated gem. Are those character portraits from the Instruction Manual?

Why, yes they are! And you can view the instruction manual at either Vimm if you download something on that site, or, wait for a bit, and see it on Replacementdocs (which I'm currently working on uploading it to) without needing to have anything but Adobe Acrobat 6.0 (which according to the site, is a free download anyways).

quote:

Ah, the 7th Saga. I played a good deal of this, but I came up to that old game-ending problem of having Valsu as the 2nd mandatory rival fight, able to cast Elixir. Go ahead and take Lux on what will hopefully be a more successful journey.

Which character did you use? Because you don't necessarily HAVE to fight Valsu, even if you're Lejes or Wilme, though Valsu only has a 5% chance of not fighting them. Unless of course, you already fought him at some point.

Fionordequester fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2013 around 23:53

Hobologist
May 3, 2007


Go with Esuna because there's a point near the end that screws her over more than a non-caster.. It'll be fun.

Dwarsen
Jan 27, 2004
Dungeon Master

Esuna would be fun to see. The LP in the archives by Nakar used Wilme so it would be fun seeing a different character and route.

And I think it could be fun seeing some fanon theories, as long as they're not...too weird...

1kb.se - för oss som inte tar spel sĺ allvarligt

Dunatis Ishmael
Feb 22, 2013


I have to jump on the Esuna wagon, since she's the only one my friend and I never really touched.

alcharagia
Apr 23, 2008

What.
Did you say.
To that horse.

Lux. And make certain Wilme is your partner so we can have the two guys who look the most awesome. If that's a thing you can do, I mean.

Yapping Eevee
Nov 12, 2011



Fionordequester posted:

Which character did you use? Because you don't necessarily HAVE to fight Valsu, even if you're Lejes or Wilme, though Valsu only has a 5% chance of not fighting them. Unless of course, you already fought him at some point.
You should actually quote posts so that spoiler tags remain intact, you know. Unless you just don't care about spoilers.

I was playing as Lux, and it was for who stole the Sky Rune. And the way I was saving meant that yes, I did have to fight him.

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006



Second/Worst character to play as, and has the brass balls to invite himself to the adventuring party without a royal invite?

You simply must dwarf it up with Olvan

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012
HI HERE WE GO HERE WE GO HERE WE GO

Yapping Eevee posted:

You should actually quote posts so that spoiler tags remain intact, you know. Unless you just don't care about spoilers.

I was playing as Lux, and it was for who stole the Sky Rune. And the way I was saving meant that yes, I did have to fight him.

...Arrggh. So sorry about that. And yes, I do care about spoilers. Now that I think about it, I probably should've made a few rules...oh well, I'll put them in the OP.

RentCavalier
Jul 10, 2008

by T. Finninho


Yeah, go with Olvan. Dwarves are cool. Plus I always pick Lux when I play this game (or Lejes) and those are kind of too obvious choices for this LP.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



ZearothK posted:

There's no option other than Kamil.

Making the LPer suffer is what it is all about.

Heavy neutrino
Sep 16, 2007

You made a fine post for yourself. ...For a casualry, I suppose.


Voting for Kamil, please suffer for us.

GreatRedSpirit
Nov 26, 2007



If Generic Sword Dude is completely obsoleted by an old dwarf well let's roll with him!

Johnny Amadeus
Apr 1, 2011

No, El Dorado.


Just for fun, I'll throw in a vote for Olvan, as well. Quite frankly I'm interested in seeing some dwarf goings on that happen outside of a fortress scenario.

Genocyber
Jun 4, 2012

BULLSHIT
PUZZLES
A PLENTY


Esuna seems interesting.

Cornwind Evil
Dec 14, 2004


Fionordequester posted:



He may have been the 2nd best character in Elnard, but here, he is without a doubt, the worst character in the entire game.

Oh fudging HELL.

I played this years, DECADES ago, when I was an RPG junkie, and of course, not being an experimental type who wants to play a wizard or a demon, I picked this guy. After all, the warrior type is generally a good choice, right? I think I got right up to Red Pison before I quit. I found out years later that the game had been accidentally reworked into its terrible state, but only now do I realize that I made it that much harder on myself by picking the worst character.

So screw that noise. Go with Lux.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012
HI HERE WE GO HERE WE GO HERE WE GO

Cornwind Evil posted:

Oh fudging HELL.

I played this years, DECADES ago, when I was an RPG junkie, and of course, not being an experimental type who wants to play a wizard or a demon, I picked this guy. After all, the warrior type is generally a good choice, right? I think I got right up to Red Pison before I quit. I found out years later that the game had been accidentally reworked into its terrible state, but only now do I realize that I made it that much harder on myself by picking the worst character.

So screw that noise. Go with Lux.

That's not uncommon I imagine. In fact, to make matters worse, the instruction manual and Nintendo Power themselves lie to you by actually recommend using Kamil, for he is...

Instruction Manual:

A human. A warrior-type character with a good balance of offensive, defensive, and magic power along with a strong sense of justice. Most suitable for a beginner in gameplay as he doesn't possess strong individuality.


Nintendo Power:

A human with well-balanced skills, Kamil Dowanna is a good choice for the beginning player. He knows healing spells, can use most weapons, and has good speed in battle. His personality is neutral and he has a strong sense of justice. A good partner for Kamil is Valsu Saizer, who has strong values and is determined to use the Runes to eradicated evil.


Needless to say, when even the supposed "authorities" don't know what they're talking about, you know you're screwed.

Anyways, voting time will be up at the end of the day, and so far, our tally looks like this...

Lux: 7 votes
Wilme: 0 votes
Lejes: 4 votes
Esuna: 7 votes
Valsu: 0 votes
Olvan: 4 votes
Kamil: 2 votes

For those confused by how many votes there are, this Let's Play is being hosted on several different forms, though only one of those other ones (The Let's Play Forums) seems interested thus far.

Fionordequester fucked around with this message at Feb 24, 2013 around 22:33

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Lux because how many games let you play a drat robot?

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

Gentlemen, welcome to SA.

Now vote this thread 5, or pay the price of insubordination!


RabidWeasel posted:

Lux because how many games let you play a drat robot?

I hear those Mega Man games are quite popular with the kids...

Rita Repulsa
Nov 10, 2008



Kaboom Dragoon posted:

I hear those Mega Man games are quite popular with the kids...

Capcom would not agree with you there

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Lowtax


Lux, if only because he is even cooler in the much superior sequel to this game.

Seiren
Dec 30, 2007

Camping portals and using pubbies as meatshields since 2008

quote:

Sources saying Kamil is a strong beginner character; posters disagree

I'm in the minority, but I agree with these sources, because it's quite true. Oddly enough, Kamil was also the first character I played.

"Best" character doesn't always mean "best for beginners". Lux is indeed very powerful offensively and defensively; but he learns no healing. Kamil is very average. He's got decent HP, attack, magic, and defense scores. He can hit hard any way you choose to use him, and he learns healing spells. He doesn't excel, but he's an excellent "generalist" sort, doing a lot of things well, and newbies will appreciate his ability to sustain himself via magical healing.

New players are also going to get real familiar with what happens on death -- losing half of your cash can hurt real bad in some parts of the game, and if you're underlevelled or undergeared in a tough new area, they're going to find it very difficult to make any meaningful progress without being able to buy upgrades or potions. Having some form of re-usable healing that doesn't cost money is a powerful benefit that can give them the edge they need to overcome a difficult challenge.

Course, all this goes completely out the window as you make more progress, snag some runes, and get an ally.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012
HI HERE WE GO HERE WE GO HERE WE GO

Alright everyone, voting time is almost up! I'm probably going to start at some time in the afternoon tomorrow, so I'll leave it open till then, but after that, we're moving on. Here's the list of votes thus far...

Lux: 10 votes
Wilme: 0 votes
Lejes: 4 votes
Esuna: 8 votes
Valsu: 0 votes
Olvan: 4 votes
Kamil: 3 votes

So unless there's a sudden surge of voting for another character, it seems that Lux is the likely winner!

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008


Kamil vote surge go!

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

I have a special ability. The ability to remove humor out of any joke.

Here, let me demonstrate. Just look over to the right.


Esuna because I don't want it to be too easy for you, and she's the only one with a chance of beating awesome robot dude.

Reinbach
Jan 28, 2009


Kamil Show us what you can do with this game.

Eldataluta
May 31, 2012


I always liked Esuna. I remember I used to watch my dad play this game when I was a kid. I tried playing myself once, but I was six and had no idea what I was doing. I kept dying when I left the town. Anyway, I always thought Esuna was pretty great.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010

Qarth.

Esuna because the robot is boring (well, more because he was the one I beat the game with).

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!

Lux because choosing Esuna and/or Valsu makes a certain section even more ball-busting.

avlein
Jun 13, 2011


Kamil for the suffering.

Fatherwolf
Aug 2, 2012

What?


Esuna, mostly because the lp that liked in the first post was made with Lux and it was fairly good.
Between that lp and Nakar lp of this game with Wilme, we had a lot of strong beefy type. I'd like to see something new.

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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

I'M A BUTTWIZARD

AND ALSO A BOOBWIZARD COME TO THINK OF IT


Esuna

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