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Via ProFootballTalk this morning PFT posted:The Jets didn’t talk to the representatives for cornerback Darrelle Revis at the Scouting Combine, but they did talk about Revis. Obviously I’m biased, but I think that this story deserves its own thread. There has been a great deal of speculation about a potential Revis trade all offseason, and this report makes it seem likely that the Jets will at the very least pursue a deal aggressively. Darrelle Revis is without a doubt the best cornerback in football today (despite what Richard Sherman thinks), and has a very real chance to end up as one of the two or three greatest cornerbacks of all time (or the greatest). Guys like Revis don’t end up on the trade block very often. There is a lot to discuss here. What is Revis worth? Revis’ trade value is hard to gauge. In terms of his play on the field, he is one of the most valuable players in the game, and is without a doubt worth a king’s ransom. However, context is everything, and two factors in this case might drive Revis’ value down. First, and most importantly, Revis is recovering from a torn ACL that ended his 2012 season in week three. While Revis’ rehab is going spectacularly by most accounts, his return to dominance is far from guaranteed. Not everyone is Adrian Peterson, and the fact that Revis might not quite be the same player he was pre-injury will certainly keep potential suitors from ponying up full value for him. However, some teams might not be scared away by the fact that Revis might have lost a step: Revis is a cornerback whose game is not built so much on elite speed as it is pure physicality and in-depth knowledge of opposing receivers’ tendencies. Secondly, Revis is due to be a free agent after the 2013 season, and likely will request a huge contract extension. If traded, he will request that extension from whatever team trades for him. Given Revis’ history of extended holdouts and huge contract demands, some teams might shy away from a potential deal or at least reduce the value of their offers. Even with all of these factors, I would say that Revis is worth a mid-to-late first round pick and a third or fourth rounder. Why would the Jets trade Revis? The Jets have one of the least talented rosters in the NFL on the offensive side of the ball. On offense, the Jets are completely devoid of depth and have one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL in Mark Sanchez. They would likely trade Revis in order to stock up on draft picks in order to inject the offense with some (cheap) talent. Furthermore, in a season without Revis, the Jets performed admirably and once again had one of the best pass defenses in the league. The Jets front office presumably believes that the team can recreate that success without Revis in the 2013 season, even though the Jets had one of the easiest schedules in the league and had their defensive statistics inflated by a string of games against Blaine Gabbert, Ryan Lindley, and Jake Locker. Beyond this, Woody Johnson is a horrible shitlord who likely does not want to pay Revis what he is worth in the 2013 offseason. What does this say about the Jets front office? As a Jets fan, I think this is the most important aspect of this story. This report tells us a lot about how the Jets newly-renovated front office is going to operate, and it’s not pretty. It seems as though Idzik is going to report directly to Woody Johnson, which in and of itself unsurprising, but will also be willing to keep his head coach completely out of the loop on important personnel decisions. This seems unproductive. Rex Ryan has proven not to be a masterful personnel evaluator, but the head coach of a football team should at least be involved when the best player on the team is being brought up in trade discussions. It seems as though Idzik and Johnson are trying to isolate Ryan and reduce his involvement in these matters. This flies in the face of offseason theories suggesting that whatever GM the Jets hired would essentially be Ryan's stooge. So yeah, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Looks like the Jets front office is still a grade-A shitshow. So, what do you guys think about this situation? 
Professor Funk fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2013 around 15:02 |
| # ? Feb 27, 2013 14:55 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 05:15 |
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I want to die. Regarding Rex's involvement, they're getting poo poo on either way. If Rex is involved in the trade process, it's "Idzik: Rex's Puppet?" and "Rex Backstabs Revis" etc. If they keep him out it's exactly what you brought up. The unfortunate reality of the situation is that it goes far beyond playing ability and how he fits into Rex's system, which is already a known quantity. He's loving amazing in all aspects. Once that has been answered why would he need to have a say in the financial quagmire that's driving this horrible news? Got a letter from Woody the other day. Idzik and Rex will be on a STH con-call March 4th I think. That should be fun. Ozu fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2013 around 15:18 |
| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:08 |
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Who's the last good, reasonably young player who had their career crap out because of an ACL injury? I actually can't think of one.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:13 |
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sean10mm posted:Who's the last good, reasonably young player who had their career crap out because of an ACL injury? I actually can't think of one. Cadillac comes to mind, although that wasn't the only thing. Things probably aren't looking good for RG3.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:17 |
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1st rounder for a 1 year rental isn't going to happen. Sorry dude. After that you are then going to pay him Huge amounts of cash and you can do that without blowing a pick. The question becomes does a team that thinks it can contend (this year) for a Superbowl and believes a cornerback can put them over the top? Not sure, but I imagine the trade market isn't as broad as you think.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:21 |
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adaz posted:1st rounder for a 1 year rental isn't going to happen. Sorry dude. Yeah, I should've prefaced the value with "assuming he signs an extension." 
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:23 |
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Did he really say masterful personnel evaluator about Rex Ryan when he held onto Bart Scott, Shonn Greene, and Mark "loving" Sanchez?
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:24 |
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http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8994384
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:24 |
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Did he really say masterful personnel evaluator on a team that held onto Bart Scott, Shonn Greene, and Mark Sanchez? It pretty clearly says "not a masterful personnel evaluator"
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:25 |
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FizFashizzle posted:Things probably aren't looking good for RG3. He's ahead of ahead of schedule look at Peterson lalalalalalalala can't hear you.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:27 |
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sean10mm posted:Who's the last good, reasonably young player who had their career crap out because of an ACL injury? I actually can't think of one. Shawne Merriman
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:27 |
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SteelAngel2000 posted:Shawne Merriman Was it the ACL injury or just "being Shawne Merriman" that did him in?
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:28 |
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Cap breakdown by Jason over at NYJetsCap's new site. I'm still hoping this is posturing and that he'll be signed to an extension. http://overthecap.com/looking-at-th...darrelle-revis/ quote:In scenario A the Jets let Revis play out the contract this season. The Jets will absorb a $9 million dollar cap hit in 2013 for Revis’ services. From there the Jets have until the Super Bowl to work out an extension with Revis. If not extended before 4PM the day following the Super Bowl Revis contract will void. The Jets 2014 salary cap immediately takes on a $9 million dollar acceleration charge. At the best the Jets will get a third round draft pick in compensation for Revis that will be received in the 2015 NFL draft. As outlined here there is a chance they receive nothing. In terms of salary cap this means the Jets are using $18 million of cap dollars for 1 season of Darrelle Revis, knowing full well he hits free agency to test the market.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:28 |
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Professor Funk posted:Was it the ACL injury or just "being Shawne Merriman" that did him in? He tore his ACL in 2007, never got surgery, tried to play on it in 2008, then went on IR and had surgery. So both I guess?
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:31 |
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Professor Funk posted:Yeah, I should've prefaced the value with "assuming he signs an extension." Yeah but you are trading for essentially a year rental and exclusive bargaining rights. Not sure, I would say he's worth a first rounder to the right team but I just don't know how big the market is for him.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:31 |
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adaz posted:1st rounder for a 1 year rental isn't going to happen. Sorry dude. After that you are then going to pay him Huge amounts of cash and you can do that without blowing a pick. The question becomes does a team that thinks it can contend (this year) for a Superbowl and believes a cornerback can put them over the top? Not sure, but I imagine the trade market isn't as broad as you think. It's not really a one year rental. Any trade would be contingent on a new deal anyway, and the realistic options are either trade for him and sign him to silly contract or the Jets will sign him to a silly contract and keep him. I can't imagine he's very enthusiastic to play for what his deal pays him this year ($3m base, $1m roster, $1 workout) and then test free agency compared to just getting that huge extension now.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:31 |
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Professor Funk posted:It pretty clearly says "not a masterful personnel evaluator" It does, and I am an idiot.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:32 |
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Kalli posted:I can't imagine he's very enthusiastic to play for what his deal pays him this year ($3m base, $1m roster, $1 workout) and then test free agency compared to just getting that huge extension now.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:40 |
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Kalli posted:It's not really a one year rental. Any trade would be contingent on a new deal anyway, and the realistic options are either trade for him and sign him to silly contract or the Jets will sign him to a silly contract and keep him. I can't imagine he's very enthusiastic to play for what his deal pays him this year ($3m base, $1m roster, $1 workout) and then test free agency compared to just getting that huge extension now. Right, so you are trading for exclusive bargaining rights + 1 year of him instead of gambling that he will make in on to the free market where you can just dump a boatload of cash at him - the same cash you are going to have to dump on him anyway if you trade for him.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:49 |
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FizFashizzle posted:Cadillac comes to mind, although that wasn't the only thing. Cadillac Williams tore both patellar tendons. My understanding is that those were much worse injuries than an ACL tear. RG3 has multiple major injuries to the same knee, he's kind of a special (awful) case too. And he might make it anyway. SteelAngel2000 posted:He tore his ACL in 2007, never got surgery, tried to play on it in 2008, then went on IR and had surgery. So both I guess? Yeah, that's on him for being an enormous moron I think.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:55 |
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LaDarius Webb tore his ACL and then played at an extremely high level in the 2011-2012 season. Although it sucks he ended up tearing his other one against the Cowboys this past season. 
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 15:57 |
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It's hockey, not football, but Evgeni Malkin tore his ACL and had a career year, won league MVP the following year
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 16:06 |
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I don't why you guys are even buying into this narrative anyway. They're currently taking a wait and see approach and I don't see why that's not the best way to go about this. What would you rather them do? Also, isn't the source a rival AFC exec? And Revis's agents never requested a meeting at the combine. They DID meet with agents who's clients are going into free agency next season such as Dustin Keller, Shonn Greene, LaRon Landry, Austin Howard. jimmydean fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2013 around 16:38 |
| # ? Feb 27, 2013 16:31 |
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jimmydean posted:I don't why you guys are even buying into this narrative anyway. They're currently taking a wait and see approach and I don't see why that's not the best way to go about this. What would you rather them do? Certainly PFT could be wrong, but if it is true that they're talking to teams and "'actively'" shopping him then that's not exactly wait and see.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 16:47 |
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sean10mm posted:Who's the last good, reasonably young player who had their career crap out because of an ACL injury? I actually can't think of one. Marlin Jackson was becoming a very good cornerback for the Colts until he tore both his ACLs.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 16:51 |
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I generally don't trust the daily news and anonymous sources but I'll guess we'll just have to see what happens. I just haven't seen or read anything that actually indicates they are actively trying to trade him, and Idzik has stated a number of times if teams come calling, he's willing to answer for ANY player. To me that's just being pragmatic but people will spin it anyway they want.
jimmydean fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2013 around 16:59 |
| # ? Feb 27, 2013 16:56 |
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jimmydean posted:I generally don't trust the daily news and anonymous sources but I'll guess we'll just have to see what happens. I just haven't seen or read anything that actually indicates they are actively trying to trade him, and Idzik has stated a number of times if teams come calling, he's willing to answer for ANY player. To me that's just being pragmatic but people will spin it anyway they want. Well the reports from the NYDN also says that Idzik essentially avoided Revis' reps at the combine, which if true is sketchy to say the least. Also, this was Idzik approaching other teams about putting together a Revis trade, not the other way around. That sounds pretty "active" to me. But as you said, we have to wait and see.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:04 |
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Sour Diesel posted:LaDarius Webb tore his ACL and then played at an extremely high level in the 2011-2012 season. Although it sucks he ended up tearing his other one against the Cowboys this past season. Jamal Lewis did that and then two seasons later ran for over 2000 yards. So maybe Webb will have a Revis-like season in two years 
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:13 |
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sean10mm posted:RG3 has multiple major injuries to the same knee, he's kind of a special (awful) case too. And he might make it anyway. If he couldn't throw with any accuracy or wasn't a hard worker I'd be alot more worried. The athleticism is an added element but he has the skill set to run any kind of conventional passing attack effectively.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:19 |
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commy gun posted:If he couldn't throw with any accuracy or wasn't a hard worker I'd be alot more worried. The athleticism is an added element but he has the skill set to run any kind of conventional passing attack effectively. I think Daunte Culpepper would be the "knees effect more than just mobility" argument here.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:20 |
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Culpepper's injury was a lot more serious though iirc.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:22 |
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Kawalimus posted:Culpepper's injury was a lot more serious though iirc. I think they were about same level just RGIII went to world renowed surgeon and rehab specialists and Daunte went to a mall gym
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:24 |
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My thought is if they are going to trade him, at least get as many draft picks as possible. They don't need to all be first and second rounders, just get a decent number of them. Then my other thought is that no matter how many draft picks the Jets have, they will gently caress up and choose the worst players possible. So, just give Revis a goddamn check Woody. You're paying Mark "I Am Human Garbage" Sanchez how much money to run into his own teammate's butt? I don't care if Revis is missing a foot, just pay him.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:42 |
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I hope somebody updates the Jets draft blunders video soon, need Gholston and Sanchez in there.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:44 |
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Kawalimus posted:Jamal Lewis did that and then two seasons later ran for over 2000 yards. So maybe Webb will have a Revis-like season in two years Down with this. I also wouldn't mind Webb rushing for 2000 yards while being an all pro CB. ( I know what you mean  )
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:45 |
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You say that they could trade Revis for picks to bring in talent on the offensive side of the ball, but...wouldn't trading Revis create a similar talent vacuum on defense, to an extent? I know that the Jets defense was alright last year without him but a lot of those good performances were against some bad offenses, and I can't name another defensive starter on the Jets (but I'll be the first to admit that I know little about their roster). It seems like the Jets are trying to fix one problem by potentially creating another, and how often does that work?
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:46 |
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adaz posted:I think they were about same level just RGIII went to world renowed surgeon and rehab specialists and Daunte went to a mall gym Daunte was never the sharpest tool in the shed.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:48 |
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C-Euro posted:You say that they could trade Revis for picks to bring in talent on the offensive side of the ball, but...wouldn't trading Revis create a similar talent vacuum on defense, to an extent? I know that the Jets defense was alright last year without him but a lot of those good performances were against some bad offenses, and I can't name another defensive starter on the Jets (but I'll be the first to admit that I know little about their roster) They wouldn't necessarily have to use ALL the picks on offense. Some of them could probably go towards at least one or two decent defensive guys (obviously the odds of getting another Revis are slim). What I really want to see from Idzik is a complete 180 from the current strategy of "Just sign everyone we need in free agency". The Jets have had a pitifully low number of picks over the last four seasons and you cannot win in any sport just by spending money on FAs. It's going to be a pretty big culture shock to make that change and it has to start somewhere. edit: Nail Rat posted:You can in basketball! Yeah in basketball the strategy to a title is known as "Get LeBron Motherfucking James on your team." haljordan fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2013 around 18:03 |
| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:52 |
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C-Euro posted:You say that they could trade Revis for picks to bring in talent on the offensive side of the ball, but...wouldn't trading Revis create a similar talent vacuum on defense, to an extent? I know that the Jets defense was alright last year without him but a lot of those good performances were against some bad offenses, and I can't name another defensive starter on the Jets (but I'll be the first to admit that I know little about their roster). It seems like the Jets are trying to fix one problem by potentially creating another, and how often does that work? Muhammad Wilkerson/Quinton Coples are the only names you should know besides Cro. And David Harris, I guess. Ozu fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2013 around 18:00 |
| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:57 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 05:15 |
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haljordan posted:What I really want to see from Idzik is a complete 180 from the current strategy of "Just sign everyone we need in free agency". The Jets have had a pitifully low number of picks over the last four seasons and you cannot win in any sport just by spending money on FAs. You can in basketball! That's it though.
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| # ? Feb 27, 2013 17:58 |
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