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Last week I had my friend Rachel ask if she could stay with me for a bit. She had previously been living with her boyfriend in his parent's basement. However, she said that the night before she called me, his father (who she had never gotten along well with) had snapped and had some sort of PTSD-episode that ended with her locked in her car and him screaming at her from outside it. I don't really know the full details of what happened but she said she no longer felt safe living there and asked if she could stay with me. So far she's been there for one week. A few days after she moved in, she already brought up the prospect of living with me permanently and paying me a few hundred dollars rent in exchange for my spare bedroom (I live in a 2 bedroom condo). This is not something that I want to do. If nothing else, her living with me will essentially raise the amount I have to pay for utilities/internet and such so that her as a roommate would probably end up actually costing me money. So my question is how long is a reasonable amount of time to let her stay at my place? I will not be charging her anything while she is here (no rent or utilities or anything). The main thing I'm concerned about is I don't think she has anywhere else to go. She works as a manager (maybe assistant manager?) of a store in the mall so she is not making a ton of money. She moved to this area a few years ago after getting out of college in order to live with her boyfriend. As far as I can tell, all of her friends in the area are actually his friends. Many of them already don't like her and have cut off contact with her because they find her very irritating and abrasive. Also, with their apartments, I don't think any of them have room for her even they wanted to let her live there. Now that Rachel and her boyfriend aren't living together anymore, they've apparently decided to stop dating. She said it was a long time coming and that they were still very close friends but not romantic anymore. So her moving back in with him or getting a new place together won't work either. Rachel's family is from out-of-state and she doesn't consider living with them as an option since she A) doesn't want to live with them again and B) says she can't since her job is here and they are several hundred miles away. I know that none of this is my problem. Her life is her life. As far as I know, Rachel hasn't ever paid rent since graduating from college (she's now 25). When she and her boyfriend had an apartment together, he paid all the bills and when they could no longer afford that, they moved in with his family and I think she continued to not contribute anything. I moved back with my parents until I was able to afford to live on my own and so did most of my friends. It sucks, but it's something most people have to do. It's definitely time for her to start providing for herself and if she can't live in this area on her salary, then she's going to have to figure something out. It's not my duty to provide a home for her. So I'm trying to figure out what deadline to give her for when she needs to be out. She's been here a week so far. I have family coming in the beginning of May so she will definitely need to be out by then. However, I'm not sure I want her here for another two months. If anything, I'm thinking of giving her either two weeks or a month to continue staying with me. The situation might be different if she and I were closer but we're not very good friends. I'm really only letting her stay this long because I think I'm her last resort. Also, from seeing her past behavior with friends, I'm worried that if I'm too lenient or let her stay too long, she won't leave. She has a tendency to be kinda manipulative and willing to take advantage of people and while she hasn't acted this way towards me yet, I can see this ending badly. So to sum up, does it sound too harsh to tell my friend she can only stay with me for another two weeks (making three weeks total) and after that she's on her own?
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 18:55 |
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| # ? May 24, 2013 14:03 |
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Two weeks notice to find a new place to live is rough as hell. Give her a solid month from whenever you inform her that she will need to be out. A month is a far more reasonable time frame to find a new place to live and get your poo poo moved out.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:09 |
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Tell her she needs to chip in on the rent and give her a 3 month window to gtfo? Do you two get along, or is this a "worn out the welcome" situation as well?
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:12 |
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Nathilus posted:Two weeks notice to find a new place to live is rough as hell. Give her a solid month from whenever you inform her that she will need to be out. A month is a far more reasonable time frame to find a new place to live and get your poo poo moved out.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:14 |
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ThatCguy posted:Tell her she needs to chip in on the rent and give her a 3 month window to gtfo? We get along okay although I think this is mainly because I don't spend a ton of time with her. I usually only see her in group situations. Everyone I know who spends one-on-one time with her has ended up hating her.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:15 |
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Set a clear move out date early (which it is, man, tired of her already and it's only been a week?) I did the same thing you did, and the stay ended up being a little over a year, though I made the huge mistake at the beginning of saying "you can crash here 'til you get back on your feet." which I later found out just wasn't something that would happen, heh. I'd say a month or maybe two months at this point is fair, though if you want to go shorter it's completely up to you, because it's your place! Just communicate it clearly and stick to your guns. Don't do what I did and just say "yeah yeah whatever" while the frustration's bubbling up inside. It has to come out some time. For me, it ended up not being about the money at all and more about not having my damned place to myself, which is something I'd taken for granted before I had someone else living under my roof.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:17 |
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xov posted:I'd say a month or maybe two months at this point is fair, though if you want to go shorter it's completely up to you, because it's your place! Just communicate it clearly and stick to your guns. Don't do what I did and just say "yeah yeah whatever" while the frustration's bubbling up inside. It has to come out some time. I'm going to talk to her tomorrow so I want to get a firm deadline in place before I do so I can avoid all this. I want to know exactly what I'm going to say before I have to talk to her. xov posted:
And it's not so much her that I'm sick of, it's more that we were barely friends in the first place. I usually only see her a few times a year at parties. If this were one of my close friends, then it would be totally different, they could stay for months before they needed to get out.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:22 |
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Find the business-people hotels that have monthly rates in your area and present her with the prices. She has a car and a job, she doesn't have to figure out where she's going to live while she's on your couch/in your spare bedroom.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:25 |
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blackcross posted:And it's not so much her that I'm sick of, it's more that we were barely friends in the first place. I usually only see her a few times a year at parties. If this were one of my close friends, then it would be totally different, they could stay for months before they needed to get out.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:26 |
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Quixotic posted:Two weeks sounds fine to me when your actual obligation is zero weeks. Every day she stays there as a guest she is wearing out his welcome and taking advantage of his hospitality. She should already be looking/planning for a permanent place to live the moment she left the horrible situation she was in before (it sounds like she's planning to move in with the OP, a notion which needs he needs to disabuse her of immediately). It has nothing to do with obligation. It's about giving this lady enough time to move out that it won't be an undue burden.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:34 |
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 Yarr, methinks ye be exaggeratin the cost of additional utilities in a transparent attempt to find a passive aggressive excuse to bolster ye desire to not have ye friend outstay her welcome. Ye needs belay that piss-poor weaksauce attitude & wish fair winds to this lubber when it suits ye.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:34 |
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Nathilus posted:It has nothing to do with obligation. It's about giving this lady enough time to move out that it won't be an undue burden.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:39 |
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clammy posted:
 Make one typo...Okay, fine, definitely an exaggeration. From living with a roommate before, her being there would probably end up costing me an extra $100 or so in electricity.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:43 |
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Nathilus posted:It has nothing to do with obligation. It's about giving this lady enough time to move out that it won't be an undue burden. And this is my dilemma. I don't want to totally screw her over. On the other hand, she kinda forced this into becoming my responsibility and I don't want to end up living with someone I don't even know super well for months out of a sense of fairness. She told me that she and her boyfriend basically decided to split up at least a month and a half ago. Shouldn't that have been the time for her to start looking for somewhere to stay?
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:48 |
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blackcross posted:
You don't need to justify why you don't want a roommate; don't over explain, just be firm that she needs to gone in two weeks. You've already done her a huge favor (one way huger than I'd ever give someone who wasn't a very close friend), give her two weeks and stick to it. (But it it makes it easier, just lie. Tell her the family visit got moved up.)
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:53 |
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Quixotic posted:I appreciate your sense of hospitality and generosity, but the burden goes both ways here. It's not like she would be the first houseguest to overstay their welcome. True, but five weeks altogether isn't an unreasonable welcome period. If the OP was going nuts I'd suggest kicking the guest out within the week, but they both seem to have some patience for the situation left, so a month seems like a solid bet. It's not too long that it gives the impression it will become permanent, but long enough for the friend to find herself a new place to live. blackcross posted:And this is my dilemma. I don't want to totally screw her over. On the other hand, she kinda forced this into becoming my responsibility and I don't want to end up living with someone I don't even know super well for months out of a sense of fairness. Just pick a date you want her out by, make it clear, then stick to it. If you want that to be two weeks from now, so be it. Any more than a month would be asking for it, IMO. I think a month flat is just about as good as you can do in the tradeoff between fairness and the chance she will take advantage.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 19:59 |
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blackcross posted:she kinda forced this into becoming my responsibility No she didn't, you forced yourself into it by saying yes in the first place. blackcross posted:She told me that she and her boyfriend basically decided to split up at least a month and a half ago. Shouldn't that have been the time for her to start looking for somewhere to stay? Yes, and I wonder if she hadn't been looking at your place for the last month and a half. I would tell her that she has 30 days from the day you have the conversation to find a new place to live. If by day 14 you haven't seen her make any attempts, you start to nag and nag some more. If nothing happens by day 28 begin to gather her things from around the apartment and put them into boxes and put them near the front door. On day 30, you move the things to the hallway and change the locks while she's out. *edit make sure she knows this all in advance.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 20:03 |
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Three days. That is how long you have guests. You might say "That isn't even enough time to be worth unpacking" Exactly. I've lived in a number of flophouses over the years, and we never had the "guy living in house for months on end without any recompence, plan, or formal invitation to join the household" problem. Mostly because when somebody says "I need a place to stay for a couple days" you say "no problem, hell, take three days...that would be you on your way out the door on Thursday, which is cool....no, we don't have room for your drum kit, but you find the ministorage, and you can borrow the truck to move it there". How do you retards manage to do this to yourselves every week in E/N? It isn't a problem having transients, you just need to know when they are leaving before they come.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 20:15 |
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It's impossible to find a place to live in three days. That might work well for a lot of your acquaintances, and some of mine if I want to be completely honest, but if the OP truly is this lady's last resort, kicking her out that quickly might possibly end with her living in her car for weeks. Not cool. The real trick is not what you suggest, not giving them the time to settle in the first place, but in making your expectations clear from the outset and then sticking to them. Kicking someone to the street because of a surprise time limit of 3 days is an rear end in a top hat move. Doing the same thing for the two weeks or month you have been clear about is not. At that point if they haven't been looking for a place it's their bad. To be clear, I have also never had problems with unwanted house guests. I don't use any magic numbers. I am simply firm and clear with my expectations. Once I made an exception, a guy who was supposed to live with me a month ended up there for two and a half. Only reason that happened was because he specifically asked for more time three weeks in, and we were already friends beyond the level which counting debts is important. We're talking about a friend who has dropped everything to come to my aid multiple times, so I was happy to give him some extra breathing room. Once again, when he asked for more time I made it clear that because we practically owe one another our lives, another month or two would not be an issue, but if it were to go on longer than that... well, not even best friends can tolerate that kind of situation forever. He was gone two weeks before the deadline. Nathilus fucked around with this message at Mar 2, 2013 around 20:35 |
| # ? Mar 2, 2013 20:27 |
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Nathilus posted:It's impossible to find a place to live in three days. That might work well for a lot of your acquaintances, and some of mine if I want to be completely honest, but if the OP truly is this lady's last resort, kicking her out that quickly might possibly end with her living in her car for weeks. Not cool. There are gradients of friendship, you know. Three days is enough time to go through one's contacts/friends/family list and find someone willing to take you in longer-term, make an action plan, get poo poo together. It's better than nothing, and the short timeframe lights a fire under someone's rear end so they don't fall into the depression/avoidance torpor that trips a lot of people up in these kinds of crises.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 20:33 |
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clammy posted:There are gradients of friendship, you know. Three days is enough time to go through one's contacts/friends/family list and find someone willing to take you in longer-term, make an action plan, get poo poo together. It's better than nothing, and the short timeframe lights a fire under someone's rear end so they don't fall into the depression/avoidance torpor that trips a lot of people up in these kinds of crises. You make a fair point, but I still say 3 days is unreasonable. I've never been in a situation where I don't know where I'll be living next month, but I know people who have and I understand how stressful it can be. Why add wood to this poor girl's fire when she has not yet demonstrated that she won't adhere to a reasonable deadline? Furthermore, even if she WOULD be an issue and I could magically 8 ball that, I'd say she still deserves a chance at getting her poo poo together over the course of two weeks to a month. A three day deadline can always be inserted at the end of that. "Uh hey, that deadline I mentioned almost a month ago is three days away! I am serious about that, if by this point you don't have a place lined up you'd better start thinking about crashing with someone else".
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 20:43 |
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Three days is just silly. Don't even bother "helping" at that point. Christ, people are uncaring.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 20:57 |
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I agree with the pirate
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 21:09 |
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Two weeks. It's not hard to find places on craigslist.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 21:16 |
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Definitely two weeks and solid communication on a move out date - I would actually handle this over e-mail if you can so you have a written and timestamped record somewhere. It doesn't sound like she will take advantage even if she has an abrasive personality, but it's always a good idea to be prepared. Don't do what that one goon suggested either and help with price lists or whatever, if you are a part of the hunting process at all you are setting the expectation that you are accountable for how her new place ends up. You seem like you already know what to do and just need a little push from the thread. Also, you haven't covered this at all and it may not be germane to your situation but do not sleep with this person. I've seen this happen before as a rebound/easy access for both men and women displaced by relationships. Don't do it. I hope you keep us updated as your deadline ticks down!
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 21:26 |
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Keep in mind that many U.S. states have laws in place giving people partial or full tenants' rights if they have lived somewhere for a certain amount of time, even if they aren't paying rent or are considered a guest by the renter/owner. IANAL and I don't know whether this friend of yours would attempt to cause trouble by citing these laws, but you might want to look up what the time period is in your state before agreeing to let her stay any longer. You could potentially have to go through lengthy eviction procedures with her if she takes advantage of this.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 21:30 |
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blackcross posted:And it's not so much her that I'm sick of, it's more that we were barely friends in the first place. I usually only see her a few times a year at parties. If this were one of my close friends, then it would be totally different, they could stay for months before they needed to get out. Are you guys ignoring this really important bit of info or what? There's a whole business that caters to these situations and they're called hotels. Also, you don't let the person, that sounds like they can't even maintain one single friendship with anyone, invite themselves into your life. It's been a week, crisis time is over. She's doing the slow latch-on to make it harder to get rid of her. In every other one of these threads people are quick to point out how quickly someone can get tenant's rights. Tell her to take her hundred bucks, add to her next paycheck, and get to a hotel. If you don't want her to stick around, summon your best bartender/bouncer impression and inform her that it's 'closing time'. And don't feel bad about it because it's 'your house, your rules'. She's disregarding couch-surfing rules because she thinks you're a sucker.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 21:37 |
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squeegee posted:You could potentially have to go through lengthy eviction procedures with her if she takes advantage of this. Or he could throw her stuff out on the curb and change the locks and deal with the shitstorm later. I would say two weeks is reasonable for an unexpected house guest. If you really want to be charitable, give her a month but make her give you rent for it. Get something down in writing with a moveout date and make her sign it just to be sure.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 21:43 |
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Lyz posted:Or he could throw her stuff out on the curb and change the locks and deal with the shitstorm later. Well, yeah, he could, but if Rachel had gained tenant's rights by then, he would be subject to the same legal proceedings as a landlord who did this to a paying tenant. I'm guessing he would like to avoid that.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 21:46 |
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squeegee posted:Well, yeah, he could, but if Rachel had gained tenant's rights by then, he would be subject to the same legal proceedings as a landlord who did this to a paying tenant. I'm guessing he would like to avoid that. Tenants kicked out usually have some paper proof that they paid a landlord to stay at their place. People crashing at someone's place usually don't have anything.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 21:53 |
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Lyz posted:Tenants kicked out usually have some paper proof that they paid a landlord to stay at their place. People crashing at someone's place usually don't have anything. As I said, it varies from state to state, but money does not usually need to enter the equation. Simply living somewhere for a certain amount of time can give you tenant's rights similar to those of a paying tenant. This comes up in almost every SA thread about unwanted guests and can be a serious problem. It's up to the OP to research the laws in his state and decide how long he wants to risk Rachel staying, since he knows better than us whether Rachel is likely to get the law involved or if she even knows that she may have tenant's rights past a certain period.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 22:04 |
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squeegee posted:As I said, it varies from state to state, but money does not usually need to enter the equation. Simply living somewhere for a certain amount of time can give you tenant's rights similar to those of a paying tenant. This comes up in almost every SA thread about unwanted guests and can be a serious problem. It's up to the OP to research the laws in his state and decide how long he wants to risk Rachel staying, since he knows better than us whether Rachel is likely to get the law involved or if she even knows that she may have tenant's rights past a certain period. I have been seeing this come up in tons of threads - I can't seem to find a good place to research this. Any places with more info?
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 22:10 |
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I found a couple news articles from Florida about this: http://www2.tbo.com/news/business/2...e-gu-ar-255859/ http://www.sptimes.com/2004/02/17/T...in_favor_.shtml quote:"As soon as he moves into your house, that's his primary residence," said Pinellas sheriff's Detective Tim Goodman. "Is he getting mail? Is he helping pay the bills? Is his car registered at your house? He has no place else to go? If any of those is the case, that's his primary residence and if that's his primary residence, you have to go through a civil process. quote:Those who call police find that if a guest can demonstrate a home is the "primary residence" – and that may just mean the mail comes there – he or she lives there in the eyes of the law. It doesn't matter whether there is a lease or rental payments. Obviously the details outlined in those articles are Florida-specific, but the OP should try to find out what the laws are in his state.
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| # ? Mar 2, 2013 22:32 |
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squeegee posted:Keep in mind that many U.S. states have laws in place giving people partial or full tenants' rights if they have lived somewhere for a certain amount of time, even if they aren't paying rent or are considered a guest by the renter/owner. IANAL and I don't know whether this friend of yours would attempt to cause trouble by citing these laws, but you might want to look up what the time period is in your state before agreeing to let her stay any longer. You could potentially have to go through lengthy eviction procedures with her if she takes advantage of this. Thanks, this is a good point. I don't think she would be too well-versed in these laws or be willing to fight it out legally over it, but it's good to be prepared just in case. I'll also have it in writing when I talk to her tomorrow so there's no confusion about when I'm expecting her to leave.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 00:18 |
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So is this girl hot? Hot girls have an ability to find places to live really easily if they have to. Typically they find a new BF real fast, and sucker that guy into letting them move in. However, they really delay this whole process if there isn't a firm date that they have to move out. I think a very reasonable time would be a month. Make her pitch in at least the difference in utilities so it doesn't cost you anything. Surely you can deal with her for a month? That will give her time to find a new BF. And if she's hideously ugly well a month will give her time to find a hotel or a room to rent somewhere else.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 01:38 |
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blackcross posted:So far she's been there for one week. A few days after she moved in, she already brought up the prospect of living with me permanently and paying me a few hundred dollars rent in exchange for my spare bedroom (I live in a 2 bedroom condo). This is not something that I want to do. If nothing else, her living with me will essentially raise the amount I have to pay for utilities/internet and such so that her as a roommate would probably end up actually costing me money. So my question is how long is a reasonable amount of time to let her stay at my place? I will not be charging her anything while she is here (no rent or utilities or anything). This seems like a pretty poor reason not to have a housemate - As well as splitting rent in a normal share-house arrangement you also split bills, making things a lot cheaper. It's one of the main reasons why people have housemates. If you own(?) do a search around the area on how much rent is for a similar share arragements and pick something that seems equitable.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 01:50 |
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(IANAL but...) It's worth noting that Tenant's rights stuff typically has to do with being required to give notice before they can be legally removed from your property. It's also worth noting that such things are usually civil in matter, and not criminal, which generally means that the law isn't exactly black and white on this. ASAP have a talk about her move out date. Once you decide what is reasonable, Have Her Sign Something. If you're ultra paranoid, have someone else sign too that they saw everyone agree. If you're willing to risk it, a great way to start this might be 'OK, you can stay, but we need to split all the bills 50/50.' Of course, it's kind of like playing chicken.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 03:45 |
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Market rent for a roommate is a moot point if OP doesn't want a roommate. OP, she sounds more like an acquaintance than a friend, and she is not without resources (she has a job). Even if she didn't, you aren't obligated to shelter the homeless. You provided emergency shelter for a night, and that's great, but don't feel guilty about not wanting to house her long term. I think two weeks is pretty generous, actually. Especially now that you know she and boyfriend had planned to break up. Where was she going to go then? Just be prepared for a really awkward two weeks. I'm guessing she can't keep friends for a reason, and when you deny her appeal to stay with you, you're going to find out what the reason is. Any sign of anything hinky and don't hesitate to make it earlier then two weeks. And change the locks.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 03:53 |
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squeegee posted:I found a couple news articles from Florida about this: Well bless your heart.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 04:30 |
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| # ? May 24, 2013 14:03 |
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If you want to be really nice you can "negotiate" a deadline with her. As in, "I need you to have a firm timeline for getting your poo poo together and deadline for moving out. How much time do you think you'll need?" If she says "two weeks," you say, "Great, March 17th it is." If she says "Three months," you can tilt your head, frown and say, " I really don't think I can manage that. I think March 17th [or 31st to give her until the end of the month] is the best I can do." Then just be firm about that.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 05:11 |
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