|
Ever since he got hooked on smoking heroin four years ago, the pattern has been the same: He starts using drugs and alcohol a little more each week until a) he goes on a strict heroin diet and becomes a hideous skeleton, or b) he has burned so many bridges that he decides to kill himself. He has made like 8 suicide attempts but none of them were very credible in my opinion. Well after that he usually moves back to his parents out on the country side and stays sober for a couple of months. Then he moves back into the city and immediately starts binge drinking, and pretty soon he's back on the horse. He checked himself into rehab three years ago and it was the same story. I encouraged him to take a couple of courses at University this semester, as I figured that would be good both for his self esteem and for his sense of purpose. He's telling my that it's going along smoothly, but the few times I've met him this year he has been so high that I can't help but doubt that he's been getting much work done. After he got word that I was worried about him the other day, he called me up and said that he was doing fine and that I had nothing to worry about and that each time I met him was an unlucky coincidence. I asked him if he would consider seeing a psychologist that specializes in drug addiction instead of whomever he's seeing now, and he told me that no, he was not interested in that as of this moment, no. I think he trusts me more than anyone else, but I still feel like I have no chance of getting through to him. If you have any decent advice I will take it, because I am sick of watching him decay into something that is half alive.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 15:16 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2013 17:27 |
|
|
Vogler posted:I am sick of watching him decay into something that is half alive. So stop. Sometimes you have to cut people out of your life. You didn't really say whether his behaviour has been negatively affecting you (except emotionally, which it obviously is) but he sounds like a good candidate for severage. Tell him you'll be there if he really needs help getting and staying clean, but that you can't have drug addicts in your life. I know I've cut people out for far, faaaaar less and never even came close to regretting it.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 15:45 |
|
|
No, there is nothing you can do to help because this guy does not believe he needs it. He feels like everything is just hunky-loving-dory and it's YOU that has the problem. He hasn't had enough. He hasn't hit rock bottom. He sees nothing wrong with his drug use. I say you need to start backing off. He's a grown adult making his own (bad) decisions here. Just try to be there when he does have his breakthrough and tries to get help. Until then, let him go.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 16:23 |
|
|
Morby posted:I say you need to start backing off. He's a grown adult making his own (bad) decisions here. Just try to be there when he does have his breakthrough and tries to get help. Until then, let him go. No I'm good. If he hits rock bottom and decides to get clean, how do I best support him? One time after he had spent a sober three or four months on his parents' farm, he asked me if I wanted to drink beer with him and catch up on old times. I said that I did, but that if he was serious about quitting heroin he should stay off alcohol, period. He got frighteningly hostile and defensive and explained to me that a sober life in the big city was never going to happen, and that he had to enjoy life.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 16:43 |
|
|
Seems he's not interested in getting sober so I wouldn't worry about "how to help him" (you can't because he has to want to do it himself) So I guess you need to ask yourself "why do I desperately want to remain friends with an active drug addict who becomes hostile when I tell him he probably shouldn't drink?" Hummingbirds fucked around with this message at Mar 3, 2013 around 16:51 |
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 16:48 |
|
|
Hummingbirds posted:So I guess you need to ask yourself "why do I desperately want to remain friends with an active drug addict who becomes hostile when I tell him he probably shouldn't drink?" I have my reasons. Please just abandon that train of thought. I am not under any significant emotional stress, I just want my friend to not end up in a casket in the nearest future. But yes it's kind of a hopeless situation, I know.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 16:59 |
|
|
Vogler posted:No I'm good. Vogler posted:I have my reasons. Please just abandon that train of thought. I am not under any significant emotional stress, I just want my friend to not end up in a casket in the nearest future. But yes it's kind of a hopeless situation, I know. You can't save him from himself. At best, you could maybe do some sort of Intervention and get his family and other friends involved and you all chip in to send him to rehab...but what the hell would the point be if the dude doesn't want to change? He gets "frighteningly hostile" about you suggesting that he abstain from alcohol. That is not the response of someone who is objectively looking at their life and seeing they have a problem with substance abuse. You really should stay away from this guy until he straightens himself out. Unless he says "Vogler, I need help. I have a problem. Please help me complete X, Y, Z steps towards sobriety" back off. He's making his own bad choices.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:05 |
|
|
Well, OP, I don't think there's anything constructive you can do for him besides cut ties and refuse to engage with him until he cleans up his act. It's really the kindest thing you could do in these circumstances.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:07 |
|
|
Wanting the unobtainable is how your friend ended up that way. There's nothing you can do to combat someone else's addiction, aside from not enabling or empowering him towards it.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:08 |
|
|
I've tries to remain friends with people who go on those insane spirals and nothing works. He will talk to you with all the optimism in the world and how it's all going to change but it doesn't. If it ever does, it won't be because of you. Nothing in your story is unique. Your friend is not unique, you are not unique, your friendship which totally isn't like that is not unique. You will play maid forever.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:22 |
|
|
Unfortunately, for heroin, I think you have to hit rock bottom in order to find the inner strength to actually stay committed to quitting. You can genuinely want to quit and be trying hard but the poo poo is so insidious that somehow you find yourself back in that car waiting. No other drug I've been hooked on came close. I've never done meth though so I can't say how that compares. I think it takes a shock kinda situation to jolt you into that pure bullheaded determination you need to finally quit. It's hell on your friends and family to watch, and it's hard rebuilding relationships. So yeah, I think about the only thing you can do is distance yourself from the situation, hope for the best, and be there for support when (or if) that finally happens to him.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:29 |
|
|
I had a friend who was really into drugs too. Cut him completely out of my life after he keep spiraling back and turned into a nasty person. I'm not happy about it, but I don't know if there was anything else I could do.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:55 |
|
|
Call Me Abey posted:Wanting the unobtainable is how your friend ended up that way. That is true. I am not going to sever the friendship even though I am aware that it's going to end badly. Most likely it will. It is lucky for me that I am a cold and selfish person who can witness suffering without being overcome by it.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 19:53 |
|
|
Vogler posted:That is true. If you're so cold and selfish then why do you care to keep this guy in your life?
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 19:58 |
|
|
clammy posted:If you're so cold and selfish then why do you care to keep this guy in your life? Or have to look for support and advice from strangers on the internet?
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:02 |
|
|
Vogler posted:That is true. clammy posted:If you're so cold and selfish then why do you care to keep this guy in your life? GreenCard78 posted:Or have to look for support and advice from strangers on the internet? I, too, would like to know how your head is not exploding from cognitive dissonance here. I mean, you DO see that you're completely contradicting yourself right?
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:08 |
|
|
I never asked for your support. I am seeking advice because I don't want my friend to die.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:11 |
|
|
At the rate he's going, he will die and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Good thing you're cold and selfish though so his death will be no biggy.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:15 |
|
|
Two years back, I made it my life mission to help out an old childhood friend who had resurfaced in my life after an accidental run-in at the mall. I found him- someone who was once a really cool guy- completely broken, addicted to cocaine, and with a son who he'd lost custody of until he straightened up. I can't even count the number of "breakthroughs" he had during the ten months we were friends after that. Each and every time, he'd slip up and go back to snorting. I eventually cut ties with him when he said something that strongly implied he was dealing drugs and justified it by saying it was for his child support. Why did I help him? Because I cared about him. I hate to see people in pain. Unfortunately, an addict's best friend is often "that" uber-nice guy/gal who'd never judge them and wants to help them but is never mean about it. Also unfortunately, if you ever get caught with them and they have drugs on their person, guess who's going down with them? There's a reason why AA doesn't allow narcotic addicts. They very rarely ever get better unless they a.) go to jail, b.) lose everyone/everything that meant something to them, or c.) have a serious brush with death. VERY rarely. The best thing you can do for him is to keep his distance until he gets better. SlenderWhore fucked around with this message at Mar 3, 2013 around 20:19 |
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:17 |
|
|
Vogler posted:I never asked for your support. I am seeking advice because I don't want my friend to die. So do an Intervention, or just tell him if he doesn't stop using you'll cut him out of your life. Don't drink with him. Give him a list of numbers he can call to get help/rehab. If he continues to use, then cut him loose until he gets clean. There's really no other way.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:18 |
|
|
An ultimatum is worthless unless youll follow through. OP, b3 prepared for your feckless friend to cut you out of their life because you sound insufferable.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:33 |
|
|
clammy posted:Don't drink with him. That's the conventional wisdom but I am questioning it's validity. Back when I was in high school there was this new kid who was sent to forced rehab in our town. He was a huge drinker and never called it a night until he was passed out or couldn't get his hand on more alcohol. Some people in our gang strongly objected to drinking with him so we made sure he that he never knew about/was invited to any of our gatherings where there might be drinking. Of course that didn't stop him from boozing, he simply went out and got new friends. The worst kind: criminal small-town illiterate junkies. Did we really do him any favors?
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:34 |
|
|
Vogler posted:That's the conventional wisdom but I am questioning it's validity. Back when I was in high school there was this new kid who was sent to forced rehab in our town. He was a huge drinker and never called it a night until he was passed out or couldn't get his hand on more alcohol. Some people in our gang strongly objected to drinking with him so we made sure he that he never knew about/was invited to any of our gatherings where there might be drinking. Of course that didn't stop him from boozing, he simply went out and got new friends. The worst kind: criminal small-town illiterate junkies. Did we really do him any favors? I saw this trailer on fire one time, and my friends were throwing buckets of gas on it. I was like "Don't nobody throw no gas on that fire!" So my friends stopped doing that. But then, the guy towed the burning trailer across town and found some other buddies to help him throw gas on it. End result: It got burned up. So now whenever my buddies' houses are on fire I go throw gas on there.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:45 |
|
|
That's the dumbest analogy I have ever read in my life. Just think about it for five seconds and see what is wrong with it.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:50 |
|
|
Another good step you might want to take is dropping your weird hostility towards outside advice in a thread where you ask for outside advice. Honestly, man, you are just full of contradictions. You don't want to distance yourself for "reasons" but you are too "cold and selfish" to care that you're witnessing his suffering firsthand. Really it sounds like there is a significant amount of story you're hiding from us.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:51 |
|
|
Vogler posted:That's the conventional wisdom but I am questioning it's validity. Back when I was in high school there was this new kid who was sent to forced rehab in our town. He was a huge drinker and never called it a night until he was passed out or couldn't get his hand on more alcohol. Some people in our gang strongly objected to drinking with him so we made sure he that he never knew about/was invited to any of our gatherings where there might be drinking. Of course that didn't stop him from boozing, he simply went out and got new friends. The worst kind: criminal small-town illiterate junkies. Did we really do him any favors? What the hell kind of logic is this? An alcoholic (or at least a person who is abusing alcohol) is behaving badly when you guys hang out with alcohol being involved. You stop hanging out with him. He finds other friends. Guess what? HE WAS STILL ABUSING ALCOHOL WITH THOSE PEOPLE, TOO. That didn't "solve" the problem, no one was doing him any "favors". He had the opportunity for a wakeup call to say "Whoa, my friends stopped hanging out with me because I have a problem with alcohol. I should do something about this". Instead he kept drinking. I'm also gonna give you another hint: This friend that you're concerned about now? You can't give him a wakeup call. He's gonna keep using the drugs because he doesn't see that he has a problem.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:54 |
|
|
Quixotic posted:Really it sounds like there is a significant amount of story you're hiding from us. There might be, but I certainly don't feel inclined to share personal details when people seem so eager to judge. Some of the replies I've got are so needlessly brash and arrogant. There are no cut-and-dry answers in a situation like this, yet I've seen assumptions being made without any trace of humility. Edit: Morby I think you misread my post. In any case I don't understand where you're getting at. Vogler fucked around with this message at Mar 3, 2013 around 21:00 |
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:57 |
|
|
Vogler posted:That's the dumbest analogy I have ever read in my life. Just think about it for five seconds and see what is wrong with it. My analogies are fresh, tender, juicy morsels of wisdom, and you turn your nose up at them like a fickle, petulant child? I'm not even going to bother pissing in this well. Good day to you, sir.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:58 |
|
|
Vogler posted:There might be, but I certainly don't feel inclined to share personal details when people seem so eager to judge. Some of the replies I've got are so needlessly brash and arrogant. There are no cut-and-dry answers in a situation like this, yet I've seen assumptions being made without any trace of humility.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:59 |
|
|
Fine. Burn this loving rat's nest to the ground.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:02 |
|
|
Vogler posted:There might be, but I certainly don't feel inclined to share personal details when people seem so eager to judge. Some of the replies I've got are so needlessly brash and arrogant. There are no cut-and-dry answers in a situation like this, yet I've seen assumptions being made without any trace of humility. Hey, we're just reading what you're posting here. What you're posting isn't unique or wild or crazy or something we haven't heard before in real life. When people have drug problems, you can't solve it for them. You can't fix it. You can't get them to change their lives. They have to be the ones to realize that a change needs to be made and they have to be the ones to take those steps. Your friend isn't doing that. Based on what you've posted here, he has no intention of doing that. You can't fix it. Move on.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:02 |
|
|
Are you loath to cut the friendship because he is your only friend? That would make sense. Him being your only friend, lord, you sound awful. There is nothing you can do for this poor man's soul for it was sold for poo poo, useless poo poo to make you feel something that isn't there. Unless you physically (and verbally) assault him into doing otherwise, the only thing that will help him preserve is himself. EDIT: looks like i posted pretty much what everyone else did. It's going to hurt if you were close with this friend, but not nearly as much as later when you're still friends with the same soon-to-be-dead addict. And if some sort of power or fate changes in his favor and he's alive and clean, you can be there for him then. After he has decided that is what he wants. Save yourself the suffering. Android11x fucked around with this message at Mar 3, 2013 around 21:15 |
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:09 |
|
|
Have you ever done the horse?
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:11 |
|
|
Vogler posted:Fine. Burn this loving rat's nest to the ground. A hard-rear end like you should have no problems throwing up his hands at his friend and say "whatever dude, you do your thing, I'll do mine".
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:12 |
|
|
Darth123123 posted:Have you ever done the horse? Hey if he can't do heroin with your buddies they'll just find a worse crowd to do it with.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:20 |
|
|
Drug addicts sure bring out the vindictive assholes in E/N.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:23 |
|
|
Vogler posted:Fine. Burn this loving rat's nest to the ground. Cool. Now that the OP is gone, it's speculation time! 1) addicted friend is OPs gently caress buddy, and his "reasons" are easy sex. 2) OP is also a heroin user and his "reasons" are he's the person that got his friend hooked in the first place
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:26 |
|
|
You folks are monsters. Vogler, the answer is easy you just gotta shack up in a cheap hotel somewhere until your buddy kicks. It shouldn't take too long according to my sources. Then he'll be fine and you two can go march off into the sunset together. Important safety tip - wear shoes.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:33 |
|
|
cda posted:Cool. Now that the OP is gone, it's speculation time! I vote OP's friend has some sort of horrifying information on him, and he knows of he severs (or makes his friendship contingent on sobriety, which is the only thing he can do) then drug addict friend will finally sell this information for drug money. Also OP is a super right-wing congressman addicted to sex and furries. And men.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:37 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2013 17:27 |
|
|
Show your buddy the FYAD heroin thread. It's all smoothing sailing from there.
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang fucked around with this message at Mar 3, 2013 around 22:07 |
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 22:04 |
|
