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The Uberti replica of the S&W Number 3 New Model Russian. History After Russia's punishing defeat in the Crimean War, Czar Alexander II made a major push to modernize the armed forces. From this huge push the whole of Russian arms procurement and design was altered from almost complete dependence on foreign armories and design to wholly domestic design and production in about 25 or so years. The S&W No 3 New Model Russian is an interesting example of the transition during this period. The Russian Cavalry arms in the 1870's were quite behind in the times. An English observer in 1872 wrote: quote:A curved saber, a pistol issued in 1839, which no one would dare fire, and a lance for the front rank of men of all regiments, hussars, and cuirassiers included complete... the weapons possessed by Russian cavalry men. A Berdan carbine and a revolver for each man are, however, spoken of. The adoption of the revolver to the cavalry was initially slow. Most attention was being paid to the infantry and their rifle updates (more on that in a later post). However, add in greater civil unrest in the late 1860s, an assassination attempt on the Czar, and the adoption of revolvers by the rival Prussians around the same time spurred a quicker adoption. Police needs drove open the flood, and 140,333 eventually made their way to Russia. During its development, the Russians stationed in the US for arms procurement and inspection were notorious for being horrendous bastards for quality and the particular needs of the Russian cavalry. While the underlying design was based off of existing models, the "Russian" moniker is earned. A significant number of modifications, tests, grumblings, and subsequent changes underwent the Model 3 under Russian arms experts Gorolov, Ordinets and Kushekevich. Much like the "Russian Rifle" of 1868, the New Model Russian stood as its own model on its own right. Swarming over the Springfield factory, thousands of revolvers were rejected by the Russians for minutiae. Wesson immediately scrubbed the Cyrillic, restamped them in English, and sold them domestically to an eager public. They were the large frame revolver for accuracy in the late 1800s.  The .44 Russian cartridge happens to be the first internally lubricated bullet in production. It loaded 23gr of FFg blackpowder over a 246gr projectile, and lobbed it around 750ft/s. An amazingly accurate cartridge and pistol combination, the .44 Russian loaded in New Model 3's set a number of records and were used by championship target shooters such as Walter Winans and Ira Paine around the end of the 19th century. The .44 S&W Russian is the parent of the .44 Special and .44 Magnum, and can be safely fired from either. The Replica I've been looking for a proper Russian marked No.3 for a while. The only ones that sail across various forums and gunbroker are way too expensive for me. The only sub-$2000 example I've seen had broken and missing internals and no finish! Almost all of the Russian stamped contract guns went overseas and were used hard; not many found their way back to the States. Those that had command quite a premium for stodgy S&W collectors, and I can't compete with them. I eventually decided to abandon hopes for a real one and pick up a replica. Out of the few factories that make "new" No.3 revolvers, Uberti is the only one who still stamps the barrels in Cyrillic for that extra bit of panache. At least with a replica I wouldn't feel too bad about shooting it.  Fit and finish is nice. The bluing is deep and rich, but is somewhat thin and is already showing slight wear on the cylinder edge. The grips are tolerable wood and nothing to write home about. Lockup is solid and it still has the integral hammer and firing pin- no modern transfer bar. Also present is the cavalry-inspired trigger spur. While of dubious worth it definitely adds to the class. Sights are the original style, and delightfully poor compared to modern examples. There's no adjustments possible aside from gentle bending and filing- Kentucky windage is your friend here. Mine shoots slightly high and left.  I tried a few handloads. Due to the revolver's mass, I can honestly not tell the difference from a near-max load of n320 and Trail Boss. For this revolver, there's no reason not to use Trail Boss.   It is one hell of a fun revolver to shoot. I feel as though this is one of the classiest Cowboy style revolvers you could get your hands on. Trigger spur, break top, a cloud of smoke and a hilariously large chunk of lead waltzing to the target each time guarantees a grin each shot.    
DkHelmet fucked around with this message at Mar 3, 2013 around 17:39 |
| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:35 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 05:00 |
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drat that looks nice. In before the cloud of "hnnngggh top break  " posts
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:41 |
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Nice write-up! Very interesting history to the gun that I'd only learned a small part of watching History of the Gun. I've seen this antique Russian for sale on a local board for some time now: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...ghlight=russian In fact it looks like it is still available. I re-hosted the pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/4qZNa I'm not personally interested in collecting 19th century firearms but if the cheapest one you found before was $2k it makes me wonder if something is wrong with this one?
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:53 |
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Schofields are my favorite wheelgun and the New Model Russian is Schofield enough to count.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:54 |
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ZenMastaT posted:Nice write-up! Very interesting history to the gun that I'd only learned a small part of watching History of the Gun. I've seen this antique Russian for sale on a local board for some time now: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...ghlight=russian You got me excited there for a second, but it's a commercially available US marked one. The ones I'm after have the top strap stamped in Cyrillic. 
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:58 |
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So would that make it one of the ones rejected by local Russian inspectors or did they continue running off Russian models for the US public after filling their overseas contract?
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 17:59 |
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ZenMastaT posted:So would that make it one of the ones rejected by local Russian inspectors or did they continue running off Russian models for the US public after filling their overseas contract? No, they were quite popular guns in the US. You probably wouldn't be able to tell if it was a scrubbed model as it was done at the factory. The interesting part was the relentless taskmasters under Gorolov rejecting perfectly fine revolvers. Gorolov did a stint at Union Metallic Cartridge (still UMC today) where he was known for being a terrific badass on quality. Hartley, the then-president of UMC, gave "General Gorloff part of the credit for the excellence of UMC ammunition. The almost impossible degree of perfection demanded by the Russian set a standard that the company always afterward maintained." Keep in mind this is from an industrialized plant in the US, capital of modern arms engineering at the time! Russia still had no means of sophisticated domestic arms production but were valued for their design and quality standards. High praise indeed.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 18:22 |
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Very cool pistol, and loved the write up.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 19:07 |
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I want a Russian and this thread is making me consider saving for one in the near future rather than "sometime."
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 20:40 |
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I don't suppose these are floating around in .357? I always liked how they looked but I'm trying to keep ammo spread limited.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:23 |
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Capn Beeb posted:I don't suppose these are floating around in .357? I always liked how they looked but I'm trying to keep ammo spread limited. They make a variant in 38 special, but 357 would be pretty high pressure for a top-break. http://www.uberti.com/firearms/top-break.php
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:28 |
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Ahh right. I'd put .38s through it anyway, so. 
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:31 |
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Capn Beeb posted:I don't suppose these are floating around in .357? I always liked how they looked but I'm trying to keep ammo spread limited. Doesn't look like it, but there are some other in .38spl, if this is any consolation. edit : beaten like a russian conscript
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:31 |
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in other news, I'm literally the dumbest poster ever, and quote is not edit.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:32 |
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Capn Beeb posted:Ahh right. I'd put .38s through it anyway, so.   I am debating between 44 Russian and 38 special when I have the cash. Probably 38 special because I already have components and it looks cute with a 3.5" barrel.
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| # ? Mar 3, 2013 21:33 |
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Just wanted to say that after having a chance to shoot DkHelmets 44Russian, he is correct in that it generates a massive smile after shooting it. Tons of fun. Great write up!
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| # ? Mar 4, 2013 15:15 |
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I enjoy your box and its contents. As someone who finds the imperial Russian army to be hugely interesting, this really owns. I'm glad it's so much fun to shoot. I'd crossed it off my 'to-buy' list after reading from somewhere on The Internet that it was really uncomfortable. It just looks so mint.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 07:54 |
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gently caress YOUUUUUUUUUUU I ordered my Uberti Schofield No. 3 like ten loving months ago and it still hasn't arrived  Mine will be in .38 Special because I don't handload. That still rules, though 
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 08:23 |
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:I enjoy your box and its contents. As someone who finds the imperial Russian army to be hugely interesting, this really owns. I'm glad it's so much fun to shoot. I'd crossed it off my 'to-buy' list after reading from somewhere on The Internet that it was really uncomfortable. It just looks so mint. Uncomfortable? Whoever said that isn't a revolver person at all. I find these to be really great feeling. Pleasingly heavy and solid in the hand, easily grippable with or without the second finger on that loop below the trigger. A Hi Point is uncomfortable, a Russian or SAA just requires you to understand it was built for one handed shooting.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 15:03 |
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Sixgun Strumpet posted:Uncomfortable? This is the truth. This gun is very comfortable to shoot and you can almost stack the bullet holes (those sights make it kinda hard to be consistent) one handed. I have smaller hands so using the spur on the bottom of the trigger guard is necessary and it makes a world of a difference in terms of being a lot easier to handle. For people not enjoying old pistols, try shooting them one handed and for people complaining milsurp kicks too hard, get off the bench was the best advice I ever got.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 16:36 |
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king of the bongo posted:This is the truth. This gun is very comfortable to shoot and you can almost stack the bullet holes (those sights make it kinda hard to be consistent) one handed. I have smaller hands so using the spur on the bottom of the trigger guard is necessary and it makes a world of a difference in terms of being a lot easier to handle. A big part of why I enjoy old guns, and a small part of why I only want to buy real old guns as much as possible is that they can be forgiven their faults. You can enjoy them, even if they are poo poo, because that's why they aren't still around. Glocks aren't poo poo, and boring. Model 3 Russians have a myriad of flaws, but not boring. For me personally I don't really want to own reproductions because I have a harder time forgiving them their flaws. This is new drat it, it should be good.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 18:04 |
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Handgun Harlot posted:gently caress YOUUUUUUUUUUU I ordered my Uberti Schofield No. 3 like ten loving months ago and it still hasn't arrived I had to call two dozen Uberti dealers before I found one that had the mythical quality of "not loving gouging me to death" and "it'll be here sometime this decade." Apparently the backorders are flaky and good dealers can get them in quickly. I put in my deposit and had it in hand in four weeks. Sorry. If you pick one of these up, seriously consider one of those el cheapo Lee press kits and grab a bottle or two of Trail Boss. I was utterly surprised at how accurate this thing was at 50 yards with my mouse fart loads. Sixgun Strumpet posted:A big part of why I enjoy old guns, and a small part of why I only want to buy real old guns as much as possible is that they can be forgiven their faults. The first private military journal in Imperial Russia, Oruzheinyi Sbornik (Small Arms Review) said in 1891, "Generally speaking, the Smith and Wesson revolver, as many years of use have shown, is a superior military arm. But even the sun has spots and the same is true of the Smith and Wesson." And they improved it with the... Nagant 1895. Russian arms design is like a slow moving train wreck and I just can't not enjoy them. Sixgun Strumpet posted:For me personally I don't really want to own reproductions because I have a harder time forgiving them their flaws. This is new drat it, it should be good. Some of us don't make a living selling crystal meth. Anytime you want a sarcastic, goateed fat man to hang around and polish your, uh, collection, then I'm open for adoption. All I need is an allowance for ammunition. I'll even cook. 
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 03:00 |
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DkHelmet posted:I had to call two dozen Uberti dealers before I found one that had the mythical quality of "not loving gouging me to death" and "it'll be here sometime this decade." Apparently the backorders are flaky and good dealers can get them in quickly. I put in my deposit and had it in hand in four weeks. Sorry. Any time you are up in Seattle just let me know. You can also always get a hold of me at my user name all smashed together at gmale. Actually, I just did think of something. I need a vacation really badly, I haven't had one since 2011 and it's getting a bit out of hand. I was planning on possibly visiting my grandparents in Montana, but a whole two weeks there might be overstaying my welcome. I'm thinking if there are goons that don't mind a fat man with a big smug red beard showing up and hanging out I might plan a bit of a roadtrip. I'll have to verify when my grandparents are back home in Montana, but once I do that I might just make a thread to see about plotting a road trip.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 03:21 |
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So how do I actually go about cleaning mine? I've talked to both of you about this gun. I'd like to clean her up and think about maybe trying to fire it. Is there certain products to avoid or use?
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 21:37 |
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Cbear posted:So how do I actually go about cleaning mine? I've talked to both of you about this gun. I'd like to clean her up and think about maybe trying to fire it. Is there certain products to avoid or use? I'm a fan of Breakfree CLP. It seems to be safe for old finishes, and is a very mild cleaning agent, but it does seem to be a cleaning agent. On my old guns I use it with a bit more elbow grease then I might with something harsher. I usually go at my old guns with CLP, an air compressor, some old socks, qtips, and a bore snake for the bore and chambers. Nothing really special about the process, except maybe the air compressor. I like to get CLP down inside the gun, work the action a bit, then use the air compressor to blow it out. I just repeat that until the CLP is coming out clear, give it one last good blast so that most of the oil is out, and call it good.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 22:08 |
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Sixgun Strumpet posted:I'm a fan of Breakfree CLP. It seems to be safe for old finishes, and is a very mild cleaning agent, but it does seem to be a cleaning agent. On my old guns I use it with a bit more elbow grease then I might with something harsher. I usually go at my old guns with CLP, an air compressor, some old socks, qtips, and a bore snake for the bore and chambers. One thing to be careful of is that CLP can stain wood if you get careless with it. Then again, most oils have this issue. While we're on the subject of cleaning, what do you use for copper fouling sixgun? I'm looking for a new product there. I'm always wary of them because most of the really good ones tend to eat the living poo poo out of old, blued finishes if you get any on them, but on the other hand I'm also tired of dealing with how god awful slow hoppes can be at that.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 22:15 |
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Cyrano4747 posted:One thing to be careful of is that CLP can stain wood if you get careless with it. Then again, most oils have this issue. I haven't actually used anything for copper fouling. I have so many guns now, and I shoot so infrequently, that it's not become an issue.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 22:17 |
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Sixgun Strumpet posted:I haven't actually used anything for copper fouling. I have so many guns now, and I shoot so infrequently, that it's not become an issue. Hell, I've bet you've got plenty of copper in some of those bores just from past owners. But yeah, I'm mostly thinking of some of my more modern guns that I shoot quite a bit.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 22:23 |
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Cyrano4747 posted:Hell, I've bet you've got plenty of copper in some of those bores just from past owners. Oh, I am sure I do. I remember my first .44 mag redhawk had a bore that looked like it was hosed in the right light. When I got a brush in there I realized it was just caked on lead, and I ended up just brushing out a ton of lead onto a piece of paper. The thing about my collection is that I spend more time obsessing over getting more, and ensuring that they aren't degrading, then I do detailing them. The time I used to spend obsessively cleaning them I now tend to spend taking pictures. At some point along the way I am sure I will buckle down and really clean and detail all my guns, but at the moment I don't really have any plans to. It really just doesn't matter that much.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 22:33 |
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Sixgun Strumpet posted:Any time you are up in Seattle just let me know. Dude I need to go to Ennis Montana ! Lets bounce emails I'm flexible because I'm just dumping my uncles ashes
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 23:20 |
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LingcodKilla posted:Dude I need to go to Ennis Montana ! Lets bounce emails I'm flexible because I'm just dumping my uncles ashes Yep, I was thinking that. Just have to figure out what I can do on my end.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 23:30 |
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quote:A curved saber, a pistol issued in 1839, which no one would dare fire, and a lance for the front rank of men of all regiments, hussars, and cuirassiers included complete... the weapons possessed by Russian cavalry men. A Berdan carbine and a revolver for each man are, however, spoken of. I glanced at this bit from the OP again, and found myself wondering exactly what they were referring to, and found a pretty informative page: http://www.russianrevolvers.com/rp1...ssack%20Trooper  I do so love the old horse-pistols.
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| # ? Apr 1, 2013 04:30 |
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:
Explains the Mosin aesthetic. I want one.
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| # ? Apr 1, 2013 14:43 |
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Cbear posted:So how do I actually go about cleaning mine? I've talked to both of you about this gun. I'd like to clean her up and think about maybe trying to fire it. Is there certain products to avoid or use? Yeah, CLP or just plain ATF or motor oil would be my go-to. Nothing harsh. I might be tempted to try Cyrano's PB Blaster trick, or perhaps Kroil, down the barrel to knock off any stubborn goop. If the barrel was significantly leaded I'd be thinking about corking the breech and being stupendously careful with modern solvents. Still, get it checked by a gunsmith before firing. And no modern powders! Black powder only. TapTheForwardAssist posted:I glanced at this bit from the OP again, and found myself wondering exactly what they were referring to, and found a pretty informative page: http://www.russianrevolvers.com/rp1...ssack%20Trooper Mmmmmmm...... However, the possibility of finding one in the US is essentially zero. That, right there, is the reason why I get such a kick out of Russian armament. Here you are in the late 1870s, sitting on a horse, and you've got your trusty 50 year old flintlock tucked in your belt, a saber, and a goddamn lance. Meanwhile your neighbors are adopting pinfire rifles, brass cartridges, and breechloading arms. And the aforementioned neighbors kicked your teeth in a few years earlier. I'd poo poo myself. It'd like being on the front lines invading, say, China in 2013 armed with a Garand and a Ka-Bar.
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| # ? Apr 1, 2013 15:19 |
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DkHelmet posted:...It'd like being on the front lines invading, say, China in 2013 armed with a Garand and a Ka-Bar. Someone needs to make this movie 
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| # ? Apr 1, 2013 16:41 |
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DkHelmet posted:It'd like being on the front lines invading, say, China in 2013 armed with a Garand and a Ka-Bar. I'm imagining it is exactly only one person doing this, and the Ka-Bar is held in the teeth.
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| # ? Apr 2, 2013 04:42 |
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My local shop finally, finally got a call saying that the Schofield Model 3 I ordered back in like August? is going to be ready in a couple weeks.  e: what the hell is with this av, I haven't posted in the SIG thread in like a month 
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| # ? May 1, 2013 05:27 |
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You will enjoy. I found out two things about my Schoefield. The HKS 29-M speedloader definitely fits. And using it for timed matches is awesome. All of the high speed gun gamers will be using trigger spurs this year.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsEiWf72D-8
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| # ? May 5, 2013 14:20 |
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DkHelmet posted:You will enjoy. That looks like one of the most fun things in the world to do.
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| # ? May 5, 2013 15:52 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 05:00 |
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Awesome. Are you in pretty good with your club so that they're ok with you using non standard guns like that without a holster? Actually what the hell man, why not get a holster for it?
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| # ? May 6, 2013 09:00 |
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