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Vivoviparous posted:Anyway kudos to the History Channel for finally putting some effort into something. This is the second thing of very good quality I've seen them put out recently http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1985443/
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Mar 9, 2013 09:01
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Does anyone else get Charlie Hunham(Jax from Sons of Anarchy) vibes off the main character? He looks like him and seems to have similar mannerisms minus the extreme bro walking.
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Mar 9, 2013 09:35
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It's just Viking blood, that's how we roll. Charlie Hunham is from Newcastle.... old viking blood on the Tyne
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Mar 9, 2013 13:06
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doctor 7 posted:For the people here who have studied Viking history is there a good solid text or something of that nature that's worth picking up? By good I mean from a Viking perspective of the culture not "they were just blood-thirsty slobs". Bloodtaking and Peacemaking: Feud, Law, and Society in Saga Iceland is a great one. It may be a little much for a start, but its big focus is on the intersection of law, family, and the societal pressures those two things created. Now the exact nature of Iceland's relationship to the mainland's politics is disputed but most of the social institutions were very similar since they were the same people, jsut fleeing increasing centralization of power, and had a great deal of continued contact. They also happen to have had a very complete law code which has made studying them very interesting and enlightening. The Vikings had a thing of setting up republics (Iceland, the Isle of Man, and Jämtland spring to mind) with codified laws and truly fascinating social structures. Reading the sagas themselves is also very worthwhile, as it paints the picture of the culture as perceived by the vikings themselves. They're also really good reads independent of that a lot of the time, full of blood, honour, and larger than life figures.
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Mar 9, 2013 13:30
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I had this book on my wishlist for a long time and this show prodded me to finally get it http://www.amazon.com/Ships-Review-Books-Classics-ebook/dp/B003WUYOP2/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1362842980&sr=8-1 It's pretty good so far. I'm only 25% in and all sorts of crazy poo poo has happened. Not necessarily battles but Red Orm's adventures take him far and wide I'll say that.
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Mar 9, 2013 16:30
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etalian posted:Yeah it's pretty much historical fact they made it to Canada "Vinland" but never created permanent colonies due to being on the losing side of disagreements with the Native americans. Granted, they were probably STARVING by the time they got there, but American Indians kicked the poo poo out of Vikings? That's pretty badass!
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Mar 9, 2013 16:57
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DoggPickle posted:Granted, they were probably STARVING by the time they got there, but American Indians kicked the poo poo out of Vikings? That's pretty badass! According to what I've read of accounts there the Vikings that tried to settle there initiated a trade with the locals and when the Indians came into their encampment they snatched a bunch of poo poo off the ground and ran out. The Vikings showed them a red shield which apparently means we're going to gently caress you up and fought with them. After that I think they left because it would have been relatively impossible to establish a permanent settlement with hostile locals while being several thousand miles from home. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorfinn_Karlsefni This apparently is the guy who attempted it.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:10
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BlazinLow305 posted:Does anyone else get Charlie Hunham(Jax from Sons of Anarchy) vibes off the main character? He looks like him and seems to have similar mannerisms minus the extreme bro walking. Yes! I was just thinking this last night.
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Mar 10, 2013 00:16
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YouTuber posted:According to what I've read of accounts there the Vikings that tried to settle there initiated a trade with the locals and when the Indians came into their encampment they snatched a bunch of poo poo off the ground and ran out. The Vikings showed them a red shield which apparently means we're going to gently caress you up and fought with them. After that I think they left because it would have been relatively impossible to establish a permanent settlement with hostile locals while being several thousand miles from home. So absolutely interesting - the weird interactions and miscommunications that happen with two completely alien cultures. Not like they had a universal translator. They may as well have been AlIENS. Look weird, speak weird, have weird stuff, do weird things. What's that weird spacecraft that just landed? The first unknowing people to see a plane must have poo poo themselves.
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Mar 10, 2013 05:24
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DoggPickle posted:The first unknowing people to see a plane must have poo poo themselves. Go look up cargo cults for some info on that.
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Mar 10, 2013 18:24
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Just watched episode 2 - I'm glad the writers didn't shy away from the fact that Viking raids were basically straight up theft and mass murder parties. The careless way the defenseless priests were massacred was both shocking and a sober reminder that there's little to celebrate or revere about that aspect of their culture.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:53
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I really liked the small touch of using Old English with subtitles for the first few lines with the friars and then switching to more understandable English, just like with the Vikings. The Earl's a bit too cookie-cutter villainous for me so far. Hopefully they add some more depth to him and his wife.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:26
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I agree - it makes no real sense that the Earl would oppose some of his men sailing west to this degree. I mean yeah I get that it's a challenge to his authority but murdering a skilled worker like a blacksmith just because he made an anchor for a guy? Hopefully the writers fill in the details of why the Earl hates the protagonist so much because right now it just seems dumb.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:35
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doctor 7 posted:For the people here who have studied Viking history is there a good solid text or something of that nature that's worth picking up? By good I mean from a Viking perspective of the culture not "they were just blood-thirsty slobs". Here's a good start: Bloodtaking and Peacemaking: Feud, Law, and Society in Saga Iceland - William Ian Miller The Viking World - Stefan Brink Norse Mythology: A Guide to Gods, Heroes, Rituals, and Beliefs - John Lindow
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Mar 11, 2013 04:54
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Why is the earl so opposed to Ragnar going west? Why is the earl murdering everyone who's ever met him? 
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Mar 11, 2013 05:04
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I take it this way: the earl is a business man and a chieftain all rolled into one. Part of his success is leading his people and providing for them. If he backs a mission to the West, and everyone dies at sea...the whole community is dealt a very harsh blow in very uncertain times. By keeping to what he knows, raiding the east, there may not be much, but there is something. Same why managers don't listen to the guy with the next big thing, even if it turns out to be the iPod or whatever. They've made it to the top doing exactly this and it's worked alright so far. Also, he owns the ships and he feels he can say where they go or not. He probably outfits them with supplies and underwrites the whole undertaking. It'd be like taking a company car out for something you decide is a better idea instead, but instead of driving to Peoria, you may be driving off the face of the Earth.
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Mar 11, 2013 05:14
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Agustin Cienfuegos posted:Also, he owns the ships and he feels he can say where they go or not. He probably outfits them with supplies and underwrites the whole undertaking. It'd be like taking a company car out for something you decide is a better idea instead, but instead of driving to Peoria, you may be driving off the face of the Earth. Didn't Ragnar have his own ship built for just that reason? So he wouldn't be sailing off the face of the Earth with one of the jarl's ships? Although he did get a bunch of dudes who were also presumably sworn to the jarl, so I can see why he'd be angry about that. Still, I don't really understand the killing of the blacksmith. If Ragnar wants to buy an anchor for his self-financed boat, I don't see how that's so big a deal that you need to kill a guy who provides a necessary service in your small medieval village. I guess it's the "I told this guy not to do something, if he does it then that's undermining my authority I'M THE JARL DAMMIT." Moose King fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 05:32
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True but Ragnar isn't using the earl's boats and from what I gather, not really using the earl's men either. I mean I know viking society isn't egalitarian by any means but it's not like raiding a different direction really merits the death sentence for anyone who participates or even sells them goods. It makes no sense that the blacksmith would be murdered but the earl doesn't do anything to Ragnar's wife and children. If he's really such an outlaw why not just threaten to harm Ragnar's family and be done with it?
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Mar 11, 2013 05:33
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I think a bit of dramatic license is key really, but people are really petty sometimes. Maybe the earl was dissed by Ragnar's mom or something. It's definately set-up for Ragnar to come back and challenge the earl for, well, the earldom. And I think the main motivation for the earl at this point is "I AM THE LAW" type of thing and to be crossed is to show your weakness.
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Mar 11, 2013 05:37
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Unzip and Attack posted:True but Ragnar isn't using the earl's boats and from what I gather, not really using the earl's men either. I mean I know viking society isn't egalitarian by any means but it's not like raiding a different direction really merits the death sentence for anyone who participates or even sells them goods. It makes no sense that the blacksmith would be murdered but the earl doesn't do anything to Ragnar's wife and children. If he's really such an outlaw why not just threaten to harm Ragnar's family and be done with it? Ragnar clearly has enough friends that if the Jarl threatened Ragnar's family he wouldn't have a head much longer. Notice how he's doing all this crap while Ragnar and his loyal followers are away raiding.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:36
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The Jarl killing the blacksmith sort of makes sense if you look at it this way: it isn't what the blacksmith did so much as his attempts to lie and hide it. Both the Jarl and his wife seem to feel they are surrounded by enemies and unable to trust anyone. Whether this is merely paranoia or not the Jarl seems to view it as justification for killing anyone who is not completely trustworthy. I had a similar problem understanding it when he killed his spy, seeing as how he basically baited the guy into his 'betrayal'. The only way I can make sense of it is he kills anyone who isn't completely on his side or who shows signs of deception or disloyalty. Perhaps if the blacksmith had immediately admitted to selling the anchor he would have been left alone. On the other hand, it still seems pretty excessive to kill the smith, especially considering how valuable such a profession would have been in that time.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:28
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Would the Jarl have friends in other towns / does he answer to someone else? I don't really know much about Viking society, but presumably he must have some great wealth/power in order to remain in charge or wouldn't someone just overthrow him, as Vikings seem to pretty much just take what they want assuming they're strong enough. Really enjoyed the second episode. Can't wait to see them discover some more civilisations  Those poor priests though, difficult to imagine what it must be like seeing a big boat like that turn up out of the blue and seeing it as some apocalyptic religious prophecy come true. The Vikings' reactions to them having no guards or protection really sums up the difference in cultures.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:30
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Bloodbath posted:Really enjoyed the second episode. Can't wait to see them discover some more civilisations The monks even had prayer for keeping the Norsemen away, "From the fury of the Norsemen deliver us". The Vikings were a terrifying force due to their ability to launch quick surprise raids which gave their victims no warning. The motivations for raiding were financial and also the Viking obsession with building a good military reputation. BBC has a amusing short viking raid choose your own adventure type game: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/vikings/launch_gms_viking_quest.shtml
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Mar 11, 2013 14:46
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Unzip and Attack posted:Just watched episode 2 - I'm glad the writers didn't shy away from the fact that Viking raids were basically straight up theft and mass murder parties. The careless way the defenseless priests were massacred was both shocking and a sober reminder that there's little to celebrate or revere about that aspect of their culture. I liked how mundane it all felt up until the almost-casual way of slaughter, slowly walking to the gates, using a chisel to unhinge them. I don't even understand why they felt the need to slaughter the priests who did no more than lock the gate for their resistance.
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Mar 11, 2013 18:53
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Unzip and Attack posted:Just watched episode 2 - I'm glad the writers didn't shy away from the fact that Viking raids were basically straight up theft and mass murder parties. The careless way the defenseless priests were massacred was both shocking and a sober reminder that there's little to celebrate or revere about that aspect of their culture. Theft, rape and murder was pretty par for the course back then, the primary reason the Vikings were vilified was that they didn't give two shits if the people they attacked were Christian.
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Mar 11, 2013 19:22
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pretty sure they relished in it.
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Mar 11, 2013 19:25
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PlushCow posted:I liked how mundane it all felt up until the almost-casual way of slaughter, slowly walking to the gates, using a chisel to unhinge them. I don't even understand why they felt the need to slaughter the priests who did no more than lock the gate for their resistance. Viking raids could be pretty bloody but more often than not they tend to have more common with a quick smash&grab job mainly to carry off loot/capturing slaves. On the higher level the bad behavior by the Vikings provided lots of incentive to pay out protection money rather than endure another year of fear or in the case of France bribing them with lands as another solution to the problem.
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Mar 11, 2013 19:30
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Rocksicles posted:pretty sure they relished in it. They weren't particularly more violent or barbaric than anyone else at the time. They were efficient raiders and good fighters when they needed to be. Viking strategy was generally to get in, kill anyone who resisted, but mostly to loot as much and grab as many slaves as you could and get out before more organized resistance showed up. Fear and intimidation was used to coerce people into just giving them tribute so that they didn't have to raid. Part of the reason most people tend to think of vikings as bloodthirsty barbarians is that almost every contemporary source about them was written by non-Scandinavian Christians (or even Muslims) and as such there exists a very strong chance of bias. Were they good guys? No probably not, they raided and killed, sold people into slavery, etc. But that isn't much different than what anyone at the time was doing and that doesn't mean they relished in killing people. Probably the opposite, because if you're wiping out populations and burning villages you can't raid them again later.
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Mar 11, 2013 21:11
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saganite posted:Theft, rape and murder was pretty par for the course back then, the primary reason the Vikings were vilified was that they didn't give two shits if the people they attacked were Christian. I don't disagree with you that their paganism probably had a lot to do with it but also remember that it was fairly rare for typical raiders to actually engage in mass murder. As someone else stated, raiding was primarily a financial act and if one murders all those who produce the looted goods, he's basically shot himself in the foot if he ever wants to come back and steal some more. That being said, Vikings/Danes in particular were known to engage in this sort of slaughter due to the distances involved in their voyages and the slim likelihood that they would ever return to a place once looted.
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Mar 11, 2013 21:13
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etalian posted:BBC has a amusing short viking raid choose your own adventure type game: This was quick and fun, and it actually matches what has been happening in the series so far very well. I'm a terrible viking apparently, I'm sure my ancestors are rolling in their graves.
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Mar 11, 2013 21:23
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yeah mine too... least i'm not christian.
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Mar 11, 2013 21:25
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etalian posted:...or in the case of France bribing them with lands as another solution to the problem. Normans! 
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Mar 11, 2013 21:42
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Admiral Goodenough posted:This was quick and fun, and it actually matches what has been happening in the series so far very well. I'm a terrible viking apparently, I'm sure my ancestors are rolling in their graves. Off to the cod boat for you as punishment for being a bad Viking. Unzip and Attack posted:I don't disagree with you that their paganism probably had a lot to do with it but also remember that it was fairly rare for typical raiders to actually engage in mass murder. As someone else stated, raiding was primarily a financial act and if one murders all those who produce the looted goods, he's basically shot himself in the foot if he ever wants to come back and steal some more. That being said, Vikings/Danes in particular were known to engage in this sort of slaughter due to the distances involved in their voyages and the slim likelihood that they would ever return to a place once looted. Yeah the raids could be bloody but Vikings also liked to return to the same fishing hole the next year. So killing the golden goose was a good plan or rather extorted to prevent future visits from the Vikings. The Danegeld protection money alone was pretty impressive with the famous king Aethelred the Unready being forced to pay 36,000 pounds of silver one year and 48,000 pounds silver a few year later. So it was a messed up sort of Spring Break trip that provided young Vikings with big loot benefits and also the chance to build the reputation as a successful leader. etalian fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 21:46
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This show makes me want to marathon through the Northlanders graphic novels and pick up a book on Old Norse.
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Mar 11, 2013 22:18
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Loomer posted:most tellingly, the writings of John Wollincombe where he records that the Vikings combed their hair every day, bathed weekly, and changed their clothes often - which was so unusual that it made them immensely more attractive to the English women than the local Anglo-Saxons. Link? Mr. Wollincombe seems surprisingly ungoogleable.
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Mar 11, 2013 22:26
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Loomer posted:...it was called the Thing. What do you want them to call it? Hell, Iceland's parliament is still known as the Althing, and the Danes have the Folketing, or 'People's Thing', for theirs. And Norway's is Stortinget, 'the big thing'. Sweden's the odd man out really 
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Mar 11, 2013 22:29
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feedmegin posted:And Norway's is Stortinget, 'the big thing'. Sweden's the odd man out really We have several Landsting, county councils.
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Mar 11, 2013 22:46
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Anti-Hero posted:This show makes me want to marathon through the Northlanders graphic novels and pick up a book on Old Norse. http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/norol-0-X.html feedmegin posted:Link? Mr. Wollincombe seems surprisingly ungoogleable. Name taken from a website. I'll check my actual books since the lack of google hits is worrisome, though I think a couple explicitly reference and cite the claimed text. The site probably just has the wrong name. Also, there's the part where he's a 9th Century Bishop, so he won't have a huge presence online.
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Mar 12, 2013 00:45
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PlushCow posted:I liked how mundane it all felt up until the almost-casual way of slaughter, slowly walking to the gates, using a chisel to unhinge them. I don't even understand why they felt the need to slaughter the priests who did no more than lock the gate for their resistance. It was a great scene since it didn't go the standard route of showing the vikings as crazy barbarians running around with torches and killing people in berserk frenzies. It was actually more disturbing how they methodically and efficiently killed off all the monks after breaking down the gate.
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Mar 12, 2013 01:12
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Anti-Hero posted:This show makes me want to marathon through the Northlanders graphic novels and pick up a book on Old Norse. Hmmmm, contrarily, this show makes me want to bone a Northman
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Mar 12, 2013 01:50
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