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I haven't heard from my best friend John in almost 3 years now. Partly this is because he doesn't want to be found (which I'll explain later) and partly I think because maybe he's tried to start a new life. Our background as friends John and I were merely aquaintences through middle school and most of high school. At the end of my junior year in high school, my stepbrother (one of John's friends) was killed in an automobile accident. I was extremely upset naturally, and John took it upon himself to check on me and make sure I was doing okay. He was a pretty great guy, and by coincidence he and I were both very good in school and were both awarded an internship over the summer at a local factory. We became great friends over the summer, and did stupid things like make homemade smoke bombs that melted my car door, and hit up local places to meet up with women. In the end we became pretty much best friends in our senior year in high school. We would skip class together, go out drinking together, and get in trouble together. In the end though, we'd always back each other up. After a party at my parent's house, I was left the next day to pick up the trash before they got home. John drove back by my house to check on me and helped me clean everything up. Through it all, we still maintained straight As in school. During my first marriage, John would talk to me about different problems I had and give me advice. More importantly he would be supportive even if I was doing something dumb. We'd hang out with a group of friends pretty much every weekend, drinking, grilling, and otherwise having a blast. We were the type of friends who would find stupid poo poo to do and end up in random places (Casinos, drinking, etc.) on a whim. He was pretty much like Bradley Cooper's character on the Hangover and I was more like the dentist who kept finding more and more things about his life getting hosed up. Anyway, in the summer of 2001 he joined the Marine Corps. He trained in Force Recon, and he spent the first 2 years practically training. When he was in town, our friendship continued like it had before. I was the first person he'd call when he was in town and I'd hang out with him every chance I got. In mid-2004 he got word that he was going to be in Iraq for a year. He married a very controlling diagnosed Borderline girl before heading over there. He was shot in the chest on his first patrol by a sniper. His body armor protected him, but half of his squad was killed by an IED minutes later. He was in Fallujah during the heaviest fighting, and was in the thick of things during most of his deployment. He came back in 2005, and continued his college education. He seemed kind of worn down though. He showed me videos of clearing houses consisting of people taking pot shots at them from a building, calling in an airstrike and bombing the building to hell, and then going in to verify the dead. He was a bit shaken up by all of this. He finished his college degree and was able to accept a commission in the Navy as a LTJG along with his wife who joined up (she was already a nurse) right before his unit was set to go back, so he was spared another tour. He was the best man at my wedding in 2006. By this time however, the relationship with his wife had turned sour. He came back from Iraq a changed person - but I know well with experience how someone with BPD knows how to take the biggest insecurities you have about yourself and turn them against you. He didn't seem to be able to take a piss without her permission. He seemed utterly depressed and she was overbearing, manipulative, and controlling toward him. If he left a room, she was get this look on her face and tell you the most hateful things about him - and she'd stop and smile when he walked back inside. She'd do the same thing to anybody she thought was out of earshot, including me. Now they had plans to move to Virginia, and bought a house there. I didn't hear much until my daughter was born in 2008. I got a congratulatory phone call from him while I was in the hospital, and he confided in me that he was planning to divorce his wife. He wasn't doing it directly though. He was having a lawyer serve her with paperwork once he was on a plane bound to Cuba because he was so terrified of her. After that I didn't hear from him for 6 months to a year. When I did I got stories about how he was in AA meetings to deal with alcoholism from depression. He told me he had been suicidal at one point, and now he was dealing with the possibility of being thrown out of the Navy because he was being charged with "Conduct Unbecoming an Officer" due to his wife accusing him of surprise sex, and about 50 other things. Meanwhile, a mutual friend of ours who was renting his house in Alabama from him talked of getting threats from her family regarding the house that he was renting. His divorce was long, brutal, and even though his wife disavowed her claims of surprise sex, etc. he was still dishonorably discharged/whatever the equivalent it is for an officer. She immediately took him back to court over petty things like a $500 table, or other items from their house. He took a vacation to Ireland, came back and told me of crazy things his ex was doing to try and screw with his life, and how he was terrified of her. Ultimately he went off the grid. His parents refused to give out his contact information. His Myspace went offline. His Facebook went offline. His emails went offline. He went completely off the grid, and I have no way of contacting him except attempting to relay messages through his parents. When I first met him, he was one of the most grounded people I know and seemed strong and willful in spirit, even though he got in some trouble periodically. The last time I spoke to him, he seemed like a broken man who was not far from collapse mentally. I don't even know how to find him... the last thing I can find about him online is when he renewed his nursing license in Virginia, so I assume he is still there. But all his landlines, cell phone, etc. have been disconnected. He has no online presence whatsoever. I want my friend back... but I'm not even sure if he is the same person. But he was always there for me, and I feel like it is my obligation to be there for him if he needs me. Thus far, he hasn't reached out. I don't know how to get in touch with him. So... what do I do? This is something that nags at the back of my mind at least weekly.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 19:07 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 14:46 |
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There's very little you can do in this situation. If he doesn't want to be found, you're not going to find him. I've had some good friends disappear in similar circumstances (minus the insane ex-wife, but definitely with the emotional trauma). When this happens they just tend to stay gone from your life. A few times I tried to reconnect with a couple of old friends and what I found is that they just weren't the same people any more and it feels strange to talk to them. If he wanted to talk to you, you'd know. But you shouldn't take it personally that you're not hearing from him. People's lives get complicated, especially when they have to deal with heavy poo poo like this. Sometimes things just get lost. That's life. People move on from one another. It's sad, but there's not much you can do about it.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 19:18 |
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CPL593H posted:There's very little you can do in this situation. If he doesn't want to be found, you're not going to find him. I've had some good friends disappear in similar circumstances (minus the insane ex-wife, but definitely with the emotional trauma). When this happens they just tend to stay gone from your life. A few times I tried to reconnect with a couple of old friends and what I found is that they just weren't the same people any more and it feels strange to talk to them. If he wanted to talk to you, you'd know. But you shouldn't take it personally that you're not hearing from him. People's lives get complicated, especially when they have to deal with heavy poo poo like this. Sometimes things just get lost. That's life. People move on from one another. It's sad, but there's not much you can do about it. I guess what really bothers me about it is that there is no closure or reason. During his previous disappearing spells, he would just drop off the grid randomly and then you'd get an email from him six months later saying "Hey man, let me fill you in on what's happening." There have been about 2 other times where he would disappear for short term (3-6 months) but he would always pop back up unexpectedly. Then he'd act as if nothing had changed and just allude to the hosed up things in his head/life. Sadly I think you are right though. Next time I am in town I may stop by his parent's house to leave him a note. But as-is, they tend to support him in remaining secret and don't really seem to care if he keeps touch with his old friends.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 19:22 |
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Honestly the advice here is no different than the relationship thread, real closure doesn't exist, you miss a memory not the person , etc. Move on.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 19:27 |
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Did he change his name? Is there really no way to Google him or find him on a nurse register or something?312 posted:Honestly the advice here is no different than the relationship thread, real closure doesn't exist, you miss a memory not the person , etc. Move on. What does this even mean? By this logic nobody is a person to you, just an assortment of memories. I'm pretty sure you can miss both memories and a person dude. OP isn't even looking for closure in particular, he wants to reconnect with his friend.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 19:45 |
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Jeza posted:Did he change his name? Is there really no way to Google him or find him on a nurse register or something? The only things I've found via Google are prior releases from navy.mil about his promotions, and I've found his old addresses/phone numbers. I use pipl.com a lot also, and can find literally nothing. His old Myspace was deleted, along with his Facebook a while back. It seems like whenever something does show up under a Google search, he finds out about it and deletes it, so you get a lot of "This profile does not exist" errors. At one point I saw his name listed at a hospital as updating his certifications/credentials or something. But otherwise, nothing. It seems like he is trying very hard to eliminate any way to find him, most likely due to his fear of his ex-wife, because even after their divorce she continued legal proceedings over everything from "Who should have the pots & pans" to "Who gets the lawnmower" etc. long after the divorce was "final." She would just use her money to go to court over petty things.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 19:49 |
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Jeza posted:
LLJKSiLk posted:I guess what really bothers me about it is that there is no closure or reason. Again I don't know how else to spell it out, the OP is in search of what many people in the relationship breakup thread are searching for and the advice is similar. After 3 years, yes you are missing a memory, that person doesn't really exist anymore, and if they did, they would want to reconnect with the OP. They don't. LLJKSiLk posted:The only things I've found via Google are prior releases from navy.mil about his promotions, and I've found his old addresses/phone numbers. OK dude he doesn't want to be found, I'd examine why you can't drop it after so long. 312 fucked around with this message at Mar 5, 2013 around 19:59 |
| # ? Mar 5, 2013 19:56 |
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312 posted:Again I don't know how else to spell it out, the OP is in search of what many people in the relationship breakup thread are searching for and the advice is similar. After 3 years, yes you are missing a memory, that person doesn't really exist anymore, and if they did, they would want to reconnect with the OP. They don't. Leave them alone. Our circle of friends has kind of moved off in different directions. One friend was renting his house from him, and began dealing with John's parents as middlemen because he went off the grid and would only talk through them it seemed like. This was around the same time that he went from "Hey man let's plan a motorcycle trip" to "The number you are trying to call has been disconnected." I want to reconnect with my friend, but my own email, phone numbers, etc. have changed multiple times - so if he wants to reconnect without using social media (that he seems to have taken an aversion to) it would be more difficult for him to do so. I just sent his sister a friend request on Facebook and asked if she could pass along my number. My life is drastically different after 3 years as well, but I'd still welcome the guy I asked to be my best man and a close friend of over a decade back into my life. 312 posted:OK dude he doesn't want to be found, I'd examine why you can't drop it after so long. That was kind of the point of the OP. He and I had been friends over a decade, he was the best man at my wedding, and the circumstances of his "disappearance" were obviously under duress and not entirely what I would consider his fault. I sincerely doubt someone can go from talking to you on the phone to "the number you have called is not in service" without a good reason, so I don't exactly judge him for it. I just hope he's okay, because he was an important part of my life and I don't see anything wrong with not going "BLEEP BLOOP, END BEST FRIEND SUBROUTINE, BLEEP BLOOP, STAIRS ROBOT" and being concerned about him. LLJKSiLk fucked around with this message at Mar 5, 2013 around 20:05 |
| # ? Mar 5, 2013 20:01 |
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He may be avoiding you to keep you safe, too. You've mentioned that your other friend was renting his house and got threats from the wife's crazy family.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 20:10 |
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LLJKSiLk posted:Next time I am in town I may stop by his parent's house to leave him a note. But as-is, they tend to support him in remaining secret and don't really seem to care if he keeps touch with his old friends. Either Oral Slither's right, and he's doing this to keep you safe as well, or the parents are being pretty short-sighted here.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 20:16 |
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Riot Food posted:This is the bit that doesn't make sense to me. If I had a son who had essentially been forced underground to avoid a psycho ex-wife, I'd want him to keep in touch with people I knew he trusted and cared for, so he didn't feel so alone and distressed and therefore more likely to do something drastic. The guy's been forced to essentially erase his past life, the last thing you want him to do is sever every emotional connection he's ever had. His parents are very overprotective and always have been. His father stockpiles guns, pays for everything in cash, and believes the government is out to get him. Despite that, John seemed to be well-adjusted and didn't buy into that. But in any event, the parents have a different mentality than you'd expect.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 20:20 |
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FWIW, it's incredibly hard for an officer to get a dishonorable discharge. The Navy doesn't take those things lightly, and investigations are pretty thorough. A recanted accusation of surprise sex would not be enough, there had to be other things going on and it's not very likely whatever he was discharged for was false. There are other levels of discharge that fall under General Discharge and could stem from lesser problems, such as alcoholism or failure to advance. This is far more likely than a dishonorable discharge. It can still make it hard to find a job though. I would leave him be, if you're on facebook or some social networking site, he'll be able to find you if he wants to.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 20:54 |
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compshateme85 posted:FWIW, it's incredibly hard for an officer to get a dishonorable discharge. The Navy doesn't take those things lightly, and investigations are pretty thorough. A recanted accusation of surprise sex would not be enough, there had to be other things going on and it's not very likely whatever he was discharged for was false. From what I understand, the thing that started the investigation wasn't the thing that he ultimately got sentenced for. It was an Admiral's Mast or whatever the procedural thing is. The charge ended up being "Conduct Unbecoming of an Officer" which could have been due to his drinking, etc. and you may be correct that it wasn't dishonorable, but it was something where he was basically done in the Navy and he was attempting to fight it to where it wouldn't affect his job at the hospital. He was basically on desk duty where he sat at a desk doing nothing.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 21:05 |
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LLJKSiLk posted:Our circle of friends has kind of moved off in different directions. He would contact you if he cared. He doesn't. There really doesn't have to be a good reason either. For whatever reason he is almost certainly avoiding you, rather than not being able to get in touch. 312 fucked around with this message at Mar 5, 2013 around 21:31 |
| # ? Mar 5, 2013 21:29 |
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312 posted:He would contact you if he cared. He doesn't. There really doesn't have to be a good reason either. For whatever reason he is almost certainly avoiding you, rather than not being able to get in touch. I just think it is more complicated based on his past history. From my understanding, after coming back from Iraq he's ended up in Psych wards, AA Meetings, and seemed barely able to hold himself together mentally. When he cut people off, it wasn't just me - it was everyone. During his lucid moments, he contacted us - and I guess as cliche as it sounds "It feels like the real John never came back from Iraq." If you had a friend or loved one in that situation - could you really just shrug your shoulders and forget it completely? The main reason this came to the forefront of my mind recently is because two of my groomsmen from that wedding are getting married in the next two months, and I'm a groomsman in both weddings. I don't think there has to be a good reason, and if he wants to stay on his own that is really fine with me as well. I don't know his reasons, but we've all been in situations where we cut ourselves off and even forget the people that care about us. I honestly am not even sure if he keeps in regular touch with his own family.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 21:39 |
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312 posted:He would contact you if he cared. He doesn't. There really doesn't have to be a good reason either. For whatever reason he is almost certainly avoiding you, rather than not being able to get in touch. Don't be an idiot. You have no idea if the guy cares and there can be plenty of reasons for him not contacting Silk and yet still care about him. Your advice here is pretty loving terrible. He doesn't miss a memory, he misses the friend and for all you know, the friend may miss him as well but feels it is safer for now to not contact anyone. Everyone misses that person, even if they changed. They miss that person, not the memory. You will always have that memory so how can you miss it? On topic though, there is literally nothing you can do here Silk without potentially breaking some boundaries that your friend may have put in place on purpose. Robot_Rumpus fucked around with this message at Mar 5, 2013 around 21:56 |
| # ? Mar 5, 2013 21:52 |
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One of his other friends he was in contact may have still been in contact with the ex-wife still. Dropping everyone would have been more effective than trying to figure out who it was if that's the case. He may also not want to deal with memories of his old life. Just let it go, you're not helping him or yourself by trying to talk to his family.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 22:16 |
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Drop a note at his parents that says something like, "I care, I miss you, call me if you want to talk." Tell his parents that you don't know if they have contact with him, but if they see him please give him the note. Then do no more.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 22:30 |
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K guys, I messaged his sister and passed along my phone number/email. Told her I'd love if she could get it to him. She said she was willing to do so. I was able to glean that it looks like he moved back home, and has a new wife/kid and is working at a hospital in my old hometown area. Gonna leave it alone if he doesn't want to talk. Otherwise, glad to know he's in a better place at least.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 23:31 |
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I only ask this because it's you, at which point did you have sex with his wife/ex-wife?
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| # ? Mar 5, 2013 23:45 |
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BooLoo posted:I only ask this because it's you, at which point did you have sex with his wife/ex-wife? I didn't. He used to be even more of a poon-hound than I ever was. I remember when my 17th birthday rolled around he had sex with the woman working at the ABC store in exchange for selling us liquor. Good news... I found out he is married, has a son, and I passed along my contact information. So hopefully I hear back. I'll be coming into town next week, so it'd be a cool birthday present to get to hang out with him again.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 00:30 |
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Have you considered that maybe the reason that he's not contacting you is that he's started his life over and that you remind him of times he'd rather forget? I'm not saying this to sound harsh, but that's a thing that happens.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 06:51 |
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CPL593H posted:Have you considered that maybe the reason that he's not contacting you is that he's started his life over and that you remind him of times he'd rather forget? I'm not saying this to sound harsh, but that's a thing that happens. I have considered that. That is why I'm stopping at giving him my contact information through his sister. If he chooses to use it, I'm leaving that up to him. If not - then at least I know he got the message. He looks happy with his new family from the pictures I saw on his sister's page. I'm hopeful he and I can reconnect and maybe catch up over dinner at the Irish Pub for my birthday next week. But if not, that's cool too.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 06:57 |
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Don't you have kids and baby-mamas to hang out with?
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 08:57 |
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Did you get that vasectomy yet?
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 18:26 |
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Soylent Grun posted:Did you get that vasectomy yet? Coming up on the one year anniversary of that.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 18:42 |
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Robot_Rumpus posted:Don't be an idiot. You have no idea if the guy cares and there can be plenty of reasons for him not contacting Silk and yet still care about him. You are right, I am making a couple of assumptions which are almost certainly correct. My advice is pretty spot on for these types of situations, though people don't like hearing it.* I find it hard to believe this guys isn't actively ignoring the OP though. *the OP is looking for closure, which seldom exists. 312 fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2013 around 18:50 |
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 18:47 |
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312 posted:Well I have, and a much closer one than it sounds like you had My, aren't you presumptuous. Edit: Ahh, you edited the post, but yours was in response to OP posted:If you had a friend or loved one in that situation - could you really just shrug your shoulders and forget it completely?
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 19:29 |
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Yeah, 312's new title is totally fitting. It's not personal, your friend either feels bad and thinks you're pissed at him or he is really intent on avoiding you forever because his ex might find him or something.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 19:58 |
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Corn Thongs posted:Yeah, 312's new title is totally fitting. Well, I received this message from his wife: John's Wife posted:Hey LLJKSiLk, I am going to pass your number on to John. What would be the best time for him to call you? We do live in [redacted] and I am sure John would love to catch up with you. Take care, John's Wife As for now, I'm just going to sit and wait if he calls. If he doesn't want to talk for whatever reason, I'm fine. I'm not on some crusade for him to give me an explanation or anything. I'm just glad to know he's doing okay, and if possible it would be nice to rekindle that friendship.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2013 20:25 |
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Good news. He called me tonight around 7. We talked for about 45 minutes or so. He did get married, has a kid (and one on the way). He expressed regret for dropping off the face of the earth, but says he was in a bad place and needed time to himself. Now we are making plans to meet up for my birthday lunch next weekend, and he mentioned making a trip up toward the summer and maybe checking out some of the hiking trails, parks, and mountains up this way. So looks like things turned out good. I had no idea that I'd be able to find him when posting this thread...
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| # ? Mar 7, 2013 03:28 |
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312 posted:You are right, I am making a couple of assumptions which are almost certainly correct. My advice is pretty spot on for these types of situations, though people don't like hearing it. Just thought I'd quote your dribble once more for posterity, it seemed appropriate. Congrats LLJK.
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| # ? Mar 7, 2013 10:49 |
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Jeza posted:Just thought I'd quote your dribble once more for posterity, it seemed appropriate. Thank you. Apparently my timing was right, because for a year or two he moved to Maryland and actively avoided his parents/family as well. He said almost verbatim what I figured his reasons were. He said he got to a pretty dark place, but now that he has a family, son, etc. he feels really happy now. He wants to reconnect with our other friends as well, he just seems embarrassed more than anything that he dropped off the earth for a while.
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| # ? Mar 7, 2013 15:35 |
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LLJKSiLk posted:Thank you. Apparently my timing was right, because for a year or two he moved to Maryland and actively avoided his parents/family as well. Awesome Silk. Glad everything worked out in your favor and it's great you took the time to do this. It probably meant a lot to him that you put forth the effort to reconnect.
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| # ? Mar 7, 2013 15:40 |
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This has given me hope my crazy but awesome friend Jimmy will one day swing back onto the scene.
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| # ? Mar 7, 2013 16:09 |
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quote:Good news... I found out he is married, has a son, and I passed along my contact information. This is certainly good to hear, but some people have to cut off ties with anyone remotely connected with abusive ex because sometimes abusers find their targets through friends/family/other connections. If his clearly abusive ex DOES in fact have BPD, then I doubt she's the sort who buys into "out of sight, out of mind", so please be careful.
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 05:10 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 14:46 |
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Last update guys: We hung out on Saturday for about an hour or so, and his son played with my daughter for that period. I met his wife also, and she is about 26 weeks pregnant and they both seem really happy together. It wasn't awkward at all, and he bought me a really nice gift for my birthday as well. He seems intent on coming to visit me sometime in April. We talked for a while and in between reminiscing he seemed genuinely interested in getting together as much as possible to make up for lost time. We discussed a road trip to Tennessee to go hiking in some of the national parks. Great success guys. Couldn't be happier!
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 17:48 |
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