|
Sup Goons, Goddamnit. I think my last E/N thread was years ago here when I broke up with my girlfriend of 5 years. Thank you for reading this wall of text. Something went down, and I wanted to reach out to the community and get your views on how badly you think I should react to it. In summary, I’ve been working on an iPhone App with my friend as a partner, COO. Neither of us are developers, I’m a tech / gadget nerd and he’s an accountant type guy. We are both MBAs. He’s funded this thing from the start with his savings, and established the legal entity, I’ve been guiding him with significant strategic advice and ideas throughout the project. Throughout the last year up until about a few weeks ago, we’ve been working together as he would meet up with me regularly and use my ideas and advice, but he was always hesitant on cutting me in on the deal, or offering me anything, so it got to the point about December where I told him that I no longer wanted to help and give him any more of my ideas unless he cut me in on the action and gave me a stake. Over Christmas break we would come back and reconvene to decide what was appropriate. He originally told me 1% in December, and I told him that he was lowballing me and forget it, so we agreed to come with proposals in January to see what would be fair. January came around and we met to negotiate. After some back and forth, I proposed 20% ownership, he talked me down to 10, I offered 11 and we shook hands with a verbal agreement. We agreed verbally to give me 3% for work done the previous year, 4% vested end of this year, and 4% vested end of next year, for my work as COO of the company and offer my nights and weekends and time even during my day job. My friends and family have rightfully been pleased but clamoring for me to get a contract in writing, and when I asked he showed me the money left in the company account and asked to delay the contract (you know where this is going to go) creation until he had more money in the coffers to pay his lawyers. I drafted a simple agreement showing our agreed terms and asked him to sign it but he refused to sign, and told me his word was bond, and challenged me for doubting him as my best friend. The idea was, once we’d get investors in we can dovetail the legal work into the lawyer workstream and get my paperwork drafted and signed with proper clauses and vesting agreements etc. On his word as a long time close friend, we’ve been working full on since then for the 1.5 months and I’ve delivered a number of things over the life of this thing, including -Designed the strategy for approaching the development of the app, as I'm a project manager in my day job, and the infrastructure setup, server/client structure, offline/online scenarios, etc (he originally wanted to use Bluetooth as his data channel lol) -Set up all the software, computers, share drive, doc control to facilitate document sharing, created forms and processes for bug fixing and working with developers, set up project management methodology, managed the developers directly at times to support him and made development decisions and changes to get to the deadlines. -Came up myself with the name of the App that was catchy, not trademarked, and ended up being a smash hit with elements of Lore describing exactly what the app does -Created the future recurring revenue model through my knowledge about tech, apps, phones etc -Consistently reported huge risks/ oversights in functionality that would have killed the app on launch which he was completely clueless about, and proposed all the corrective changes required that were implemented directly by developers -Created a pitch to investors with slide decks and created a 3 minute elevator pitch, mostly my writing, coached him through it and established contacts as COO of the company during the pitch -Created the business plan for him minus financial forecasts, including market research analysis, SWOT analysis, all that jazz There’s more but to avoid wall of text, basically I was doing what you’d expect any partner to do. I brought the tech side and mobile / phone / computer knowledge. Long story short, early Feb I told him it’s time to give me a contract because we are close to launch. He told me fine and said that he was engaging lawyers but I was suspicious that nothing was happening, every time I brought up the contract, which was basically every day for about 2 weeks in early Feb, he would flip out on me accusing me of not trusting him, and make me feel terrible for wasting time bringing it up, and told me he actually had been engaging the lawyers and it takes time to complete these things. So I delivered the business plan as I said I would, and then sent him an email informing him I was pausing all efforts until he delivered me with paperwork outlining our partnership and the 11%. That was 2 weeks ago. He flipped out and accused me of bailing out right before launch, and said the only reason I could possibly be doing this is that I didn't trust him. Then he came back to me a few days later and said he respected me for sticking to my guns and will come back with legal contract to sign so we can move forward as partners. We were working really well together and I was very fired up for this venture. We just met a few days ago finally as he was ready to discuss the deal and told me he wanted to formalize everything. I met with him, and he told me that after discussing with his lawyers, potential investors, and doing research online, he would only be able to offer me 5% of the company. If I accepted, he would go forward and instruct his lawyers to create the paperwork. When I asked him if there was any compromise in this, he told me No. When I asked him how much stake he’d have in this with investors now if I was to accept the agreement, he told me 91%. I told him we had an agreement, I can paste my email, but basically I wasn’t working for 5%, we agreed on 11%, and he broke our verbal agreement so I’m out and I walked. I also accused him of breaking our verbal contract, and told him he owes me for the 3% he agreed for last year verbally, so I’m out for this year but need compensation for work done so far. Keep in mind, I have copies and access to basically all of the company’s internal information, including business plans, requirements catalogues for the app, unique selling points, etc. 2 days later, I get a response: (Lawyered up email removed to continue negotiations without prejudice) Basically, he’s hosed me, completely writing off the work I did all of last year, completely ignoring our verbal handshake agreement or the numbers we came up with, and saying that everything was always "subject to" a number of conditions we never discussed, since then the situation has deteriorated with some more back and forth, but I have nothing in writing, he’s rewritten history and he has lawyers. However, I have lots if not all of the internal information and never signed an NDA, including business plans, financial forecasts, privacy policies showing how each component of the app works, etc. I have witnesses that heard him and I talking about the 11% and celebrating, I also have email trails, and receipts, showing otherwise. I also have the press calling me asking to interview me as the COO about the project. I still have a stack of goddamned business cards where I'm listed as the COO of the company. Just for bonus posterity after I told him I'm walking after his lawyered up email to me which was absolutely stunning, he -Called me and told me the deteriorating situation was my fault for reacting with emotions -He put me as director of the company early last year, I never signed anything to that fact, but he told me if I was now stepping down he would need me to sign a document saying I would resign, I told him I'm not signing poo poo, and he told me that I HAVE to sign it -He came back and offered me a pittance portion of the company for my efforts so far, if I resigned as director and signed a document saying I'm no longer a shareholder(???) -Asked me to VERBALLY AGREE TO THE ABOVE OVER THE PHONE BEFORE HE WOULD PROCEED WITH THE PAPERWORK (likely with the intent of getting me to sign an NDA)AFTER BREAKING OUR VERBAL AGREEMENT? -He came back with a cryptic text days later saying he's changed his mind for the better but we need to talk. I told him anything he wants to say put it in writing and nothing since then except some email about how he misses me as a friend. What do you guys think I should do? The situation at this point is irrecoverable, I don't want to work with him ever as the trust is completely gone after that distorted reality in the lawyered up email, I never saw him capable of this kind of character, and I am fed up with his bullshit. I have a mutual friend who is a developer who knows the story, and also is disgusted with what he's turned into, they wants to work with me to create a rival app and take the best ideas from this one but while I have all the starter points it will take us at least 6-9 months to get something out. barbs fucked around with this message at Mar 8, 2013 around 11:57 |
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:01 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2013 06:59 |
|
|
Now that's what I call a sticky situation!
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:03 |
|
|
Leave an upper decker in all his bathrooms.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:05 |
|
|
You don't have any legs to stand on!
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:05 |
|
|
Get tested
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:06 |
|
|
How did you not immediately know this was going to happen when he refused to sign a contract?
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:07 |
|
|
You can always pee on a dish, put it in the freezer, and then slide the frozen piss disc under his door.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:07 |
|
|
SEVER.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:07 |
|
|
Sever.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:08 |
|
|
How old are both of you? Are you in therapy?
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:08 |
|
|
What kind of money are you guys expecting? I don't get why he's so against giving you those 6 extra points. What a greedy rear end in a top hat. Who actually developed it? If you did, take the work you did and sell it to another entity. gently caress that guy.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:09 |
|
|
Your fault for believing his word was bond. Pretty much nothing you can do but pick up your ball and go home. Better luck next time!
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:09 |
|
|
http://forums.somethingawful.com/fo...php?forumid=214 http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=3266659
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:09 |
|
|
Man all this time you could have been building a house boat.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:09 |
|
|
Were you dressed like a slut?
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:10 |
|
|
I'm sorry for your loss OP. GOondolences 
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:10 |
|
|
Straight from the girlfriend to the co-worker, smooth OP.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:12 |
|
|
Also who negotiates by suggesting 20, hearing 10 and then coming back with 11? You're supposed to say 15, even kids know that.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:12 |
|
|
You're a dumbass for not walking away at the verbal handshake. Dumbass.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:12 |
|
|
I was going to suggest that you loop around, or dovetail the legal work into the lawyer workstream - but you already did that, so dunno. Good luck, buddy!
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:12 |
|
|
That awkward moment when you realize you posted a thread in GBS instead of E/N
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:12 |
|
|
Pretend he's John Romero, and you're John Carmack, except neither of you can program.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:14 |
|
|
SlenderWhore posted:That awkward moment when you realize you posted a thread in GBS instead of E/N At least he's allowed to close his threads here!
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:14 |
|
|
Ah apologies.. It's been a while since I was away. it is an awkward moment, can a mod move this to E/N? or maybe I should have chosen a new tag.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:15 |
|
|
So you're both MBAs... Which online diploma mill did you get your degree from? I have a few business propositions for your fellow graduates. Handshake agreements only, of course. \/\/ That sounds like the most fun option, but there's probably already a half dozen chinese coders that will release the exact same app two weeks before whoever he sells poo poo to can release theirs. Spongebob Tampax fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2013 around 22:18 |
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:15 |
|
|
You should gently caress him over either by releasing info or making a rival app since you never signed an NDA. He sounds like a slippery snake if there ever was one.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:16 |
|
|
Naerasa posted:Also who negotiates by suggesting 20, hearing 10 and then coming back with 11? You're supposed to say 15, even kids know that. The other guy was probably ready to settle at 13, maybe 12.5 if he could press the OP. And then OP just goes ahead and did what he did.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:17 |
|
|
When a business partner fucks you, you just get up and gently caress him back buddy!
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:18 |
|
|
Post the source on github
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:18 |
|
|
No doubt I was a fool, we're both 30 and this was my first foray into this world of the entrepreneurial world. I'll come away learning lessons, I was definitely foolish on this one. I actually appreciate your reponses where you're calling me an idiot, because I was. He's been my best friend of almost 5.5 years.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:19 |
|
|
Make a better app, make more cash on it than he does on his, and tell him to go gently caress himself. edit: also uh 11%, really?
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:20 |
|
|
barbs posted:No doubt I was a fool, we're both 30 and this was my first foray into this world of the entrepreneurial world. I'll come away learning lessons, I was definitely foolish on this one. I actually appreciate your reponses where you're calling me an idiot, because I was. He's been my best friend of almost 5.5 years. The world of the entrepreneurial world is a cruel world my friend.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:20 |
|
|
PoPcornTG posted:When a business partner fucks you, you just get up and gently caress him back buddy! That's what I'm thinking.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:20 |
|
|
If there's value to the work you've been done that can be extracted legally, go for it. Make a rival app. Go win. You make it sound like this could be done pretty well so go do it.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:20 |
|
|
Honestly I think GBS needs this thread, it is almost like time traveling, which given the OPs avatar may actually be the case. E: damnit
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:21 |
|
|
PoPcornTG posted:When a business partner fucks you, you just get up and gently caress him back buddy! Go get herpes and then give him herpes.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:21 |
|
|
quote:I see my options as 1. start a rival app or 2. post all his internal docs highlighting the killer USP's to reddit or competitors since I don't have an NDA signed or 3. ??? Does an MBA not cover negotiations and contracts because the fact that you allowed this to happen and then wrote about it the way you have is more typical of a 20 year old freelancer than a professional businessman. It sucks that this guy was an rear end in a top hat but as they say, if you can't figure out who the sucker is, it's you.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:22 |
|
|
Heh, maybe it would have been best to not label it E/N and just as a general question.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:23 |
|
|
Rino posted:I'm sorry for your loss OP. GOondolences Thank you!
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:24 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2013 06:59 |
|
|
barbs posted:He's been my best friend of almost 5.5 years. This is actually the part of the story that helps me to understand why you were so trusting. I have a hard time calling you an idiot because I can see a lot of people being a little too trusting when it's business between close friends. It's really easy to sit here and criticize you, but I think a lot of people posting that you are an idiot are being a little BEEP BOOP about it and have no concept of how friendship can make you blind to things.
|
| # ? Mar 6, 2013 22:27 |
|
