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Hi goons. I've been tempted to write an E/N thread for a while, but I keep thinking better of it and not posting it, cause why broadcast my dumb problems on the internet? And I've gone back to my GP to get set up for more therapy sessions and everything... but it may be a few weeks until I can get in to see my therapist again and the waiting sucks. I think it would be nice to get some different feedback from more people too, though. I don't really have anyone I can talk to about things like this. I have some decent friends, but no one that I'd dump really personal poo poo on them. (Well, I do have one good friend that I've become closer to since she confided some of her personal poo poo to me, but that was about a physically abusive boyfriend, so I'd feel guilty complaining to her about my husband and our far less serious problems) But I'm starting to ramble already, so I'll distill it down to the main points. The overall worst problem is: Both me and my husband are clueless idiots when it comes to anything career-related, especially networking. We have similar weaknesses, doubling down on social anxiety, avoidant behaviour, random bouts of depression, and procrastination. Because of this, we have been consistently either unemployed or underemployed, which has not made the marriage smooth sailing. Things were finally going well for a while for 2 years, with both of us in halfway decent full-time jobs. We still weren't anywhere close to where we'd want to be, but we were saving money and starting to really turn our lives around. Then last year, things got hosed up again. I don't want to get into that whole story since I already dealt with it a lot in therapy, but my husband is now unemployed again while I'm still working full-time. Although things are still much better now than they have been in the past, it's really easy to fall back into resentment. Especially when you factor in these bonus issues: 1 - I started going to therapy last year after a bunch of rapid-fire drama (not just about my husband's job) threw me into some seriously acute depression. I had never been so hysterically emotional in my life. But since the therapy, I've made big strides in reducing my anxiety, recovering from that depression, and communicating with my husband better. He's started making improvements too now, since it's easier for him to deal with me. But even though I'm sure he's got some depression as well, he still carries a foolish prejudice against the idea of therapy. He doesn't actively criticise the idea anymore since I went and it worked so well for me, but he wouldn't go himself, and I know pushing him into it is useless. This makes me feel bitter sometimes, like he doesn't want to actually face and work on his problems as much as I do. 2 - My biological clock is ticking and the window is closing fast. As much as I know "there is no right time", this is definitely THE WRONG TIME. This has been making me randomly sad and depressed again out of nowhere, and because the main reason for not having a kid yet is our poor financial situation, this charges up every career complaint with extra emotions. This depression is much milder than last year, at least. I don't feel so unhappy like I did before, but instead I'll feel like not doing anything. Often I'll have one day where I'm super focused and ready to get poo poo done - I'll make a highly tailored job application or write a networking letter (and I've actually had some success there for once, getting a reply from someone so I could meet with them and pick their brain for a while), but then the next day I can't keep that up and crash again, sitting on the computer and buying comfort food instead of cooking. Or sometimes for no reason on my way to work I'll just start tearing up. I think part of it is me being nervous and perfectionist and retreating as soon as I take any real action. I think the other part is, once I start doing any serious work, I look over at my husband and use him as an excuse to slack off again. Working full-time and then still finding time to make an application when he hasn't actually applied for a job cause he's still got to work on his resume several months later, it makes me really resentful. (he has been doing other things like going to meetups for programmers, working on some coding for a friend's personal website, and signing up for a test to get some Linux certification. But yeah, without a decent resume he can't actually apply for any decent job opening he sees in the meantime) So I decided to start seeing my psychologist again, cause I know I have to get my own poo poo together and get a more meaningful job regardless of what's going on with my husband or any future baby that may or may not ever exist. I've got the new referral from my GP to get more sessions, but I'm still waiting to actually get some times booked in now. In the meantime, I've been trying to not lose focus on the positive things. But last night was just a huge relapse that left me with a good chunk of time to write up this post. One other issue we've had is different communication styles. I like to bring up my problems straight away, and babble about them a lot, while my husband likes to brood. His mainstay technique is just silently projecting at me that he is displeased, but not actually talking about it. I've always complained that this is childish, but he has been making progress. He's acknowledged at every serious discussion lately that he thinks it's unfair of him to make me always be the one to talk first. I've told him I don't actually mind that, what I mind is him clearly starting a non-conversation about how mad he is without being willing to actually talk about it. It doesn't serve any useful purpose, it's just lashing out and making me nervous and upset. If he's obviously mad about something, I don't mind being the one to go try and talk and find out what's wrong... so long as he actually talks to me then. He's become much better about finally doing that. Since I went to therapy, I haven't been as psycho emotional anymore, which has helped him open up more easily. I've made sure to tell him that I've noticed this and really appreciate it. I thought things were going great compared to the past, even through this time of him being unemployed again. But of course, they aren't going so great when it comes to him actually finding a new job. At first we were able to find some silver lining to this situation. He'd always been meaning to get a better job than the dead-end helpdesk stuff he was doing before. But he'd been too burnt out from working to do any more work on finding that new job. Now, he could devote more attention to it, and with 2 years of recent work experience he should have a much easier time than he did back when all he had was his degree. So at first I tried being nice and patient and hands-off, and he seemed to take advantage of that by just getting jack poo poo done. So then I got mad and impatient and resentful and hounded him, and we fought about how "I'm not helping." So then I'd back off again for a while and repeated the process. It didn't help that I was going through the super busy Christmas season at work, had next to no holiday break, and then got thrown straight back into a new busy season because of Chinese New Year. My bosses are rightfully pulling me up about getting behind on things and kind of dropping the ball lately. This makes it even easier to get resentful, because on my end, I've got bosses who will be right on my case the moment I start getting behind even though I'm still busting my rear end. And I'm supposed to just face up to it and keep working and keep smiling and looking like I'm still with it, not letting on that I'm getting depressed again cause guess I've got brain problems. But if I hold my husband's hand to sit his rear end down and rewrite his resume so he has one loving complete first draft of it cause he couldn't do it for months when left to his own devices, he goes into a huff. One time he even got annoyed with me cause I wasn't helping out at all lately with the housework. Hahaha, I did not take that well. But even after getting out that huge rant... I've been in his place. Before I got the good job I have now, I never would've thought I could get it, and just kind of stumbled into it finally from some freak luck, cause I was pretty depressed and wasting time playing video games and not applying for much. I know exactly what he's going through. In one moment of clarity when I was binging on some political rants, I realized I was being hypocritically bootstrappy when it came to my husband, and I should stop acting with punitive things in mind and just figure out whatever I can do to actually help him. I've told him this, and that I considered things actually really good between us lately. In fact, a few days ago when I got into one of my random depressive moods, I thought I was finally learning how to deal with it productively. I just wrote out all the junk I was ruminating on to get it out and not just bottle it up, but I consciously reminded myself that it wasn't anything my husband did that put me in this bad mood. It was being in this bad mood that was making me dwell on any little bad thing or bad memory that I could blame on my husband, without any rational reason to. When I got home that day, he happened to be in a great mood from getting some recommendation on LinkedIn, and gave me a hug when I came in, and all my worries just evaporated. I was so happy even after that bad mood earlier, just from being around him when he's happy. And while last night got me mad, the night just before was especially good. We went out for a Meetup event that my husband had found, and had a great time socializing with some other people. We were getting into some intellectual discussions trying to tell people about thorium energy, I was telling stories about why I hate the States so much and moved to Australia thanks to my husband... it was great to look back fondly and remember how we got together and what attracted me to him. Which is why last night really pissed me off! It was Friday night, I was really happy to be done with this drat week of having my bosses griping at me and looking forward to loving relaxing. I was driving home and happened to pass my husband, who was taking an evening jog. I honked at him and he waved me on. He usually times his jogs to see how he's improving at how fast he can do his route, so I thought nothing of this and went on my way. I got home, turned on the radio, and started putting away the clean laundry my husband had sitting out. He got back just when I was hanging up the last 2 or 3 things, so I happily called out to him from the bedroom and was met with total silence. The classic "I am displeased" signal. Yesterday everything was awesome, today I didn't even have a chance to even loving do anything to gently caress it up, he even came home to me doing a chore first like he wanted before I plop my rear end down to veg on the computer. But no, it was predetermined, he was officially in a Bad Mood. But no matter, I'd just sit down next to him, ask him what was up, and now he'd talk to me, right? He'd been good about that lately. But nope, not this time. Just sitting there in moody silence. I say fine, I'll come back later. Well, then he tried to blame it on his Runkeeper program, it pissed him off by acting spazzy on this particular jog. But that obviously wasn't it, cause as he sat down to his computer he said he just "had to work some things out for himself." So I said I was going to go out and give him some space, then. We have a tiny apartment, so I didn't want to spend the whole drat Friday night sitting only a couple metres away from him in the next room in tense brooding silence. And I really didn't want to make him dinner. I still needed to destress after dealing with the poo poo from work this week. So I drove out to grab some food and do some reading and/or writing for a while. (He said I didn't "have to" leave, as if I really wanted to stay at home and he was benevolently allowing this instead of cruelly forcing me to go, so I said, no, I really would prefer to go out for a while) I headed out to a cafe I really like, and shortly after I'd ordered and started on my tea while waiting for my food, he called me up to ask if I was having dinner at home. I said not now, perhaps if he'd rung 10 minutes earlier. I got back to reading. He rang again, asking if I'm coming home at all tonight. I'm like, uh, yes?! I'm just going to chill out here for like an hour, okay? So now I can't even actually relax while I'm trying to relax. He made such a big show about how he didn't want to talk, but as soon as I take him at his word, he freaks out. About an hour later, after eating my food and writing up a bunch of this, I went home and noticed he'd texted me on the way back, asking my eta. So I'm expecting him to be all annoyed when I get back, but ready to talk now and griping about how I ran off instead of talking. Nope. For all that texting and calling, I got back inside and set down my stuff to more silence. I think "oh come on, after all your progress about not wanting to make me talk first, you're going to do it again now even after you pestered me the whole time I was gone?" But gently caress it, I peeked into the bedroom and asked "So did you want to talk?" He waves me over to sit on the bed and he says "Can we not talk yet? Is that okay? Can I talk about it tomorrow?" I say sure, and get up to go use my computer. For someone who's so indignant about how I don't let him "not talk", he actually interrupted me on my way out the drat door to say "We don't always have to talk, Bifauxnen!" Dude, I was walking away from you to not talk and literally leave you alone and you stopped me! I repeated that yes, that was fine, which was why I was leaving the room! But he doesn't want to just "not talk", he wants me to sit and stew in his oppressive silence and just bask in how displeased he is instead of feeling okay while he's unhappy. Screw that, I came over to finish typing up my post while he just went to sleep, at an hour quite early for us. ...welp, got that off my chest, but what else annoys me is that what I'd most love to work on in therapy (and this E/N thread) isn't even this relationship stuff, it's actually the career issue. In my first therapy sessions, I was so busy dealing with the depression and relationship issues making me immediately miserable, that I didn't get any time to work on the much longer-term career issue, and my anxieties holding me back there. But it's the main issue lying behind pretty much all our problems. If we were more successful or doing something more meaningful with our lives, we'd be happier with ourselves and I think a lot of these petty squabbles would never even start. And even though my husband's the unemployed one right now, I also need to keep working on my end to find a better job. My job is stable, but not as satisfying for me anymore since I like the tasks but hate the industry. The novelty of learning the ropes and gaining experience and proving myself is wearing off fast. I really need to find something new before I burn out. For a long time I've been a stereotypical aimless arts graduate, but I finally have a goal to shoot for now. I just still have no loving clue what to do about it. But that will have to wait for a later post. (edited just to fix a timeline mistake: one "last night" I wrote about was no longer last night by the time I posted) Bifauxnen fucked around with this message at Mar 8, 2013 around 20:52 |
| # ? Mar 8, 2013 20:45 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 21:45 |
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Your relationship is sure going to work out alright. 
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 20:54 |
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Become a truck driver.
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 20:58 |
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You don't sound like you get on with your husband very well, why did you marry him if you can't even talk to him? I might be getting the wrong impression here but hiding from one another in your apartment sounds immensely childish. Getting a better job isn't going to fix any of your relationship issues and I have to ask how much do you guys communicate outside of arguments and talking about work?
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 20:58 |
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Brooding, silence, and passive aggressive suggestion aren't really "communication styles".
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 21:04 |
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Maybe he thought you were storming out to punish him for not wanting to talk. Maybe he's used to you pushing him to talk, and even though he resents it, its absence seems like you're angry at him for not wanting to talk? Even though you're not really angry and you're just trying to give him space? Sounds like one of those weird emotional catch-22 situations couples can get into when things are lovely and tense.
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 21:12 |
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Is your husband willing to put any effort into changing his behavior? You sound like you're on track, improving both your career work and your personal behavior. What is he doing? Also, being unemployed for 7 months and not doing ALL THE CHORES plus cooking dinner is total bullshit. He should run the house if he isn't running a career.
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 21:17 |
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NoneSuch posted:You don't sound like you get on with your husband very well, why did you marry him if you can't even talk to him? I might be getting the wrong impression here but hiding from one another in your apartment sounds immensely childish. Getting a better job isn't going to fix any of your relationship issues and I have to ask how much do you guys communicate outside of arguments and talking about work? Well, ironically one of the things I first liked about him was how we could talk to each other about anything. That was one of the main things that made me so depressed last year was that we had lost that. When we're not talking about work, it's usually fine. He'll always want to show me cool things when I get home from work like TED talks, or some scientific article... or some random cute pictures of firefoxes. We go out to occasional events about our common interests, like volunteering for a local environmental group. We've been working out together, too. But when it comes to our careers, we get extra defensive and irritated because we're disappointed with ourselves as much as we are with each other. When we have something positive to talk about related to work, it's fine - like when I was showing off to him how I'm finally learning how to do this networking thing and got a response to my letter. But there's not enough of those positive things yet. We've got better about talking finances, though. For the first few months after my husband lost his job, I was trying to just relax and not go into austerity mode since we had built up a nice buffer in our bank account. But we were slowly leaking money, each month the buffer getting a little lower. So last month, I drew up a new budget so we wouldn't be spending any more than I was bringing in anymore. At the end of the month, we had successfully stuck to it and had a hundred bucks left over. That really cheered me up. This month is going okay too. We haven't been able to save up anymore like we used to, but we're at least holding steady now. clammy posted:Maybe he thought you were storming out to punish him for not wanting to talk. Maybe he's used to you pushing him to talk, and even though he resents it, its absence seems like you're angry at him for not wanting to talk? Even though you're not really angry and you're just trying to give him space? Sounds like one of those weird emotional catch-22 situations couples can get into when things are lovely and tense. Yeah, I kind of figure it must be something like that. He's just used to me always telling right away when he's in a bad mood, and then asking him what's up and bugging him to talk. When I went to bed he said we should go for a jog in the morning and we can talk then, so that's what we're about to do.
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 21:20 |
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Your husband is a huge loser and you will feel so stupid about typing that wall of text when you start an affair with someone with goals and ambitions in a few months.
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 21:24 |
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Plaease don't even think about having kids. It's not just your finances. You two aren't anywhere near ready to have kids.
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| # ? Mar 8, 2013 23:35 |
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quack
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I actually read that giant wall of text and all I got out of it is that you two take turns being enormous babies. Yes, your husband probably sucks worse. Yes, it's good that you're in therapy. Here's what I learned about you from one post: Bifauxnen posted:Both me and my husband are clueless idiots when it comes to anything career-related, especially networking. We have similar weaknesses, doubling down on social anxiety, avoidant behaviour, random bouts of depression, and procrastination. Because of this, we have been consistently either unemployed or underemployed, which has not made the marriage smooth sailing. You are over 30 and have this to show for it. Start by fixing most of that.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 00:02 |
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Your husband sounds like a lazy gently caress...tell him that a resume is one loving page and it shouldn't take seven months to work on it. How many times do you have to re-format the header? His full time job should be applying for a job until he has one. If he applies to 400 places over the next two months and doesn't get a hit, tell him to apply to 100 more per month and go door to door offering to walk the dogs of the people who do have somewhere to go during the day for 10 bucks a week. He can get 20 clients, walk 4 sets of 5 dogs every day, be a pack leader and make an extra 800/mo. Seriously, sitting on his rear end being negative and weird is not going to get him hired and is not going to improve either of your lives. Also, he's clearly not too big of a man for therapy because he sounds like a huge whiney-rear end baby. How many hours per day would you say each of you spend on WoW?
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 00:18 |
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Obviously he is just going to procrastinate about this resume poo poo forever, so take your leftover $100 and hire a resume service (maybe the SA folks!) so he's got no more excuses about getting his rear end out there. Also don't have kids.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 00:42 |
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Adar posted:You are over 30 and have this to show for it. Start by fixing most of that. Yup, that is pretty much it. So I'm starting to make my own job applications and trying to network with people to find out more about the stuff I want to get into. But it makes me really nervous and I have huge peaks and valleys right now of how productive I am about it. I'm hoping the therapy will help since it did help me a lot last year. The morning talk went well anyway, he's been freaking out over trying to prepare for possible coding interviews since he's never done one before, and hasn't felt like he can talk to me about his anxieties cause he doesn't want to be a complainer. While I've been extra busy and also getting into a funk, he's been getting annoyed cause I just spew out whatever I'm mad about straight away all the time. He wants me to spend some time with him doing some practice interviews though, with him writing code on a whiteboard. That's something productive, at least. BeefThief posted:Your husband sounds like a lazy gently caress...tell him that a resume is one loving page and it shouldn't take seven months to work on it. How many times do you have to re-format the header? His full time job should be applying for a job until he has one. Indeed, this is the main thing we've been arguing about. He just hits this huge mental block about putting things in a sensible format, like he's personally offended by bullet points or something. So one day I just took the ungodly mess he had, fixed up all the order and formatting, wrote out some example bullet points for stuff he did that started off with a good action verb, and highlighted the spots he had to fill in himself because I didn't actually know the technical details. Then I told him he had to fill that in tonight just to get something down, to the point where he could show it to at least some family members to get further critique. It looks halfway decent now so that was a big relief. BeefThief posted:If he applies to 400 places over the next two months and doesn't get a hit, tell him to apply to 100 more per month and go door to door offering to walk the dogs of the people who do have somewhere to go during the day for 10 bucks a week. He can get 20 clients, walk 4 sets of 5 dogs every day, be a pack leader and make an extra 800/mo. Seriously, sitting on his rear end being negative and weird is not going to get him hired and is not going to improve either of your lives. Also, he's clearly not too big of a man for therapy because he sounds like a huge whiney-rear end baby. I have tried arguing this approach in the past before he got his helpdesk job. But when he got that job, he was really spending time carefully crafting and tailoring each application. He got an interview at a 2nd place too in the same week as the one that ended up hiring him. So he's convinced this is the way to go. And for more advanced stuff like he wants to get now, it's hard to argue with that. As for WoW, for me, it's mainly the forums here that are a major timesink. If we don't have some event to go to that gets us out of the house entirely, I'll spend a solid 3-4 hours on the computer. A bit of it will be doing a quick job scan to see if there's anything worth making an application for (I can afford to be more picky since I do have a decent job), and I've found a couple good ones that I really worked up a nice cover letter for, and tweaked my resume to put the most relevant things first. But not enough time is spent on job stuff, of course. The games I play are never online ones. I swore off of massive multiplayer anything years ago because I know if I try and take one up again it would just be the worst idea ever. My husband will actually spend more of his computer time reading genuine news and educational things, and complains that I just look up dumb poo poo on the internet. Hopefully I can harness my anxiety for good by associating bad E/N reactions with this place so I stop wanting to come here so much.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 00:55 |
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Instead of letting on that he's been unemployed and brooding/stewing in his own code for the past 7 months he should just lie on his resume and put "Freelance Pack Leader" as his most recent job experience for the past 6 months. Bullet point that he's gained 20 local clients who trust him to exercise their dogs and made strong social connections in his community. It will pique the interest of a potential employer and show that he's a self-starter. Plus who cares if he lies about that because who are they gonna call for a reference, Fido? Try it on the next 20 applications he sends out next week and see how many callbacks he gets.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 01:26 |
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Every day mix a little bit of pee pee into his coffee. Keep adding more and more until he's basically drinking a mug of hot piss every morning. Either that or tell him to act like a loving man
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 14:34 |
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Toymachine posted:Your husband is a huge loser and you will feel so stupid about typing that wall of text when you start an affair with someone with goals and ambitions in a few months. I read the whole wall of text and honestly this is pretty close to my reaction too. quote:Indeed, this is the main thing we've been arguing about. He just hits this huge mental block about putting things in a sensible format, like he's personally offended by bullet points or something. No, he's loving lazy and all of that bullshit about mental blocks is rationalizing it. So your husband is a lazy gently caress, a brooding rear end in a top hat and refuses to even consider counseling. In your calm moments you tell yourself you have issues too--which you do, of course--and you really just want to help him but don't know how. Then when you're in contact with him that all goes out the window and you lash out, because, well, he's a lazy rear end in a top hat. He views you as an overbearing pest and you view him as a useless lead weight tied around you. In all likelihood both these things are true, largely because every time you see him being lazy you nag, and every time you nag it just makes him lazier. 'Vicious cycle' anyone? You've been working hard at putting together a respectable life ten years later than normal people do; great for you. He isn't, and in all honesty I think it is very unlikely he's ever going to stop being a loser. I also think you're grappling with the same realization and afraid of its consequences (you have to choose between a lifetime of misery and divorce).
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 15:24 |
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When I was last unemployed, I had time to write three basic CVs for different job types, plus a fourth experimental CV that was totally different to the others but really effective at winning interviews and ultimately the job I took. I also had time to apply to around 30-40 jobs a day, spending 5 minutes on each one with cover letters and the like. Over the course of 6 weeks I had 3 weeks unemployed, 1 week in a job that didn't suit me, 2 more weeks unemployed then found this current job. All but the experimental CV were done on day 1. You can fine tune each application and CV and still have a basic, functioning default CV. And you can do all of that and still apply to 10-20 jobs a day, as long as you spend 4-5 hours a day doing it. Looking for a job is a full time job when you are unemployed. Treat it like one.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 16:49 |
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Eric the Mauve posted:No, he's loving lazy and all of that bullshit about mental blocks is rationalizing it. Mental blocks like that could be a manifestation of anxiety, depression, or OCD. I have issues with it all the time and it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I'm terrified of succeeding sometimes because it's easier to just shut down and not deal with the mental issues. Kind of a self-sabotage thing, I guess. quote:...refuses to even consider counseling. But this part makes him kind of a piece of poo poo.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 17:26 |
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Skinny King Pimp posted:Mental blocks like that could be a manifestation of anxiety, depression, or OCD. Could be, but I'm betting on lazy. Also those things aren't mutually exclusive from lazy.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 17:36 |
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Skinny King Pimp posted:Mental blocks like that could be a manifestation of anxiety, depression, or OCD. I have issues with it all the time and it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I'm terrified of succeeding sometimes because it's easier to just shut down and not deal with the mental issues. Kind of a self-sabotage thing, I guess. This sounds a lot like me, and I'm guessing it's something similar for him. Although maybe not quite the fear of succeeding, more like, the fear of failing so hard at actually trying to succeed that it's even more laughable than just sitting back and saying gently caress it. Part of what got me into my own personal mess was not feeling confident enough to study something "serious" instead of going to art school. Not that art doesn't take a ton of effort too to be successful, but it doesn't have the same kind of consequences to the world if you gently caress it up. I have really buckled down before once I actually figured out what I wanted to major in. I went from not doing my work or being afraid to show it to forcing myself to put my stuff up on the wall for critique before anybody else just to loving get it over with. And if it sucks or I don't like it, that doesn't matter now cause I don't have anything better to put up, just make something loving better next time. I try and hang onto that more productive image of myself, knowing it will take a similar amount of effort and openness to criticism to learn something different. But once I plowed through that and actually learned how to make some decent art, I realized hey wait, I graduated now but I never got around to learning any business skills... oh great, now I'm hosed. I'm terrified that my next move is just going to be a repeat of art school. That even if I work hard and learn a lot, I'll be completely blind to some super vital factor that's unspoken because it's so obvious to everyone else but not to me. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it a similar thing happened to me in high school. I was a bit more interested in music than visual art then. I was taking AP music theory in my freshman year and just kicking rear end at it alongside the juniors and seniors. I'd get all that homework done straight away, often at the expense of other subjects. Everything seemed great, but then after aceing AP music theory, the next course the school had available for me was a really freeform, unstructured class about electronic music composition. This was more self-directed stuff where they just threw you at some computers in a studio to play with it and have fun, work on the given theme or assignment for the month, and ask the teacher for advice when you needed it. I would better appreciate that kind of class now, but back in high school it was completely alien to me. I had no clue what to do, and I sucked at asking for help. I went from working on my music homework all the time to thinking I knew nothing and shouldn't ever study music. Of course, it probably is good that I never studied music, but this experience really hosed with my head and stuck with me. quote:But this part makes him kind of a piece of poo poo. Yeah, like I said in the OP the fact that he's not interested in therapy frustrates the hell out of me. He doesn't really get it, he seems to think I "just needed someone to talk to" and it's like a placebo effect or something. When I first started going he seemed to view it as a sign of failure, that our relationship was so messed up I couldn't just fix it by talking to him. Or like going to therapy proved you were messed up instead of finally giving you the tools to maybe fix that. But he has seen now that it actually worked for me, so he didn't criticise the idea at all this time when I said I wanted to go back for more. I'm going to try recording bits of it to play back or showing him my homework with the behavior analysis and all to give him a better idea of the reality. He really does need some therapy too, but he is so stubborn about doing anything on anyone else's advice. Even in innocuous things like fitness, not just stuff with a lot of stigma behind it like mental help. He usually won't just take my word on something or even try it until he's googled it 50 times and then maybe he'll come to the same conclusion like it's all his idea. He's been really good about jogging regularly and does it far more often than me, so that's good, but with weights he just picks up the heaviest one he possibly can and does like 1-2 reps with it and then that's all he does. There's some justification there about fast twitch muscles, but I tell him fast twitch or no, you're not really getting much of a workout if you only do each exercise with 1-2 reps, build up to it in a sequence from just a couple steps down already! Look at what I do, you can see how much my skinny chicken wing arms have built up in just a couple months! But no, he'll probably come back and start doing that a few months later after reading something else that finally convinced him, and then be like: "ooh, look at this article here Bifauxnen, I'm going to start structuring my workout this way, you should try this out too!" "Uh, you mean the way I've already been doing it and kept saying you should try but you ignored me? Yeah, thanks." But ugh, now that's stealing all the attention away again. I'd rather work more on my issues from the first paragraphs than try and sort out his poo poo.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 19:50 |
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Bifauxnen posted:But ugh, now that's stealing all the attention away again. I'd rather work more on my issues from the first paragraphs than try and sort out his poo poo. You are married. His poo poo (refusing to try properly to get a job, refusing to get therapy) IS your poo poo.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 20:10 |
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Masonity posted:You are married. His poo poo (refusing to try properly to get a job, refusing to get therapy) IS your poo poo. Her poo poo comes first if she's going to have any chance of breaking out of this emotional enmeshment cycle.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 20:23 |
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clammy posted:Her poo poo comes first if she's going to have any chance of breaking out of this emotional enmeshment cycle. The difficult question is whether she can break out of that cycle without breaking free of his presence in her life. If he is determined to remain a loser then the answer is no.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 20:25 |
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Eric the Mauve posted:If he is determined to remain a loser then the answer is no. This is sad but true. OP, your husband has to be willing to put effort into fixing his mental issues. It isn't bad to have depression or anxiety or OCD, but it IS bad to refuse help and make your loved ones suffer for it. If he keeps refusing, then you're going to have to be willing to deal with your issues, his issues, AND carry many of the adult responsibilities of the relationship. You will also have much, much lower chances of ever having real stability or of bringing children into a healthy home. I'm not telling you SEVER SEVER SEVER, but consider how much of your problems are worsened by the fact that your partner is being a big baby. I broke up with my first husband because he refused mental healthcare for years, and eventually I just got tired carrying both of us all the time. It not only affects your relationship, but how well you can address your personal issues, too. Don't be like me and waste years that way. He needs to get the gently caress over his stubbornness and handle his problems.
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| # ? Mar 9, 2013 20:48 |
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Telemaze posted:OP, your husband has to be willing to put effort into fixing his mental issues. It isn't bad to have depression or anxiety or OCD, but it IS bad to refuse help and make your loved ones suffer for it. If he keeps refusing, then you're going to have to be willing to deal with your issues, his issues, AND carry many of the adult responsibilities of the relationship. You will also have much, much lower chances of ever having real stability or of bringing children into a healthy home. I'm not telling you SEVER SEVER SEVER, but consider how much of your problems are worsened by the fact that your partner is being a big baby. Yes, that will be the main factor I think. Once I start my therapy again and can show him some more evidence of what I'm accomplishing on my career issues (instead of just issues with him), I'll invite him to come along or try getting his own personal sessions. I know it's not going to do him any drat good to just be pushed into therapy if he doesn't want it, but I'll have to explain to him why it's so drat important. For the record, last year with all the drama going on we did almost split up. It's something I considered all the time. Even when things started improving, (shortly before he lost his job) it bothered me that our communication had become so awful that he wouldn't listen to me until it was literally non-negotiable, to work on this poo poo or I'm out the door. The main reason I'm putting up with these job issues is because our communication has continued to improve a lot, and he's changed some behaviors that I'd started to think were just ingrained into his personality. That has to sound really pathetic to everyone rightly saying what big babies we are, but compared to how things were last year... yeah, he's made a lot of effort. The silent-treatment incident I wrote about made me so angry because it reminded me of those bad patterns. But I spewed my anger at the internet instead of at him, and he did follow through on talking with me in the morning after all, and it went well. Last year, it would have never gone well. I'd have either badgered him to talk until he blew up, or waited to talk and have that not help anyway cause once he did talk he'd still be angry and condescending, so then I'd blow up instead. I think the jogging and physical activity is helping, too. He's enthusiastic about this part of self-improvement at least, even if he's not doing weights the way I think he should.  Though he seems to be using good things like this to procrastinate on the most important thing he should be doing: the job search.It would be really lovely and kind of a mixed signal to leave him after he's actually made progress and improved things. I also know that we've made it through worse when it comes to employment. Things weren't pretty when he was trying to get his helpdesk job either, his resume was way more spotty and I was far, far more pessimistic and unhelpful. But he still managed to pull through. In my last round of therapy, it was mostly about fixing our communication problems because the relationship was causing me the most immediate pain and stress. That's made big strides now, so let's see if it works on our jobsearching hangups next. Maybe I'll remind him that I'm really happy about how our communication has improved, but it frustrated me that I had to be the one to go to therapy and work on it first. Although he might argue he didn't need it, the main thing that prompted him to make his changes was seeing the changes I had already made, which were made possible by the therapy to begin with.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 00:57 |
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I think your idea of showing him your homework from therapy is probably a good one. It'll show that it's not all 'talk about your feelings' but that it's actually about changing the way you think. Maybe you could even get him involved in helping you with your homework? Like ask him to point out if you're voicing a negative thought without combating it. (As long as that would be something you think would help and not overwhelm you). If that goes well, you could also try showing him moodgym (a free, online CBT course). He can look at it in his own time, doesn't need to talk to anyone about it and might possibly learn something.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 10:53 |
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I'm in a similar situation to yours (female pushing 30, employed in a good job, partner under-employed and anxious/depressed/intensely frustrated about his career situation, Australian, history of dodgy communication abilities, financial situation ruling out any babies in the near future). I'll try to offer some perspective. For what it's worth, I think you did the right things when faced with your husband in a bad mood. You gave him space, you let him come to you in his own time while patiently and gently giving him prompts to do so. You recognized your *own* need for rest and recuperation, and took yourself into a safe space that was nurturing (going to the cafe). This is absolutely NOT an easy thing to do, so you should give yourself that pat-on-the-back/positive affirmation every time you successfully support your partner and yourself in this way. Believe it or not, not everyone grows up knowing how to talk to another human being, or how to manage your own feelings--a lot of how you communicate and interact with your partner is learned from how your own parents interacted in front of you in your childhood. Are his folks the 'strong, silent'/repressed type? It does sound like your husband would benefit from some kind of education regarding managing his own mood states and communicative abilities--but he's entitled to not want to receive this via one on one talk therapy. It doesn't have to come from a face-to-face psychologist. One poster's suggested MoodGym, which is one good alternative. You could also pick up some books for him to read, if he's the type who likes to research and fix things on his own, at least to start with so he can approach the idea of therapy at his own pace (rather than being 'nagged' with it from you constantly). The Happiness Trap (Russ Harris) and The Mindful Way through Depression (Williams, Teasdale, Segal, Kabat-Zinn) are two that I'm reading at the moment which have been pretty interesting. This is excluding the possibility that your husband actually has some kind of brain chemical imbalance that is going to hamper his ability to do anything about his own mood states of course (needs a GP assessment-->psychiatrist referral). It's good he has exercise as an outlet, you should keep praising him on that and encourage him to do it every day. It's important to keep up the positive affirmations so that your partner can feel loved and supported, because it's drat easy to forget to do those little things. According to that Keeping Couples Happy program that's been on the ABC (still on I-View if you look it up on the ABC website) they aimed to get the couples to give each other at least 5 positive affirmations a day, e.g. "Thank you for hanging up the laundry, that's really good of you." "That's awesome that you did your workout today, you're looking really good and fit!". It might sound stupid, but it's really valuable in helping raise each other's self-esteem. One couple off that show, the guy wasn't good on saying it out loud so he would leave Post-It notes around the house for his wife to find which she was pretty happy about. Rather than talk face to face to you you could maybe ask him if he would prefer to go away and write you a letter to read out or give you, if that's easier for him to do, at least for now. I know I tend to write more clearly than I can speak most days, and it gives you space to consider your words a lot more. It sounds like you thought he was reneging on the 'contract' when he asked you if you could talk the next day instead and he called out to you halfway out the door, but maybe he thought you were being really abrupt because you were mad. Was it dark in the room? He might not have been able to see your face clearly so he might've been worried you were mad. Same with 'pestering' you while you were out. He might've been worried that he'd failed you after the highs of the previous days, so was trying to 'fix' any potential problems. My partner works himself up into depressive panics over such things, feeling like he's dissapointed me somehow is often enough to tip him into a blue funk for days which is incredibly counter-productive. I'm not a very good actor, but sometimes you need to be for their sake--stick on a 'I'm ok and I love and support you' face even if you don't feel it 100% if you care about getting through this. It helps to remember that they don't have an easy time of it either, and if they love you they're not setting out to hurt you. And it you love them and want to stay with them, fake it til you make it. I'm not saying lie or pretend everything is ok, but that sometimes you need to put on a brave face. You'd do it for your kid, right? There is a time and place where it is safe to air your grievances--when your partner is struggling with his own demons is not the best time. You'll just create an avalanche of poo poo and make both yourself AND him distraught instead of just one person being distraught. e.g. not bringing up painful horrible issues at 1 AM when you/he need to sleep for work the next morning, but doing it when you're both rested and in a more receptive mood. Takes immense discipline. At the end of the day, I don't think you're doing too badly. You've managed to move across the planet to one of the best countries in the world, are employed, am healthy, and for the most part you're doing the right things with regards to your husband. Don't lose sight of the bigger picture that you want your life to be, whatever that is--a better financial situation, a happier marriage, babies, whatever. Your husband isn't perfect, but it sounds like you have reasons to maintain the commitment you made to him when you got married. Stay strong!
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| # ? Mar 11, 2013 00:31 |
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Oh yay, I just got my first session booked in for next Monday, so just a week to wait now. I'll check out that mood gym site in the meantime, too. Thanks for the big effort reply. One thing that has usually kept me feeling positive is no matter what ends up happening with our relationship, I really am glad I had the opportunity to join my husband here in Australia, and I won't ever regret that because I know I'd be doing far worse in the States. Avoiding his problems would still have left me with my own pretty bad problems. And since we're so used to living frugally, once we both had decent jobs for a while we managed to pay off my US student loans, which is a lot more than a lot of people can do right now. The main thing making me panic is the kids issue. It's like the one thing we've actually been smart about. So it makes me depressed because I know I'm not going to pull any "oops" poo poo or just go for it. It's far more likely we're just not going to have children. If I end up having to put it off too long, I'm open to adoption, or if I have to abandon the idea entirely, I'm sure I can be just as fulfilled in life working for a cause instead of a kid. But since it's a looming deadline right now, it's making me anxious. But I guess I should just look at the bright side and fight for that career development harder without worrying about a pregnancy derailing it.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2013 03:01 |
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Welp, one way or the other, there are going to be some major changes this year. I just got confirmation that I've been accepted for a month-long internship back in the US, starting in October. I'm really excited, my husband's really excited, and he says this is really putting the pressure on him to get some poo poo done. This is also a major incentive for me to sort out a new job before I go, because I do NOT want to end up staying on in the States. Hopefully this internship will help get me noticed and considered for something here in sustainable building, which is the industry I'm trying to get into. If I don't get a new Aussie job sorted by then, I may just need to resign from my current job since this would be a major disruption during their busiest period, and they'd have to replace me. And if my husband hasn't sorted his poo poo out by then... Welp, I guess I'll end up just staying with my family in the States longer while I figure out where to go from there.
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| # ? Mar 15, 2013 02:37 |
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What age, in your opinion, is too late for kids?
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| # ? Mar 15, 2013 02:58 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 21:45 |
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Bifauxnen posted:Welp, one way or the other, there are going to be some major changes this year. I just got confirmation that I've been accepted for a month-long internship back in the US, starting in October. I'm really excited, my husband's really excited, and he says this is really putting the pressure on him to get some poo poo done. This is also a major incentive for me to sort out a new job before I go, because I do NOT want to end up staying on in the States. Hopefully this internship will help get me noticed and considered for something here in sustainable building, which is the industry I'm trying to get into. How about some baby talk to encourage you? Marriage go bye bye! almightyerin posted:What age, in your opinion, is too late for kids? IMHO: 45.
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| # ? Mar 15, 2013 16:43 |
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