Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«12 »
  • Post
  • Reply
KICK BAMA KICK
Mar 2, 2009

It's called the SEC for a reason.
It's about Straight Earning Cash.


Spiderweb Software is a veteran indie game developer run by Seattle's Jeff Vogel, who writes and codes each game. Renowned by fans of old-school RPGs in the vein of Baldur's Gate or Fallout, Spiderweb games make up for minimalist graphics and wonky interfaces with strong world-building, storytelling and role-playing opportunities. Founded in 1994, Spiderweb long relied on the "demoware" business model, offering niche products to a small audience of hardcore gamers until a recent renaissance via digital distribution. With several games having been recently featured in various indie bundles, you probably already own one of these.

What's all this about?
The presentation is isometric ("2.5D"), unadorned but simple and laptop-friendly, with extensive text descriptions doing the scene-setting the graphics can't. Gameplay, similar across all Spiderweb titles, is characterized by turn-based combat employing a system of action points similar to the first Fallout games -- rarely complex but with a fair amount of depth and variety of approaches. Each game can easily last 40 to 60 hours. Demos are always available and are extensive, offering a large, full-featured chunk of the game world.

The main attraction to many Spiderweb fans is in the degree of freedom players have to influence the story, which typically goes beyond a simple "good path"/"evil path" common to many modern RPGs. Settings are more inventive than the commonplace Tolkein/Star Wars pastiches that define so many games. Characters and factions are presented with surprising nuance. You're rarely locked into a certain path once you set upon it, allowing new information or a change of heart to influence your choices.

The caveat to all that talk about choice is that there's no save-importing feature in the style of Bioware sequels. Because the freedom you have in any single game is so vast, it's simply not feasible to reflect the different ways each player's game could end in the next entry. Sequels adopt one version of the story as canon. Mildly disappointing but inevitable, and personally in Geneforge I came to enjoy the opportunity to "reset" my roleplaying choices and perspective on the world in each entry, without feeling like I was betraying the decisions I'd made earlier.

Exile/Avernum

First coming to life as Exile in 1995, the series banishes the player to an underground prison society teeming with lizard- and cat-monsters. (Basically fantasy Australia.) Exile 2 and 3 followed in '95 and '96, and here's where things get complicated: several years later, when the old Exile engine was no longer fit for contemporary PCs, these three games were remade as Avernum 1, 2 and 3. A second trilogy followed in 2005, '07 and '09 as Avernum 4, 5 and 6. In 2011, when the original Avernum trilogy had subsequently aged out of relevance, Avernum 1 was remade in Spiderweb's modern engine as Avernum: Escape from the Pit and released for digital distribution via Steam and similar services. With the success of that project, Vogel has announced plans to do the same for Avernum 2 and 3, though not for 4-6 as they reportedly remain playable for now. No date has been annonced for the remake of Avernum 2, though it may be Vogel's next priority since the release of Avadon 2.

Avernum: Escape from the Pit (pictured) tasks the player with creating a four-character party from the start of the game. While there are some preset suggestions at character generation, there are no classes or real restrictions on your build. The vast cave networks that make up the game world are freely traveled on an overworld map, with combat taking place on a smaller grid when enemies are engaged. This first entry reputedly presents the player with the least restriction or guidance in terms of what to do in what order in the entire series and perhaps Spiderweb's catalog.

The series also spawned two non-canonical entries, Blades of Exile and its remake, Blades of Avernum, consisting of shorter scenarios and an editor allowing fans to create their won.
Avernum: Escape from the Pit on Steam
Avernum: The Second Trilogy on Steam

Avadon

Released in 2011 as Spiderweb's first product available on Steam, Avadon: The Black Fortress single-handedly won Vogel wider exposure and a new generation of fans. (It's the reason I'm writing this thread.) Building on the modern(ish) engine developed for Geneforge 5, Avadon is set in a relatively familiar fantasy realm. The player is cast as an agent of Avadon, the titular "black fortress" housing a multi-national coalition of special agents who keep the peace within a federation of allied states and guard against a hostile outside empire. While the setting and story aren't as inventive as Vogel's other work, a moment late in the game is one of my favorite examples of writing for the medium, exemplifying how a writer and a player committed to actual role-playing can successfully erase the distinction between player and character.

The player creates a single character in one of four classes. You have four NPC companions (one of each class) and choose two to accompany you each time you sally forth from the fortress on a quest. All have backstories and "loyalty quests" (though you may choose to resolve them in a manner that doesn't inspire loyalty). With this setup, any class you choose is perfectly viable; you just won't employ the NPC of your own class very often. Avadon: The Black Fortress is easily the most linear Spiderweb game, though you retain significant freedom to pursue sidequests and revisit previous areas as you choose. It's also probably the most forgiving in terms of mechanics, and thus a fine entry point to Spiderweb games.

In addition to Windows and Mac, Avadon: The Black Fortress is also available for Linux and Android, having been featured in the second Humble Android Bundle. The sequel, Avadon 2: The Corruption was released in November 2013, drawing some praise in this thread for being more open than its predecessor.
Avadon: The Black Fortress on Steam
Avadon 2: The Corruption on Steam

Geneforge

The Geneforge sci-fi/fantasy saga spans five games developed between 2001 and 2009. The Shapers, an elite sect of humans use magic and science to summon new life into existence, engineering a wide variety of creations to serve their masters. Eventually, some of these creations rebel while some remain loyal, and the player is caught in the middle. Two of the three playable classes are designed for the player to employ this mechanic of "shaping" themselves, summoning creations to assist them in battle. Creations are persistent, gain XP and level up in a limited manner.

In my experience, the best Geneforge games offer the widest freedom in terms of story and roleplaying of any Spiderweb game -- and any CRPG, period. The gameplay and interface are somewhat primitive compared to more recent titles, but if you're willing to get past that, this is a very rewarding experience.

Vogel has said he would like to eventually remake all his games as they approach obsolescence, like Exile/Avernum, but has announced no specific plans for Geneforge. It is important to note that the original version of the early games in this series do not run well on some modern PCs, though it does not appear to be tied to a particular operating system or identifiable problem and many users have no problems. Good Old Games has worked their usual magic on the versions they sell, fixing these issues, and thus that might be the best version to get. If you'd prefer the Steam version, try a demo, available from Spiderweb's site, to see if you are affected.

Oh: 2 > 1 > 4 > 5 >> 3.
Geneforge on Good Old Games (recommended) and Steam

Nethergate

Originally released in 1999 and remade as Nethergate: Resurrection in 2007. The lone game takes place during the Celts' rebellion against Roman rule, mixing historical and fantasy elements. Unique among Spiderweb games, Nethergate allows the player the choice to start the game on either the Roman or the Celtic side and experience the adventure differently. Haven't played myself so can't comment further.
Nethergate: Resurrection on Steam

Links
Spiderweb Software
Official Spiderweb forums
Jeff Vogel's blog
My Geneforge thread, now in the archives

This thread covers upwards of a dozen games. Please take care to tag your spoilers.

KICK BAMA KICK fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2013 around 23:50

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Srice
Sep 11, 2011



It should be noted that you can buy Avernum 1-6 on GoG for the exact same price that the 4-6 bundle goes for on Steam:

http://www.gog.com/gamecard/avernum_the_complete_saga

$12 for all 6 games is a steal considering how much mileage you get out of them, and it's a great starting point for anyone who's interested in these sorts of games.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Smoke me a kipper,
I'll be back for breakfast!


Alright well, I guess I'll start us off with a question about Avernum: Escape From the Pit: I'm still pretty early in, and have paid a beggar in the mining fort for information, which has led me to a cave a bit further north of the town, in order to find a spider named Spider, in order to get a quest of it. Although when I get there, they're all named Spider (naturally) and half of them either don't say anything and run off, or just speak about their day-to-day lives; none of them telling me anything about what I need to know. So what I'm wondering is, am I in the right cave? Is there another similar one right nearby, or have I just somehow missed the spider I'm supposed to speak with? Thanks

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


Major Isoor posted:

Alright well, I guess I'll start us off with a question about Avernum: Escape From the Pit: I'm still pretty early in, and have paid a beggar in the mining fort for information, which has led me to a cave a bit further north of the town, in order to find a spider named Spider, in order to get a quest of it. Although when I get there, they're all named Spider (naturally) and half of them either don't say anything and run off, or just speak about their day-to-day lives; none of them telling me anything about what I need to know. So what I'm wondering is, am I in the right cave? Is there another similar one right nearby, or have I just somehow missed the spider I'm supposed to speak with? Thanks

You've just missed the spider you need to speak with. I forget exactly where it is, but I think it's one of the ones that stays mostly in one place rather than moving all around the cave.

particle409
Jan 15, 2008

Thou bootless clapper-clawed varlot!


Can we talk about pricing? Vogel used to sell each game for $25 shareware. He always stated that the work he put in justified the high price. I think a lot of people used to pirate his games though. I remember he briefly mentioned how Steam sales brought in a lot of money, but I recall he came across a little bitter that he had to sell his games so cheaply.

edit:
Maybe I'm wrong about the bitterness part.

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011...ow-cheaper.html

quote:

Now: A quality Indie niche game sells on big portals for ten bucks at most. More than that and people think you're crazy and move on.
Then: Most good shareware games sold for $25. It took me a very long time just to realize that that price isn't normal anymore.

particle409 fucked around with this message at Mar 9, 2013 around 06:38

Babby Sathanas
May 16, 2006

bearbating is now adorable


His price point made sense because he didn't have the exposure to make up the required numbers for selling it at lower prices, he only had his hardcore core audience. He knew his customers very well, he has been doing this for over a decade.

With the invite to Steam he decided to go with what Valve said as they know their customers well. He's just a realist and very clever.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


His argument back in the day was basically "if I sell for $10 instead of $30, I need three times as many sales, and I'm not confident the market exists." Steam pretty much proved that yes, the market exists. He was a little bitter about having to lower his prices until the precise moment his first set of Steam sales figures for Avadon came in and it turned out it had already outsold every other game he's ever made, at which point he was too busy rolling around in a giant pool of money to care how much he was making per unit.

Apparently the iPad port of Avadon has been a surprise hit for him too -- he took a chance on it not knowing if it'd sell on that platform, and it's way exceeded his expectations. You can probably expect iPad releases of all future games. (Unfortunately the Android port was far less successful, and he's said he won't do another unless a trustworthy organisation offers to handle the porting process for him on the cheap, as happened with the Humble Bundle he was involved in.)

Magnus The Red
Oct 25, 2010

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. If you don't take it out and use it, it's going to rust.


I bought Nethergate back when it first came out and enjoyed it immensely. I liked the ability to make a completely customized party using the point system spent on stats, training, negative and positive attributes (not being able to touch magic items, having a stronger constitution etc.). The two sides also provide significantly different game play as the Romans hate/fear magic and have superior weapons and armor. It's been a while since I've played it but I believe the Celts refused to wield metal weapons or the heavy armor of Romans. Graphics are somewhat dated compared to his newer games but was a fairly long game.

synertia
Sep 20, 2005

We have important work to do.

Baby Sathanas posted:


With the invite to Steam he decided to go with what Valve said as they know their customers well. He's just a realist and very clever.

I've messed around with all the games he's released on GoG and they are all uniformly rad. He deserves all the money he's getting.

Songbearer
Jul 12, 2007


Fuck you say?


Avernum? Nah. Exile? gently caress yes! I played the everloving hell out of Exile when I found it on PC Zone on shareware disks as a little kid, even when I didn't really understand what was going on I loved the world building, the keyword based dialouge system, and the flexible party management. I even did some sprite editing and changed one of the character sprites into a badass MSpaint guy with an assault rifle rather than a staff

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.

Along with Songbearer, I recieved a copy of Exile way back in the day, on a shareware floppy (my dad used to belong to this Mac shareware club, which meant that every month, I got a packet of like 15 floppies just packed with games). Exile was always a blast, but being a kid with no money, I only ever played the unlocked portion of the games; for Exile, the cutoff was when you had to go away from the town and through a cave wall. Normally this would be the point where you received a message that you needed to register to continue, and I will never forget hitting ok, and instead of exiting out, the game kept going. I still have no idea what bug I stumbled on or exactly how it worked, but the game completely registered itself and I was ecstatic. At least until some time later (a year?) when my dad upgraded the hard drive and some other components of our Apple LC3 and of course the game was back to being unregistered. Never got it to happen again.

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone

I remember playing those shareware Exile demos over and over again, restarting whenever the shareware demon locked me out of the rest of the game. I just assumed I would never experience the full game because I could never convince my mom to send a check to some random guy's basement in Seattle. It's pretty awesome how I can now get the whole series for practically a pittance as an adult

TehGherkin
May 24, 2008


I too have fond childhood memories of the shareware demon and not really knowing what I was actually doing

I think I'll buy the entire Avernum series. Is there anything I should know before going in? I really enjoyed Geneforge and Avadon though I've (sadly) not completed them yet.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012


TehGherkin posted:

I too have fond childhood memories of the shareware demon and not really knowing what I was actually doing

I think I'll buy the entire Avernum series. Is there anything I should know before going in? I really enjoyed Geneforge and Avadon though I've (sadly) not completed them yet.
The big thing I'd mention is just to keep in mind that all because you *can* access a dungeon doesn't mean you need to clear it right away. There are a couple places in every game (and way too many in Avernum 6) where one particular dungeon/enemy is wildly overpowered compared with the rest of the area and you're actually intended to come back later.

This also has a nice feel of payback when you come back and mercilessly slaughter the stuff which was so troublesome earlier.

MeramJert
Jul 2, 2005
I'M TOO GOOD TO EAT HUMAN HAIR

My dad loved the Exile games when I was growing up, and I sat beside the computer and watched him play through all 3. Eventually I played the heck out of Exile 3 myself, although I never could get into Avernum, even though it's basically the same game.

mrs. nicholas sarkozy
Jan 1, 2006

~let me see ya bounce that bounce that~

TehGherkin posted:

I too have fond childhood memories of the shareware demon and not really knowing what I was actually doing

I think I'll buy the entire Avernum series. Is there anything I should know before going in? I really enjoyed Geneforge and Avadon though I've (sadly) not completed them yet.

Me too! I played the Exile III demo for like 30+ hours back in the day. All I can really remember is falling into a giant trash pit full of giants and worms or something. I'm excited for the remake of that one. Playing the new Avernum remake was pretty cool because I kind of remembered the basic plot, but not enough to be bored by it.

I'm glad Vogel is making his stuff more widely available for cheaper. I hope he's making good money.

Right now I'm playing through Geneforge 1 and finding it pretty hard but good. I remember reading that some of the Geneforge games aren't as good as the others and can be skipped, anybody know if that's true?

KICK BAMA KICK
Mar 2, 2009

It's called the SEC for a reason.
It's about Straight Earning Cash.


mrs. nicholas sarkozy posted:

Me too! I played the Exile III demo for like 30+ hours back in the day. All I can really remember is falling into a giant trash pit full of giants and worms or something. I'm excited for the remake of that one. Playing the new Avernum remake was pretty cool because I kind of remembered the basic plot, but not enough to be bored by it.

I'm glad Vogel is making his stuff more widely available for cheaper. I hope he's making good money.

Right now I'm playing through Geneforge 1 and finding it pretty hard but good. I remember reading that some of the Geneforge games aren't as good as the others and can be skipped, anybody know if that's true?

2 was my favorite. 3 is the consensus worst. It's much more linear and less nuanced in the choices available to the player, and marred by a really annoying travel mechanic. Does make some needed improvements to the interface and have some interesting areas. Didn't loathe it or anything but it's kind of a placeholder just advancing the plot a bit. 4 and 5 aren't quite on the level of 1 or 2 but they return to the more open world, more complex politics and make a fine conclusion to the series.

Ass-Haggis
May 27, 2011

asproigerosis confirmed

The original Exile trilogy, man that was some good times. And I have sunk so many hours into Blades of Exile and Blades of Avernum that it isn't even funny. If another Blades game were to be released (Jeff said that it'll never happen) I would probably just go through the roof, man.
Spiderweb Software has been a great source of entertainment for me for the majority of my life, and the entirety of my active gaming life, I just love these guys man. Vogel and his kin should be proud that they made so many dudes happy with the things they've gotten done.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008
I poked a badger with a spoon.

If I may jump in to this new, fresh thread (for which I thank the OP), GOG really is the place for these games now. The only one that they do not have is Nethergate (which is on Steam), but one can acquire Avernum 1-6 with Blades for one very modest price, the Geneforge Quintet for $14.99 base, and then Avadon is sold stand-alone. All of the games should run right from the off without any headaches; GOG has some genuine wizards on staff that are so good at getting old titles to be modern-system friendly, and there is no DRM at all and no client. I think that they are the best digital distribution gaming company around, even if they do not have the marketing, resources, and library of giants like Steam.

nftyw
Dec 27, 2006

It is a game... where you will put your life on the line.


I mostly played the Exile and Avernum trilogy, the more recent games I skipped on, but those games by themselves gave me a lot of gametime. Blades was also great, even withot going for add on compaigns. One thing I really enjoyed was making a party of full magic types with brittle bones and completely inept, you would think it would fail horrifically but magic and summoned monsters kept you out of melee, and you gained levels so fast your artillery got really mean really fast. Even magic immune creatures cant handle four blessed archers with haste and four swarms of lizards.

Whybird
Aug 2, 2009


Blades was pretty great, and the scenario editor was easy enough to use that the game had a fun mix of actually-good scenarios and comically-bad esque ones. If the whole thing wasn't so slow paced, some custom Blades scenarios would be a fun LP.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012


Whybird posted:

Blades was pretty great, and the scenario editor was easy enough to use that the game had a fun mix of actually-good scenarios and comically-bad esque ones. If the whole thing wasn't so slow paced, some custom Blades scenarios would be a fun LP.

The problem I always had with Blades is that the difficulty curves for anything except very low end and very high end scenarios were horribly hard to balance simply because while you can post a level range, it's not really indicative, since a party that went through a scenario that gives out Knowledge Brews or skill trainers is going to be significantly more powerful than a party of the same level which hasn't had that chance. So I found a lot of scenarios were either cakewalks (very common) or unbelievably tough (rarer), even if my party was right in the expected level range.

Whybird
Aug 2, 2009


Yeah, it didn't help that even in the regular scenarios you could pass with flying colours and find every bit of loot that was up for the taking or just skim through and miss a bunch of stuff. Also, the BoE stats had a lot of trap options, so it was pretty easy to build your characters into a corner anyway.

It didn't make wandering through the fever-dream outpourings of some internet nerd's mind any less fun though.

BKPR
Nov 11, 2007

i'm the motherfuckin trapezoid

I'm about 8 hours into Geneforge 1 and I feel like it's kind o a slog. I can enter a new area and kill two or three enemies before I have to return to a town and remake my creations. Is this a speccing issue? I'm playing a true shaper, and generally put all of my essence into the creations I make.

KICK BAMA KICK
Mar 2, 2009

It's called the SEC for a reason.
It's about Straight Earning Cash.


BKPR posted:

I'm about 8 hours into Geneforge 1 and I feel like it's kind o a slog. I can enter a new area and kill two or three enemies before I have to return to a town and remake my creations. Is this a speccing issue? I'm playing a true shaper, and generally put all of my essence into the creations I make.

Possibly you're facing enemies that are just too strong for you right now, but yeah, creations should be more persistent that what you're describing. Maybe post some details about your stats, what creations you're using, what enemies you're encountering. Also remember you should be using a lot of spells and potions to buff your party when you enter combat.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012


BKPR posted:

I'm about 8 hours into Geneforge 1 and I feel like it's kind o a slog. I can enter a new area and kill two or three enemies before I have to return to a town and remake my creations. Is this a speccing issue? I'm playing a true shaper, and generally put all of my essence into the creations I make.

When you say "all" does that mean you don't have any left for support spells? If so, that's a huge part of your problem. GF1's spell choice is more limited than most of the series, but even still, you should absolutely be using War Blessing (+20% damage and to-hit) liberally, along with Heal when creations get low. Also, while your creations should do most of the work, you should be tossing out Firebolt (which is, for all intents and purposes, free) whenever you don't have anything better to do.

Also, how are you using the essence? Putting essence into creations to raise their stats is usually not too efficient. You need 2 Intelligence for them to be controllable (you ARE doing that, right?), but beyond that, it's generally better to save up and have several Fyoras with minimal stats than only one Fyora with lots of stats.

Remora
Aug 15, 2010


MagusofStars posted:

beyond that, it's generally better to save up and have several Fyoras with minimal stats than only one Fyora with lots of stats.

I thought there was an experience penalty past a certain number of creations?

\/\/\/ Ah, my bad. That makes more sense. And makes me feel way better about making a Fyorarmy.

Remora fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2013 around 14:04

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012


Remora posted:

I thought there was an experience penalty past a certain number of creations?

I don't think it's an experience penalty past a certain number as much as it is that every single creation leeches away a bit of XP. However, it's mostly counterbalanced by the fact that you get less XP at higher levels.

The solo character gets more XP faster early, but then reaches a level where the XP gains are either absurdly trivial (you gained 5 XP!) or even the cute "You're too high level to gain XP from this". The Shaper walking around with an army has gotten less XP, so he might be two levels behind at this point, but he's still gaining XP from those same actions, so he closes the gap.

The solo character will obviously always be equal or higher level, but the difference is pretty minimal.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


MagusofStars posted:

I don't think it's an experience penalty past a certain number as much as it is that every single creation leeches away a bit of XP. However, it's mostly counterbalanced by the fact that you get less XP at higher levels.

The solo character gets more XP faster early, but then reaches a level where the XP gains are either absurdly trivial (you gained 5 XP!) or even the cute "You're too high level to gain XP from this". The Shaper walking around with an army has gotten less XP, so he might be two levels behind at this point, but he's still gaining XP from those same actions, so he closes the gap.

The solo character will obviously always be equal or higher level, but the difference is pretty minimal.

If you want an idea of the actual magnitude of the XP loss for having creations, I've played through Geneforge 4 a couple of times: I did a solo run where I never used creations, did pretty much every sidequest in the game and ended up at level 47, and another run where I focused heavily on shaping, had between 4 and 7 creations for most of the game and ended up at level 43. People get worried about having to share experience with their creations, but in practice it's not a big deal.

Bold Robot
Jan 6, 2009

Be brave.


Exile 3 was an amazing game, I got it on a MacAddict shareware disc back in the day. It was the first shareware game I ever registered.

I've been playing the new Avernum and it's pretty great, but I can't wait for him to remake Avernum 3 (which is itself a remake of Exile 3). Much cooler setting and story.

Always glad to see Vogel get some recognition, not too many people from the shareware era are still out there making great games.

Medieval Medic
Sep 8, 2011


I may not have the long standing experience with these games a lot of people have, having only gotten into this series only like 5 years ago, but these games are great and I recommend them to anyone who likes oldschool RPGs and lots of exploration.

Fart of Presto
Feb 9, 2001


BKPR posted:

I'm about 8 hours into Geneforge 1 and I feel like it's kind o a slog. I can enter a new area and kill two or three enemies before I have to return to a town and remake my creations. Is this a speccing issue? I'm playing a true shaper, and generally put all of my essence into the creations I make.
For me it felt like a slog too, and after 52 hours, according to Steam, I quit Geneforge 1. At that point I was a level 15 or 16 Shaper and while I had cleared 2/3 of the map (I checked afterwards), I really felt like everything stalled.
The few side quests I hadn't done right away, I got no XP for, as I was apparently at a too high level to gain XP from those. The only way I could get XP was by doing the main quest, which kicked my rear end left and right, unless I employed the same tactic as you just mentioned.

Before starting out, I had read a lot about the openness which is probably why something went wrong, as I (main quest spoiler) decidedly didn't join a sect, thus not getting any side quests from any factions. The reason was that I honestly didn't care for any of the sects, I just wanted to get off the drat island.
In hindsight that might not have been the best decision but that's how I played it.
And while the graphics and sound didn't bother me at all, I really started to hate the interface at around the 40 hour mark, which also pushed me to just quit after those 50+ hours.

I still plan on playing Geneforge 2, this time with a bit different approach, but first I want a modern interface, so my next Spiderweb game will be Avernum: Escape from the Pit.

(Oh, and great OP!)

nftyw
Dec 27, 2006

It is a game... where you will put your life on the line.


Bold Robot posted:

Exile 3 was an amazing game, I got it on a MacAddict shareware disc back in the day. It was the first shareware game I ever registered.

I've been playing the new Avernum and it's pretty great, but I can't wait for him to remake Avernum 3 (which is itself a remake of Exile 3). Much cooler setting and story.

Always glad to see Vogel get some recognition, not too many people from the shareware era are still out there making great games.

I'm pretty sure Avernum 3 has been out for awhile?? http://www.avernum.com/avernum3/index.html

Granted it's not using the new, fancy game setup but if you're used to Exile style system mechanics it's probably more intuitive to return to.

e: Or, wait, is Vogel making remakes of the remakes now? Oh god he is, with the same name too?

nftyw fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2013 around 21:43

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone

To be fair, the guy's reasoning is that these re-remakes on the updated engine will play nicer on modern systems, something that his older games are starting to struggle with. I don't really take it as a craven cash grab or a rehash of stale ideas. It's sort of when Exile first became Avernum: perhaps the same core idea but with updated gameplay and graphics and content. This is my second time double-dipping (triple-dipping? ) into technically the same game, but I feel I got my money's worth with all the new dungeons, gameplay elements, and refinements put into the new Avernum. I guess the benefit is that completely new people to the series get to play the definitive version while old fans have something new to experience on a second go around.

I've played all the Spiderweb games and I still feel like the new Avernum does enough things differently to be worth buying again. Still, if you're on the fence, I'd probably wait for the inevitable low-priced bundle after the other games come out.

Sankis
Mar 8, 2004

But I remember the fella who told me. Big lad. Arms as thick as oak trees, a stunning collection of scars, nice eye patch. A REAL therapist he was. Er wait. Maybe it was rapist?



nftyw posted:

I'm pretty sure Avernum 3 has been out for awhile?? http://www.avernum.com/avernum3/index.html

Granted it's not using the new, fancy game setup but if you're used to Exile style system mechanics it's probably more intuitive to return to.

e: Or, wait, is Vogel making remakes of the remakes now? Oh god he is, with the same name too?

They're not QUITE the same names. He's using the Avernum titles, which were just Avernum and a number, along with the old exile subtitles. So you have Avernum 1: Escape from the Pit.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012


moot the hopple posted:

To be fair, the guy's reasoning is that these re-remakes on the updated engine will play nicer on modern systems, something that his older games are starting to struggle with. I don't really take it as a craven cash grab or a rehash of stale ideas. It's sort of when Exile first became Avernum: perhaps the same core idea but with updated gameplay and graphics and content. This is my second time double-dipping (triple-dipping? ) into technically the same game, but I feel I got my money's worth with all the new dungeons, gameplay elements, and refinements put into the new Avernum. I guess the benefit is that completely new people to the series get to play the definitive version while old fans have something new to experience on a second go around.

Part of his reasoning is is also that it only takes a relatively small amount of time for him to update the old games. Can't remember the exact quote, but he discussed the topic on his (now-dead) blog a while back and said that it only took a couple months of effort, as opposed to the ~1 yr to build a brand new game from scratch. So while you may argue with his reasoning or not want to buy it if you've played the others, at least it's not really distracting him too much from creating new games.

That said, frankly if there's one of his games that desperately needs updating, it's not Avernum, it's the first Geneforge. Because he was still figuring out the system, the options are too limited, particularly with magic, which really lacks stopping power. The issues that people have mentioned with keeping creations alive and the overall difficulty of the game? Vastly improved in G2, simply due to the presence of Daze, Protection, and just generally more multi-target abilities. Later games also do a better job of managing the XP curve, so you still gain XP more or less right up until the end of the game rather than plateauing like Presto mentions. It's also ridiculously unmotivating to fight off a horde of enemies just to see a bunch of messages saying "You can't gain XP from this because you have been fighting everything and doing all quests up to this point. Suck it." Okay, technically it doesn't quite say that, but that's the real message.

Palpek
Dec 27, 2008


Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned
me about it.


Nobody wrote this yet so:

The current Build a Bundle 5 offers Geneforge Saga as a free bonus

It costs as much as $1.50 to get all 5 games on Steam.

1 day and 10 hours left to get on this.

KICK BAMA KICK
Mar 2, 2009

It's called the SEC for a reason.
It's about Straight Earning Cash.


Nethergate's also one of the choices in the above build-a-bundle.

Avadon is part of the current Indie Royale with eight days left.

All Spiderweb games on Steam are 50% off for its current Indie Spring Sale through March 29.

BKPR
Nov 11, 2007

i'm the motherfuckin trapezoid

Thanks to everyone who threw in thoughts about my situation. After some annoyance, I decided I would just max my stats, see how the story goes, and start fresh (and better informed) on Geneforge 2.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

KICK BAMA KICK
Mar 2, 2009

It's called the SEC for a reason.
It's about Straight Earning Cash.


Just noticed this interview with Vogel from last month; nothing terribly exciting but he mentions Avadon 2 is looking like a fall release. Also screenshots.

The first might not be anyone's favorite Spiderweb game but I'm still looking forward to actual new content and modern polish.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«12 »