|
I've completed the first Geneforge, and from what I've seen of Geneforge 2, exploring areas for no particular reason, and retreating when the monsters within are too strong, is pretty standard. There are areas like the Saltmarsh which are too dangerous considering how early you can reach them. Later, when I came back, it was little more than a speed bump.
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
Phenotype posted:I'm surprised to hear that about Battle Shaping -- the rogue thahds are one of the scariest enemies because they can still one-shot my PC, and now that I've bought the Create Thahd spell he's my heaviest hitter. I gained a few levels and cleared out the Infested Forest and Drypeak Mines, and my Artilas are definitely starting to pull their weight. The problem with melee units in the early games is that you need 5AP or whatever to make an attack. Jeff Vogel realized that it isn't really fun for a unit to spend his entire turn closing in with an enemy and then not being able to do anything else at the end of that turn, so it was changed in later games to allow an attack if you have any remaining action points left over. Battle shaping also got more versatile units, including ranged types, added in later games to help it out, but it's still the weakest choice IMHO. Fire shaping is probably the most versatile of the creation types because it's not just straight fire damage - you have acid, ice, and physical melee as well. Magic shaping gets amazing as soon as you get vlish (which are one of the strongest creations in some of the games) and have nice status effects to attacks. If you're playing a shaper, you could probably max out all the creation skills but I tend to focus only on healing, fire, and magic creation and forsake battle shaping so that I can get buffing magic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
Thuryl posted:Unfortunately, though, Battle Shaping is pretty disappointing in every game except Geneforge 5. It's pretty funny - battle shaping was the worst of the three through most of the series, then Geneforge 5 happens and suddenly battle shaping is amazingly powerful and wipes the floor with everything else. GO, MY SCORPION ARMY!
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2014 08:32
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:It's pretty funny - battle shaping was the worst of the three through most of the series, then Geneforge 5 happens and suddenly battle shaping is amazingly powerful and wipes the floor with everything else. It might be the worst of them, but it's by no means useless in the other games. The problem is just that Battle creations simply don't have the damage output to compare with the others, but they still make solid meatshields. Honestly, unless you're playing on Torment, it's an entirely viable strategy to just raise all of the creation skills enough to make any creation, then pour the rest of your points into Intelligence. Each individual creation ends up a bit weaker than if you'd specialized in one branch, but with enough INT, quantity makes up for it. And maybe it's just me, but I find it far more interesting to have several different creations than just running around with all Vlish.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2014 15:00
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:How long is this game supposed to be? I'm wondering when I'm going to find Barzhul's village, since I've been traipsing through unrelated areas for a while now. It's at a map edge that is far away from your starting point. Finding it means you are probably 1/3rd to 1/2 of the way through the game, depending on the order you do things. I could tell you the direction, but it will become obvious eventually, you don't need to rush that quest in particular your first time through the game, and the cities are visible on the overworld map. This is a pretty long game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 00:29
|
|
|
MiltonSlavemasta posted:It's at a map edge that is far away from your starting point. Finding it means you are probably 1/3rd to 1/2 of the way through the game, depending on the order you do things. I could tell you the direction, but it will become obvious eventually, you don't need to rush that quest in particular your first time through the game, and the cities are visible on the overworld map. I finally arrived in Medab, and they told me Barzhul's village is south of there, although it seems like I need to do some stuff around town first. I was just kinda puzzled about where to go, because nothing I saw seemed to lead to the main quest. I still kinda want to rush there to meet all the factions, but I doubt I can handle it. I'm already having to take enemies very carefully where I am. You're right about the length, though, if the map is any indication. When I finally left the secret tunnel, it was the first time the fog of war was lifted from the map, and I actually had to stop for a minute to appreciate how big it was. That was a neat little moment. Couple questions: Is there any better way to regen my essence when I reach a town? I've been in the habit of arriving in town with all my minions, absorbing them, then having to re-enter town to summon new ones. And should I be doing that? I pretty much adventure till my guys are dead, or close to it, then go to town and summon a new crew. Also, is there any gear I should be looking out for anytime soon? The only two items I have that aren't incredibly common are an artila-skin tunic and Carnelian Gloves.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:Is there any better way to regen my essence when I reach a town? I've been in the habit of arriving in town with all my minions, absorbing them, then having to re-enter town to summon new ones. I tend to reassorb and make new creations whenever I increase my shaping skills or pop a creation canister because I'm typically able to increase those skills faster and make better units than if I kept around my same starting units and tried to level them up through combat experience. I also only put two points in their intelligence so I can control them, but that's it for stats. As a shaper, my army is basically disposable because I'm always able to make a more effective batch, but an agent or guardian with limited shaping skills might find it more cost effective to keep around their units longer. For gear, my main concern is encumbrance, which is a bigger factor in the early games because it counts equipment as well as stuff carried in your inventory for your maximum carry weight. My main character shaper isn't much of an active participant in battles outside of buffing and doesn't go out in the frontlines so I'm fine with giving him lighter stuff. There's also weapons like Symbiotic (or Living?) Knife that drains your own stats but correspondingly increases your creations, a trade off that works well for a shaper army.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 03:59
|
|
|
moot the hopple posted:For gear, my main concern is encumbrance, which is a bigger factor in the early games because it counts equipment as well as stuff carried in your inventory for your maximum carry weight. My main character shaper isn't much of an active participant in battles outside of buffing and doesn't go out in the frontlines so I'm fine with giving him lighter stuff. There's also weapons like Symbiotic (or Living?) Knife that drains your own stats but correspondingly increases your creations, a trade off that works well for a shaper army. Yeah, the encumbrance is a little annoying -- my guy maxes at 66 pounds, and my armor, weapons, and consumables put me at about 48 by themselves. And since my shaper is still one-shot by a lot of monsters, I would get absolutely 0 use out of adding strength besides the carry weight. It seems a little ridiculous for that guy to be asking for IRON BARS, of all things. Even with his little quest, I just leave them lying around where I find them. I seriously hope there's no other items I should have been holding onto, because I sell everything I bother bringing to town. I heard someone tell me that I can make magic items with the mined crystals I found, but they're so heavy I really hope I find the crafters soon. I wish these games picked up more publicity, maybe with the Baldur's Gate community. I am seriously blown away with how well-done this game is, and I'd bet anyone willing to buy the BG rereleases would love this. It doesn't play well on my machine, but it's strong enough that I can almost ignore the terrible sluggishness on my mouse. I hope the guy redoes these games in a more modern engine -- it was a major barrier to getting into the game, and apparently it's pretty common on 64-bit systems.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 11:14
|
|
|
moot the hopple posted:For gear, my main concern is encumbrance, which is a bigger factor in the early games because it counts equipment as well as stuff carried in your inventory for your maximum carry weight. My main character shaper isn't much of an active participant in battles outside of buffing and doesn't go out in the frontlines so I'm fine with giving him lighter stuff. There's also weapons like Symbiotic (or Living?) Knife that drains your own stats but correspondingly increases your creations, a trade off that works well for a shaper army. Honestly, the fact that encumbrance counts both equipment and inventory stuff makes the intent of the mechanic kinda worthless. Because the encumbrance limits were set assuming that your character is wearing equipment and carrying excess stuff, if you just dump the excess stuff, the entire mechanic is worthless. Later games, where encumbrance is based exclusively on equipped items (and the encumbrance limits are correspondingly lower), actually have the mechanic serve a purpose, since you need to actually consider your equipment load and run into issues where you need to make weight tradeoffs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 11:49
|
|
|
MagusofStars posted:Honestly, the fact that encumbrance counts both equipment and inventory stuff makes the intent of the mechanic kinda worthless. Because the encumbrance limits were set assuming that your character is wearing equipment and carrying excess stuff, if you just dump the excess stuff, the entire mechanic is worthless. Later games, where encumbrance is based exclusively on equipped items (and the encumbrance limits are correspondingly lower), actually have the mechanic serve a purpose, since you need to actually consider your equipment load and run into issues where you need to make weight tradeoffs. This was kinda the style at the time, though. Baldur's Gate does it too, I believe. I don't think it's supposed to be a limit on your wearable gear -- games tend to have other methods of stopping wizards from walking around in full plate. I recognize it as a welcome respite from OCD wanting me to pick up every bit of trash I see for the resale.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 11:55
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:This was kinda the style at the time, though. Baldur's Gate does it too, I believe. I don't think it's supposed to be a limit on your wearable gear -- games tend to have other methods of stopping wizards from walking around in full plate. I recognize it as a welcome respite from OCD wanting me to pick up every bit of trash I see for the resale. BG does, but it also has the limit also slow down your walking speed (and at extreme levels of overloaded, immobilize your PC) so you can't just run around and grab everything later. Since the Spidweb games only have encumbrance matter during battle, it's easy to just cheese the whole mechanic by only looting after you've cleared the zone. Walk around below the limit while clearing the zone by not touching anything, then once all the battles are over, you pick up everything and give zero craps about the fact you're walking around at 432/50 encumbrance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 12:00
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:I seriously hope there's no other items I should have been holding onto, because I sell everything I bother bringing to town. Set aside Shaper records and Shaper equipment in these games because there'll be specific NPCs who give you more cash for them plus quest rewards and quest experience.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 22:16
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:I seriously hope there's no other items I should have been holding onto, because I sell everything I bother bringing to town. I heard someone tell me that I can make magic items with the mined crystals I found, but they're so heavy I really hope I find the crafters soon. Geneforge is pretty good for not rewarding being a hoarder too heavily. There are generic items that NPCs will want for quests, but most of them are pretty common and you can find more elsewhere. In later games there are a couple of crafting ingredients that are unique, but their description text signposts them as 'yo this is rare and valuable, don't lose it' pretty well (plus, you can finish the game without them -- they just help you get high-level equipment)
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 23:50
|
|
|
All this Geneforgechat is making me want to have another go at GF2, even though this requires installing a VM (because it is completely hosed in both Wine and Steam Home Streaming). 
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2014 03:52
|
|
|
Would some kind soul summarize for me the differences between Escape from the Pit and Avernum 1? Exile 1 is just too old and clunky for me, and I could never enjoy it after that brilliant LP that was done on this forum, so I'm trying to decide which one to play. Playing the remake of the remake instead of just the remake seems like a no-brainer, but they got rid of 6-man parties from Exile so they may have done even more dumb poo poo with EftP. That said, EftP is a really nice-looking game... much moreso than Avernum 1, but graphics don't mean much in RPG's.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2014 00:56
|
|
|
I like both games a lot, and haven't played the re-remake for quite some time, but the biggest difference is probably the skill system. In A1, everyone has the same available skills, and you put points into the stats and skills you want. You can specialize very carefully if you want. In EftP, you have classes, basically, and the skill system is more of a skill tree. You build up towards passive/active skills that you really want. The main quests are pretty much the same, although I believe the newer one has an extra quest or two, and maybe a new area. It's a little more streamlined in EftP, but I was thankful that the game still had a world map and the ability to move with the number pad. What I love about A1, 2, and 3 is that you can pop around checking for secret walls with the number pad and move around the world map really fast. That said, I don't recall there being secret walls in EftP, but you just looked for buttons (kind of pixel hunting to an extent) and pressed them to open up secret rooms/passages. I replay A1 thru 3 every couple of years, but I haven't replayed EftP. That said, I am extremely excited for Jeff's remake of Avernum 2, and if it gets the same treatment as Avernum 1 did, it's going to be great.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2014 01:05
|
|
|
Chinook posted:In EftP, you have classes, basically, and the skill system is more of a skill tree. You build up towards passive/active skills that you really want. A:EftP doesn't have character classes as such, but it's true that it pushes you toward specialisation on each character more than A1 did -- between limited skill point availability and trait slots, it's hard to be really good at more than one thing. EftP does indeed have some new quests and a new town (a separatist community near the Abyss that Avernum is trying to bring under its control). The spell list has also been changed: the most noticeable difference in that regard is that most buffs have been toned down a bit, although they're still good enough that you should be using them in any serious fight.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
UI-wise, older Avernum can be a bit long in the tooth because it has items listed in a single, scrolling column, whereas Escape has a separate inventory screen/paperdoll. Avernum also requires you to stock up on ammo for your bows and I believe food for resting (not sure if I'm remembering this part correctly). Escape from the Pit has the new adrenaline mechanic that allows your melee characters to do special attacks. Quests and dungeons have been greatly expanded as well. I'd personally go with A:EftP at this point.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2014 01:39
|
|
|
I recall literally nothing that Avernum does better then EftP. If you REALLY want to go old school, go back to Exile 1, where you can't even see the item stats without using the character editor.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2014 01:41
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I recall literally nothing that Avernum does better then EftP. This is a small thing, and mostly a tone issue, though.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2014 05:36
|
|
|
I'm playing through A5(skipping 4) right now, and the enemies are starting to annoy me far more than Avernum 2 or 3 ever did. Why does every enemy get an acid attack? Rats, bats, bandits, ghosts, and I think every single special encounter all somehow procure the ability to force my priest to waste their turn curing instead of doing something useful. Also, enemy casters hasting every enemy around them in one turn is bullshit, especially if the enemies already do as much damage as I do with twice the health. I also do not understand the rationale for removing the three levels of a spell, with the third level being the best.
Jaramin fucked around with this message at 02:05 on May 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 02:03
|
|
|
Zereth posted:I recall EftP showering me in magic items right from the get go compared to Avernum's "You're in a loving scraped together society in a cave, forget magic for now you want to get metal weapons". I liked the way the original trilogy did magic items way better than the later games. In the original trilogy finding magic items was a big drat deal, and getting demonslayer was actually a huge powerspike. In the later games you're constantly finding ho hum upgrades like +8% lightning resistance -> +12% lightning resistance that are barely noticeable. It feels kind of like a non randomly generated vanilla Diablo 3. Demonslayer is basically a plot token. The original also did a better job of letting you explore the world on your own without railroading you. If I were to replay Avernum 1 I'd definitely go with the original, I just like it a lot better.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 02:14
|
|
|
Anything better than your stoneage or early bronze weapons felt like a big deal in Exile, highlighting how rare and important natural resources were in the caves. Getting a steel weapon was like a Thus Spake Zarathustra moment.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 02:27
|
|
|
The Moon Monster posted:
So glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. Go for it, you won't be disappointed!  (I'm still extremely excited for a remake of A2, though.)
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 06:12
|
|
|
Chinook posted:So glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. Go for it, you won't be disappointed! I'm really curious as to how the Avernum 2 re-remake is going to handle Chapter 2, since recent games have been increasingly de-emphasising long-term resource management and that's kinda what Chapter 2 was all about.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 06:17
|
|
|
Thuryl posted:I'm really curious as to how the Avernum 2 re-remake is going to handle Chapter 2, since recent games have been increasingly de-emphasising long-term resource management and that's kinda what Chapter 2 was all about. Yeah. Honestly, at least half the locations in Chapter 2 are totally irrelevant to the story as a whole, but are still worth clearing out simply because they have some kind of resource (food, potions, whatever) that you're probably short on. Replacing "hey here's some food so your party doesn't starve to death" with "here's Yet Another Magical Sword which will be outdated by the next chapter" doesn't have quite the same pizzazz or impact.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 12:28
|
|
|
I finally feel like I've gotten traction on GF2. I've explored about half the map now and the only reason I'm not already finished is that taking care of a newborn leaves me with very little time for gaming. Game is fantastic. Unfortunately, we can now also add "multiple monitors" to the list of things early Geneforge games don't cope with well. 
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2014 15:54
|
|
|
If anyone's been thinking of picking up Avernum: Escape from the Pit, it's $1.99 on Steam from now until June 10th.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2014 15:01
|
|
|
Is there any particular reason people rate geneforge 5 so low? I'm only up to the third game at the moment and can understand why the linearness would upset people who liked 1-2 and I'm curious if 4 and 5 are similar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
Clever Spambot posted:Is there any particular reason people rate geneforge 5 so low? I'm only up to the third game at the moment and can understand why the linearness would upset people who liked 1-2 and I'm curious if 4 and 5 are similar. I honestly wasn't aware that people rated 5 low. Personally, I've always heard most of the vitrol pointed at 3 - which was far too obviously linear (at least 4 and 5 make an effort to hide the rails), too restricting on factions (no staying neutral for a long time) and was mechanically very similar to 2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 00:05
|
|
|
Thuryl posted:If anyone's been thinking of picking up Avernum: Escape from the Pit, it's $1.99 on Steam from now until June 10th. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 11:14
|
|
|
Who rates 5 low? I think 5 and 2 are up there for the best ones, frankly. 1 was great at it's time, and still sorta has that stranger in a strange land feeling, but my god has it aged poorly. 3 is stupidly linear. 4 is good, but just a biiiiiiiiiit still too linear to hit 2/5 levels.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 15:03
|
|
|
I mostly just saw this in the OPKICK BAMA KICK posted:Oh: 2 > 1 > 4 > 5 >> 3. I'm not taking it super seriously but was just curious what the justification for 5 being the second worst was.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 15:29
|
|
|
Clever Spambot posted:I'm not taking it super seriously but was just curious what the justification for 5 being the second worst was. Even if I did rank 5 the second-worst I'd absolutely place it much closer in quality to 4 and the rest than to 3.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 15:53
|
|
|
KICK BAMA KICK posted:I haven't played 4 and 5 in a long time so I couldn't tell you my specific reasoning off the top of my head. My enjoyment of these games is pretty much all on the strength of the faction conflicts, so my opinion of that in each game would be what those rankings would have been based on. I definitely enjoyed 1 and 2 the most, though, I think just off the novelty of the setting in 1 and the even wider range of possibilities with the four factions in 2. As I recall, 4 and 5 didn't quite live up to that. The gameplay improvements are welcome but just not a huge deal to me. My one big issue with Geneforge 5 is that most of the endings are really similar. A lot of previous GF games reused endgame areas in different paths, but generally with different objectives that you achieve in different ways; in 4 of the 5 main ending paths in GF5 you're basically doing the exact same thing with similar end results. It doesn't ruin the game or anything, but it does make the ending feel a bit rushed, especially on a second playthrough. So yeah, if that was a big deal for you I can see why you'd have been disappointed in GF5.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2014 16:04
|
|
|
I think I've slightly broken Geneforge 2. Finally made it to Taker territories, visited the Zhass-Uus Outskirts and got the usual "we don't like you but we've given you free passage to the capital so that our leader can talk to you" speech. Stroll into Zhass-Uus proper and the drayks there immediately open fire on me. Retreat back to the Outskirts and everyone there is now hostile, too. It's possible that I've done something to anger them (like killing everyone in Benarii-Uus Entry and taking their stuff) but in that case I'd expect the Outskirts to be hostile to me, too. Speaking of the Takers, I've noticed that the drayks are planning to supplant the Shapers, not merely destroy them. They're teaching the serviles magic, but not shaping, and with the Gazers they're repeating the same crimes that the Taker serviles hate the Shaper Council for. It's pretty clear that if the Taker revolution "succeeds", they'll just be trading one tyranny for another. I really hope I get to do something about this; it seems like with a few carefully orchestrated revelations of what their leaders are really doing to the Takers, and maybe a few precisely targeted assassinations, I could win a lot of new recruits for the Awakened.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2014 13:49
|
|
|
ToxicFrog posted:It's possible that I've done something to anger them (like killing everyone in Benarii-Uus Entry and taking their stuff) but in that case I'd expect the Outskirts to be hostile to me, too. That said, I wouldn't worry about it unless you intended to join the Takers - as every other sect has no doubt told you, the Takers are both completely crazy and dangerously talented. You're not dealing with the most sane people here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2014 02:15
|
|
|
Avadon 2. I'm trying to go through the Tower of Trials (level 7 Tinkermage, specialized in turrets) and it's kicking my rear end. The very first combat, with freaking wretches, just has them swarm and destroy me. Is there a trick to it I'm missing, or did I just build my character the wrong way?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 09:51
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:Avadon 2. The trick is to come back at a higher level. That's a pretty tough optional area, and the upper floors get even tougher. You're not expected to beat it when you first access it. You can get through the fight early-ish with a combination of AoE damage/status turrets and scrolls, but there's no rush.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 11:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
Ah. Fair enough. Any particular level - the next time I come back to Avadon, or the time after that? Also, is there a trick to stealing some items within view of a stationary NPC, or are they just there to taunt me? There's a locked room in the furniture makers house - most of the time opportunities to lockpick pay for themselves, but her husband just refuses to move around enough to let me steal their stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 14:46
|
|