|
news.com.au posted:AUSTRALIAN cancer patients now have the highest survival rate in the world and new vaccines, early detection tests and genetic treatments are set to drive further dramatic improvements. This was incredibly uplifting to read. Here in Australia we've got a serious love/hate relationship with the sun, skin cancer is a huge risk here, on top of all the usual rates of various other cancers. Everyone I know knows someone that's been affected by cancer, but strangely enough I don't know all that many people that have ever attended a funeral! It's nice to see a good, easy and practical example of how a public free healthcare system is so completely and utterly superior to private insurance. I'm so sick of hearing trash talk about my national system, sick of hearing how there must be huge queues and death panels choosing who gets to live and who doesn't, and mostly tired of hearing how incredibly good US healthcare is. I'm not quite in my 30's, but I fully expect to see the vast majority of cancers cured and vaccinated against within my lifetime and I found it utterly incredibly how awesome humanity is in being able to achieve such a goal.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 10:31 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2013 13:00 |
|
|
quote:An international comparison shows Australia leads the world with just 33 deaths for every 100 new cases of cancer.This compares with the world average of 58, Western Europe's 38 and North America's 62. These are some pretty surprising stats. Cancer care in the US is apparently worse than the worldwide average 
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 10:43 |
|
|
Ashenai posted:These are some pretty surprising stats. Cancer care in the US is apparently worse than the worldwide average I imagine that might be because cancer is a long and resource draining illness, unaffordable by most.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 10:46 |
|
|
I don't know, but maybe this has something to do with the prevalence of melanoma in Australia. Melanoma is relatively easy to detect and, if caught early enough, has a relatively good prognosis - this might throw the statistics off.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 10:48 |
|
|
Muslim Wookie posted:I'm so sick of hearing trash talk about my national system, sick of hearing how there must be huge queues and death panels choosing who gets to live and who doesn't, and mostly tired of hearing how incredibly good US healthcare is. I wonder how much it has to do with the types of cancers as well. I know we have huge rates of melanoma but BCC and SCC skin cancers aren't any where near as deadly.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 10:48 |
|
|
Muslim Wookie posted:I'm not quite in my 30's, but I fully expect to see the vast majority of cancers cured and vaccinated against within my lifetime and I found it utterly incredibly how awesome humanity is in being able to achieve such a goal. By then we'll all start dying from trivial poo poo because none of our antibiotics will work anymore.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:09 |
|
|
Muslim Wookie posted:I'm so sick of hearing trash talk about my national system, sick of hearing how there must be huge queues and death panels choosing who gets to live and who doesn't, and mostly tired of hearing how incredibly good US healthcare is.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:10 |
|
|
The general sentiment I've heard is that America's doctors and hospitals are perhaps the best in the world, but that nobody can afford to use them so it's a moot point.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:16 |
|
|
TheIllestVillain posted:Does that actually happen here? Nobody has anything but bad things to say about the state of US healthcare. People that can afford the best we have are pretty loving happy with it, as are people that are willing to cripple themselves with debt.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:22 |
|
|
TheIllestVillain posted:Does that actually happen here? Nobody has anything but bad things to say about the state of US healthcare. I moved to Australia 10+ years ago from the US. I have to say the health care system down here is nothing short of awesome. My daughters birth cost me nothing, when she needed emergency surgery years later it cost me nothing. Diabetic friends I know pay nothing for the supplies they need. Prescriptions are price controlled and the most I have known anyone to pay for a script was around $15 dollars. My mostly republican family back in the US hates me when health care is brought up.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:26 |
|
|
Otik posted:I don't know, but maybe this has something to do with the prevalence of melanoma in Australia. Melanoma is relatively easy to detect and, if caught early enough, has a relatively good prognosis - this might throw the statistics off. This could be a very valid suggestion - though I would wonder about that, surely legitimate statisticians deal with that sort of situation all the time and have a method for normalizing that data? To others, I hear it very often, though I do deal with a lot of Yanks that fly into the country for a few days and by the nature of what they do talk politics.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:41 |
|
|
Muslim Wookie posted:This could be a very valid suggestion - though I would wonder about that, surely legitimate statisticians deal with that sort of situation all the time and have a method for normalizing that data? How exactly would you do that? Is there anything quite as bad in the US as the sun is here? 1 in 6 Australians develop skin cancer in their lifetimes.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:51 |
|
|
Otik posted:I don't know, but maybe this has something to do with the prevalence of melanoma in Australia. Melanoma is relatively easy to detect and, if caught early enough, has a relatively good prognosis - this might throw the statistics off. Caucasian majority + Australian sun + beach culture means everyone either has/had skin cancer or knows someone who does. There is plenty of government encouragement for screening. Treating most skin cancers is uncomplicated and can be 'burnt' off by the average GP with some liquid nitrogen or an electric needle. I'm sure this alone heavily skews our numbers, though it does help that getting cancer in Australia doesn't automatically bankrupt your family. Raged posted:My mostly republican family back in the US hates me when health care is brought up. I was surprised at how large the Americna expat community was where I first worked (South-East Queensland) and every one I met had nothing but poo poo things to say about healthcare back home. On the other hand, when I visit American relatives, they don't think it will work in the states because poor people will start demanding free poo poo for the sake of it. Strand fucked around with this message at Mar 9, 2013 around 12:01 |
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:57 |
|
|
Don't worry everyone, soon we'll be on par with the US. Tony Abbotts gonna get elected in september and sell everything he can, and what he can't sell he'll go to razor happy with. Soon we'll be on your level. Soon...
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 11:58 |
|
|
Ignem Aeternem posted:Don't worry everyone, soon we'll be on par with the US. Tony Abbotts gonna get elected in september and sell everything he can, and what he can't sell he'll go to razor happy with. Soon we'll be on your level. Soon... This isnt Aus Pol..... Having said that I would like to know the stastics of people who are diagnosed and subsequently treated in Australia based on population versus the rest of the world.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 16:17 |
|
|
So does Australia cure 66% of its cancer cases, or do 66% of its new cancer patients survive past ten years or what?
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 16:24 |
|
|
Does this study account for the tens of thousands of Australians each year who get cancer, but are killed off by the fauna before cancer can do them in?
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 17:16 |
|
|
quote:World Average 58... North America's 62. Ahaha, this is the kind of stuff that makes america look like a backwards hick state to the rest of the world. Also yeah, Australia/New Zealand healthcare services legit own. It's run via putting out big contracts for stuff and then getting the cheapest one that does what the specification says, so they get pretty good healthcare rates per dollar spent. Also I think GPs can still charge patients, which keeps out people who are wasting time and keeps antibiotic resistance down by stop people begging for antibiotic prescriptions for their colds.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 20:08 |
|
|
How easy is it to move to Australia and what's the cost of living compared to the US?
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 20:28 |
|
|
Drone_Fragger posted:Ahaha, this is the kind of stuff that makes america look like a backwards hick state to the rest of the world. We seriously can't be that bad, I chose Germany as a random nation with a non insane health care system and compared to the US, for cancer mortality rate between 30-70 year olds, they're actually slightly higher than the US in 2008 http://apps.who.int/gho/data/view.country.9200 http://apps.who.int/gho/data/view.country.20800 I mean if every nation is being compared one a one to one basis regardless of population, one has to remember the US is only one nation out of 24 in North America. I imagine the health care in say El Salvador or the Dominican Republic isn't exactly excellent.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 20:31 |
|
|
Orange_Lazarus posted:How easy is it to move to Australia and what's the cost of living compared to the US? You need a visa, obviously. I originally came over on a provisional marriage visa, ended up never getting married, then was able to stay because I had gotten a job. So unless you have an Australian or New Zealander willing to marry you, you need to either have an employer in Australia willing to sponsor you, be on the government's list of critical occupations so that the government will give you a skilled migrant visa to come look for a job, or you need to be some kind of refugee. I have no idea what New Zealand's deal is for visas, probably something similar if not identical, but if you get New Zealand residency or citizenship, that's just as good for basically any purpose of living in Australia. You can also get a student visa if you're willing to pay some $10k in tuition each year and work full-time while also going to university full-time. You have to study full-time for the visa, and you'll basically need the job to support yourself unless you are super rich I guess. Everyday stuff is a little bit more expensive. Not by much, but enough that it adds up. A half-litre of milk, for example, might be AUD $1.50 whereas I might be able to get a gallon of milk in the US for $3 or $3.50. Turkey is also really expensive, I have no idea why. Basically anything that is imported is really expensive, and there's extensive price fixing in the electronics industry that keeps prices on basically everything electronic completely outrageous. Except to pay between two and three times what you would in the US for a computer. Video games are $60 at a minimum. You know how in the last few years some publishers have decided certain games are just so goddamn important that they've added an extra $10 to the price in the US? Well in Australia those games will start at $100. Buy them used and you might find them for $85 or $90. Even Steam gets in on it; the new Tomb Raider game is $70. There's a variety of online stores that use shifty, but completely legal, means of getting games for much more reasonable prices, namely buying them up in lower-income regions like Russia and selling you the CD-keys. Restaurants are also more expensive and portions are smaller. When I first got here, I ate at a KFC with my girlfriend and was pretty much floored by the fact that a meal for one person was $10, whereas in the US at a KFC $10 will get more food per person for your whole family. The mashed potatoes were mixed into the gravy as a kind of soupy substance that came in a cup about the size of what you'd use for your condiments in an American fast food restaurant. If you want to eat at a real restaurant, well, consider a career as a well-paid rich person. I'd argue that the price differences are mostly evened out, though, by public service. There's no such thing as local police here, so you don't have to wade through your town's good ol' boy network to get help with something. There's public healthcare (See this thread) and public transport, so if you live anywhere near a city you can easily commute there without having to worry about owning a car.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 20:55 |
|
|
Orange_Lazarus posted:How easy is it to move to Australia and what's the cost of living compared to the US? Real easy! All you need to do is get a boat from Jakarta and once you're in international waters, call the Australian navy and tell them you're sinking. When they get there get rid of your passport and any other ID and they will take you to a luxurious processing center to stay for a few weeks. Before you know it you'll be given public housing and a $8000 grant to buy life's necessities such as a washing machine / dryer etc. Best of all you'll never have to work a day in your life unless you want to get a job, around 20 - 25% of illegals choose this option while the rest remain unemployed after 5 years. On the downside, you'll have to share a country with me, and I'm a bumptious, Aussie fuckwit. Another way is to get a 457 visa, but the current Labour government hates immigrants that arrive with passports and want to work so there' a chance you'll be thrown out of the country at any time. Somebody fucked around with this message at Mar 11, 2013 around 19:13 |
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 21:43 |
|
|
If the cancer won't get you, it's nature will 
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 21:47 |
|
|
Amused to Death posted:I mean if every nation is being compared one a one to one basis regardless of population, one has to remember the US is only one nation out of 24 in North America. I imagine the health care in say El Salvador or the Dominican Republic isn't exactly excellent. I thought North America was US, Canada and Mexico? With everything south of that being Central America and then South America.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 22:27 |
|
|
Wingless posted:I thought North America was US, Canada and Mexico? With everything south of that being Central America and then South America. Central America is considered part of North America.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 22:31 |
|
|
Don't forget all those free vaccinations for ovarian cancer they've been giving to high school students both female AND male.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 22:32 |
|
|
SerSpook posted:Central America is considered part of North America. ...What?
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 22:43 |
|
|
Sometimes North America means USA + Canada, sometimes it means USA + Canada + Mexico, sometimes it means everything north of Panama.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 22:46 |
|
|
quote:An international comparison shows Australia leads the world with just 33 deaths for every 100 new cases of cancer.This compares with the world average of 58, Western Europe's 38 and North America's 62. This is the dumbest statistic possible. The only thing higher than the cure rate for early melanoma is the incidence rate of melanoma in Australia. The cure rates for stage 1 are up at 95%. The only reason it's not higher is because patients would be pissed off if physicians cut off enough skin to get 100%. Lumping in two or three other cancers and saying 'oh look our total survival rates are higher' is completely loving retarded and does an enormous disservice to the insanely wide variety of cancers that exist. E: to clarify, I realize they're lumping all cancer together but it doesn't matter. Since it is per 100 new cases, and melanoma will be grossly overrepresented, it will be drastically skewed in their favor. That said, hearing about cancer survival rates going up is always a good thing. Good on ya' Australia. E2: hahaha just noticed the part about central america being included. What a classy group of researchers, segregating europe but not north america. SlimPickens fucked around with this message at Mar 9, 2013 around 23:00 |
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 22:47 |
|
|
Desperado Bones posted:
Central America is a subcontinent to North America, the way the Indian Subcontinent is to Asia. Some models consider the Americas to be a single continent, too!
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 22:48 |
|
|
Australia: Higher rate of easily treatable form of cancer leads to good treatment rate for cancer in general, allows for pretense of relevance from tiny koala based nation.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 22:57 |
|
|
There's not much scientific basis for what is considered a continent. If you go by contiguous land mass (ignoring man made canals) you can get it down to four; Americas, AfroEurasia, Antarctica and Australia. Although why do we get to ignore Greenland. It isn't that small? Then you have a slippery slope and Madagascar wants to come to the party. If you use tectonic plates you end up with like 9 continents, so gently caress it.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 23:05 |
|
|
Germstore posted:There's not much scientific basis for what is considered a continent. If you go by contiguous land mass (ignoring man made canals) you can get it down to four; Americas, AfroEurasia, Antarctica and Australia. Although why do we get to ignore Greenland. It isn't that small? Then you have a slippery slope and Madagascar wants to come to the party. If you use tectonic plates you end up with like 9 continents, so gently caress it. Greenland: cancer survivor rate of divide by zero error.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 23:08 |
|
|
Ashenai posted:These are some pretty surprising stats. Cancer care in the US is apparently worse than the worldwide average I think it's kinda sad I'm not surprised at that. Unless you're super rich I think cancer treatment pretty much boils down to candy corn and Zima.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 23:09 |
|
|
Maneck posted:Does this study account for the tens of thousands of Australians each year who get cancer, but are killed off by the fauna before cancer can do them in? The snake and spider bites, you see, necrotize cancerous cells more successfully than non-cancerous cells. It's like a cheap, rapid chemo treatment (if you survive). All of that great tissue damage will boost your immune system, give your remaining kidney a nice workout, and speed your metabolism just like a burn victim! As a bonus to those whose Australian Venom Therapy(tm) was of the neurotoxic variety, you might get dizziness, blurred vision, loss of coordination, nausea, shock, slurred speech, and numbness. It's just like being really drunk without the alcohol! Wow! It's natural and organic too! NO GMOs! No MSG! No Gluten! 100% nature-made from free-range venomous animals!
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 23:11 |
|
|
juliuspringle posted:I think it's kinda sad I'm not surprised at that. Unless you're super rich I think cancer treatment pretty much boils down to candy corn and Zima. Pretty much any kind of extensive treatment here is incredibly expensive. Or any treatment really. Our healthcare system is really hosed. Also, nice job on that Archer reference. 
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 23:13 |
|
|
juliuspringle posted:I think it's kinda sad I'm not surprised at that. Unless you're super rich I think cancer treatment pretty much boils down to candy corn and Zima. On the plus side, that is the best episode of Archer.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 23:22 |
|
|
Niton posted:Central America is a subcontinent to North America, the way the Indian Subcontinent is to Asia. Some models consider the Americas to be a single continent, too! Err.I already know that? Nevermind, there are Spanish people who claim Mexico and Central America is South America because they say so. This is a stupid derail.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 23:27 |
|
|
juliuspringle posted:I think it's kinda sad I'm not surprised at that. Unless you're super rich I think cancer treatment pretty much boils down to candy corn and Zima. You should actually be surprised, since it's wrong. I wanted to link to some actual journal articles, but you're not going to be able to read them without some kind of academic access so here you go: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/ca...ed-conclusions/. I'm not crazy about factcheck.org, but that particular article is well sourced. Like people are saying, the North America statistics probably include Mexico and Central America, which is going to bring the average down. Basically, cancer survival rates are higher in the US than they are in a lot of (western) Europe, but not necessarily as high as in some other countries. It's kind of a wash in general between first world nations, which is about what you might expect. The only reason I even thought to look this up is because I've had to listen to idiot conservatives argue that our generally pretty good cancer survival rate is an argument for private health insurance. It's notable that there's an obvious difference between survival rates among insured and uninsured Americans, and it's just that enough Americans are insured to keep the average on par with the rest of the developed world.
|
| # ? Mar 9, 2013 23:53 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2013 13:00 |
|
|
This is great, because as a redhead in Australia, the act to simply walking outside feels like I'm venturing into Chernobyl sometimes.
|
| # ? Mar 10, 2013 00:31 |
|
