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Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.
Basics to 1120: Submarine Officer


------------
Forward
------------

DISCLAIMER: ALL DISCUSSIONS WILL BE ON THE UNCLASS LEVEL. DO NOT POST CLASSIFIED MATERIAL.
This thread is meant to impart some wisdom to young midshipmen or enlisted looking at submarines as a possible Junior Officer career, and to answer some of the questions that I would have loved to know to ask before I got my 1170 (submarines, unqualified) designator. Since I don’t know you, and I don’t particularly concern myself with the “future of the submarine force”, I hope this will be an unbiased place for questions, answers, and information from pre-commission community selection through post-JO tour career development. Since my experience is limited to fast-attack submarines, some of the things I say may not be applicable to ballistic missiles (boomer) submarines; I will diligently try to point these differences, and my ignorance thereof, out as they come along.

-----------------
Introduction
-----------------

I am a junior officer, submarine and diver qualified, aboard a fast-attack submarine based in the pacific fleet. I am nearing the end of my first sea duty, and will be going shore duty here in the next couple months. During my 41 months onboard, I’ve done one Middle East deployment (5th fleet), one western Pacific deployment (7th fleet), and one eastern Pacific deployment (3rd fleet). During those deployments I stood watch as Engineering Officer of the Watch (EOOW), Contact Manager, and Officer of the Deck (OOD). I was trained at Nuclear Power Training Unit (NPTU), Charleston on MTS-365 and attended Nuclear Power School in Charleston, SC. I got my major in economics and psychology.



---------------------------------------
Basics of a Submarine Officer
---------------------------------------

The unrestricted line officers on a submarine are the tactical leadership backbone of the ship. The wardroom (i.e. 1120 officers onboard) leads the planning, preparation, and execution of the missions assigned to a submarine during deployment, and is the tactical leadership of their watchsections both on deployment and during the workup cycle leading up to deployment. Under the tutelage, and side by side with, the senior enlisted (chiefs) aboard the ship we also manage the day to day administration and training that goes into preparing a submarine for sea. This includes quality assurance for SUBSAFE systems, maintenance packages and paperwork for routine maintenance, training preparation and execution, operational and risk management planning, etc.

While out at sea, officers stand (from most junior to senior watchstations) Engineering Officer of the Watch (EOOW), Contact Manager, Junior Officer of the Deck (JOOD), and Officer of the Deck (OOD). The Executive Officer (XO, a 3rd sea tour officer) will also stand Command Duty Officer (CDO) when the Captain (CO) is asleep or otherwise indisposed. The majority of your career, until you make XO, will be consumed by trying to qualify and then succeed as Officer of the Deck, the officer in charge of managing and driving the submarine that is at your disposal.



---------------------------------------
Starting Out
---------------------------------------

Getting selected for submarines as an officer is a somewhat more convoluted process than you may imagine, especially for a force that is constantly undermanned. Your first hurdle is the Admiral Interview. Every submarine officer is interviewed by Naval Reactors (NR) in Washington, D.C., the culmination of which is an interview with NR actual, Admiral Richardson. The entire interview process takes about 3 days, and if you are coming from an NROTC unit, you will have been studying for this interview for a couple months to make it easier. You’ll fly to DC, spend the night, and start interviews at 0700 the next morning. You’ll be tested by two NR engineers on mathematics, basic physics, engineering principles, etc. If you have a non-engineering major and run into someone who knows something about your major, they will ask you about that too. Once complete (assuming you passed both your interviews) you’ll go, alone, and sit in front of the Admiral, who makes the final decision if you enter the submarine force. He will ask you about your major, your grades (be prepared to defend bad grades in any classes), your hobbies, your ambitions, etc. This is not a formality; I had two people with me who did very well on their interviews, but the Admiral felt they lacked the “moral fortitude” to become submarine officers, and thus were denied entry. In the end, if you pass, you will spend a wonderful drunken and celebratory night in D.C. before flying home. Did I mention you now have $10,000? Yeah, once you pass the interviews, they drop 10 grand in your bank account. Have fun, but save most of it for post-commission; you’ll need to buy furniture, supplies, a car, etc once you get to power school.

---------------------------------------
Power School
---------------------------------------

Alright, so you made it through the interviews, got those butterbars, and now you have orders to Goose Creek, SC to attend nuclear power school. BAH for a single 0-1 in Charleston right now is $1150, which can get you a nice apartment in pretty much wherever you want, but since the name of the game is always “save money”, you should try and find a room-mate who is going to power school with you. If there are none in your school, try calling other NROTC units; not only will you be able to carpool, but you can force eachother to enjoy the city. I recommend Mt Pleasant, West Ashley, or Charleston itself; Goose Creek and North Charleston are shitholes, and the best part of Charleston is the city itself; awesome food, fantastic women, and great entertainment. Totally worth an extra ten minutes of driving to get to work. Powerschool itself relatively straight forward, if not exactly easy. You have 6 months to learn basic nuclear engineering, circa 1970’s. You’ll study mathematics up to linear algebra, physics up to energy transfer, thermodynamics, materials engineering, nuclear theory and energy, electrical engineering, and reactor plant principles. Most of the teaching, however, revolves around the original theory of nuclear power, when Admiral Rickover made the program, so the whole “quantum mechanics” thing is conveniently ignored. The basics are still sound, however. Class normally starts at 0630, and end around 1600-1700, M-F. After that, there is normally 1-4 hours of homework, and weekly tests on every subject (you are taking 2-4 at a time). You’ll take ~40 hours of classes per week, and anywhere from 10-40 extra hours per week of studying and memorizing. Welcome to submarines; the 80 hour workweek. If you don’t do well, they’ll assign you mandatory study hours of 10-35, depending on how many you need to succeed. At end of the 6 months, you’ll take an 8 hour comprehensive exam.

The key to success at powerschool is to realize that this is not like normal school. The Navy doesn’t really care if you deeply and truly understand nuclear power. What they care about is that you can identify problems and then safely and expertly execute procedures as written. This means you need to know how to memorize; in fact, most of powerschool is just one big memorization fest. The phrase you’ll hear a lot is “drinking out of a firehose”, which is pretty accurate. I normally go home and workout after classes, make some dinner to take to work, and then come back and eat/study until 2000 or 2030. Just expect that you’ll be working long days, so make the weekends count.



---------------------------------------
Prototype
---------------------------------------

Prototype, which you will most likely attend right after power school, will allow you to work on an operational naval reactor for 6 months, giving you a chance to learn the basics and teaching you how to qualify a watch. Your goal will be to qualify Engineering Officer of the Watch. There are two different prototypes, Charleston and Balston Spa (in Saratoga, NY). I’ve been told Saratoga is quite nice. Where ever you go, you’ll spend the first 8 weeks learning plant basics, and then you’ll be assigned a crew and move onto shiftwork so you can start qualifying. You schedule gets interesting, now. There are 3 shifts; Morning, from 0800-1600, Swing, from 1600-0000, and Mids, from 0000-0800. You will be on Morning shift for 7 days, followed by 3 days off, Swings for 7 days, followed by 3 days off, and Mids for 7 days, followed by 4 days off. The schedule is gruesome and unpleasant, since you have mandatory study hours afterwatch for 2-6 hours, depending on how far ahead you are. Once you qualify EOOW, you are pretty much done until the comprehensive exam at the end of prototype, which is another 8 hour test.

The key to prototype is to understand that it sucks, and you need to get through it ASAP. Game the system as much as you can. Kiss rear end, make friends, do whatever you have to do to get ahead of quals and stay there. In order to be the best, you need to do as little as possible while still qualifying; the goal is to qualify, not to know everything. So don’t over-study, just do the minimum amount to get the signature and move the gently caress on. No one will care that you blew that Analytical Procedures checkout out of the water, but they will care that you are loving DINQ (delinquent in quals) because you spent 6 hours studying for it. And above all, remember this: the soda machine always accidentally dispenses 2 sodas before a checkout. Live your prototype life by that creed, and life becomes much more bearable.


---------------------------------------------
SOBC: Submarine Officer Basic Course
---------------------------------------------

Now that you’ve made it through the miles of poo poo involved in prototype, the Navy has deigned to bless you. Welcome to SOBC, what will probably be the best months of your life until your first shore duty. Here, in glorious Groton, CT, you get to learn the basics of being a submarine officer. This includes SONAR, Target Motion Analysis (TMA), Approach and Attack, tracking techniques, periscope tactics, and all the things that go along with being a tactical submariner. Oh, yeah, and the hours are loving awesome. I spend, maybe, 4 hours a day in class, with NO weekend responsibilities. It was like a god drat dream. The entire course lasts about 3 months, but they have revised it extensively since I went, so I don’t know specifics. Just enjoy it.



----------------------------------
Choosing Your Submarine
-----------------------------------

Sometime during this process, you will be told to contact the detailer and tell him what you prefer in terms of at-sea assignments. Know this; he doesn’t give a flying gently caress what you want. Unless what you want is exactly what he wants, you will get exactly what he decides is easiest for him. Sorry. Assigning JO’s to submarines is just a big numbers game; you have a nuclear technical score based on power school and prototype, and you will be assigned to a submarine based on the wardroom’s average technical scores and their recent performance. Don’t worry your little mind over trying to game this; it is completely out of your control. You can’t guarantee yourself a San Diego submarine by doing well, or doing badly, or really by doing anything, so just let it go.

Your only choice in the matter is whether you go Ballistic Missile or Fast attack, which in turn decides which ports you may go to. For the love of god, do not choose a platform based on which ports are available to each platform. The choice of Fast Attack or Boomer will make such a big difference in your life, the port will be almost entirely irrelevant. Here’s why:

Boomers have 2 crews; blue and gold. Every 3 months, the crews swap, and one crew takes the boat while the others go to a couple offices and does…something. I never really figured out what, aside from training, so maybe someone else will know and answer better. The crew with the ship repairs it, and goes out to sea for a patrol, generally lasting 60-90 days. From what I understand, all they do is drill while out on patrol, and since I hate drills, that seems like a pretty crappy deal. But hey, they spend half their time on shore, so gently caress em. It’s an important job, but so is cleaning sewers; doesn’t mean I want to do it. Most people who go boomers either have family and kids (which makes boomers a fantastic choice) or really want to go to Seattle.

Fast Attack This is the meat of the submarine force (sorry boomer guys). Our deployment cycle lasts 1-1.5 years. We spend 4 months doing maintenance availabilities, 3 months doing at-sea testing and training, and 2 months doing pre-deployment evaluations, after which you will go on a 6 months deployment (this cycle is slightly different for Guam boats, since they are only a couple days from theater). On deployment, you will get a chance to do some really awesome, frontline super secret spy poo poo. You will have security clearances that start at TOP SECRET and move up, depending on what you are doing. When the job is done, you get to pull into some pretty awesome foreign ports (normally 2-4) and see the world. Deployment is downright awesome, aside from being away from the family. Unless all you care about is making a paycheck and spending time with your family, fast attack is the way to go. Just know this; there is no 3 month off crew. Life is much, MUCH harder on a fast attack.


NOTE: This is how a lovely day starts for a submarine.

-------------------------------------
Why be a Submarine Officer
-------------------------------------

This is an extremely demanding job, both mentally and emotionally (nope, not physically. You can be fat. They will waive that, though we will mock you for it. Fat rear end.) Like all things that are hard, it can be very rewarding. On the “feel good” side, you are generally regarded as some of the smartest people in the Navy, and for good reason. The training and qualification pipeline is grueling and unforgiving, and once complete you and everyone you meet will be astounded at your accomplishment. I have yet to run across a person who did not find my job utterly and completely fascinating, and they really, really mean it when they thank you for your service.

On the personal side, you will develop skills that you will never develop anywhere else. Your leadership skills will be the foundation of your career, and your watchteam will depend on those skills to return them home safely. This is not an idle aphorism; if you fail your watchteam, the costs are severe and very potentially fatal. The sea is a harsh mistress, and the consequences of water in the people tank are always tragic. I still have nightmares about one of my failures and how close to ruin I led my boat. The important part, however, is that the submarine force will prepare you to face those challenges, and that is an invaluable benefit. No matter how timid or unworthy you think you are now, you will be different person when you are done, prepared and ready for the burdens you will carry. And no matter what you do later in life, no one can ever, ever take that away from you



------------------------------------------
Now for the bad: what’s the catch?
------------------------------------------

This job will suck. A lot. Not like “gees, my girl won’t touch my happy place tonight” kind of suck, but the “I’ve been awake for 3 days, I haven’t seen the sun since the month before last, and I’m pretty sure we’re running out of food tomorrow” kind of suck. It’s the “It’s 11pm, I got to work at 3am yesterday, and my port and starboard duty means I have to be at work in 6 hours on a Sunday so gently caress it I’m sleeping in my car for the 4th day in a row” kind of poo poo. This is just the start.

Let me try to put this in perspective. I originally was an EOD candidate; I made it all the way through mudpups, pre-school, and a summer of suffering before I finally was 1 week away from being able to report to Panama City to start my training, when I was “medically disqualified” and shipped off to Washington to interview for submarines (read: I was non-vol’ed). Despite my deepest desire, longing, and love for EOD, I well and truly believe that submarines is just as hard, demanding and sacrifice requiring a job. Don’t believe me? I don’t blame you; I wouldn’t have either. But here, let’s run a test. If you join submarines, ask you SEAL buddies “Hey, want to switch jobs? I’ll take yours in a heartbeat.” God knows I asked that same question to all my old EOD friends when my orders came in. The inevitable answer of “gently caress no” awaits you. That is all you need to know in order to assuage yourself that your sacrifice is indeed profound.


-----------------------------------------------
So what sucks besides the hard job?
-----------------------------------------------

We are the Silent Service. While the main logic behind this saying is obvious, I have found that there are many implications to this saying that are equally applicable. When on mission or on patrol during deployment, the submarine is “silent”; there are no communications off the ship. Period. No letters home, no talking to mom and dad, no calls to the wife, no postcards for the kids. You will go for months at a time with no one except the 30 or so “in the know” people on the ship knowing where you are, period. When at home, we are equally silent. No one will ever know what you really do; no one will know the missions you did, the vital role you played in national security, or the hardships you endured to get the job done. You will bear those burdens silently, with only the shipmates around you understanding what it cost. This service can, and may very well, destroy your marriage. Submariners have the highest divorce rate in the military, and the military has the highest divorce rate in the country. Where the national average for civilians is ~50% for the last 5 years, submarine divorce rates are around ~80%, and many of those occur after the couple has left the military or is no longer on submarines.



-----------------------------------------------
Conclusion
-----------------------------------------------

Submarines is hard way to learn a living, but the rewards can be incredible, no matter what career path you choose to take. This can be a fantastic life though, despite the suffering that goes along with it. Like any career, taking the bad along with the good is the key to success as a stalker of the deep.

-----------------------------------------------
Questions?
-----------------------------------------------

Ask away. I have a week until I go back out to sea (I’ll be gone for about 2 weeks after that), but then I’ll be in port for a couple months, so I’d love to answer any questions.

Sacrilage fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Aug 10, 2013

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Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
Any frequency band the reactors of nuclear submarines of the United States during the execution of the automatic bangchulneun What is it? How many submarines stationed near the North Korea? Where occupy any kind of attack submarines to defend carrier battle groups in the United States, sea station?


The easiest way how to find and destroy the attack submarine of the United States?
Submarine officer in the United States to discuss the concept of the international communist revolution or the Juche Idea?


Thank very much!

Edit: VV okay sorry :( please don't probate me

Baloogan fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Mar 10, 2013

Vasudus
May 30, 2003

Baloogan posted:

Any frequency band the reactors of nuclear submarines of the United States during the execution of the automatic bangchulneun What is it? How many submarines stationed near the North Korea? Where occupy any kind of attack submarines to defend carrier battle groups in the United States, sea station?


The easiest way how to find and destroy the attack submarine of the United States?
Submarine officer in the United States to discuss the concept of the international communist revolution or the Juche Idea?


Thank very much!

Let's not do this in a thread that's actually full of useful information.

Grrr-Krishnakk
Jul 17, 2005

PUPPIES!
I know nothing about life on a sub so this is probably some basic/inane poo poo. Anyhoo:

* What is the food like? Is there any cooking on board, or is there no way to get rid of the smoke/steam?
* What's the deepest have you ever been on deployment?
* Are there any crazy medical things that happen at those kinds of depths? Have you personally ever had any pressure-related ailments?
* Any stories about crewmen going stir-crazy? What's the onboard treatment for such?
* Do you see any whale pods or similar large wildlife? Is there a protocol for steering around whales, that sort of thing?

Edit: Oh and last one, how much privacy do you get? How do you get some solitude?

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid

Grrr-Krishnakk posted:

* What's the deepest have you ever been on deployment?

I would be shocked if this one's not classified.

genderstomper58
Jan 10, 2005

by XyloJW

Mortabis posted:

I would be shocked if this one's not classified.

Indeed it is~

Rowzdower
Feb 7, 2009
Thanks so much for posting this thread, I've been looking into the program and there's a few things I'm curious about.

-As an officer, how are your relationships between you and the enlisted men aboard the vessel?

-On average how many hours do you have to yourself and how many hours do you spend working per 18 hour day?

-How common is it for officers to receive diver training? How extensive is it?

-How inhibiting is the lack of space? What's personal storage like? Are you able to find a spot to adequately exercise in your off time?

Lanky Coconut Tree
Apr 7, 2011

An angry tree.

The angriest tree
How much of the time you were OOD was spent driving the sub in giant dong shapes?

Kaliber
Jun 17, 2005

What do you think of females in submarines? Can they endure the physical hardship of a submarine?

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Grrr-Krishnakk posted:

I know nothing about life on a sub so this is probably some basic/inane poo poo. Anyhoo:

* What is the food like? Is there any cooking on board, or is there no way to get rid of the smoke/steam?
* What's the deepest have you ever been on deployment?
* Are there any crazy medical things that happen at those kinds of depths? Have you personally ever had any pressure-related ailments?
* Any stories about crewmen going stir-crazy? What's the onboard treatment for such?
* Do you see any whale pods or similar large wildlife? Is there a protocol for steering around whales, that sort of thing?

Edit: Oh and last one, how much privacy do you get? How do you get some solitude?

No worries mate; I wrote this thread to answer questions like this.

1. Food is good. Unlike the surface fleet, we make all our food from scratch since it saves space, and as such it is normally quite palatable, if not exactly restaurant quality. That is, until the underway exceeds our food limitations (depends on how extreme we get), in which case ~1000 calorie days get real common, and the food sucks.
2. Classified, sorry :) Read wikipedia.
3. Pressure is atmosphere normal, + a little since the sub is basically a large air storage for high pressure air banks. Keep in mind, it is a rigid steel tube.
4. Yep, and Valium until we pull back in and remove them. They generally start talking to themselves, and since the crew is so small, we notice it quick.
5. Yeah, lots and lots and LOTS of wildlife. They generally keep clear of us, since the ones who didn't were subject to darwanism 50 years ago. Its a mutually happy relationship. I think whales see us as the retarded mute step-cousin no one talks about.

EDIT; No privacy, no solitude. I have spent more time sleeping closer to my fellow JO than I have spent sleeping next to my wife of 5 years. Yeah....seriously. Masturbation and poo poo like that is kind of just....accepted. Don't talk about it.

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Rowzdower posted:

Thanks so much for posting this thread, I've been looking into the program and there's a few things I'm curious about.

-As an officer, how are your relationships between you and the enlisted men aboard the vessel?

-On average how many hours do you have to yourself and how many hours do you spend working per 18 hour day?

-How common is it for officers to receive diver training? How extensive is it?

-How inhibiting is the lack of space? What's personal storage like? Are you able to find a spot to adequately exercise in your off time?

1. Our relationship is interesting. From what I understand, no one in the military has our kind of day to day rapport. You see, the enlisted train and mentor us to be the officers we are; they teach us the basics and the complex in systems, DC, life support, etc. Yet they still expect us to lead, from day one. It teaches you to be a strict but benevolent leader right from the start. You'll still curb-stomp the shitbags, but it becomes a different story when the man who trained you has an ARI because of the divorce you've known about and talked about for 2 years. I kicked a man out of the Navy for being implicit in blazing logs, and I cried like a baby during the Mast because I had babysat his kids. It will make you, in short, the kind of leader who rules the world. Compassion and discipline is one.

2. My workweek pushes 100 hours, when we are inport. This includes duty hours, so realistically I still push 80 hours+ of actual working hours. At sea, I am almost always on 3 section OOD (or before, 3 section EOOW) so with my off-watch responsibilities as a JO, I stand 7 hours watch (pre-watch included), 1 hour meals, 1 hour post-watch responsibilities, 5 hours work, 1 hour touring, 30 minutes hygiene, 3.5 hours sleeping. It gets rough after 4 months; that is the grit submariners are made of.

3. Normally 1 officer in a 14 man wardroom, and only on fast attacks, has diver training. It takes 5 weeks, and it is a whole post in and of itself. It sucks, long and short.

4. The lack of personal space is absolute. I have, maybe, 1 square foot of "mine alone" space, and because I am a senior officer, I am lucky. I work out is Auxiliary Seawater Bay, between machinery, with dumbells, and that is all the space I get. I am in great shape, but the effort I put into it would shame an MMA athlete.

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Lanky Coconut Tree posted:

How much of the time you were OOD was spent driving the sub in giant dong shapes?

I am not on boomers, so very little. I have places to go, unfortunately. I hear the boomer fa...people are quite good at shapes though.

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Kaliber posted:

What do you think of females in submarines? Can they endure the physical hardship of a submarine?

Absolutely a priority, and since I don't think women are inferior in anyway, not an issue imho. We simply don't have enough people. My main concern is that some oval office brings a sexual harassment suit against a M-div'er who compliments her rear end. We don't have enough people in subs, and too long a heritage, to be able to curb that kind of behavior, so they just better roll with it if they want dolphins. Not a day goes by that I don't get solicited for some sort of sexual deviancy from one of my men, so I hope they don't take it personally.

Grrr-Krishnakk
Jul 17, 2005

PUPPIES!

Sacrilage posted:

2. Classified, sorry :) Read wikipedia.


It was the only thing that I suspected would be. Thanks for the answers dude!

And more questions!

* What do you do in the limited time you have off? What does one do for fun on a fast attack sub?
* Do you ever find it difficult acclimating to the sub environment after time on land or vice-versa?
* (Personal, feel free to ignore) How does your wife deal with your absences?
* I'm a nurse, so forgive these medical questions, but how comprehensive are your med services? Say someone picks up an STI in port fairly early in the deployment; would they be able to be diagnosed and treated using onboard services?

Grrr-Krishnakk fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Mar 10, 2013

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

Sacrilage posted:

Absolutely a priority, and since I don't think women are inferior in anyway, not an issue imho. We simply don't have enough people. My main concern is that some oval office brings a sexual harassment suit against a M-div'er who compliments her rear end. We don't have enough people in subs, and too long a heritage, to be able to curb that kind of behavior, so they just better roll with it if they want dolphins. Not a day goes by that I don't get solicited for some sort of sexual deviancy from one of my men, so I hope they don't take it personally.

Would male only and female only boats be even theoretically possible, or desirable? Related: how often is dudes loving each other an issue? Literally, I mean.

vulturesrow
Sep 25, 2011

Always gotta pay it forward.
I didn't even think you could be non-voled into subs. They must be desperate.

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus

Kaliber posted:

What do you think of females in submarines? Can they endure the physical hardship of a submarine?

The only real physical hardship of being on a boat is the stores & TDU (weights used for trash disposal) loads.

Grrr-Krishnakk posted:

I know nothing about life on a sub so this is probably some basic/inane poo poo. Anyhoo:

* What is the food like? Is there any cooking on board, or is there no way to get rid of the smoke/steam?
* What's the deepest have you ever been on deployment?
* Are there any crazy medical things that happen at those kinds of depths? Have you personally ever had any pressure-related ailments?
* Any stories about crewmen going stir-crazy? What's the onboard treatment for such?
* Do you see any whale pods or similar large wildlife? Is there a protocol for steering around whales, that sort of thing?

Edit: Oh and last one, how much privacy do you get? How do you get some solitude?

Food is okay but I always brought along a few cans of soup for when the menu looked like poo poo. Of course there are ways to get rid of smoke & steam how the hell do you think we can stay underwater for months at a time.

I've been past 'test' depth, on accident.

Nothing happens at those depths the boat is kept to the same psi as surfaced (for the most part).

I only saw one guy start to go a bit crazy, he was told to suck it the gently caress up. Normal treatment is to tell them to suck it the gently caress up or knock them in the head till they do. The only other thing the boat could do is go back into port and gently caress up whatever mission you might be on.

You can't 'see' anything outside of the boat unless you are surfaced or at periscope depth. Everything is sonar.

There is no privacy. None. Even when you are in your rack with the curtain closed someone will reach in to wake your rear end up or accidently open it.

*note this was my experience on a fast attack as a surf not a noble.

Null Integer
Mar 1, 2006

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sacrilage posted:

BANJO(Bitch rear end Nub JO) Stuff.

Hello from Fire Control, yes, sometimes we make your life difficult on purpose other times it's just nice to shoot the poo poo with you on the midwatch.

Null Integer
Mar 1, 2006

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Grrr-Krishnakk posted:

* What do you do in the limited time you have off? What does one do for fun on a fast attack sub?
* Do you ever find it difficult acclimating to the sub environment after time on land or vice-versa?
* (Personal, feel free to ignore) How does your wife deal with your absences?
* I'm a nurse, so forgive these medical questions, but how comprehensive are your med services? Say someone picks up an STI in port fairly early in the deployment; would they be able to be diagnosed and treated using onboard services?

-Spent time at home(In port)/Watch movies, deal with collaterals, sleep(Underway)
-She says it's all about mentally preparing one self ahead of time, but then kinda falls into a routine of work and life without me
-Some docs are amazing, others are sketchy. If something serious happens in a very bad place and we cant get you off fast, he knows how to and will do everything he can to save you. If we can get you off the boat fast, it's the preferred route. Motrin fixes all. STD wise, fix it in the next port, ship you off if it's bad enough(or could be xmitted skin to skin easily)

Kaliber
Jun 17, 2005

Sacrilage posted:

Absolutely a priority, and since I don't think women are inferior in anyway, not an issue imho. We simply don't have enough people. My main concern is that some oval office brings a sexual harassment suit against a M-div'er who compliments her rear end. We don't have enough people in subs, and too long a heritage, to be able to curb that kind of behavior, so they just better roll with it if they want dolphins. Not a day goes by that I don't get solicited for some sort of sexual deviancy from one of my men, so I hope they don't take it personally.


So you think females should just accept sexual harassment because your men are immature?

vulturesrow
Sep 25, 2011

Always gotta pay it forward.

Kaliber posted:

So you think females should just accept sexual harassment because your men are immature?

:frogout:

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.
- If you want to be career navy (hah) and have any reason to think you can't get a TS clearance, you may want to avoid going subs. The secret clearance check is kind of a joke, the TS one is not. I had a friend of mine whose wife was a Lebanese? national get told he was either to divorce his wife or leave the Navy (he left.) I think it restricted even his access to things on his JO tour, it certainly meant he couldn't do a DH tour.

- Regarding the silent service, technically you're never allowed to tell -anyone- whether you'll be shipping out or pulling in until within 24 hours of departure / arrival. If you follow this to the T, it is a royal pain in the rear end. You need to have ways of taking care of your rent, car, other bills etc that are reliable yet don't depend on anyone knowing when you're coming or going. For married guys, this data is sort of an open secret to the wives' club, but that doesn't mean you can tell them. For single guys, get used to figuring out good excuses to tell that girl you just slept with why you can't say when you'll call, but it might be six or seven weeks out.

- Similarly, when you're at sea, your life basically stops. Ok, you might work on quals but for the most part it's rote routine day in and out. It can be disorienting to deal with the fact that time does not stop for the people you leave on shore; your relationships may have changed dramatically without any of your involvement. This is a problem for any military deployment but the op tempo and isolation of subs I think really makes it an extreme case.

- Regarding women on subs, I'm kind of curious how it'll work out, mainly because you're basically sniffing each other's asses for weeks on end. It's bad enough on a boat with all dudes, you already get guys underway that gently caress anything with an inviting orifice (not even talking other sailors, I mean vacuum cleaners, funnels etc) and the prettier dudes can get pawed at rather badly. Just banging on a table and demanding higher professionalism isn't going to magically make that go away, and having women in the surface navy (or female middies on summer sub cruises) haven't exactly always had the most encouraging outcomes. This isn't magically the fault of the women and it certainly isn't a reason to not put them on subs, but it'll be interesting to see nonetheless.

Cerekk
Sep 24, 2004

Oh my god, JC!
I refuse to believe that a submarine officer had enough free time to write that effort post.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid
1. How much gay sex actually goes on down there?
2. Is there incentive pay for submarines? If manning is a problem then isn't a simple solution just to jack up the pay some more? If folks got paid another, like, $800 a month to be on subs then I bet people would be lining up.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004

ded posted:

The only real physical hardship of being on a boat is the stores & TDU (weights used for trash disposal) loads.
Said no Machinist's Mate or Torpedoman (are they MMs now?) ever.

Cerekk
Sep 24, 2004

Oh my god, JC!

Mortabis posted:

1. How much gay sex actually goes on down there?
2. Is there incentive pay for submarines? If manning is a problem then isn't a simple solution just to jack up the pay some more? If folks got paid another, like, $800 a month to be on subs then I bet people would be lining up.

1. There's no privacy.
2. Yes, but it's still not enough because the job is that bad. The long and short of it is that nuclear officers who commit for a second tour get a $30,000/yr bonus on top of base pay, sub pay, and sea pay, and attrition is still around 80% after initial obligated service. Myself personally, that bonus would have to be in the mid six-figures for me to even start considering staying in for a second sea tour. (obviously that will not be happening)

Cerekk fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Mar 10, 2013

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.

Mortabis posted:

1. How much gay sex actually goes on down there?
2. Is there incentive pay for submarines? If manning is a problem then isn't a simple solution just to jack up the pay some more? If folks got paid another, like, $800 a month to be on subs then I bet people would be lining up.

1. It's not gay underway
2. Assuming they're not prior enlisted, JOs get 2-300 bucks a month extra for sub duty. The nuke bonus is considerably more, but does not require you to be on subs. All of this money is normally taxable.

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Cerekk posted:

Yes but it's still not enough because the job is that bad. The long and short of it is that nuclear officers who commit for a second tour get a $30,000/yr bonus on top of base pay, sub pay, and sea pay, and attrition is still around 80% after initial obligated service. Myself personally, that bonus would have to be in the mid six-figures for me to even start considering staying in for a second sea tour. (obviously that will not be happening)

Quoted for truth. In my limited experience, I've never run across a Department Head (DH, second tour JO) that said they did it for the money. It makes the choice more palatable, but not a reason. Most of the guys who survive their JO tours, even the mouth breathing retards, could find a well paying civvie job.

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Cerekk posted:

I refuse to believe that a submarine officer had enough free time to write that effort post.

PD standdown is a wonderful thing. I've...started hobbies too. :blush:

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid

Cerekk posted:

2. Yes, but it's still not enough because the job is that bad. The long and short of it is that nuclear officers who commit for a second tour get a $30,000/yr bonus on top of base pay, sub pay, and sea pay, and attrition is still around 80% after initial obligated service. Myself personally, that bonus would have to be in the mid six-figures for me to even start considering staying in for a second sea tour. (obviously that will not be happening)

Huh. Now I'm wondering if Tom Clancy would be all into that hot sub on sub action if he'd actually served on one.

Does the CO get any privacy? Like his own stateroom or something?

Do junior enlisted hot-rack most of the time?

e: oh and a couple more questions!

How much fresh water do you get each day, is it rationed? Are there limits on like, how you can shower or something? In a tiny-rear end steel tube with like 100 people not showering properly it would get pretty foul pretty quick, I should think.

How do you dispose of trash? Is there like an airlock or something, like the torpedo tubes? Does it make enough noise to possibly risk detection? (I understand that last part might be classified)

Mortabis fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Mar 10, 2013

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Best Friends posted:

Would male only and female only boats be even theoretically possible, or desirable? Related: how often is dudes loving each other an issue? Literally, I mean.

Possible, but not necessary. People will just have to grow the gently caress up and learn to play along in the sandbox.

As for the second part, never been an issue that I've come across. I've heard horror stories from the grapevine or from chiefs, but never in personal experience.

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Grrr-Krishnakk posted:

It was the only thing that I suspected would be. Thanks for the answers dude!

And more questions!

* What do you do in the limited time you have off? What does one do for fun on a fast attack sub?
* Do you ever find it difficult acclimating to the sub environment after time on land or vice-versa?
* (Personal, feel free to ignore) How does your wife deal with your absences?
* I'm a nurse, so forgive these medical questions, but how comprehensive are your med services? Say someone picks up an STI in port fairly early in the deployment; would they be able to be diagnosed and treated using onboard services?

No problem man.

1. Saturday nights the CO mandates all off-watch, non-midwatch (oncoming) guys watch a movie in the wardroom. Some may fall asleep during it, but we still do it. Myself, I try and read, but I started game of thrones book one 9 months ago....chapter three is going to be a duzzy.
2. Yes, but you adapt quickly. I almost don't notice it anymore.
3. She works alot. After the first long underway, she got a job; now she has a really awesome career going for her. In all honesty, it sucks sometimes since she misses a lot of return to homeports, weekend days where I don't have duty, etc, but I did this to her, so if she wants a job to fill her time, I'll support her.
4.As BANJO loving FT up there said, most docs are pretty stand up guys. All in all, they are pretty free and loose with non-narcotic medicine, and I've seen him do some pretty amazing medical feats. As soon as someone requires narcotics, though, they have to be guarded; nuclear submarine, afterall.

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Mortabis posted:

Huh. Now I'm wondering if Tom Clancy would be all into that hot sub on sub action if he'd actually served on one.

Does the CO get any privacy? Like his own stateroom or something?

Do junior enlisted hot-rack most of the time?

e: oh and a couple more questions!

How much fresh water do you get each day, is it rationed? Are there limits on like, how you can shower or something? In a tiny-rear end steel tube with like 100 people not showering properly it would get pretty foul pretty quick, I should think.

How do you dispose of trash? Is there like an airlock or something, like the torpedo tubes? Does it make enough noise to possibly risk detection? (I understand that last part might be classified)

The CO and XO have their own staterooms, about 8 feet by 8 feet for the CO, and 8 feet by 4 feet for XO. Yeah, they are living the good life. The senior JO's and Department Heads (3 on sub, 4 if you count CHOP) have 3 staterooms on a fast-attck, with 3 people in each stateroom (DH+2 JO's). Those staterooms are 6 feet by 2 feet each, and have 2 fold out desks and 3 coffin-racks. Stateroom life is awesome.

Yes; when we go underway, almost every enlisted non-chief hotracks. This past underway some of the second class Petty Officers got out of hotracking, which was rare.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/engines-equipment/submarine2.htm Found it on the internetz, so we're good.

No rationing of fresh water, unless the fresh-water maker is broken, in which case life gets so incredibly lovely so fast. As a junior submariner, you are trained to take "sub showers"; 10 seconds of water, turn it off, scrub and lather, 30 seconds to wash it off, turn it off. Takes maybe a gallon.

As to the second part.... :geno:

Cerekk
Sep 24, 2004

Oh my god, JC!

Mortabis posted:

Huh. Now I'm wondering if Tom Clancy would be all into that hot sub on sub action if he'd actually served on one.

Does the CO get any privacy? Like his own stateroom or something?

Do junior enlisted hot-rack most of the time?

e: oh and a couple more questions!

How much fresh water do you get each day, is it rationed? Are there limits on like, how you can shower or something? In a tiny-rear end steel tube with like 100 people not showering properly it would get pretty foul pretty quick, I should think.

How do you dispose of trash? Is there like an airlock or something, like the torpedo tubes? Does it make enough noise to possibly risk detection? (I understand that last part might be classified)

The CO gets his own stateroom that's about the size of the master bathroom at my house. The XO gets his own stateroom too, but he has to share it with the senior rider when there's riders onboard. (riders can be anything from an inspection team, to an assistance/certification team from your parent squadron, to intel guys or divers or special operations forces that are onboard for whatever particular mission you're doing)

Enlisted hotrack all the time on fast attacks. The more riders, the more hotrackers. On boomers they find enough spare corners to shove makeshift racks into that nobody has to hotrack. On SSGNs there's unused racks 99% of the time.

Trash gets compacted, weighed down, and disposed of at sea. What you're picturing is pretty much what it is: you load up a big tube, shut the top, open the bottom, and away goes the trash. If you're too close to land, you just store it, which is about as pleasant as it sounds.

Fresh water isn't rationed unless your water-making equipment breaks, which happens either all the time or never depending on what type of equipment you have, how old it is, and how good your mechanics are. When it does break, the propulsion plant gets water before the crew does. When it's working, you have more water than you can use, but you still limit water usage so you don't have to pump sanitaries as much. The water should be on for a total of about a minute if you're doing a proper "submarine shower," but it's an etiquette thing more than an enforced standard.

Manmower
Feb 22, 2013
What are the exercise facilities like on a sub?

How is the temperature/humidity in these subs?

Sacrilage
Feb 11, 2012

It will burn the eyes.

Manmower posted:

What are the exercise facilities like on a sub?

How is the temperature/humidity in these subs?

Dumbells. For deployment we put a treadmill on the sub, but it's REAL cramped, and tends to break quickly from the beating.

Temperature depends on the water around the ship, and since it's cold deep, it tends to be quite chilly.

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus
^^ We were not allowed to have weights due to possible noise transients.

Manmower posted:

What are the exercise facilities like on a sub?

How is the temperature/humidity in these subs?

You might get lucky and have a rowing machine and a treadmill, in the engine room. There really is not room for the gear.

Temp & humidity is fully controlled. Only the engine room gets a bit hotter. There is cold air blasting you everywhere you go on a boat.

Rowzdower
Feb 7, 2009
How hard is it to adjust to the 18 hour days? Does the crew run on an adjusted 18 hour "calendar days" system or does everyone just set their alarm 6 hours earlier each night?

Might be a stupid question, but since everyone's sleep schedule is staggered, how are alarm clocks handled? Do you just learn to sleep through the alarms that are set for other sailors or is there another system in place?

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe

ded posted:

^^ We were not allowed to have weights due to possible noise transients.


Conn, Sonar; we have intermittant bros getting swole at 257, 3 thousand yards

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Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
I guess I should have a real question. I'm sometimes doing bathymetric surveys of ports and rivers and such and because its so drat boring I generally fanatasize about subs hearing my little active sonar pinging away and doing TMA on me. I use 400-675 kHz with a 50-100 millisecond (microsecond?) pulse length, pencil beam around 100 pings per minute.

I'm sure you guys have sensitive enough equipment to hear me but do you guys track or care about me?

Baloogan fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 10, 2013

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