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Within the next year or so, my wife and I will probably trade both our cars. I'll be trading my '04 Mazda6 and have been eyeing mid-'00's luxury sedans. Specifically, the Lexus LS430 and the 2005+ Acura RL are highest on my list. I spend an hour in my car every day, and frequently drive to visit family 3 states away. These seem like comfortable, dependable cars that provide a buttload of amenities. For heavy, 300HP sedans, they actually get reasonable MPG as well. My question -- what are the hidden costs? I've ruled out these cars' German counterparts due to the high costs of maintenance and repair. My Mazda has been incredibly reliable over the last 3 years. Oil changes and a CV axle replacement are all I've run into. How are these big luxury cars to live with on a daily basis? Are the electronics finicky and unreliable? How has your ownership experience been? I also haven't ruled out '05+ Cadillac STS, but the interior quality isn't quite as good as the Japanese cars.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 13:54 |
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| # ? May 24, 2013 21:25 |
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The only thing I can really throw in is that the Lexus is RWD and the RL is front wheel drive. So between the two its an easy decision. Preoptopus fucked around with this message at Mar 10, 2013 around 14:21 |
| # ? Mar 10, 2013 14:18 |
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Preoptopus posted:The only thing I can really throw in is that the Lexus is RWD and the RL is front wheel drive. The RL is AWD. Both of them are not "sports sedans" like a 5 series, so even if the RL was front wheel drive, it really doesn't matter. Both are going to be solid, reliable cars. They're going to be more expensive to maintain than a typical Toyota or Honda, but not in the realm of MB or BMW. I don't think you could go wrong with either choice.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 14:30 |
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drat! Had no idea they went to that in the last models. Knowing how much Honda automatic transmissions suck rear end I personally would shy away. You should get a Japanese made 2005 Infinity q45: RWD V8..... And then get Nissan President badges for it.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 14:43 |
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Preoptopus posted:drat! Had no idea they went to that in the last models. Knowing how much Honda automatic transmissions suck rear end I personally would shy away. I haven't ruled out the Q or M, but they are harder to come by.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 15:30 |
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Preoptopus posted:Knowing how much Honda automatic transmissions suck rear end I personally would shy away. Yeah, it's not 1994 anymore. They're fine now.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 15:50 |
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I can't speak to those particular models, but as someone who drives a giant 99 Deville as his daily driver, I heartily recommend it. Used luxury cars have all the amenities modern mid to low price cars are just getting, and are generally better cared for by their previous owners. You might have a Northstar V-8 in that Caddy, and if you do you're lucky because it's one of the newer ones that's not prone to head gasket issues. Of you drive a lot a used luxury car is fantastic for comfort, and the gas mileage isn't as bad as some people will get all  about.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 16:49 |
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Astroman posted:I can't speak to those particular models, but as someone who drives a giant 99 Deville as his daily driver, I heartily recommend it. Used luxury cars have all the amenities modern mid to low price cars are just getting, and are generally better cared for by their previous owners. I'd be happy with 25-27mpg highway. My Mazda does 29-31 so it wouldn't be that drastic of a change. My driving is about 75% highway. e: Been checking out Cadillac and Acura forums all morning. Looks like the RL, DTS, and STS are quite reliable aside from a few minor gremlins on early models. Now I ask myself..will I miss the stiff and fast cornering of my Mazda? angryhampster fucked around with this message at Mar 10, 2013 around 17:17 |
| # ? Mar 10, 2013 17:15 |
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angryhampster posted:' If you have to ask, the general rule is that you can't afford it.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 17:46 |
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angryhampster posted:Now I ask myself..will I miss the stiff and fast cornering of my Mazda? You definitely will if you get a Lexus. Their rides are notoriously boaty and mushy on everything except the rare handful of vaguely sporty models like IS300s and the LFA. Can't speak to the Acuras, though.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 18:15 |
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angryhampster posted:I'd be happy with 25-27mpg highway. My Mazda does 29-31 so it wouldn't be that drastic of a change. My driving is about 75% highway. My 99 gets 25mpg on average when I do a lot of highway driving. It's a little less now since I cut down my commute, but it's still acceptable. Sir Cornelius posted:If you have to ask, the general rule is that you can't afford it. The other advantage I'll give the Caddy is GM parts. While Cadillacs tend to cost more to fix than an economy car, the parts are cheaper than a lot of other brands and easy to find, crossing a lot of platforms. My biggest issues that cost the most to deal with were my headgasket went, which was a TON of money, but worth it because I intend on keeping the car for many years. But an '05 won't have that problem. The other major headache is electrical issues, because the car is heavily computerized, and that can be expensive, though I'm trying to work through them myself. Plus side is you can pull ODB codes right up on the dash, no reader or counting flashes required. And reset them. Besides the headgasket, and some shocks I'm switching out now, I've had to do no major repairs in 5 years. I hear there can be a transmission issue with my model, but it was shifting rough when I got it and the dealer sent it to a transmission shop before I bought it because I was a 2x customer and they're good like that. But that may not be the case for an '05...though there could be other bugs. I would suggest http://www.carcomplaints.com and pulling up all the cars you're looking at. Like I went there and researched my Deville before I bought it, and went in knowing the headgasket could be an issue. I chose to buy it anyway because I preferred the body style (I drive your grandpa's car; I look incredible) but at least I was prepared. Some people on here might even know of a better site. And yeah, check out car forums and read about those specific model years. For the Caddy, http://www.cadillacforums.com is the best, and http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/ is also good.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2013 18:17 |
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Just avoid BMW 7 series, later Mercedes S class and most of the Audis and you will be fine. The Cadillac DTS is actually a pretty solid car if, and the later year northstar engines are solid. And the transmission is pretty solid, but very low tech and only 4 gears.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2013 01:00 |
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angryhampster posted:Now I ask myself..will I miss the stiff and fast cornering of my Mazda? If you're buying a large luxury car, then stiff and fast cornering should not be your top concern. It should be more along the lines of diamond in the back, sunroof top, diggin the scene with the gangster lean...
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| # ? Mar 11, 2013 04:06 |
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I owned a 93 LS400 for a few years until recently. It was the one of the best cars I've ever owned. I'd recommend a Lexus LS in a second. Of course it's not a sports car but I honestly didn't think it was boaty or anything close to it, unlike US luxury cars of the past (I think all have gotten better at delivering a very comfortable ride). My grandfather drove caddys extensively and those were boats. The handling of the Lexus was quite confident. At the same time it was super quiet and soaked up road imperfections extremely well. You could turn the wheel with a pinky of course but it didn't float at all. The are extremely well made. Mine had original suspension parts which did not start to fail until 150K or so. The other side of this coin is that the parts are expensive. The engine to the day I got rid of it at 180K miles used 0 oil. NOt a drop. I also had the transmission fluid and filter changed in the last year I had it and my mechanic said the transmission looked great when he pulled the filter. The drivetrain was impeccable. Like all cars they have a few known issues but on mine all were well known and could be fixed. I finally got rid of mine because it would intermittently die. I think it was the computer (1200 or more new) but was ready to move on. I miss it greatly and would have probably paid for a new computer had I been 100% sure it was the problem. I don't know how cost of ownership of a Lexus compares to a Mercedes or BMW. My gut tells me the Lexus is going to be more reliable. It must certainly be true of those early LS's like mine vs similar offerings from other luxury manufacturers, but may not be the same case now. If you get a used one, prepare yourself for a grand in repairs just in case but with a good inspection I'd be confident to buy a used one.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2013 16:23 |
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Can't speak for the RL, but the LS is bullet proof. You shouldn't need to worry about anything not documented by TSBs or the normal maintenance schedule. If you're going to spending a lot of time in this car I would pay a lot of attention to the seats; Lexus seats can be quite plush and that is a minus to some, plus to others.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2013 18:43 |
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ZippySLC posted:Yeah, it's not 1994 anymore. They're fine now. Unless you bought a Honda/Acura between 1999 and 2003, and some of the TLs in 2004 had issues too. *edit* My wife has a GS430 from the same generation as the LS430s, and the car has been great. We've had the car for 10 years and 120k miles, and the only issues have been a broken seat heater (replaced under warranty), the lower control arms like to go out at ~70k miles, and just recently the blend control servo for the climate control has gone out (which you can clean and repair, don't even need to buy a new part). In terms of cost of maintenance, it's the cheapest car to maintain either of us have ever owned. MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at Mar 11, 2013 around 21:58 |
| # ? Mar 11, 2013 21:53 |
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All Honda automatics are garbage. Fact. 
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| # ? Mar 11, 2013 21:58 |
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I would buy a used Buick Lucerne with the v6. I see them with 5000 miles for around $12k fully loaded a lot. That V6 will go forever. The Northstar in them is the improved version but oil and gas consumption is usually much worse then the V6. Old people love them, but old people can only drive so long before they have to liquidate everything to stave off the Grimm Reaper. I love the USA.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 16:09 |
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Elephanthead posted:but old people can only drive so long before they have to liquidate everything to stave off the Grimm Reaper. I love the USA. drat dude  Do you hang out in trailer parks and wait for old people to die to buy their cars?
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 16:24 |
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On the Northstar front -- pre-00 cars are notorious head gasket eaters, in particular '99s. The head bolts literally pull out of the block, forcing a had removal/rethreading. In '00 they lengthened the head bolts, which hold up better, but did not completely eliminate the issue. In late '04 they changed to a longer head bolt WITH a more coarse thread and this combo seems to have been the final fix.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 16:26 |
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leica posted:drat dude If you search the obits and can find a number, call it and ask about the car for sale. You can find some pretty cheap cars that way. They're usually low mileage and over maintained but with minor damage on the bumpers and mirrors.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 16:45 |
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trouser chili posted:If you search the obits and can find a number, call it and ask about the car for sale. You can find some pretty cheap cars that way. They're usually low mileage and over maintained but with minor damage on the bumpers and mirrors. That is so anti-social and predatory. I love it.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 17:06 |
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Thats a great idea, especially if the family is hurting for money to pay the cost of the funeral. 
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 17:12 |
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meatpimp posted:That is so anti-social and predatory. I love it.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 17:37 |
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InitialDave posted:It's either that or the cars will probably just go to auction for a fraction of what they're worth. If the family isn't really interested in either keeping the car or getting the best price possible (and let's face it, selling your own car is hassle enough, never mind someone else's when you're already stressed out), what this means is that someone who actively wants the car gets it, and the family get more money than they would otherwise. I'd view it as a good thing. No, it is absolutely predatory. Don't mistake it for "helping." If you are internet detectiving someone's personal number that just lost someone close to them, in an effort to get a good deal on a car (when they haven't actively offered it for sale), that's an rear end in a top hat move. I'm not saying that it may not be effective, but still an rear end in a top hat move. At least in the States, the address where people in the obits live are flooded with casket sales, cemetary offers, all kinds of morbid poo poo. It's not cool and often harmful to the people who lost loved ones. This is just like that. quote:If the family isn't really interested in either keeping the car or getting the best price possible
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 17:41 |
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its predatory, but i laughed at the idea of it and if i was in the business of being a sleazy car flipper i would try it.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 17:43 |
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meatpimp posted:Don't white knight it and say that it's "trying to help," it's predatory. If I copped it, and I didn't have my like-minded friends and family who know what my various detritus actually is, I'd rather AI-type people made offers on my stuff than it just got clearanced out or thrown away.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 17:59 |
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InitialDave posted:You're happy with the idea as long as you think it's seedy, then go off on one at the idea that this particular cloud might have a silver lining. You're a strange guy. I like the idea in the ephemeral, but to actually advocate acting on the idea is a completely different issue. But, back on thread topic -- My last two rides have been in this category: 1996 LS400 followed by the 2002 Deville. If the Deville was RWD, I'd be in love. The ability to do lurid fishtails in a big boat never gets old. The Lexus was pretty simple to maintain, similar with the Caddy. Parts for the Caddy, though? Can't beat it. I just had a water pump idler pulley go out... 5 minutes on Amazon and I've got the parts to replace the complete tensioner with pulley and the water pump drive belt on the way to me for under $65. meatpimp fucked around with this message at Mar 12, 2013 around 18:17 |
| # ? Mar 12, 2013 18:12 |
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trouser chili posted:If you search the obits and can find a number, call it and ask about the car for sale. You can find some pretty cheap cars that way. They're usually low mileage and over maintained but with minor damage on the bumpers and mirrors. Well, I've got a new mental image of you now. 
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 21:03 |
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IOwnCalculus posted:Well, I've got a new mental image of you now. I also like to pick up chicks at abortion clinics. You know they put out and they don't want kids.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 21:31 |
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trouser chili posted:I also like to pick up chicks at abortion clinics. You know they put out and they don't want kids. Okay that's weird. I was only thinking of that movie a few minutes ago for some unknown reason. Can I add that luxobarges or in general cars with luxury trim levels are designed to nickel and dime the owners to death, except it's usually hundreds and thousands instead. I've owned a few and every time it's caused so many headaches. Why do I do it? I don't know! I don't even like luxury cars. I just sort of end up with them. About the only things really of note with the current Fairlane is that rear passengers have leg room and the sound deadening is superior to lower trim levels. Why some executive could force himself on some unsuspecting underling in the back seat and nobody would hear a peep.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 21:51 |
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I didn't experience any nickel and dime problems with my LS400. My 83 300D did, but not my LS. Both were equally old when I drove them. The LS didn't break little things. Big things wore out and were expensive to replace with OEM, like suspension parts, after a shitload of miles. But I don't see how one can count wear items. On the other hand the little things - places you touch like handles and armrests and all, a rear view that dims with LCD, etc, basically anything on the inside was just wonderful. Reading this thread makes me want another. I think it's a part of getting older, maybe that's why grandpas all drive them. Old dudes want luxury? I dunno.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 22:33 |
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| # ? May 24, 2013 21:25 |
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Sten Freak posted:Old dudes want luxury? I dunno. Well, they had some prestige to them as well. But they are very boring cars, reliable, but boring, and that appeals to the masses. OP - For what its worth, a well cared for BMW E39/E34 are one of the most reliable German mid sized sedans made. Though the E60's are starting to prove themselves worthy, at least the 04-06 models are, the jury is still out on the newer ones. The iDrive can poo poo itself, but that's a 1000 trip to the dealer.
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| # ? Mar 12, 2013 22:57 |
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