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Hey, so I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about where I am in life and where I am going. I'm a 22 year old college senior graduating in a few short weeks and am about to commission as an officer in the Army. I live in a house with 6 other people since my sophomore year, and all of them have found girlfriends or fuckbuddies seemingly naturally with no real effort and I'm really depressed that I have never found anyone or anything. For fucks sake half of them are getting married in like two months. I tend to be a more quiet and reserved person, and I probably spend too much time alone. I've been constantly getting pressure from all of these friends and even my parents to find a girl and to do stuff but I think I'm honestly afraid of being with women like that and the whole scenario just makes me feel like I can never measure up. I only told a girl who was a friend that I loved her over a text way back in high school and I obviously got rejected. In retrospect I ignored signs that some of them were interested in me until it blew up in my face without me knowing what was going on. I don't really know the first thing about being with girls and I've only kissed a few when both of us were pretty drunk, which in hindsight made me feel used and awkward since they usually initiated it. I don't have enough time to experiment anymore in a college environment. A lot in my life is about to change and I'm honest enough with myself to admit that I'm scared shitless. I feel depressed and helpless, and now that I've sold my soul to the government for 7 years I have no chance at finding anyone as easily as I could have in college. Sorry about the text dump but I really feel like I need to tell someone, anyone, this stuff.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 18:36 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 04:18 |
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Maybe you should go to a bar or something, OP, talk to a few chicks. They aren't Demons from the Netherworld, beguiling you with their genitals of lust, they're just people. Get a few friends who are girls, talk to them about what's going on, they can probably introduce you to some of their single friends. If you just relax and chat and don't act like an emotionally crippled ubersperg then you'll find that most people are friendly and open, and maybe some of the people that you talk to will want to put your penis in their mouth. RE: the friend you told her that you loved her, that was dumb. But you were in high school. High school is the kind of place where bored teenagers will jerk off in the bathrooms and then draw a swastika and leave. People do dumb weird poo poo in high school, it's expected of you. But you seem like you've grown out of that, and now instead just be more open and friendly instead of a curled little ball of anxiety in the corner.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 19:29 |
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Console yourself in the knowledge that unlike your friends, you will probably not be getting a divorce any time soon.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 19:32 |
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Really the best advice is to just go for it. I was in a similar situation in my early 20s - never had a relationship in high school and I skipped college and went directly into full time employment. I was pretty down on myself after turning 22 and did something about it. I put a profile up on a couple of dating sites and within a few months I met my wife, and we've been together for going on 8 years this summer. You make your position as a junior officer candidate sound bad, but realistically you have a lot to offer a potential spouse - stable employment with pretty much guaranteed promotion for the next five plus years, decent health insurance and paid for housing, to list a few - which are all a big loving deal in today's economy. I've been working at a "real" job for nearly 10 years now, and I only got offered insurance worth buying after quitting my previous job of 8 years and going to work for a better employer. Don't sell yourself short m Geoj fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2013 around 19:36 |
| # ? Mar 16, 2013 19:33 |
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If the OP feels that having a decent job is a considerable part of what makes him worth dating, then he should work on that, because drat, that's pretty depressing. "What do I have to offer other people? Well, I have job." 
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 19:40 |
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Safe and Secure! posted:If the OP feels that having a decent job is a considerable part of what makes him worth dating, then he should work on that, because drat, that's pretty depressing. Have you looked at DoD pay tables recently? It's not like we're talking about "hurr I got hired part time at the wal-mart honey, we'll be able to eat kraft mac n cheese three times a week now!" A friend of mine from high school who I keep in regular contact with got commissioned in the army in 2007, is now a captain and clears $6k/month. Combine that with having your housing mostly paid for and your other benefits paid for and it's a big deal. Also I wasn't implying that's all he has to offer, just pointing out that being an officer in the armed forces isn't all bad like he was kind of cracking it up to be.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 19:51 |
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hate pants posted:Maybe you should go to a bar or something, OP, talk to a few chicks. They aren't Demons from the Netherworld, beguiling you with their genitals of lust, they're just people. Get a few friends who are girls, talk to them about what's going on, they can probably introduce you to some of their single friends. If you just relax and chat and don't act like an emotionally crippled ubersperg then you'll find that most people are friendly and open, and maybe some of the people that you talk to will want to put your penis in their mouth. Maybe my original post makes me sound worse than I actually am. I've been to bars ever since I turned 21 on and off, they really just aren't the kind of bars that people go to talk to one another. Let me clarify by saying that I've had friends that are girls, but they usually have boyfriends or are not interested in me. I know that women are people, same as anyone else. I can and am able to act cool and relaxed when in social situations. I just feel like there's some switch that I keep missing when it comes to starting up anything romantic. I'm glad that high school is over, and I know that I was a huge dumbass back then. EDIT- The officer in the army thing is a sweet gig, and I'm glad that I made it. I just wish I could be more successful in my personal life. Can anyone offer any actual advice about meeting people in the regular, college free world? Is online dating full of crazies? Bogard fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2013 around 21:13 |
| # ? Mar 16, 2013 19:56 |
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Bogard posted:Is online dating full of crazies? When I did it in 2004/5 there was a much higher percentage of crazy to normal (this was back when it was still highly stigmatized as "you're going to end up sticking your dick in a bear trap/end up with a certifiable crazy person"), today it's more or less one of the most common methods for meeting people. Think of it as going to a bar with a much larger pool of people to choose from and just use your common sense, most of the really crazy people are easy to spot a mile away. There are also internet dating threads in the other forums (PYF and A/T that I know of, probably more in others) that you might check out if you want to get a feel for what to expect before creating a profile.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 21:23 |
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Meeting people at parties or through friends or in bars is full of crazies, too. You've just got to get out there.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 21:48 |
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Yeah, online dating has become increasingly mainstream and is totally legit nowadays. If you think you'd be in your comfort zone meeting people that way, definitely go for it
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 21:49 |
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Bogard posted:EDIT- The officer in the army thing is a sweet gig, and I'm glad that I made it. I just wish I could be more successful in my personal life. Can anyone offer any actual advice about meeting people in the regular, college free world? Is online dating full of crazies? It's going to partially depend where you get stationed - the closer to a big city, the better the chance of finding someone. Whatever you do, ask their rank before you meet them if they say they're military to avoid the potential of some fun fraternization charges.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 22:10 |
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OP, you actually sound a lot like me when I started college (about to graduate this summer). Did stupid things in high school, acted like a goony gently caress. I honestly don't know what happened, but I opened up. Might have been the fact that I got a new part time job sophomore year where I wasn't alone doing something, but forced to interact with people. I'm still slow to socialize, according to coworkers I just "need time to come out of my shell" before I start holding regular conversations with new people. And of course this leads to relationships or connections that lead to future relationships. Honestly it just kinda happens. In short, open up, talk to people, get a bit out of your comfort zone.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 22:31 |
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Bogard posted:Is online dating full of crazies? Yes but do it anyway. You can sort through em pretty easily.
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| # ? Mar 16, 2013 23:42 |
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hate pants posted:RE: the friend you told her that you loved her, that was dumb.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 02:50 |
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Manchild King posted:Why was it dumb? Take your pick: High school Admitting love via text Telling someone who had no idea you felt that way that you love them via text Telling someone that via text is pretty cowardly and immature and dumb (see: high school)
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 02:56 |
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OK then that sort of makes sense. I've done it and it went poorly of course. I guess online dating could work well for some. It's not just crazies anymore. There's single mothers too.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 03:18 |
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And maybe even bodybuilders!
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 03:22 |
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Manchild King posted:OK then that sort of makes sense. I've done it and it went poorly of course. In the big cities there tends to be neither. Or rather you'd have a harder time finding either than a normal 20 something working professional.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 04:42 |
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Those people that get married in their early twenties are more terrified of being alone for the rest of their lives than you are OP, and that's why they rush into marriage. It usually never lasts. Of the few people my age I know that got married, they ALL ended up getting divorced. I knew this girl who was just clearly trying to grow up faster than her peers, so she met some dude online, and 6-8 months later she married him and moved away. I ended up running into her a couple years later, and I said "I heard you got married" and her expression changed to a reserved kinda smile, like she was obviously embarrassed to reveal that she was already divorced and back at home with her parents. She was always a very condescending person so I was somewhat laughing on the inside after learning that everything fell through for her.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 09:41 |
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waffle posted:Yeah, online dating has become increasingly mainstream and is totally legit nowadays. If you think you'd be in your comfort zone meeting people that way, definitely go for it Yeah but you still have to you know, go outside, meet them then make conversation for a few hours which is pretty daunting in itself. Make an effort not to say no to anything people invite you to and soon enough you will meet people through your circles of friends. It really isnt rocket surgery.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 10:21 |
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If it's really important to your friends and family for you to be in a relationship, they should be finding you a partner. If its really important to you, you should be putting in the effort.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 17:22 |
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So I decided to get off of my rear end and make an Ok Cupid profile. The online dating megathread got taken down awhile ago right? I don't really know the first thing about online dating, so any pointers? Can I pm my profile to some of you for critiquing?
Bogard fucked around with this message at Mar 17, 2013 around 21:04 |
| # ? Mar 17, 2013 20:50 |
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As long as you don't let it bug you, being afraid of relationships is actually a blessing in disguise. You'll find out what I mean when you hit 45.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2013 21:06 |
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Bogard posted:So I decided to get off of my rear end and make an Ok Cupid profile. The online dating megathread got taken down awhile ago right? I don't really know the first thing about online dating, so any pointers? Can I pm my profile to some of you for critiquing? OkCupid is a great website and you can meet a lot of cool people on it. I've been very successful with it. Like you, I literally almost never dated/kissed anyone/done other stuff/etc until I started using it. I'm now a very confident and far more experienced person with women. It's great! Edit: I sperged out on this and edited it a bunch. Sorry, but you asked for pointers, and I provide. Generally speaking, it's agreed by most that pictures are perhaps the most important thing to generate the initial click. Absolutely no self photos in a mirror, no ab shots, no photos wearing a fedora or other 'ironic' hat, no facial hair, and no webcam photos. Try to use full body pictures - headshots-only implies that the rest of you is fat (which is by far the biggest handicap for many users). Seeing as you're about to become an officer, I doubt that's a problem for you. It helps an ungodly amount if you're naturally attractive, or in good shape due to exercise/diet. There's only so much camera angle and lighting and clothing can do for you - if you're out of shape, people will probably notice and you need to hit the gym. I worked out for a year straight before I started dating because I knew I needed to look better, and you know what? It worked. (then again, I'm sure you're in good shape!) Have multiple photos, both of just you and of you in a group having fun. Some of the best photos are of people doing something awesome or unique - you'll get a lot of clicks if you have one of these. Try to avoid putting boring stuff every has like "I like all kinds of music except rap and country!" or "Sometimes I can be reserved and like having a quiet evening at home, but other times I'm a party animal!" or "I like to read and watch movies!" Avoid being overly verbose - there are some trainwreck OKC profiles that literally go on for paragraphs and paragraphs of blah blah blah. It's best to be witty, highlight hobbies that are interesting (and it's good to do this with photos - show, don't tell), and punctual. Avoid talking a lot about politics or religion - save those for the questions (more on that below) and you'll already filter out a lot of matches you wouldn't be compatible with. I should be able to read your profile in 5 minutes. There's no real secret formula to writing a great profile, and no matter what you write, you won't get responses from everyone you message. The megathread used to get itself all hot and bothered about how much guys (and a few girls) should highlight nerdy hobbies, like video games or LARPing or Dungeons and Dragons or comics or anime or whatever. Generally speaking, these things are more acceptable than they used to be and if they're a big part of your life it's okay to mention them, but be aware that some people are very turned off by stuff like that. Don't make your profile exclusively about some dorky hobby like gaming or collecting anime, and then whine about how no one ever messages you back. Show you have multiple interests. One other thing the megathread would spend ages talking about is height. Many girls will not guys who are shorter than them. It sucks, but you just have to deal with it. People here might disagree violently with me, but generally speaking I say it's a good idea to not lie about your height. If you're like 5'10" or taller you don't have much to worry about. Just be aware that if you are a shorter guy, that might be the reason you don't get a response from some girls. Do not anywhere in your profile say that you're a "nice guy" or complain about how women always go for douchebags. Never use the term "friendzoned". That's a red flag. Generally, DO NOT WHINE OR COMPLAIN anywhere on your profile about really anything. It's unattractive when you're first meeting someone. This by the way is good advice for first dates too. Answer as many of the questions as you can. 400-500 is a good number for this. Your matches will improve substantially if you do this. If you're a virgin, you probably should avoid any questions dealing with this topic directly, as that will turn off some people. No need to give away too much. People DO read your answers to your questions after you message them, and some might be turned off if your answers are douchey. Avoid indicating anything about not wanting to date overweight people or anything that sounds like something an rear end in a top hat would say, (like answering that it's "not okay" if a partner only wants gentle sex - that's douchey even if it's true). People can be very sensitive about their weight, and what you may consider fat could be very different from someone else. If you indicate that you won't date someone who's 'even slightly overweight,' you may not get responses from people you messaged because you just made them feel insecure even if it never crossed your mind that they think they're overweight. No need to hamstring yourself like that. When you're cruising matches, it might be a good idea to make yourself anonymous. If you don't, people can see that you've visited their profile, and if you start to creep-stalk a girl to see if she's been on (and thus has read your message), it can turn them off. Being anonymous means you can visit other profiles without them knowing. You won't get to see who visits you (this can help tell you who might be interested), but I find the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. So that's in a nutshell my advice on making a profile. But that's just the first part. The real important thing is how to write good messages, and how to have good first/second dates. First, you should be aware that as a guy you will get far less first messages than a girl. A decently attractive girl will net anywhere from 1-5 messages a day if they're active, while some guys never get messaged first. I probably get 1-2 messages a month from women first. The point is that if you want dates, you typically have to be the first to message. So gently caress shyness. Now, when you write a first message, it's best to have it be around 2-3 sentences long. One time I got a first message that I swear was like almost two paragraphs, and I was really turned off by the end of it. You don't want to ooze desperation like that person did, so keep it short and sweet. Use proper grammar and syntax. Use proper grammar and syntax. Remember that decent looking girls are going to be getting about 1-5 messages a day sometimes, so you have to compete with that. Fortunately for you, most guys are idiots and will send first messages like 'hi' or 'yo' or 'how are you you are hot.' I'm not even exaggerating. So you already have a leg up if you can write a sentence. The second rule is to never comment on anything about them physically. Don't say they have pretty eyes, or a pretty face, or a nice body, or that they're hot, or anything like that. Save it for the second date. A few people might be receptive to that, but most will be creeped out, especially from a stranger on the internet. So what do you write? Well, there's no real formula to it. If a girl says in her profile that she likes something or that she does something that you both have in common, ask her a question about it. If she says she's in college, ask what she studies (this is sort of a lame question though, try to find something more interesting if you can). If she says she likes to run, ask if she's got any races coming up. The point is to write a message that shows you bothered to read her profile, and found something interesting about it. The guys who just write 'hi' usually just look at the picture and immediately send that out. Generally speaking, do not ask to meet in the first message. If she's receptive, she'll write back. Then just have a conversation over the course of a few days. I usually reveal my name by the second message - most girls will get the hint and respond with theirs (and some will tell you first). Now, if you get her talking, your chances of getting a first date are really high. However, at the risk of sounding sexist, it's rare for the girl to ask you out for coffee/tea first. In the roughly two years and 40 or so women I've gone out with at least once, I can think of maybe four who asked me out to coffee first. So you have to man up and do it yourself. People will lose interest fast if all you do is message back and forth a bunch without asking anyone out. For me, I find that I have the best success if I ask them out within three messages. Any shorter and it could be creepy, any longer and they'll lose interest. Some people debate how long you should wait to message back - I don't think this matters very much, but generally if I get a message from a girl, I usually wait 4-8 hours before responding back so I don't seem overeager. I don't think this actually is that important, and people are free to call me out on this. Usually just ask them for coffee or tea - it's best not to go for a full dinner on the first date because if you realize you're not compatible, it's way easier to shorten a coffee date than a dinner date. Many times I find that if I like a girl on the first date and we're having a good time, I'll ask her if she's hungry and we'll get dinner anyways. Always offer to pay. Say what you will about modern dating, but once I started to always pay for the first dinner/coffee, my success rate at getting second/third dates skyrocketed. Try to exchange phone numbers before you meet - sometimes things come up and you may need to adjust plans. Once you have a number, try to do everything offsite from there. First dates that aren't coffee/tea can be cool too, but are a little harder to pull off if you don't know the person well. Avoid going to a movie - the point of the first date is to talk and get to know each other, and you can't do that when you're both too busy watching something. Save that one for later. I've taken girls to museums for first dates sometimes - another time I took one to a street market. If it's nice outside, don't stay cooped up in Starbucks the whole time - go for a walk outside and find a nice place to sit and talk. Also, don't dominate the conversation. People LOVE to talk about themselves, so just ask questions and let her talk (at least to start). I'm not saying to be quiet and reserved, just don't blah blah blah about anything. Also, don't pussyfoot around calling it a date. It's a dating website, so if you're meeting and you didn't explicitly say it was just as friends, it's a date. In the megathread we used to get into debates about this and it was dumb. If you have a good time, it's usually considered okay to hug at the end of a first date. I've never kissed anyone on a first date, but that's just me. If you feel like you should, go for it but don't be surprised if she thinks it's too soon. Of course if you read the megathread you'll find stories of people loving in bathrooms on the first date, so YMMV (these always turn into trainwrecks fwiw). However, as a personal observation if you don't at least try to kiss by the end of the second date, it's probably not going to go anywhere and your chances of a third date become slim (if you do get a kiss, that third date will be almost guaranteed). And by 'kiss' I mean a nice kiss on the lips after dinner before you both leave for the night - it doesn't have to be a tongue-down-the-throat-full-makeout (though if it turns into that go for it!). As a guy, it's sort of 'expected' that you be the one to initiate - trust me, she'll stop you if she's not interested (I have however been beaten to the punch by one girl who kissed me first). This can be nerve-wracking if you're shy or haven't had much experience with women (the second date is by far the most make-or-break one of the early dates and I'm always the most nervous on them), but it gets easier with experience. I always like to have at least one early date where I cook for the girl - women love it if you can show that you can cook, and I love cooking for people, so it's win-win. It's generally considered creepy to invite a girl to your apartment or house as a first date - most will be really uncomfortable meeting anywhere that isn't public. Sometimes you'll have such a good time that you might end up back at your place (this has never happened to me, but it did to plenty in megathread), but you should never start with that. I usually save this for the third or fourth date. Also, there are few faster ways to ensure a bad first date than to bring along or meet up with any of your friends. I know it sounds obvious not to do this, but super nervous/clueless people might be tempted so they feel more relaxed. Don't stare at her chest while talking to her (so many guys do this, and women notice), look directly in her eyes and lean forward a little to show that you're physically interested (but not too much). It's also good not to dump a bunch of cologne or perfume on yourself - I've had a few dates where I swear my eyes started to water up over how pungent the other person smelled because they overdid it. Wear age appropriate clothes. Some guys have a 'three day rule' before they ask a girl out on a second or third date. This is stupid. If I have a good time on the first date, I will text her within an hour saying so and wishing her a good night. If she responds with a ditto, then the chances of getting a second date are high. If she doesn't respond, the chances are lower but not dead. No matter what, I then text or call the next day to ask her out a second time. Usually this will be a dinner date, so have a restaurant in mind (and of course offer to pay at the end). If she responds, great! Do not order food that is sloppy to eat or something you know can sometimes make you sick (I've had at least two dates completely wrecked by my dumb decision to get something spicy - resulting in me crapping my guts out in a bathroom while my date has to wait outside. I didn't hear back from them). Also, try not to get drunk. It's also best during a first/second date to not bring up a bunch of personal issues - things like family drama, medical history, unsure future plans, anything, even positive things, about any ex-girlfriends, etc. If she doesn't respond to a call or a text, do not try to repeatedly contact her. It's easy to rationalize this by saying "oh, well, maybe she missed my last text or message! I'll just try again!" She got the message dude, and she's not interested. It's creepy and borderline stalkerish to keep trying to get a second date if you don't hear back. Some guys in the megathread would get really creepy in trying to hear back from a girl. Don't be like them. Send one text or leave one voicemail. Some girls will let you know directly that they just aren't interested, but many will simply not contact you as their way of saying 'no.' If you have the opposite situation where you don't want to go out a second or third time with a girl and she contacts you again saying she does, it's okay and even polite to let her know that you're not interested so she doesn't get her hopes up. I hate hurting people's feelings, so I try to do this as gently as possible. Saying things like "I just don't think we're very compatible" or "I don't think it's going to work out" are fine - don't give too much detail as that's sort of rude. Don't offer to be friends unless you actually intend to be friends with them (and this DOES happen sometimes, and it's great because friends are awesome too!). Some people do the 'letsjustbefriends' thing because they think it's a nice way to let someone down without actually intending to be friends. It's not nice. Also, with OKC it's generally acceptable to message/go out with multiple people. Don't just message one girl, wait a bunch for a response, then message another. That's what I did at first, and it was dumb. If you want a date, message between 6-12 in the same day. Most guys report a response rate of around 30%. For some it's way higher, for others it's almost zero. If you're getting no responses, take a good look at your profile (especially your pictures) and your messages. Like I say, kill anything that even remotely stinks of douchiness (aka any sexism, judgement about looks, etc). I've not messaged back plenty of girls who've messaged me first, despite the fact that I was physically attracted to them, because I found something I didn't like in their profile or their questions. There are plenty of reasons girls don't message back, so don't get too bummed if one doesn't. Don't become obsessed with or pine over a girl in a profile who doesn't respond back. It's weird, and there are plenty of girls on OKC. Sometimes a guy has already beat you to the punch and she just hasn't deactivated her profile yet. Some girls just don't date guys younger than them, some don't date men who are still students, some don't date outside of their race or religion, etc. And honestly some will just find you not attractive. It's totally fine too, because you'll be put in similar situations when a girl messages you that you're not into (do not message her back if you don't intend to ask her out - it builds up false hope and is mean). Sometimes she just hasn't been able to respond because of family issues or emergencies or holidays...I've gotten messages almost a month after I sent the first one because a girl just didn't have time to read them until then. Above all, just have fun! The above isn't meant to be some sort of exhausted protocol that works every time. Women aren't just "push this button combo to unlock this feature," they're people, so relax if you make a mistake or two. You'll get more comfortable and better at it as you gain experience. Don't get too discouraged either if you don't have a lot of success at first. Everyone has dry spells. I've had times where I send out 10 messages and get 8 responses, I've had other times where I get maybe one. I had a string of maybe ten or so first dates where no matter what I did I couldn't get a second date. poo poo happens, but don't just give up. I've had some great relationships start on OKC because I kept going even after rejection, and they were some of the best things in my life. Like I say, OKC is a great website and I really appreciate all it's done for me. Good luck! Pfirti86 fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2013 around 13:58 |
| # ? Mar 17, 2013 22:26 |
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Wow, thanks! Some of the stuff mentioned is kind of obvious, but I think I did an ok job on the profile. I tend to be a bit moody sometimes, so I'm sorry if I came off as excessively whiny or negative during my previous posts. Sometimes the hardest things to do are the most rewarding, and getting out of your comfort zone is one of them. Maybe I was nervous or afraid of rejection since I didn't really have any role models when I was young on which I can based what relationships should look like. Getting raised by two parents with hermit like lifestyles and bad social skills doesn't help much either, so I've sort of had to figure out a lot of socializing and interacting with others on my own. I also sometimes question whether getting into a relationship is a good idea right now considering where I am going and what I am doing. It's all about priorities and what you want out of life. I guess I just needed some people to hear me talk and give me a boot to the rear end to get out of my comfort zone again.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 13:04 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 04:18 |
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Bogard posted:Wow, thanks! Some of the stuff mentioned is kind of obvious You'd think so, but examples abounded in the megathread of people doing the opposite of each one of my points. I really wish I had a post like that when I started dating, would have saved me a ton of trouble! Pfirti86 fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2013 around 14:02 |
| # ? Mar 18, 2013 13:38 |
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