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Recently I decided that being Mormon is not how I want to live, and my mom, and to a lesser extent, my dad, do not understand why I choose to be that way and I feel that they think I am "lost". I was born into mormonism, and since an early age I have disagreed with the mormon church. Still, I did what was asked of me because I was young and easy to control. Well, now I quit. Anyway, I have explained that I disagree with mormonism because they believe that people have minimal control over their own existence. Mormons believe that if you do not follow the church you are following "the world" and will end up in hell or whathefuckever and wont be as happy as you could be. So I told my parents how it is: I believe that all people can judge good from bad themselves and that so long as they are good people and do what is generally considered to be right, they will be happy after death. And why does God get to decide who is right and wrong? Because he is perfect? Because he is more powerful? Why do people require to be baptized? What difference does it make, why can't people make their own decisions? I believe that I don't need to be told what is right and wrong, I don't need to be married in some fancy building to live with the people I love, I do not need fancy underpants to remind me to do good, and I do not need a god or a devil telling me whether I am right or wrong. And if I am wrong, gently caress it, because I don't care what some supreme being says, I choose my own god-damned fate. So obviously my parents are not happy about that. They aren't going to reject me, because they are good people. I told them that I do not think religion is stupid and I don't think religious people are stupid. I simply disagree and want to choose things myself.I told them that I am not atheist, which is the truth, and that I simply do not care to join any religion because I choose my own beliefs. However, I feel that my parents are sad whenever I am around, and I respect them way too much to not care. How do I get them to be happy with my decision? Or at least get over it? Moving out is currently impossible due to insufficient income, so that will not help.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 20:08 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 14:17 |
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Moving past the fact that you've obviously going to get sympathetic responses for your critique of religion by posting on an internet forum, I think you might be approaching this wrong: Your parents' objection to your disagreement is working on two levels. First, it's an emotional argument, not a theological one. You're not going to successfully convince them of how well-formed your philosophy is because what they want- what most people want- is to know that their loved ones have similar beliefs to them. The responsibility for reconciling that truth with the reality of who you are and what you believe falls on them, not you. Offer your love, support, and respect, as you have been doing. You won't be able to convince them to come around logically, however, and you won't convince them to respect the beliefs you've arrived at. That's a journey they need to take. Secondly, as you are probably very familiar, the culture of the Mormon church puts very strong social pressures on people to stay part of the church. This pressure trickles down to friends, family, and relationships, to the point where if someone were to leave, they face being cut off from their entire social network. I applaud your courage for confronting these pressures, but be aware your parents may be unable or unwilling to do the same. Their sadness and pressure for you to stop being "lost" may only be the pressures of their community speaking for them. Again, whether or not they're able to successfully resist that urge to condemn you or cut you off is their choice. You can only show that you love them no matter what. Ultimately their sadness is another way to attempt to pressure you to change, because they may still think that's possible. Stay resolute. If they are good people who love you, ultimately your choice of religion will mean less to them than you do. If not, well, remember that they're the ones making that choice.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 20:21 |
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You need to worry about your own happiness first. Whatever creed you follow is your decision, not theirs. Their happiness is largely irrelevant. Stop seeking their approval for your decision because you won't get it.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 20:22 |
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They'll adapt. Just continue to demonstrate that you are a caring, grounded, respectful person and the sting will eventually fade. It's apparently quite a bit of a blow to the ego when your kid refuses to internalize your most deeply held beliefs, but most parents are decent enough to accept it when it happens. Eventually. Comedy answer: convince them that you are also gay, let them believe it for a day or two, then let them know the truth as a lesson on how to count their blessings. 
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 20:24 |
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why is everyone named i am the moon ex mormon this is weird.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 20:37 |
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Tubba Blubba posted:You need to worry about your own happiness first. Yep. The way to make them stop looking at you wistfully is to be how they are wishing you were. It's really more of their problem, but I still feel for you. I think you just have to tough it out. Being sweet to them might help a little bit. It sure couldn't hurt!
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 20:55 |
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You could try explaining to your parents that you still hold the same good values as them, you just have different beliefs. Values are things like morals, what is right and what is wrong, and those can be shaped by our beliefs, but they can be shared between many different belief systems. You can point out how that guy they hate who is Mormon does not share the same values they do, so obviously you can share the same values that they do. On specific issues where their beliefs dictate a different value, you can argue that a shared value is more important and therefore supercedes it - for example, kindness to others/ avoiding cruelty supercedes 'traditional marriage.' Religious Persecution (and persecution in general) is built on "othering" people - removing the shared humanity and making them alien and different. You can combat that by accentuating the things you share, to avoid being othered and alien. And to echo what everyone said, at the end of the day, your wellbeing is more important than their opinions of your wellbeing. If they can't be happy with you being happy with yourself, there's a real breakdown in the relationship there. It might take years to get them to accept your decision, and even then they might not, because you're challenging a core and fundamental belief as important to them as your desire for independence from Mormonism is to you. Religion is not a trend or fashion that we can shuck and change, it's part of what we define ourselves as we change those trends and fashions. So don't base your happiness on their approval, because you're asking them to have a life-redefining epiphany that can't happen overnight.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 20:59 |
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I am the M00N posted:Anyway, I have explained that I disagree with mormonism because they believe that people have minimal control over their own existence. Mormons believe that if you do not follow the church you are following "the world" and will end up in hell or whathefuckever and wont be as happy as you could be. Them mormons are a real happy bunch. So much so that 1 in 5 women in Utah are on anti depressants.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 21:04 |
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I figured that the problem was on their end. I just hope they can move on one day. Fortunately, my parents are generally open-minded. They are much less fanatical than the more alienating members of the church, and often swear, watch rated R movies (we've been watching Game of Thrones lately), and frequently spend time with non-mormon friends. Which is why I hope they can move on.I AM THE MOON posted:why is everyone named i am the moon ex mormon So you are why I couldn't put two 'O's in my name! And yeah that is weird. I am the M00N fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2013 around 21:43 |
| # ? Mar 19, 2013 21:31 |
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Are they very devout? Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my cursory understanding of the religion, Mormons believe that the ones who are punished most harshly after death (i.e. the ones who go straight to fire and brimstone HELL) are the apostates. Regular folks who just happen to not be Mormon go to some kind of mildly pleasant half-heaven, provided they were decent people. If your parents truly believe in their religion, then I'm sure most of their concern is genuinely about your well being (as opposed to the typical passive-aggressive attempts to get others to believe similarly to themselves, as is typical with most religious disagreements), and any kind of explanation about how you're still a loving, caring person with all or most of the same values will fall on deaf ears. Who cares about your values when you're going to burn in Satan's dark inferno for all eternity? I guess what I'm saying is that unless your parents have a relatively loose interpretation of the religion, there isn't going to be any meaningful resolution here. Don't cave to them and convert back, though. That's just depressing.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 21:37 |
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CAustin posted:I guess what I'm saying is that unless your parents have a relatively loose interpretation of the religion, there isn't going to be any meaningful resolution here. Don't cave to them and convert back, though. That's just depressing. You might be surprised. There are some hardcore people that will just never accept their child acting against their deeply held beliefs, but for many parents, their love and concern for their child can eventually trump their faith, or at least allow them to bend it slightly.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 21:45 |
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Yeah, I caved once and went on a mission for 9 months and after 9 months that were easily the worst in my entire life, I said gently caress it and quit. My parents were actually surprised that I stayed for so long though, so that turned out fine. I am still furious at the people I met on my mission and I will go apeshit if I see them again. FUUUUUCK! I am certain my parents mean well, and I know that Mormonism is all they have ever followed (both are from families that have been mormon since 1880). I figure that they will be fine though, I have a feeling that they knew I was going to do this.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 21:53 |
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I'm sure you know this already, but there's a lot of resources available on http://exmormon.org/ - most notably other people's accounts of leaving the church. Have you officially withdrawn, sent a letter asking for your name to be withdrawn from the official rolls? I know many people who leave the church when young and still living with / dependent on their parents find it very helpful to get up to that stage then back off - by not 'officially' leaving, you still belong, even in name only. There's a fairly large number of mormons who don't believe and don't want anything to do with the church, but don't take that final step as a form of compromise to maintain family relations.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 22:10 |
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CAustin posted:Are they very devout? Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my cursory understanding of the religion, Mormons believe that the ones who are punished most harshly after death (i.e. the ones who go straight to fire and brimstone HELL) are the apostates. Regular folks who just happen to not be Mormon go to some kind of mildly pleasant half-heaven, provided they were decent people. If your parents truly believe in their religion, then I'm sure most of their concern is genuinely about your well being (as opposed to the typical passive-aggressive attempts to get others to believe similarly to themselves, as is typical with most religious disagreements), and any kind of explanation about how you're still a loving, caring person with all or most of the same values will fall on deaf ears. Who cares about your values when you're going to burn in Satan's dark inferno for all eternity?
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 22:12 |
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Cicero posted:Mormons actually believe that almost everyone goes to heaven. You just get the crappy version if you're a bad person, but it's still supposed to be better than life on Earth. Like I said, that's what they believe regarding the average non-Mormon. Even bad people only get a temporary punishment in the afterlife. But for people who were once faithful, then left the church of their own accord? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin#Mormonism posted:"All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy."[12]
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 22:22 |
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So what if you still believe in Jesus?
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 22:47 |
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Other people have done a better job laying things out than I could, but I'm curious: what was so awful about your mission trip? Why will you go apeshit if you were to see those people again? Also:I am the M00N posted:I choose my own god-damned fate. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, but I thought it was pretty funny.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 23:21 |
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I'm going to echo the sentiments posted by people that you will never convince them to be happy with your decision, and whether they're okay with it is not something you can really influence. If someone changes their religious beliefs, more likely than not it won't be for logical reasons, and it comes from within. I can definitely sympathize with how difficult it can be to feel that kind of disapproval from loved ones. I'm an ex-Catholic, and while my mom has been able to come to terms with it on her own and understands whether a person is good or not is what's important, my dad thinks I'm going to hell, which has definitely put a wedge in our relationship. You have to be true to yourself first and foremost, though, and continue being an excellent person. If they can see that, that's awesome. If they cannot, it's a reflection on them and not on you.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 23:36 |
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Another former member chiming in. Be happy in your own life, stop worrying about how others decide to feel. Leaving The Church (tm) was the best decision of my life. Enjoy.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 23:50 |
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CAustin posted:Like I said, that's what they believe regarding the average non-Mormon. Even bad people only get a temporary punishment in the afterlife. But for people who were once faithful, then left the church of their own accord? No - it's specifically taught that "sons of perdition" are only those who have certain knowledge (not just faith, or belief) of the truth of mormon doctrine, and then turn away from it - in other words, you have to have actually SEEN god, or jesus, or the holy ghost, blah blah blah. Like Satan did. Or Judas. Bad mormons just go to one of the two shittier heavens, depending on whether they were good people (but bad mormons) or bad people (and bad mormons). Another exmormon here. Your parents will never be ok with the fact that you're not mormon - they're conditioned to think that way. Eventually though, they will hopefully understand that you're happy, productive, and a good person even without mormonism. It took mine about 4-5 years to get to acceptance, and I know they still wish I was back in the church, even after 15 years. They'll never stop wishing that, but as long as they respect me, I am ok with that. Kalista fucked around with this message at Mar 20, 2013 around 00:29 |
| # ? Mar 20, 2013 00:25 |
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Kalista posted:No - it's specifically taught that "sons of perdition" are only those who have certain knowledge (not just faith, or belief) of the truth of mormon doctrine, and then turn away from it - in other words, you have to have actually SEEN god, or jesus, or the holy ghost, blah blah blah. Like Satan did. Or Judas. Bad mormons just go to one of the two shittier heavens, depending on whether they were good people (but bad mormons) or bad people (and bad mormons).
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 00:39 |
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Kalista posted:No - it's specifically taught that "sons of perdition" are only those who have certain knowledge (not just faith, or belief) of the truth of mormon doctrine, and then turn away from it - in other words, you have to have actually SEEN god, or jesus, or the holy ghost, blah blah blah. Like Satan did. Or Judas. Bad mormons just go to one of the two shittier heavens, depending on whether they were good people (but bad mormons) or bad people (and bad mormons). Oh, well that's good news. OP, just tell your parents that you're fine settling for the lovely heaven in case they're right. I mean it's still heaven, which I'm pretty sure is, by definition, nicer than earth, and earth isn't really so bad in the first place.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 00:43 |
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CAustin posted:Oh, well that's good news. OP, just tell your parents that you're fine settling for the lovely heaven in case they're right. I mean it's still heaven, which I'm pretty sure is, by definition, nicer than earth, and earth isn't really so bad in the first place.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 00:44 |
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Quixotic posted:This won't work at all, why are you even suggesting this? I don't know, man. I thought maybe I finally broke the Mormon system. For someone named Quixotic, you kind of have a bad radar for frivolous statements.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 00:53 |
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OP if you're an adult, your parents can't expect you to be in line with their spirtual expectations. It sounds like your parents are being passive-aggressive in their efforts to try to win you back into the fold. As long as they don't requrie you to attend services and you and them have no pressing conflicts, you just have to ride it out. And double-down on your efforts to move the hell out.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 01:19 |
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They're not depressed, they're disappointed. If they're pretty devout they'll never stop wanting you to go back but since they haven't rejected you yet you can be pretty sure they never will. Be respectful that they still hold strong beliefs and don't try to make them feel bad for staying in the church. Then be nice to them and don't talk about it too much, shrug and say you're not ready to go back yet if they ask you to, eventually you can assert that it's not a discussion you're interested in ever (when you're not reliant on them anymore maybe). Demonstrate that you're a good person. You'll be fine.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 02:11 |
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Myrmidongs posted:Them mormons are a real happy bunch. So much so that 1 in 5 women in Utah are on anti depressants. Eh, who cares? Women aren't people in any of the Christian religions.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 02:24 |
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I am the M00N posted:However, I feel that my parents are sad whenever I am around, and I respect them way too much to not care. How do I get them to be happy with my decision? You don't. In the same way you want to make choices about your life they get to make choices about their reactions to your decisions. I am the M00N posted:Or at least get over it? Short of them leaving too it is doubtful they will ever get over it completely. The hurt will fade a bit with time. I am the M00N posted:Moving out is currently impossible due to insufficient income, so that will not help. I would suggest trying to change this. You could all probably use some distance while this works itself out. CAustin posted:Oh, well that's good news. OP, just tell your parents that you're fine settling for the lovely heaven in case they're right. I mean it's still heaven, which I'm pretty sure is, by definition, nicer than earth, and earth isn't really so bad in the first place. Unfortunately this is small comfort. Those outside the highest heaven do not retain family relationships the same way those in the highest degree do. Also, there is still an LDS version of hell. It is just temporary. It is more likely they will take comfort in the teaching that if they live the gospel together their children will be redeemed to live with them even if their children have to go through hell to get there. I am the M00N posted:I believe that all people can judge good from bad themselves and that so long as they are good people and do what is generally considered to be right, they will be happy after death. And why does God get to decide who is right and wrong? Because he is perfect? Because he is more powerful? As someone who is LDS you do know the answers given for these questions right? I am the M00N posted:And if I am wrong, gently caress it, because I don't care what some supreme being says, I choose my own god-damned fate. That is actually the most central tenet of LDS theology. It could be argued it is equally important to the mission of Jesus.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 03:17 |
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I am the M00N posted:How do I get them to be happy with my decision? Or at least get over it? Unfortunately there just isn't much you can do here. As an adult you need to realize that you don't have to seek your parent's approval for your own life decisions. Your personal religious beliefs are yours alone to make, and no one can force you to believe in something you find to be not true. At the same time, there's no real magic way to make your parents happy that you're abandoning their faith. They'll probably get used to it over time though. Focus on yourself, work to get enough money so you can move out, and be happy knowing that you don't need external validation.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 04:43 |
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Mormons who watch Game of Thrones. Dang.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 04:54 |
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How big of a 'gently caress You' did you give them? There's a right way and a wrong way to emotionally-challenge authority.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 06:01 |
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I am the M00N posted:I do not need fancy underpants to remind me to do good I have never been a Mormon, and have never met one, so I think I need some elaboration on this.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 10:29 |
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He means temple garments, which I thought were only worn by missionaries and such.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 10:36 |
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Wait a few weeks, then convert to catholicism just because it would piss those drat goons right off.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 10:36 |
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Rexides posted:I have never been a Mormon, and have never met one, so I think I need some elaboration on this. Some Mormons wear ugly underclothes to remind them of their commitment to faith. I heard that they're uncomfortable and women have to wear their bras over them.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 10:38 |
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Hyzenth1ay posted:Eh, who cares? Women aren't people in any of the Christian religions. If we go by Galatians 3:28, God either doesn't care or can't actually tell the difference. Also he can't see color. I actually like to imagine that he's basically a cosmic Stephen Colbert.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 11:09 |
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I think this is just a part of life you have to learn to deal with. My parents are Anglican and they're always asking me why I don't go to church. Granted, I don't live with them. You may have to play along until you move out.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 11:56 |
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Lonely Virgil posted:Some Mormons wear ugly underclothes to remind them of their commitment to faith. I heard that they're uncomfortable and women have to wear their bras over them. They are not that uncomfortable. My only gripe about them is that they are cheaply made. I understand they want to keep the price down but still annoying.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 14:13 |
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Geniasis posted:If we go by Galatians 3:28, God either doesn't care or can't actually tell the difference. Whoa, whoa, whoa, buddy, this is the internet. If you're gonna talk about what the bible says about women and/or gays, you'd better be using the old testament (usually Leviticus, but any old passage will do if it says to kill the sodomites and wives who cheat on their husbands. Also, ignore anyone who points out that "sodomy" in the biblical sense was quite possibly surprise sex and not teh ghey, just like the sin of Onan wasn't masturbation). We can't let poo poo like this get in the way of mocking the "invisible sky wizard" people. This is the internet, man.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 14:23 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 14:17 |
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I am the M00N posted:And why does God get to decide who is right and wrong? Because he is perfect? Because he is more powerful? In context, "Yes, and that's how things generally work." Are you un-clear on how an all-powerful, all-knowing deity could have the right to decide what's right and wrong given that he/she/it could in fact 1)know if a thing is definitively right or wrong and 2)has the power to reward or penalize according to a person's adherence to his/her/its standard? That said, I have always found Mormonism to be a bit silly in areas (particularly those you and others have mentioned; and you're doing well (and normal) to question the beliefs of those who raised you.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2013 15:09 |
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