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No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

Hi!


BIOTRUTHS (truths about Bioshock Infinite) ONLY THREAD

If you care about experiencing this game fresh you should definitely immediately slam dunk this thread into the garbage can and fist pump until you've finished Ken Levine's newest epic. The no-spoiler thread is here. We ride together we die together, Booker Boys 4 Life.

Did you just finish this game? Consider looking at the FAQ at the bottom before you post!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHz_0D6JH58
It can only help if you listen to this over and over again on loop as you read and post. Mods please embed.



So this game will be out in a few days, and surprise surprise it's a Ken Levine game with an extremely spoilable plot twist that will probably ruin your enjoyment if you see it. Who could have seen this coming?

The console versions are floating around, along with various livestreams thereof, and in their wisdom the mods have mandated that we get any discussion of these out of the other thread. You can discuss these things, along with any and all other elements of the plot, in this thread. Esteemed gaming sites such as Reddit and the 'GAF are already beginning to roil about some sure-to-be controversial gameplay features, and I suppose you can discuss these here, in the bright light of day, without imposing any inadvertent upon innocent goons. My understanding is that the review embargo breaks tomorrow (Thursday) evening, so we will surely have a lot to talk about then. Of course once legitimate copies of the game are available you can and should also post your personal impressions and such.

I'm very curious about how this game will turn out, and I think I speak for everyone when I say I'm hoping for the best. It's been many years and many millions in the making, let's see if Ken Levine and his team have delivered!

FAQ

Q: What the gently caress happened in this game? Huh? What? Wait, what?
A: This is under dispute. Here are two interpretations, take them with a grain of salt. http://i.imgur.com/u6ZVn0D.png http://i.imgur.com/8X1CQZv.jpg (thanks forums poster bear is driving!). If these are not to your satisfaction, join the club.

Q: Did Comstock buy the baby before or after the baptism?
A: For some reason the debate on this question continues to rage. Peruse the thread to see enlightened goons offering supporting each. For what it's worth I am personally more convinced by the after argument, and most people seem to trend that way.

Q: What was the deal with Songbird?
A: Possibly created by Fink by studying future technology through a tear. Possible identities include another version of Booker or a little girl enamored with Elizabeth, but there's no hard evidence for either.

Q: Who killed the guy in the lighthouse?
A: but the Lutece twins are the most likely suspects. But perhaps that part of the game was just an illusion!

Q: Is there anywhere I can see the audio logs I missed?
A: Here is a text dump of them from the game files.

Q: Did any of my decisions change anything?
A: Throwing the ball at the announcer gets you an extra piece of gear later on. Elizabeth sometimes wears the opposite brooch from the one you picked when the dimension jumping gets really wacky. If you don't threaten the man at the ticketing booth he stabs you in the hand and Elizabeth bandages it, which persists for the rest of the game. If you don't kill Slate you will find him being tortured later. Otherwise no.

No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2013 around 22:50

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net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011



I seriously wish I could un-spoil this game for myself.

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


If that's really the ending, then I can't believe they tried that 'it'll be unlike anything you've ever experienced in a video game ending' line.

Orgone Accumulator
Jan 28, 2006

It's been a long time coming.

I'm trying really hard to get spoilered for this game but it isn't working. Is there anything out there beyond what came out in the other thread?

net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011



Orgone Accumulator posted:

I'm trying really hard to get spoilered for this game but it isn't working. Is there anything out there beyond what came out in the other thread?

The entire game.

Orgone Accumulator
Jan 28, 2006

It's been a long time coming.

Right, but, in a thing that I can just read? I don't want to have to watch a stream or anything. I'm bad at looking for this stuff I guess.

net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011



Orgone Accumulator posted:

Right, but, in a thing that I can just read? I don't want to have to watch a stream or anything. I'm bad at looking for this stuff I guess.

Not exactly something you can read, but the entire game in screenshots from start menu to end can be found on this Russian website.

Bland
Aug 31, 2008


Winner Of The TRP I dont actually remember the contest im pretty high right now here's your venkys tag




Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


Hahaha, it's the loving Dark Tower.

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

Hi!


Dan Didio posted:

Hahaha, it's the loving Dark Tower.

Imagine four balls on a cliff. Booker works the same way.

Viewtiful Jew
Apr 21, 2007
Mench'n-a-go-go-baby!

Please tell me it's like making a copy of a VHS tape or xeroxing a xerox and each time another Elizabeth pops up things get more disoriented.

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


Childe Roland to the city of Rapture came.

Did Bioshock 2 start with a man, a lighthouse and a city? I'm wondering if Irrational's entry 'fits'.

Yoya
Nov 6, 2009

I already bought the chicken


People who thought bioshock 1 was a brilliant masterpiece will still love the lovely story in infinite, right?

pengun101
Feb 14, 2012


So I have seen the ending, and i don't know how to feel, I kinda of figured they would do something like this but i kinda want to see how it fits with the whole game. The idea isn't too bad if there is more build up for it. But does that mean the events of bioshock never happened somehow?

Mouser..
Apr 1, 2010



I watched the ending because it's a thing I do and it doesn't ruin my enjoyment of a game as a whole. I don't think this is a game that you can be ruined on just by reading someone blabbing out a twist. The ending goes on for 15 minutes and really just solidified that I need to play through the whole game to understand it more. It's definitely not as cut and dry as the simple spoiler makes it out to be. If anything I'm more intrigued now.

EDIT:

Dan Didio posted:

Childe Roland to the city of Rapture came.

Did Bioshock 2 start with a man, a lighthouse and a city? I'm wondering if Irrational's entry 'fits'.

Bioshock 2 started with Delta escorting his Little Sister around Rapture collecting ADAM, then the player takes over with Delta being revived in a Vita-chamber.

Mouser.. fucked around with this message at Mar 20, 2013 around 23:13

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


pengun101 posted:

So I have seen the ending, and i don't know how to feel, I kinda of figured they would do something like this but i kinda want to see how it fits with the whole game. The idea isn't too bad if there is more build up for it. But does that mean the events of bioshock never happened somehow?

It seems to imply that the events of Bioshock were just another version of this cosmic order playing out in another world.

Fag Boy Jim
Oct 7, 2007

unban longavs


Yoya posted:

People who thought bioshock 1 was a brilliant masterpiece will still love the lovely story in infinite, right?

I don't know, will the gaming press suddenly and violently reverse their pre-determined "This is an important game, a game that matters" narrative?

ThePhenomenalBaby
May 3, 2011


I'm the game that matters.

It is funny that the ending seems so...dumb? I mean almost none of use have the full context but it seems pretty dumb.

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


People are going to love this game regardless, and I don't want to imply that I think the ending is bad without seeing all of it or anything, but that whole 'this ending will be so unique' narrative that the developers of Infinite and the press spat out is so hilariously false in light of this that I'm just kind of bummed out. It doesn't even seem like they tried for something 'new'.

Mouser..
Apr 1, 2010



Dan Didio posted:

People are going to love this game regardless, and I don't want to imply that I think the ending is bad without seeing all of it or anything, but that whole 'this ending will be so unique' narrative that the developers of Infinite and the press spat out is so hilariously false in light of this that I'm just kind of bummed out. It doesn't even seem like they tried for something 'new'.

For some reason my brain immediately correlated it to one of the bad endings from Silent Hill:Homecoming so that's how unique the premise seems to me.

Spite
Jul 27, 2001

Small chance of that...


So for all the talk about this being an unprecedented ending....it's a pretty obvious twist to make if you absolutely have to make a twist and your main character has time/dimensional travel powers.

I don't understand how it took them 4 months to come up with it, or why they'd claim it was like nothing in any game ever. If they really want to see mindfuckery they should try Pathologic.

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


I thought that whole 'one of our developers nearly quit because our game was so on point' was really gross too. I still don't know why that story became part of this game's prerelease marketing but it really turned me off all the story talk and stuff and now this on top of all that stuff just seems really loving lame. The more I look at the game, the more dissapointed I grow.

ThePhenomenalBaby
May 3, 2011


I've honestly been avoiding any and all plot based marketing/information up to this point because I didn't want to hype myself up for disappointment if I ended up getting this like with Bioshock.

I just hope the gameplay and 1999 mode are actually compelling and challenging. They might be able to pull that off.

3peat
May 6, 2010

chaos & destroy & loli


quote:

So, there is one man who one day gets the decision to be baptised or not. There are two possible outcomes here, either he accepts baptism and is called Comstock, or refuses it and is called Booker.

Later in his life, Booker finds himself with a baby, though when asked later in his life where the baby was from, he can't seem to remember.

A wealthy and aged Comstock appears before him, offers to buy the baby from him, which would absolve the Booker of a great debt. Because of this transaction, Booker develops fixation on absolution through chivalry.

The baby is Cromwell's, born after Booker and Cromwell emerge as selves from different timelines, so the baby is genetically Booker's as well. This is Elizabeth. She is born with time traveling abilities.

Through meddling by Elizabeth, Comstock and Booker are placed in infinite realities together, likely related to the paradoxical dynamic of having two identical men be rightful fathers to a multiverse sensitive daughter. The two find themselves at odds endlessly in an infinite amount of universes, competing for fatherhood of Elizabeth.

In the end, these multiverses are resolved as once, as Elizabeth pulls back the curtain, and reveals to a Booker who had just completed his journey that the only way to escape this cycle of endless war is to sacrifice himself at the moment of baptism, the exact moment where he is no longer the man he was before the baptism, but is not yet one of the two men he will eventually become.

Ken "The Genius" Levine, you beautiful bastard, you've done it again!

Fag Boy Jim
Oct 7, 2007

unban longavs


All of that, by the way, is clumsily dumped on the player in a 15-minute scripted sequence where Elizabeth turns into Jane Exposition.

The only cool part was going back to Rapture for like, two minutes, because it reminded me of the bit in System Shock 2 where you go back to Citadel.

Spite
Jul 27, 2001

Small chance of that...


I think many, many game companies would benefit from editors outside the project that could check in from time and time and say "Yeah, about that - it seems pretty stupid to me."

I doubt that will happen for a myriad of reasons, but game development tends to be very insular and groupthinky that a lot of stupid poo poo ends up in products.

I also get the feeling that people are falling over themselves to praise Levine a bit more than he's earned. I mean, Bioshock was good and all and the twist was interesting in a visceral sense, but the game falls apart afterward and the game is too chicken to really render a judgement on objectivism or the philosophies in Rapture. And it really doesn't do anything with what the twist presents: Bioshock 1 spoiler if anyone still hasn't played it: You are doing all these linear things because you are hypnotized! See, it's a commentary on all games!

And I think it would be really hard to implement this twist well without making it feel like "whelp, I just did a bunch of stuff for nothing" - not to render final judgement, but I'm not too hopeful.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That summary doesn't sound too bad. Fits with the quantum mechanics theme as understood by a lit major theme they seem to be going with.
Still seems like there's a lot of holes though - why would Elizabeth wait until the end? ~~~Hero's journey~~~ bullshit? Also an exposition dump, really?

Spite fucked around with this message at Mar 20, 2013 around 23:40

CJ
Jul 2, 2007

Here's a less utterly loathsome avatar you piece of shit.

Why does Booker have the baby and why does Comstock want it? How does Comstock find out about other dimensions so he can go and get a baby from another dimension?

Fag Boy Jim
Oct 7, 2007

unban longavs


Spite posted:

And I think it would be really hard to implement this twist well without making it feel like "whelp, I just did a bunch of stuff for nothing" - not to render final judgement, but I'm not too hopeful.

I mean, I was watching it, so I'm one level removed, but this is exactly what the end of the game felt like.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


3peat posted:

Ken "The Genius" Levine, you beautiful bastard, you've done it again!

I like this. The only problem is that it's dumped on you in a 15 minute cutscene at the end, but whatever. I guess that explains the title as well.

Quinch
Oct 21, 2008



Fag Boy Jim posted:

All of that, by the way, is clumsily dumped on the player in a 15-minute scripted sequence where Elizabeth turns into Jane Exposition.

The only cool part was going back to Rapture for like, two minutes, because it reminded me of the bit in System Shock 2 where you go back to Citadel.

Have you played it or watched it all the way through? If it does just all come out of nowhere then it does seem lovely, but there must be some leadup of some kind, surely.

For instance, I might have missed it but who are the guy and girl who took the girl through the wall / are rowing the boat at the start? Is the bloke Comstock?

Edit I could see it working if they gave some background to why the same thing happens in each universe, or why hes suddenly ok with letting himself get killed because that did seem to come out of nowhere, or maybe i'm just dumb and didn't get it.

Quinch fucked around with this message at Mar 20, 2013 around 23:56

doomisland
Oct 5, 2004



Also what is Songbird?

And the thing it destroys at the end?

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


So do they put any romantic subtext between Booker and Elizabeth? 'Cause that's pretty creepy if it turns out Booker is her father, and Elizabeth knew.

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011


CJ posted:

Why does Booker have the baby and why does Comstock want it? How does Comstock find out about other dimensions so he can go and get a baby from another dimension?

Comstock finds out about other dimensions via the Lutece twins, who pretty much invented all these dimensional travelling shenanigans. Well, they each did in separate dimensions, then communicated through them until Lutece from the universe we play in brings over her brother from the other dimensions. Oh and eventually Comstock kills them but they don't die, instead getting spread out over limitless possibilities, losing their personality but gaining the ability to sort of do crazy time bullshit and teleportation. It's actually due to the Lutece brother that Booker gets to Columbia at all, though it took hundreds of tries until everything got setup just right for the Elizabeth-Becomes-Sort-Of-God finale.

Hi, I'm a guy who cannot resist watching streams of full games.

EDIT: In regards to the ending, people on certain places on the internet are starting to joke that any game featuring both a man and a lighthouse has now been retconned out of existence due to Bioshock Infinite, since Alan Wake is clearly just Booker from dimension 384725 or something.

Spite
Jul 27, 2001

Small chance of that...


It also really changes the dynamic if Elizabeth knew all this all along, because she's then using him all along. Which is kind of odd considering they've been playing up the "these two learn to trust each other" angle for the entire ad campaign. I suppose it could work if she doesn't realize it until the end.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010


What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Any links handy to the ending? I couldn't find anything on Youtube, and I'm guessing it won't be archived on Twitch since it's against their ToS.

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011


Spite posted:

It also really changes the dynamic if Elizabeth knew all this all along, because she's then using him all along. Which is kind of odd considering they've been playing up the "these two learn to trust each other" angle for the entire ad campaign. I suppose it could work if she doesn't realize it until the end.

She doesn't know any of it because her dimensional powers are being dampened by a big-rear end machine. The last gameplay segment is you two destroying it, which INSTANTLY makes Elizabeth go into ALL KNOWING INTERDIMENSIONAL GODHEAD mode.

CJ
Jul 2, 2007

Here's a less utterly loathsome avatar you piece of shit.

Rinkles posted:

Any links handy to the ending? I couldn't find anything on Youtube, and I'm guessing it won't be archived on Twitch since it's against their ToS.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy...xy#.UUo34Vftm3M

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010


What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Dan Didio posted:

If that's really the ending, then I can't believe they tried that 'it'll be unlike anything you've ever experienced in a video game ending' line.

They may have been referring more to how it plays out than to the twist itself, though I don't know if that's that much more a valid statement. Regardless of the content, I think it's a pretty well directed sequence.

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


Rinkles posted:

They may have been referring more to how it plays out than to the twist itself, though I don't know if that's that much more a valid statement.

It's not and that's kind of what gets me. Regardless of who well it is or isn't executed, a lot more was promised. Nothing new, but still dissapointing nonetheless.

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GenoCanSing
Mar 2, 2004



Ehh, I enjoyed Bioshock more the second time through, knowing the twists. What sold me on both Bioshocks was the environment, and I think Columbia will be just as fun to explore.

However, on the leaked ending, it showed the final boss as being from the vox. I'm presuming that if you side with them, the final boss might be on the other side. I'm pretty hopeful that there will be multiple endings.

I will say that the whole 'infinite' ending, with ALL THESE STARS/DOORS/LIGHTHOUSES might have been better saved for, say, the fifth or so game in the series. Where could they write it from here?

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