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If that's really the ending, then I can't believe they tried that 'it'll be unlike anything you've ever experienced in a video game ending' line.
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Mar 20, 2013 23:21
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| # ¿ Apr 23, 2024 17:53 |
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Hahaha, it's the loving Dark Tower.
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Mar 20, 2013 23:37
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Childe Roland to the city of Rapture came. Did Bioshock 2 start with a man, a lighthouse and a city? I'm wondering if Irrational's entry 'fits'.
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Mar 20, 2013 23:41
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pengun101 posted:So I have seen the ending, and i don't know how to feel, I kinda of figured they would do something like this but i kinda want to see how it fits with the whole game. The idea isn't too bad if there is more build up for it. But does that mean the events of bioshock never happened somehow? It seems to imply that the events of Bioshock were just another version of this cosmic order playing out in another world.
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Mar 21, 2013 00:11
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People are going to love this game regardless, and I don't want to imply that I think the ending is bad without seeing all of it or anything, but that whole 'this ending will be so unique' narrative that the developers of Infinite and the press spat out is so hilariously false in light of this that I'm just kind of bummed out. It doesn't even seem like they tried for something 'new'.
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Mar 21, 2013 00:15
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I thought that whole 'one of our developers nearly quit because our game was so on point' was really gross too. I still don't know why that story became part of this game's prerelease marketing but it really turned me off all the story talk and stuff and now this on top of all that stuff just seems really loving lame. The more I look at the game, the more dissapointed I grow.
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Mar 21, 2013 00:23
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Rinkles posted:They may have been referring more to how it plays out than to the twist itself, though I don't know if that's that much more a valid statement. It's not and that's kind of what gets me. Regardless of who well it is or isn't executed, a lot more was promised. Nothing new, but still dissapointing nonetheless.
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Mar 21, 2013 02:24
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Rinkles posted:I like Levine and most of his games I've been exposed to, but he has a tendency to exaggerate when interacting with the press. I understand when Molyneux or Levine exaggerate and then people go, "Well, you should know by now not to trust these people," but at the same time, that's completely unacceptable. I mean, obviously this is different from Molyneux's straight up lies, but I just feel let down by the narrative that formed around this game.
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Mar 21, 2013 02:43
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Internet Kraken posted:I don't get how killing one Brooker does anything about all the other Brookers/Comstocks that exist in the hundreds of different worlds the game suggest exists. What exactly does drowning him accomplish? They take him back to a certain point in the criss-crossing timelines where he hasn't yet become either of the potential men he can be. Thus killing him at that point unravels all the poo poo that happened as a result. I think drowning him in that glade/area is just how they chose to do it, because of it's significance with the whole baptizing the child/becoming Comstock/remaining Booker connection.
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Mar 21, 2013 08:19
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Rapture/Jack/Andrew Ryan are just another way the events played out.
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Mar 21, 2013 09:28
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The Lutece twins do it, yeah.
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Mar 22, 2013 00:54
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I don't know if he specifically goes through a rift, but the circumstances of him coming to Columbia are because of the Lutece twins working some magic, I'm pretty sure.
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Mar 22, 2013 01:03
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Booker does sell his daughter before he 'becomes' or doesn't become Comstock. I thought that was pretty clear?
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Mar 22, 2013 15:20
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Spite posted:Thinking about it, it seems like the sale must happen after the baptism, which kind of breaks the ending for me. This, my darling, is the Comstock Clock.
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Mar 25, 2013 02:43
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SamBishop posted:The start of this thread pissed me off with all the eye-rolling "I watched a stream and the end is dumb" talk, but I understand that not everyone is going to go through the whole game, even if they should, I understand where you're coming from, but there are issues with the ending that are not beholden to any greater sensation that holding the controller in your hand could provide. I had the game spoiled for me by someone, and yes I watched a playthrough of the game through a stream, but I don't think that in any way mitigates or lessens a chief criticism I have which is that the ending of the game largely boils down to a fifteen minute long exposition dump.
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Mar 26, 2013 09:02
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Why experience it passively? I was pretty on the fence about the game as it was and then I had it spoilt for me and was curious about specific aspects of it. All I've really said in this thread is that I thought the ending was dumb when I first had the spoiler revealed for me by some guy in the other thread not using tags and that I think the spasm of exposition at the end of the game is a poor choice; is there some sort of element of the ending that can't be gleaned from a video of it that remedies that complaint? I find that very, very hard to believe. Other people have had issues with the logistics and plot holes, etc. etc. and stuff like that which doesn't interest me that much, but I'm not seeing why all of the criticism was a problem for you, given it's nature. I certainly don't think watching a stream is a valid position to critique the whole game from and I don't think anyone here is doing that, unless I've misssed or forgotten some egregious posts, but I do think there's very genuine flaws which stood out to me in the stream that I saw that can't be mitigated by some element of activity, given the way it's presented and what the flaws are. Without having got to that part of the game myself, I can't really see anything of that specific stretch of the ending which could possibly remedy the fact that it is just a prolonged, passive exposition dump by being actively played. EDIT: I don't think you should apologize. 'Well, you haven't actually played the game yet...' is a perfectly acceptable response to criticism, I suppose really I'm just wondering if you felt there was anything to that specific very, very end sequence which positively affected your opinion of it and wouldn't be possible to glean from a video or stream or something like that.
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Mar 26, 2013 09:33
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I think that's all perfectly fine, and if your concerns are about people extrapolating or because you want to talk about the breadth of the game as an entirety then I think being disheartened (I guess) at some of the conversation in this thread is perfectly fair. I'm just mostly interested in a few specific moments of the entirety that I've had spoiled and how that difference helps or hinders them, really. I think kind of where I got lost a bit is because from what I saw, that particular ending piece; those last ten or fifteen minutes or so, seemed really passive and you described stream-watching as a passive activity. I'm sure those segments are probably improved on a variety of levels by having them come as the culmination of a much-broader game, I just wasn't really sure if my very specific criticism of that ending would really be influenced by playing it as opposed to watching it. I'm not stoked that a guy spoiled it for me either, but I get the impression I'll probably enjoy the story on it's own merits, or not enjoy it whichever the case may be, by playing through it myself.
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Mar 26, 2013 10:10
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Winky posted:Yeah, I'm not sure if you followed the ending CJacobs but Columbia and Rapture are actually parallel-universe versions of each other. This doesn't address his complaint, though.
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Mar 27, 2013 07:36
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duralict posted:back from the New York future, That's the one starring Eric Stoltz, right? gently caress This Puzzle posted:Nope. Those are other universes. At different points in time.
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Mar 28, 2013 23:51
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Travelling to a different time isn't time travel?
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Mar 28, 2013 23:53
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Regardless of what they've done, I can't see the Luteces, as depicted in game, murdering a man in that fashion. The dead guy in the lighthouse, I mean.
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Mar 29, 2013 09:41
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Cheston posted:I took that as Booker filling in memories. ...of what?
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Mar 29, 2013 10:08
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Cheston posted:Well, when he originally goes to Columbia, he's been moved to a different dimension by the Luteces. According to the game's logic (or at least, the Lutece's observations), that means that his mind will adapt / memories will change to maintain a level of consistency. His mind has replaced the actual meaning of "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt" to be a direct threat from organized crime. Seeing threatening notes and a tortured body (things well within Booker's imagination) reenforces his own belief in that false meaning. The game goes to pretty great lengths with the nosebleeds, etc. etc. to show that Booker isn't looking back on this and filling in the blanks. We're playing as Booker, in the moment, if that makes sense. I don't think it's a manufactured memory, or if it is, that information was conveyed incredibly poorly.
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Mar 29, 2013 10:23
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Ostiosis posted:Booker was a racist long before he was baptized, hence Wounded Knee. Booker was pressured into his acts there, it's not like he hated or despised or even thought less of any of his victims at Wounded Knee, the other members of the seventh pushed him to do it. It doesn't excuse him, but saying he's a racist and citing Wounded Knee is pretty shaky. Especially given that he was wracked with guilt over it until he either becomes Comstock or goes on living with that guilt. gently caress This Puzzle posted:And the suppression of the Boxers. The Supression of the Boxers comes after he becomes Comstock and founds Columbia. Didja' play with the sound off or summin'? Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 01:00
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ImpAtom posted:They pushed him into it by claiming he had Indian Blood. That's, uh, pretty racist. He didn't do it because of that, though, he did it because of the pressure of being ostracized. There's a difference between Booker killing Indians because he views them as inferior or holds a racist belief against them and Booker killing them because everyone else holds racist beliefs and will ostracize him if he doesn't 'prove' himself. The only reason he's pressured into doing it is because he was reluctant at first.
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Mar 30, 2013 01:12
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Willias posted:Hadn't heard of that theory until just now. Thinking on it: Isn't the first voxophone by that little girl next to a doll of the songbird? Yeah, but a lot of kids play with Songbird dolls in that section of the game.
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Mar 30, 2013 01:14
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Ostiosis posted:I didn't say he was a slave owner, I didn't say he wasn't guilty, I said he was a racist because he committed genocide against an ethnic group. I'm really not interested in having a debate about what exactly constitutes racism so I'll just say that I think that the context and the conditions surrounding the horrific acts Booker committed at Wounded Knee are positioned deliberately in a way that is meant to contrast with Comstock, a man who willingly, knowingly holds racist beleifs, and thus I think it's over-simplifying to declare him a racist because of them.
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Mar 30, 2013 01:25
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Lotish posted:
Time tumors.
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Mar 30, 2013 01:27
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Lotish posted:Yeah, the way I see it, Comstock is trying to justify his racist past by saying it must be just and divinely ordained, while Booker just hates himself for being that kind of bastard. During the baptism he either has the vision, or comes to the epiphany, that he is divine and righteous by pre-ordained right, therefore, everything he has done up to this point must be divine and righteous. It's just a twisted coping mechanism. Booker got drunk and gambled. Comstock found religion and got time tumors. TomWaitsForNoMan posted:They went back in time to before the baptism, Didn't someone earlier claim that there was no time-travel in the game? I'd be curious to see how he describes this event without travelling through time involved. (Also interesting because Rosalind Lutece, the authority on this stuff, describes Elizabeth as having power over time and space) TomWaitsForNoMan posted:it's all the Elizabeths from all the possible timelines Bioshock: Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 01:29
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RatHat posted:This is pretty good. The only problem I have with it is I don't think Booker knew who Comstock was when he offered to take the baby. When Robert takes the baby, he says 'Thank you, Mr. Comstock washes away your debt.'
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Mar 30, 2013 04:24
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RatHat posted:I mean he didn't know Comstock was an alternate reality version of himself. Ah, yeah, no, he doesn't.
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Mar 30, 2013 04:30
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His memory's conveniently borked up by space magic.
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Mar 30, 2013 09:35
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You can sneak past the Boys of Silence, and no, there's no down-side to using Tears, that was an earlier version of the game.
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Mar 30, 2013 10:34
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One of the more interesting little tidbits that turned up during the length of the game was that Lutece initially refused to help Comstock secure another heir, which led to Lady Comstock accusing Rosalind Lutece of sleeping with Comstock himself. Makes me wonder what changed that the Lutece's helped Comstock find another child and why Rosalind refused in the first place.
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Mar 30, 2013 11:35
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Republican Vampire posted:Where did that come up? The only log where Lady Comstock accuses Rosalind of sleeping with the Prophet that I found was the one where she's convinced Elizabeth is Rosalind's child and refused to believe that Elizabeth was procured through Rosalind's "contraption" The one about Rosalind refusing to help Comstock at first? It's before the one you're talking about there. It's a voxophone of Comstock himself and he's mad as gently caress about Lady Comstock not becoming pregnant ("I've done everything a man must do!") and goes on to mention that it's twice as bad because Rosalind refuses to use her science to help him. EDIT: Oh, I only meant 'led to' in the sense that it followed in that chain of events, I didn't mean it caused it.
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Mar 30, 2013 11:46
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Hm, maybe. I forget how the dates line up regarding Robert's arrival and Comstock's anget at being unable to concieve. It would have to be pretty tight for Robert not to be around, I guess, but I got the impression that Rosalind was alone at that point. As for Robert being more pro-active in meddling, I'm pretty sure that at one point Rosalind points out that the only reason she's even helping out Booker and Elizabeth is because Robert guilt-tripped her into fixing things. Or at least, demanded that she set things right or he'd leave. Something along those lines. I definitely was left with the impression that Rosalind was the more amoral twin. Those two were easily my favourite part of the game. The bit where they're pitching baseballs across the tram-line was one of the few bits I actually laughed at.
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Mar 30, 2013 11:55
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Yeah, I agree to an extent. As for the morality thing, no, I'm not convinced that either of them are good people or anything, but that Robert's motivations for meddling seem more...optimistic, I suppose, than Rosalind who considers all just another facet of an experiment, it seems. There's a Viewmaster or whatever the gently caress those silent films are called that tells you the exact time Robert came to Columbia, or at least the year, but I can't remember where it was, around about the same place that the voxophones I mentioned were, I'm pretty sure.
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Mar 30, 2013 12:14
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Starhawk64 posted:Not sure if these belongs in this thread or the main one, but I've always wondered why the developers decided to take 80s music and 1900sify them. For that matter, why have Columbia attack New York in 1984? It just could be because 80s Earth was the "closest" parallel universe Columbia had access to. Not all of the out of time music is from the 80's.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:56
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Mindblast posted:Sorry if this was already asked/answered, but when did Booker get flung into the future where the asylum was frozen? Was it when Songbird knocked him into that tower? After that, when he passes through the fog heading into the tower.
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Mar 31, 2013 12:40
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| # ¿ Apr 23, 2024 17:53 |
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But with coins she always flicks it.
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Apr 1, 2013 07:57
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