Dan Didio posted:

Hahaha, it's the loving Dark Tower.

CJacobs posted:

My main theory was that Elizabeth could only take Booker as far as her own existence. As in, taking Booker back to when she was a baby was the extent of it and they could go no further just because she didn't exist before that. But that would only sort-of-kind-of make sense... which I suppose would fit well with the ending as is!

If there is a world created for every variation of what happens after either choice, then why does going back to the moment before it happened in one world stop it from happening in other worlds? It just doesn't quite make sense to me that there are hundreds of hundreds of worlds that just suddenly exist, spanning off of this one choice of Booker becoming Comstock or not. That would further imply that they went back to the first time it happened in the first world where it happened, which would not work because killing the Booker that went through the game would not kill the Booker that became Comstock or didn't, because they aren't the same person!

What I guess I'm saying here is that her drowning 'you', the player's Booker, does not make sense because you aren't the same Booker as the one that made the choice. The majority of the reason it doesn't make sense is because the ending takes place from the first person when Booker should be the one watching it from the outside perspective.

Internet Kraken posted:

It seems like there are at least 4 big twists they dump on you in the last 4 minutes;

-That the events of the story unfold slightly altered in a thousand different dimensions
-Booker has been pulled from one dimension to another
-Elizabeth is Booker's daughter
-Booker is Comstock

It's a lot to suddenly learn and I don't know how well any of this is foreshadowed, if at all. If not then it would probably wokr better if you learned some of these twists earlier on rather than right at the very end.

Meme Emulator posted:

I dont know if youve ever played Final Fantasy 13, but im sure youve heard the "Long Hallway" gossip. Basically, the first 11 chapters of the game really are a long hallway. Unlike modern FPS design (which is also a long hallway) FFXIII had a minimap, so it really pointed out the fact that you were just running in a single direction, constantly.

Chapter 12 had you land on the planet your home moon circles and instantly, the game opens up. Instead of being a long hallway, your minimap is showing a vast plain with lots of places to explore. You get a serious feeling of exhiliration, after 30 hours of being lead by the nose, you are finally free to do things your own way.

Lets look at Bioshock, the narrative is completly geared towards the feeling you get in FFXIII. Even if you dont know it, youre being lead around by the nose, and running down the cooridoors your told to run down. After you meet Ryan, you find out the truth about your situation, but after killing him and leaving Hephasteus, all that happens is you are given a second talking head in the form of Dr Tenenbaum to take orders from.

They make a huge deal about how you are on a leash but after the climax, you are just strung along by another master. If Bioshock had dropped you in Rapture as your own man, free to roam around and do as you pleased following your confrontation with Ryan, it would have been amazing. That feeling I felt when playing FFXIII would have been amplified because the narrative of the story went along with your sudden unleashing. A complete waste. It wouldnt be such a big deal if people didnt laud the Andrew Ryan reveal as being so amazing though.

An almost universally hated game like FFXIII made me feel what Ken Levine was going for way more than his own game did.

anti_strunt posted:

~twists~ are the drat jump scares of storytelling, in that they are for children

So seriously, all that talk of racism and the myth of american exceptionalism was just so much window dressing for a story about dads, or even worse just some dumb drat time travel paradox?

CJacobs posted:

I am not the least bit sorry for what I have done.

DreamShipWrecked posted:

Out of curiosity, do any of the "choices" made in BS:I actually change anything significant? Or is Levine just talking out of his rear end again?

I mean, you don't throw the ball at the couple, they give you an item later. Woo.

I know this game is about loops and inevitability, but it seems like one of the things that got cut out was any sense of player choice, which is kind of *a big deal*.

kuddles posted:

Okay, who sent Booker the telegram at the beginning of the game saying not to pick #77? I can only guess it's the Lutece siblings, but if they supposedly know the outcome before it happens, why send that message other than to mess with him?

Dreylad posted:

Although I'm pretty much endlessly amused by the idea that this game ripped off the Zybourne Clock. Truly, a masterpiece that deserves its own AAA publishing deal.

Nihnoz posted:

Bruceski posted:

The first image (and thread title) are terrible. They assume a time loop where Booker goes through Columbia and then becomes Comstock at the end. Booker and Comstock are the same person in different dimensions, not at different times, and while there are some tears to different times where people receive information, the only actual time-travel is at Comstock House (so Elizabeth can cheat Booker into being in the right place with the right information to free her) and at the end (to prune the Comstock branch of the dimensional tree entirely).

MrAristocrates posted:

That stuff wasn't scrapped at the last minute. That demo is incredibly ambitious, and likely not working off actual AI but a mockup. That entire sequence is, in essence, a cutscene.

Winky posted:

I'm sure whatever the reasons are, though, it would be fascinating. I know that the guys I talked to mentioned there being a Kotaku article about some of their setbacks? I wasn't able to find it.

Basic Chunnel posted:

It should also be pointed out that in one of Battleship Bay's maintenance areas an Irish worker says "the whole thing's rigged. All I wanted was fair pay for honest work", which strongly implies that the beach structure has been sabotaged or perhaps rigged to explode. Given how the beach is used nearly exclusively by civilians and their families, it's hard to square that with a version of Daisy who sweats through the night at the thought of children dying for her cause.

Basic Chunnel posted:

I never thought about it that way! Perhaps when Daisy says that Columbia will soon "see darkness" she means the Vox is going to impose lamp usage restrictions, or maybe she's using "darkness" to refer to black people, and her new egalitarian society will have Columbia finally recognizing the efforts and achievements of its black citizens. I certainly have no basis to assume she wishes harm upon anyone

Basic Chunnel posted:

I've got about as much basis for assuming that the Vox, who in the first universe are apparently irregulars / insurgents, are involved in industrial sabotage, as anyone has for assuming that Daisy's end was a cheap last-minute equivocation. People are trying to pass off their unhappiness at a (heavily telegraphed, with numerous precedents) heel turn into a weakness of narrative where one doesn't exist

I don't know why folks don't just go all ME3 thread and construct "headcanons" in which Daisy is a conquering paragon of justice

Winky posted:

We should maybe make an FAQ or something.

Blue Raider posted:

Here's two for ya:

Q: Who killed the guy in the lighthouse? A: There's no definite answer, but the only plausible suspects are the Lutece's.
Q: Who/what is Songbird? A: A man/machine hybrid tasked with guarding Elizabeth. Possibly created by Fink by studying future technology through a tear. Possible identities include another version of Booker or a little girl enamoured with Elizabeth, but there's little supporting evidence of either.

Heresiarch posted:

This needs to go in the OP, I think.

Nickname Pending posted:

I've been wondering: If Columbia hates Lincoln, why did they make a motorized patriot of him?

VJeff posted:

In an interview, Ken Levine said "We chose quality over quantity." when talking about the game's length, which is perceived as overly short (which normally I wouldn't care about but when you're charging , it's up there).

Ken, I got news for you. You chose neither.

bobjr posted:

I don't understand BaS2, and I'm not even going to try to. The gameplay was fun if broken, but god drat I'd hate to see the writing process for this one.

LaughMyselfTo posted:

Wait a minute, why the gently caress is Yi Suchong in the department store with everyone else? Ryan wasn't trying to punish him for anything, was he?

Sithsaber posted:

Are there any good infinite mods?