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Elth posted:You know, at first I thought you were vastly over exaggerating how terrible the game had become, though I hadn't played since around the January patch. Believe me, I loving wish I was exaggerating. I wish I was wrong and that I'd just been imagining everything that changed because the game was so goddamn fun before the last two patches. It was easily my favorite multiplayer game at the time, if not one of my favorites ever. Which is just why I was so loving angry and bitter when they destroyed the balance without fixing any of the bugs. I do feel that, fortunately, the most recent patch made things just a bit better. I'm still getting killed by swings that are nowhere near me, or hit by dudes looking the opposite direction of me, and all that poo poo. However, MAA feels a bit better. The weapon swings feel a bit more natural and less retardedly sluggish since the most recent patch. Of course, Vanguard is still the trumps-all-else class. The only counter to vanguards is a fantastic archer, since vanguards have no shield. And, since most archers are played by "B-b-but my kill death ratio!" pubbies, vanguard hordes are basically the best tactic in the game. But it isn't as bad as it used to me. At least by a bit. Also, have you guys ever played in any of the servers that have FF turned off? Holy gently caress, that is probably the shittiest way to play this game. It's like normal a regular game of vanguards running at each other and spinning their swords, except they never team kill themselves to thin their numbers and instead just become a big mob of blade whirlwinds. Then they complain when an MAA throws a firepot into their midst and kills most of them... (spoiler alert, I am the MAA)
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Apr 5, 2013 00:30
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Slappy Moose posted:Believe me, I loving wish I was exaggerating. I wish I was wrong and that I'd just been imagining everything that changed because the game was so goddamn fun before the last two patches. It was easily my favorite multiplayer game at the time, if not one of my favorites ever. Which is just why I was so loving angry and bitter when they destroyed the balance without fixing any of the bugs. The thing I've noticed is that the whiniest players tend to be vanguards. Usually "archers should be removed" or "the MAA dodge is OP" when I see people whining about archers I'll switch to the light bow for more ammo and faster firing speed and try to single them out to further enrage them.
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Apr 5, 2013 03:16
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I only started playing this a month ago so I thought the game was always that weird but I'm glad it's not just me.
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Apr 5, 2013 03:26
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I played the free weekend way back and finally got around to buying it but yeah, something feels off now since then and now. It might've been because I was playing a Vanguard then, but I still mostly play Vanguard now (not really knowing it was OP as poo poo though, or whatever) and it feels weird. And a lot of attacks getting past a shield as a knight, even with my shield up and they are swinging towards it. Parrying feels off to me too. Not sure what, since I didn't keep up with patch notes. Might it have something to do with being able to alt-swing/alt-overhead (what does that even do since you come at them from the same direction 99% of the time?)
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Apr 5, 2013 08:13
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For a couple days I saw no servers, figuring the server browser was hosed and I didn't play. Then I tried looking at my server filters and it turns out the patch defaulted them. Okay, that was dumb on my part, but it's weird that they changed the default server filter to be Third Person Only servers, of which there are none. So that's why no servers were showing up, I thought. That would be fine, but the problem is that it keeps reverting back to that goddamn server filter no matter how many times I click Save/Apply filter. Is there a way around this? It irritates me more than it should that I have to change my server filters if I want to see a single server every time I start the game.
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Apr 5, 2013 08:25
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I've been playing this game for a month now and following the thread since before the transition, I didn't play before the aforementioned nerf but I really don't feel Vanguards are OP, if anything feels really ridiculous in this game it's how hard it is to parry daggers and broadswords, an MAA or an archer can just grind you with 7-8 hits that all go around your parry for some reason. Tiny weapons shouldn't be as effective at parrying if they can so easily get around the opponent's parries, that's my opinion. I really don't understand what advantage vanguards have over knights, the sprinting attack is crap and I notice most players intentionally stop sprinting before they attack cause they know it's bait for a parry combo.
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Apr 5, 2013 08:51
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All of their weapons have longer range than most other classes', high damage too. The Zweihanders slash has nearly 360 degrees reach for example, and they are speedy enough to dance around knights. If you really want to see "annoying as poo poo" vanguard play, use the third spear and continuously use the overhead attack that performs an underhanded stabbing attack. It has huge reach and can twoshot anyone, people get mad as hell about it. If you play a bit defensively and keep at range you can poke everyone to death forever.
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Apr 5, 2013 09:37
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dog nougat posted:The thing I've noticed is that the whiniest players tend to be vanguards. Usually "archers should be removed" or "the MAA dodge is OP" emanresu tnuocca posted:I really don't feel Vanguards are OP, if anything feels really ridiculous in this game it's how hard it is to parry daggers and broadswords, an MAA or an archer can just grind you with 7-8 hits that all go around your parry for some reason. emanresu tnuocca posted:Tiny weapons shouldn't be as effective at parrying if they can so easily get around the opponent's parries, that's my opinion. emanresu tnuocca posted:I really don't understand what advantage vanguards have over knights, the sprinting attack is crap and I notice most players intentionally stop sprinting before they attack cause they know it's bait for a parry combo.
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Apr 5, 2013 10:08
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Slappy Moose posted:Yes, 7-8 hits. Do you know how long it takes to get 7-8 hits on someone without being parried, running out of stamina, or having someone else come in an interrupt you? A long loving time. Meanwhile, vanguards can kill MAAs and archers in 1 or 2 hits. And they can kill other vanguards in 2-3 hits. As a MAA with the second Axe (Combat Axe I think?) I kill vanguards in 2 or 3 hits. It's not particularly hard to do, unless the enemy vanguard is good at keeping you out of range.
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Apr 5, 2013 11:13
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The starting mace kills Vanguards in 2 horizontal slashes, which is pretty useful, but more often than not you'll die to the horseshit associated with vanguards as a whole so it's effectiveness gets hit pretty hard. Seriously, half the time I'll queue up an attack at the same time as another guy, but his spear or halberd will beat me out, even if it is an overhead.
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Apr 5, 2013 12:05
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Man, what kind of servers are you guys playing on that you can just go vanguard and helicopter all day long? It's like a bizarre reverse official forums in here. Seriously, the average vanguard is easier to kill than MAAs are, since they're only slightly faster than knights, can't dodge, and die in two hits if you use the right attacks. Don't just take it from me though, have some stats: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=1 Notice how the vanguard's killing potential is only roughly on par with knights. True, a few of them have some pretty good one-hit-kill headshot potential on Archers and MAA's, but those attacks are so slow that it'll only really work on an unaware or inexperienced player. (Although lookdown overheads with the bardiche are kinda bullshit, I give you that) For those having trouble closing in on vanguards, keep moving as you parry them. You'll keep most of your momentum and be right up in their faces, completely negating their reach advantage. As a MAA, I can easily deal with most vanguards when using the Dane Axe. (add a heater shield if you're not so sure of your parries) You only need one overhead headshot and a follow-up to kill them and the Dane Axe's reach makes that pretty easy. A simple overhead into dodge -> feint (or not, depends on the opponent) -> overhead finishes them off quick and easy. v Look at the sheet I posted. The zweihander can definitely one-hit kill archers with overheads, though you require a headshot for MAA's. And yeah, it's always been like that. Exodee fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 14:30
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I play vanguard and knight the most since I like big swords and armor, and I routinely get killed by good MAA's using either an axe or a mace. Also like I posted above earlier, you could one shot archers with the zweihander before the most recent patch, and I'm not even sure you need a headshot to do it. It has to be an overhead though.
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Apr 5, 2013 14:41
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Exodee posted:Man, what kind of servers are you guys playing on that you can just go vanguard and helicopter all day long? It's like a bizarre reverse official forums in here. I don't know why you posted all that, we know that every class can kill and be killed. Doesn't change the fact that vanguards can be really really good.
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Apr 5, 2013 15:23
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Because some people in here are ridiculously quick to scream "Vanguards are OP!  "?They're not, they're literally more fragile knights with more reach (and not even on all weapons, see the Claymore), which is an advantage that's easily negated if you know what you're doing.
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Apr 5, 2013 15:34
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Yeah, they're just like knights, except when they click LMB they telekinetically kill anyone behind them.
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Apr 5, 2013 16:02
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Exodee posted:They're not, they're literally more fragile knights with more reach (and not even on all weapons, see the Claymore), which is an advantage that's easily negated if you know what you're doing. Yep. Vanguards aren't great. MaA can two shot them. Archers can one shot them with a crossbow or jav headshot. Knights and other vanguards can one shot them. They're compensated with reach weapons, but the point is that theoretically vanguards should not be on the front lines. They're a support class. I recently played through the tutorial again for the achievement, and it actually out-right tells you that knights are tanks and vanguards should be flanking and defending. But yeah the other side of that is the weapon damage arcs for vanguards are unfair and a lot of times I've seen attacks connect a good bit before the animation. A really good vanguard is an absolute dick, but he can still be out-matched with any other class (barring really unfair game mechanic coincidences). I'm on the complete other side of opinion on the game since the last patch, I've enjoyed the balance more than I did before. Some class/weapon combinations have advantages over others, but there's always an effective and legitimate counter combo. I'll admit there's still a lot of room for improvement. Plenty of bug fixes and mechanics to polish. But I just keep coming back because I love the combat and there's a lot of room to have fun. e: You know what I'd like to see? All damage turned down to like 2/3rds. I don't know why the game even needs headshots Manky fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 16:09
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Yeah, there's definitely room for improvement and like I said before I do think vanguards need some tweaking. Heck, they're barely used at all in any sort of competitive game, since most favor longsword/sword-of-war knights over them. I don't think non-archers can one-shot vanguards that easily though, unless you managed to nail one in the head with a charge attack. (good luck with that!) edit: I don't think removing headshots is a good idea, if only because removing them would be quite the nerf to men-at-arms. Robot Randy posted:Yeah, they're just like knights, except when they click LMB they telekinetically kill anyone behind them. Exodee fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 16:26
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Exodee posted:I don't think non-archers can one-shot vanguards that easily though, unless you managed to nail one in the head with a charge attack. (good luck with that!) You're right, vanguards can only one shot vanguards with a sprinting headshot. Knight/maul can do it with an overhead headshot though, but everyone hates people who play that combo anyway. But yes, that vanguard backswing does, in fact, kill people. One time a game ended while a vg was standing directly in front of a knight. Even though the action was frozen the vg kept swinging, and kept damaging the knight behind him. You could clearly see the weapon never touching him, so there was something buggy going on. I shouldn't have said I want headshots out, I just mean one-shot headshots. Decaps and heads 'sploding are a-okay
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Apr 5, 2013 16:37
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Exodee posted:Yeah, there's definitely room for improvement and like I said before I do think vanguards need some tweaking. Heck, they're barely used at all in any sort of competitive game, since most favor longsword/sword-of-war knights over them. Wait why would you ever pick the sword of war? This is the first time I've heard of it spoken positively. Genuinely curious since it seems worse than both the LS and the Messer, which at least has blunt damage going for it. Also good maa's are the worst thing to fight and make people scream "op" everytime they get twoshot by a onehander in 3 seconds flat.
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Apr 5, 2013 18:59
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The SOW has an extremely fast stab that does great damage to knights and vanguards. Coupled with decent slashing damage it is one of the most popular competitive weapons.
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Apr 5, 2013 19:10
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I know that blunt does extra damage to armored targets, does pierce do anything different from swings?
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Apr 5, 2013 19:35
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az posted:I know that blunt does extra damage to armored targets, does pierce do anything different from swings? It hurt's knights and vanguards more than slashes.
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Apr 5, 2013 19:41
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Yeah, piercing attacks are fairly consistent in how much damage they do. You can look that up in the weapon sheet I posted earlier, the damage values are all marked with different colors, making it easy to see how many hits you need to take down different targets. The SoW's balance of speed, range and damage makes it downright terrifying in a good player's hands. Its counterstab comes out extremely fast and its feints are quite hard to read on top of that. There's this one SoW user in RK that I just can't beat no matter what I do. (Not that I'm a competitive player mind you, but I like hanging out on their duel servers)
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Apr 5, 2013 19:47
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I wish someone made a compilation of good tips, tricks and techniques to get better at Chivalry but so far I've been gathering bits and pieces from different sources like that devs youtube and piecing it together one by one. If anyone knows a good source go right ahead and post it.
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Apr 5, 2013 20:03
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az posted:I wish someone made a compilation of good tips, tricks and techniques to get better at Chivalry but so far I've been gathering bits and pieces from different sources like that devs youtube and piecing it together one by one. If anyone knows a good source go right ahead and post it. Hexen ACl has some fairly good videos of several class/weapon combos.
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Apr 7, 2013 08:20
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Since the last patch, MAA isn't nearly as trash. Map geometry still sucks, vanguards are still buggy beyond belief, etc. But the game is fun again. Does anyone know the best way to counter one of those sprinting whirlwind vanguards as a MAA? If I'm vanguard I just stab them with my long weapon, but if I'm MAA I have to literally get inside their unblockable killsphere to kill them, and usually my teammates end up hitting me or blocking me and getting me killed. Do I just ignore them and let my teammates funnel into their sword or what? I can kill them if it's me vs them, but when I have teammates near it's loving impossible, and it sucks to watch literally every single one of my teammates completely ignore the objective in favor of meat-grinding their way at this one dude, single file, while I try to fight off the entire enemy team.
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Apr 7, 2013 08:45
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^^Keeping him at range and goading him into wasting a swing that you dodge and then quickly dash in for the counterstroke then staggering him to death could work.JohnsonsJohnson posted:Hexen ACl has some fairly good videos of several class/weapon combos. Watching him play a longsword knight really shows how different the hit detection was. Or my eyes are playing tricks on me but it really looks different from what my play looks like, or so I think.
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Apr 7, 2013 08:58
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Use your speed to get away, let him engage a teammate, and then swoop in for the kill. Unless they have a zweihaender, then you stay about 20 feet away from any angle to him and chuck that firepot.
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Apr 7, 2013 16:28
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Slappy Moose posted:Since the last patch, MAA isn't nearly as trash. Map geometry still sucks, vanguards are still buggy beyond belief, etc. But the game is fun again. Hop away and press X X 2 for the infamous MAA giggle and watch your knight bro take him out or wait just long enough to get back in his face and try to stun him before he does it again.
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Apr 7, 2013 17:26
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Alright, all this is exactly what I've been doing. I was just curious if there was some amazing trick I wasn't aware of, or if "sprint in circles and mash LMB" was literally the best tactic when playing as a sword using vanguard.
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Apr 7, 2013 17:40
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Drunken brawl mode is awesome. Robot Randy and I were playing on a low grav server and the admin switched it to the brawl map. So much fun. Especially the boxing ring. We were taking turns boxing with different speed and damage settings. poo poo was hella fun.
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Apr 7, 2013 17:55
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Slappy Moose posted:Does anyone know the best way to counter one of those sprinting whirlwind vanguards as a MAA? If I'm vanguard I just stab them with my long weapon, but if I'm MAA I have to literally get inside their unblockable killsphere to kill them, and usually my teammates end up hitting me or blocking me and getting me killed. If you're having trouble parrying their attacks, I'd recommend equipping the kite-shield. It pretty much counters feints and drag-swings completely, making it pretty easy to close the distance. (Don't take the buckler though, it's worse in nearly every way and blocks of way too much of your screen)
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Apr 7, 2013 18:19
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 Lowgrav servers are the best. gently caress the objective, go explorin' dong_nougat and I did just that last night, and I decided to record the fruits of our labors.       Stoneshill, Battlegrounds, and Citadel had to most poo poo to jump off/explore. At least, I think those are the right map names. The maps in pictures 1, 3, and 5 were a hoot to jump around in. Later on an admin on the server came on and started up a fight club, changing the game speed and damage multiplier based on what the winner of the bout picked. That was a blast as well, and I recorded most of my fights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk6xtfpnhQM
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Apr 7, 2013 19:59
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It seems like lately it's been all knights and vanguards taking the longest weapons they can and spinning around. I'm not normally one to bitch about basic techniques like that but when you have the longest range, highest defense, and biggest area of attack it really takes the fun out of things. At the least they should make team damage 100% so they'll at least take out their teammates who are also doing the same thing.
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Apr 7, 2013 20:14
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Haven't played in a while, and just saw that there are now separate entries for both "Chivalry: Mediaval Warfare" and "Chivalry: Mediaval Warfare Beta" in my steam library. What's up with that? Is it just a duplicate version of the one you can select in the "betas" tab in the steam properties of the regular game? And is that beta release publicly accessible and worth checking out?
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Apr 7, 2013 20:34
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Jymmybob posted:It seems like lately it's been all knights and vanguards taking the longest weapons they can and spinning around. I'm not normally one to bitch about basic techniques like that but when you have the longest range, highest defense, and biggest area of attack it really takes the fun out of things. At the least they should make team damage 100% so they'll at least take out their teammates who are also doing the same thing. It would be nice if they locked both first and third person to a maximum horizontal distance that you can drag to while swinging to prevent people playing roflcopter with two handers. Hugs Boson posted:Haven't played in a while, and just saw that there are now separate entries for both "Chivalry: Mediaval Warfare" and "Chivalry: Mediaval Warfare Beta" in my steam library. What's up with that? Is it just a duplicate version of the one you can select in the "betas" tab in the steam properties of the regular game? And is that beta release publicly accessible and worth checking out? I wouldn't worry about it, I have half a dozen betas in my steam games list and they're usually just leftovers from the beta phase that they didn't bother to delete for some reason.
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Apr 8, 2013 05:54
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Exodee posted:Yeah, as a MAA you don't want to get involved in big melees in general, since your own team is as much a danger as the enemy is at that point. Just run around the sides and stab distracted enemies in the back. Trust me, I'm well aware of how to be a good MAA. I'm always top of the scoreboard. The problem I have is that VG's who just spin and swing are just really, REALLY difficult to beat. I don't know how they can turn so fast while swinging, while I'm unable to turn that fast even as an MAA. It's just really annoying how hard it is to beat such a lovely, easy-to-use tactic. The problem with the kite shield is that small shields semi recently got nerfed, so they are harder to block with than a simple parry. Also VG weapons go through my blocks pretty often, so I hardly bother using them anymore. I just loving hate it when there is some idiot that is literally holding down two buttons and dragging his mouse around as fast as he can in random directions, and then I am unable to kill them just because the game is so buggy and un-playtested. Also god drat yeah, the buckler needs to be fixed. A shield that small should not block the entire screen. Jymmybob posted:At the least they should make team damage 100% so they'll at least take out their teammates who are also doing the same thing. Dear sweet loving jesus, please no. I already get killed by idiot pubbies enough as it is, I spend maybe 1/3 games just murdering my own team in spiteful anger until they quit or apologize. Slappy Moose fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Apr 8, 2013 |
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Apr 8, 2013 07:32
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DOOBLE POOST
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Apr 8, 2013 07:34
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Slappy Moose posted:I don't know how they can turn so fast while swinging, while I'm unable to turn that fast even as an MAA. 3rd person let's you turn around like a spastic while swinging 
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Apr 8, 2013 07:47
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Slappy Moose posted:VG's who just spin and swing are just really, REALLY difficult to beat. I don't know how they can turn so fast while swinging, while I'm unable to turn that fast even as an MAA. This doesn't always work, but I have one decent strategy for two shotting those guys. Watch 'em carefully. If they're just mashing on lmb, most vg weapons start out swinging right to left. Get the timing right and sprint past the vg. Use your alt-lmb with something fast as you're passing him so ideally you're almost hitting him off your screen. If that hit connects, spin around and try to stay behind him while you get an overhead off. If the vg is being tricky with a decent weapon, just disengage with a dodge and bolt. Weak vgs start keeping their distance because you run around decapping them in about two seconds. It's not foolproof and a lot of times you'll need to be able to parry an attack, which yeah sucks hard sometimes against that class. Manky fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Apr 8, 2013 |
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Apr 8, 2013 10:37
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