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Mar 21, 2013 23:53
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 15:33 |
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 There's also a thread in Games for Ultimate Ninja Storm 3.
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Mar 21, 2013 23:56
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From the previous thread:quote:Nobody sees it, but he [Sasuke] will magically be as strong. Reason: eye hacks. I can say without any doubt that the whole reason Susanoo exists is to let Sasuke get even footing with Naruto's Bijuu mode.
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Mar 22, 2013 00:06
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Top Ten Posters in Thread 13 (aka Wall of Shame)code:
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Mar 22, 2013 00:13
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That image is, without a doubt, the best drat summary of Sharingan I have ever seen. 
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Mar 22, 2013 00:22
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I'm still curious where the current flashback leads to. It's been interesting but nothing of revelation yet.
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Mar 22, 2013 00:29
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Hugely internet-honored to have my silly joke and a reference to an awesome webcomic constantly bouncing up and down the Warehouse's page one for the foreseeable future,ChronoReverse posted:I'm still curious where the current flashback leads to. It's been interesting but nothing of revelation yet. We've yet to see how it came to be that Madara and the Uchiha joined the Senju and formed Konoha, and what resulted in Madara splitting again and setting the Kyuubi on Konoha. We should see the nature of Konoha as it was conceived, the early politics of it and the Uchiha's relationship with it. BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 00:41
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Reading the first Naruto Manga thread, I find one dude on the first page foreseeing the Rock Lee spinoff series. Goons are prophets.
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Mar 22, 2013 00:47
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I keep meaning to go back through the threads since I started contributing and seeing how much of my conjecture and theories came good. I suspect it's not a drat lot.
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Mar 22, 2013 01:34
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One thing thats been annoying me lately, despite the chapters individually being quite good, is that there are a few changes that could be made to Naruto to make the story a lot better (of course, IMO): -Keep Itachi as a bad guy. He was a horrifying villain, a million miles stronger than almost every character. His motivation was simple in that he wanted the EMS and to test his power. He felt like the standard the rest had to live up to, someone from the "new generation" that was on par with the Kages and Sannin, and the illusion based nature of his fighting was really cool. They could have had Sasuke still beat him, maybe using his Orochimaru powers giving him the edge but losing them at the end so that Sasuke wasn't stronger than him at the end (like Ichigo in bleach and his hollow abilities giving him equal footing with Byakuya) -Get rid of the ridiculous Resurrection gimmick. Characters coming back to life is almost always boring, and while it gave us some cool guys like the various Tsukikages (sp) and getting to see Madara fight for real, it feels like it cheapens them a bit. They could have simply kept some of them alive as defectors, or had Madara survive in an Orochimaru-style to still be an end villain. -That said, keep Orochimaru relevant and dangerous. He was introduced as one of the most terrifying villains in the series, and while nobody really outright destroyed him except Itachi, it feels like he's on a lower tier than most of the prominent characters now which is a shame. -Chill with the power creep. I like the Sage Mode for Naruto, I wish he had learned that and used it as his main fighting mode so that the 9 tails form didn't exist. Constant new powerups are boring IMO. -He shouldn't have killed off all the Akatsuki members in their first major fight. At the start, they were really cool, badass guys who were individually incredibly powerful and in their teams almost unbeatable except for the top guys. Sasori was awesome, but after him everyone kept falling at the first hurdle, and it was weird in a setting sense that random mid level guys from the leaf were beating these supposedly ominous enemies left and right. Overall, I do like where we are now. The story is pretty good and it's obviously just a vehicle for cool explosions and stuff, but a few changes would have made things a lot better for me. Stuff like Snake Sage Mode rocks, I wish we saw more of it. Come to think of it, most of my favorite characters are those that took a single gimmick and became so good at it that they gained reputation, like the 4th with his teleportation, Orochimaru with his almost-immortality, and Sasori with the puppet body. The switch to God Tier techniques has cheapened a lot that came before, but it's still fun to watch.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:25
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quote:-Keep Itachi as a bad guy. He was a horrifying villain, a million miles stronger than almost every character. His motivation was simple in that he wanted the EMS and to test his power. He felt like the standard the rest had to live up to, someone from the "new generation" that was on par with the Kages and Sannin, and the illusion based nature of his fighting was really cool. They could have had Sasuke still beat him, maybe using his Orochimaru powers giving him the edge but losing them at the end so that Sasuke wasn't stronger than him at the end (like Ichigo in bleach and his hollow abilities giving him equal footing with Byakuya) Am I the only one who thought that from the first time we heard the story about why Sasuke wanted to kill Itachi, that it was pretty obvious Itachi wasn't a total bad guy?
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Mar 22, 2013 02:50
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Dexo posted:Am I the only one who thought that from the first time we heard the story about why Sasuke wanted to kill Itachi, that it was pretty obvious Itachi wasn't a total bad guy? No, when I first heard the story, my brain instantly went to 'why did he do that. There was probably a reason.' Because up until then, all the badguys had motivations besides 'lol kill everyone' (Except maybe Zabuza, I don't remember his motivations.)
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Mar 22, 2013 02:55
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KittyEmpress posted:No, when I first heard the story, my brain instantly went to 'why did he do that. There was probably a reason.' Because up until then, all the badguys had motivations besides 'lol kill everyone' (Except maybe Zabuza, I don't remember his motivations.) Zabuza wanted to overthrow the then Mizukage, who was actually being controlled by Tobi. He was basically a broken person raised in a broken system that desperately wanted to fix the system. Sort of like a proto-Madara, maybe?
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Mar 22, 2013 03:10
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KittyEmpress posted:No, when I first heard the story, my brain instantly went to 'why did he do that. There was probably a reason.' Because up until then, all the badguys had motivations besides 'lol kill everyone' (Except maybe Zabuza, I don't remember his motivations.) Zabuza wasn't really evil. He was just hired to to a job. Soon as he lost a the reason to continue fighting Kakashi he stopped(and then killed the ever living poo poo out of the real villains)
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Mar 22, 2013 03:10
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Dexo posted:Am I the only one who thought that from the first time we heard the story about why Sasuke wanted to kill Itachi, that it was pretty obvious Itachi wasn't a total bad guy? I was like 10 when I read it so no I thought he was some badass mass murderer and an awesome villain.
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Mar 22, 2013 03:26
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The reason Itachi being a good guy is lame is the same reason why Naruto being the Fourth's son is lame; it contradicts all of the thematic buildup from the first half of the series. Naruto's arc was about rising from deprivation and coming to terms with his own need for friendship, and Sasuke's was about whether or not he should live his life for the sake of his dead family by devoting himself to avenging them. These arcs only made sense if you assumed that the people of Konoha truly had reason to fear and despise Naruto and that Itachi was being honest in his explanations to Sasuke. Come the timeskip and it's revealed that Naruto's basically the son of the president and being the container of a tailed beast is a traditional position in society. Wow, that's really weird and unsatisfying given the building up the start. How about Sasuke? Oh, he kills his brother, the goal which he was willing sacrifice his whole life for, and then listens to a stranger for 15 minutes before deciding that his brother was actually protecting his family when he decided to murder them? hmm, that basically ruins the meaning of everything Sasuke did, ever. Like, two of the best scenes past the timeskip are when Naruto gets hailed by everyone after fighting Pain, and when Sasuke just loving collapses after finally killing his brother. They're great moments, and are totally loving ruined by all of the new plot around them completely contradicting why those moments should be thematically important. I know it's Shounen, but Part 1 Naruto was pretty sharp and it's fall to tepidness is really disappointing. The latest chapters have been pretty good (hey, they are acknowledging that having Child Soldiers around is a Bad Thing!) but only because it doesn't focus on any of the main cast who have been hollowed out so much as to be utterly boring. edit: Yeah it was incredibly obvious that Naruto would be the Fourth's son since we saw him in Kakashi's Gaiden but that doesn't make it any less bothersome how it was handled so poorly imo. Scrree fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 03:50
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I don't agree that Itachi's secret non-villainy wrecks his previous place in the story to the same degree that 4th Hokage Dad does. Naruto being the heir to not one but two brilliant geniuses undermines pretty much everything he's been since day one and huge portions of the story that were about bloodline not mattering and seizing the destiny you want. Regardless of the revelation of alternative motives behind the actions, Itachi still did murder his entire family. He still did present the image of an invincible monster, he still did say things to Sasuke intended to influence his behavior. Itachi having pure motives doesn't undo actual events, which were the actual impetus for Sasuke's character changes and conflicts. Naruto being the son of the greatest ninja of all time does completely undo his character changes and conflicts because those changes and conflicts were rooted in overcoming his own mediocrity, which now never existed. Now, you can argue that the changes Sasuke went through AFTER the reveal were bad form for the character, but it doesn't undermine anything that came before. Where as Naruto being the 4th's son all along is basically saying that his fight with Neji was a gigantic lie. So it's not really the same at all.
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Mar 22, 2013 05:16
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Sanguinia posted:I don't agree that Itachi's secret non-villainy wrecks his previous place in the story to the same degree that 4th Hokage Dad does. How so? The series was never about bloodlines not mattering(Or has been hypocritical about it since the start) Naruto has always had a built in advantage because of the Kyuubi being able to funnel him chakra. It's the only reason he beat Naruto was and is a genius, he just was a man made one. Even if the 4th wasn't his father he would still be better simply because of the time and place he was born. Naruto was telling Neji that people aren't stuck in a certain destiny just because of where they are at now. Just because he was born in the branch family doesn't mean he has to give up hope and just be angry. The only person who preached Hard Work over Genius in this series has been Lee, and he gets his rear end kicked.
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Mar 22, 2013 05:44
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Scrree posted:Like, two of the best scenes past the timeskip are when Naruto gets hailed by everyone after fighting Pain, and when Sasuke just loving collapses after finally killing his brother. They're great moments, and are totally loving ruined by all of the new plot around them completely contradicting why those moments should be thematically important. I gotta disagree about this. They're both fantastic moments because it's the end of the first part of their character arcs. Up until that point Naruto had wanted to be accepted and Sasuke had one sided revenge on his mind. They're fantastic moments because we come to the natural conclusion of those plots. Naruto isn't being praised because he's the son of the Fourth but because he came through and straight out put the beat down on someone who had just leveled the village. He got, in the end of it, the love of everyone he just protected, and even in the wake of it he wasn't looked on as just the Fourth's son. He is a hero in his own right. For Sasuke, he finally gets his revenge and gets the hint that things aren't what they seem. If anything, this is a much more poignant moment as it's the end of a tangible goal for him. His collapse is as much an issue of exhaustion as it is a moment of "I did it. What now?" If not for Obito showing up and manipulating him in the same was Madara manipulated himself, Sasuke might not be the character he is now. Sure, he probably wouldn't go back to the village, but he certainly wouldn't have attacked the Kages if Obtio didn't plant the seed into his head. There are only a handful of people who actually know what we know, or at least what we think we know, in the world right now. The idea of redemption gets turned up to 11 after both these moments but they certainly aren't ruined because poo poo that was hinted at for years was actually revealed as true. Dexo posted:How so? Also this, a hundred times. Who Naruto's parents are doesn't matter. Period. He earned every ounce of praise he got because of who he is, not what his circumstances are/were.
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Mar 22, 2013 05:52
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Prison Warden posted:Top Ten Posters in Thread 13 (aka Wall of Shame) Dear lord. I really have to cut down on all the insomnia posting.
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Mar 22, 2013 05:54
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tbp posted:-Chill with the power creep. I like the Sage Mode for Naruto, I wish he had learned that and used it as his main fighting mode so that the 9 tails form didn't exist. Constant new powerups are boring IMO. We're at the endgame now, were you honestly not expecting Naruto to harness the Kyuubi's full power by the end? My only issue with 9-tails mode is how soon it happened after he had learned Sage mode, there should have been another arc or two between them.
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Mar 22, 2013 05:59
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WhiffleballDude posted:We're at the endgame now, were you honestly not expecting Naruto to harness the Kyuubi's full power by the end? My only issue with 9-tails mode is how soon it happened after he had learned Sage mode, there should have been another arc or two between them. My expectations and what would make a better story are very different. Again, it hasn't been handled terribly, but it would have been a lot better IMO had the story gone in a pretty different direction. I kind of liked the idea that he was learning to utilize the 9 tails chakra, but the dangers it presented to people around him would shun him away. It would have been much, hm, neater storytelling if he learned the Sage Mode in order to have a power that isn't the Kyuubi, and the last we saw of it was the time against Pain. Also, having Pain blow up the entire village and having it Dragon Ball'd back perfectly was slightly retarded. I agree with the poster above that the circumstances around two of the best scenes of the whole story, Naruto returning after Pain and Sasuke after beating Itachi were kind of ruined due to the story around them. Taken alone, they're amazing scenes. Itachi lurching toward Sasuke at the end, coughing up blood due to the illness and exhaustion was a great image, it's too bad he actually was cool with it and the insane pathologically crazy muttering was an act.
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Mar 22, 2013 06:28
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Ssge Mode was really cool and then they completely ditched it with 9 Tail mode which he's almost always in by now despite it supposedly using up a lot of his Chakra.
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Mar 22, 2013 06:35
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Smornstein posted:Ssge Mode was really cool and then they completely ditched it with 9 Tail mode which he's almost always in by now despite it supposedly using up a lot of his Chakra.
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Mar 22, 2013 06:46
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It's nice to see other people who get that the point of Naruto's character isnt that he is an utterly no talent bum who who got powerful solely through hard work. Naruto is the character you build in an RPG who has a ton of disadvantages (no friends, poor chakra control due to demon, hated by the villagers etc) so he could take a bunch of advantages and then spent the rest of the campaign buying those advantages off. Naruto isn't hard work guy, he's the guy with hidden talent that no one can see because their prejudice blinds them to it. And I guess he isn't academic despite having a decent head on his shoulders and wanting to be the best. And Itachi being a secret "good guy" the whole time I think works quite well as Sasuke getting his revenge, punctuated by his brother not being the monster he thought he was sort of works to emphasise the emptiness of pursuing revenge and the cyclic nature of the eye for an eye attitude that ninja have. Sasuke is the literally embodiment of this cyclic revenge, which is the actual big bad in the manga. This isn't even subtext, it's been outright stated a few times. All that's mostly opinion, I guess, but I outright disagree with the statement that Itachi's motivation before that reveal was better. having a character who does a bunch of bad poo poo just to "test their own power" is the cheapest shounen cliche around. Naruto's hardly the deepest piece of work but right from the get go it's had villains with more nuance than that. Having the village dragonballed back was a dumb move. I think the zombies are actually awesome, but the manga's getting a bit heavy on the bring people back to life techniques that don't make horrific abominations against all mankind. It's also kind of jarring in that while Pain presumably could only bring back people that died a short time ago, which was an explanation for why he didn't revive Jiraya it was apparently a key part of Madara's plan that Obito bring him back to life even though he had been dead for like a decade at least. I guess Jiraya's body being lost in the deepest parts of the ocean, despite the land of rain being hundreds of miles from the coast had something to do with it again. Smornstein posted:Ssge Mode was really cool and then they completely ditched it with 9 Tail mode which he's almost always in by now despite it supposedly using up a lot of his Chakra. That isn't even an issue anymore. It used up a lot of his chakra because when he was using Kurama's chakra, Kurama was free to drain his. But now they are best buddies. I think Sage Mode has stuck around a lot better than I thought it would, since he still busts it out fairly often. Before the Pain fight Naruto had a real problem with going off, training to do something, using it once and then immediately shelving it forever. It's why I'm kinda glad he is using the Nine Tails power again, though I'd prefer if he'd used his unity with the Nine Tails to overcome the limitations on his Sage Mode (by the Elder Frogs not being repelled no more) or by letting Kurama drive while he mentally summons Sage Chakra. I basically want a scene now where he has the Kyuubi ghost form surrounding him, fighting while he is sitting meditating inside it. Rohan Kishibe fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 06:48
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Prison Warden posted:Naruto isn't hard work guy This is bull, Naruto has worked harder than anyone in this series except maybe Rock Lee. He was shown training to the point of absolute exhaustion multiple times, with tree climbing, and rasengan, and even with his elemental manipulation when he did the clone training that's him doing 1000 times the raining all at once remember that all the pain and exhaustion from those clones does affect his real body. He is absolutely hard work guy.
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Mar 22, 2013 08:43
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The fourth being here is just making me not care about the flashbacks. I mean, I like them, but every chapter that he is revived and not out kicking rear end or talking or at all being proactive and being all "wheres my kid?" just makes me antsy. When are they gonna get to the fireworks factory?
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Mar 22, 2013 09:03
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tbp posted:Itachi lurching toward Sasuke at the end, coughing up blood due to the illness and exhaustion was a great image, it's too bad he actually was cool with it and the insane pathologically crazy muttering was an act. The bolded has always bugged me. I assumed Itachi would end up being a good guy, but this was bullshit. What illness? He never looked sickly until right at the end, when he was getting his rear end kicked (on purpose.) Even when he was brought back, it never came up again.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:11
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A SPECIAL UNICORN posted:The bolded has always bugged me. I assumed Itachi would end up being a good guy, but this was bullshit. What illness? He never looked sickly until right at the end, when he was getting his rear end kicked (on purpose.) Even when he was brought back, it never came up again. They killed him with an illness because he was too powerful and knew too much. If he had lived and become good, he could have mucked up Obito's entire timeline, broke the news to Sasuke about his true intentions in a way that didn't make him retardedly evil, informed the villages of all the specifics of the bad guy's plans and powers much earlier, and just generally futzed up everything for the upcoming war plot, possibly up to and including being the only ninja powerful enough to fight Madara and/or Obito one-on-one, since the later was constantly worried Itachi would betray him and ruin his plots. It's a cheap plot device, but it did its job.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:49
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Elfgames posted:This is bull, Naruto has worked harder than anyone in this series except maybe Rock Lee. He was shown training to the point of absolute exhaustion multiple times, with tree climbing, and rasengan, and even with his elemental manipulation when he did the clone training that's him doing 1000 times the raining all at once remember that all the pain and exhaustion from those clones does affect his real body. He is absolutely hard work guy. Honestly Neji probably worked harder than anyone in the series. Neji literally taught himself his clans ultimate techniques, without any help from anyone else(I mean I guess he had TenTen to throw stuff at him). Naruto had Jiraiya and Kakashi to teach him. As well as the ability to look both right and left at the same time. Neji didn't have any help what so ever in learning how to use his clans abilities, and managed to master his clan's ultimate at a very young age. Which is why Lee's Hardwork over Genius schtick is even more hilarious as Neji pretty obviously puts in just as much work as he does. Dexo fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 12:07
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Lee's just ones of those dumbasses in school the studies all semester and still only pulls off a B- in the class.
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Mar 22, 2013 14:35
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Hand of the King posted:Lee's just ones of those dumbasses in school the studies all semester and still only pulls off a B- in the class. Just for the sake of balance, Neji got killed and Lee just kicked a super-zombie in half.
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Mar 22, 2013 15:08
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Yeah when I say he isn't the hard work guy, I just mean that isn't his schtick. Real badasses in this manga tend to be people who are gifted who work ultra hard at improving themselves.
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Mar 22, 2013 16:12
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I just realized this manga has missed a huge opportunity to bring back Kakashi's dad as a zombie for more psychological torture.
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Mar 22, 2013 16:43
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A SPECIAL UNICORN posted:The bolded has always bugged me. I assumed Itachi would end up being a good guy, but this was bullshit. What illness? He never looked sickly until right at the end, when he was getting his rear end kicked (on purpose.) Even when he was brought back, it never came up again. Yeah it was a bit ridiculous. I wish it hadn't been included. As for Itachi, if he stayed a bad guy being without nuance: I do agree that it lacks depth, but I liked it because of how it related to Sasuke. If he had stayed evil, Sasuke's subsequent actions would be so much better because they'd showcase the sacrifice of pursuing revenge and power at any cost. With the reveal, Sasuke's actions since then have been a bizarre mash up of reasoning and just plain random moves, it's kind of jarring. Even if he would have lacked nuance, the sheer pathological desire created some awesome moments. His absurd confidence, near-neverending reservoir of techniques and especially that final walk toward Sasuke to pluck his eyes out was really stylistically awesome. Even the final head-tap would make sense, and could be interpreted as "he missed because, you know, he was almost loving dead" or "in his delirium and exhaustion you remember that he couldn't kill Sasuke". Instead it's some insane, eye magic transfer.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:56
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tbp posted:With the reveal, Sasuke's actions since then have been a bizarre mash up of reasoning and just plain random moves, it's kind of jarring. Guess he's got brain problems!
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Mar 22, 2013 18:07
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The forehead tap was to bring back the thing that Itachi did to Sasuke when they were young. Itachi could have implanted the spell to burn Tobi when Sasuke saw him any time Sasuke was in his genjutsu. Sasuke's Mangekyo is his own. The Amateseru that Tobi almost got hit with was a spell that Itachi cast. Like the spell he put in Naruto to counter sharingan genjutsu's. Sasuke after finding out about Itachi's true history realized that everything had done was for nothing. He killed the only person in the world who truely cared about him (Hence him getting the Mangekyo after finding out.) Madara used that to slip him enough bullshit to get him to act how Madara wanted him to act. Sasuke's true test come s after he gets the info dump from the Hokage's. Dexo fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 18:08
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Dexo posted:Which is why Lee's Hardwork over Genius schtick is even more hilarious as Neji pretty obviously puts in just as much work as he does. This is sort of one of my problems with the story. In real life, there are geniuses who actually do work really hard. Everyone doesn't fall into neat categories of smart and lazy or dumb and really hardworking. However, I think the whole point of Lee wasn't to be better than all the geniuses, but to show that he can compete. The theme is that anyone can be exceptionally great if they work hard enough, even if they have zero talent. Edit: Forgot a word. AshB fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 18:39
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AshB posted:This is sort of one of my problems with the story. In real life, there are geniuses who actually do work really hard. Everyone doesn't fall into neat categories of smart and lazy or dumb and really hardworking. However, I think the whole point of Lee wasn't to be better all the geniuses, but to show that he can compete. The theme is that anyone can be exceptionally great if they work hard enough, even if they have zero talent. The story doesn't support the idea that the geniuses get by without work though. I don't see how you could get that from the quoted text at all. Lee's hard work lets him compete despite him being the ninja-equivalent of a mentally handicapped person. But Neji works just as hard as him despite being a genius, and this means that Lee can't beat him. The whole point of the story is that (almost) everyone in it has earned their power through blood, sweat, and tears. Even at the beginning, the geniuses worked hard and got results. It's not that they're just magically better, they just work hard and get good results. What was said earlier about Lee being the student who studies constantly and only gets B's makes sense. He does work hard, and it keeps him above average. But when someone who naturally can get B's off conjecture studies, they'll get A's. That's what 'genius' is. It's lost on a lot of people who just facepalm and look at Lee and say 'well that means hard work is worthless lol' that THE GENIUSES. Are. Working. Just. As. Hard.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:56
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Err... that's pretty much exactly what I said, but in more words.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:59
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