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Elmo Oxygen
Jun 11, 2007

Kazuo Misaki Superfan #3

Don't make me lift my knee, young man.

Ich posted:

Brainstorming an idea about a gnome racial move for The Mage:

One of my players runs a svirfneblin mage. His racial move is this:

quote:

When surrounded by natural stone, you cannot be seen unless you choose to be. You can, of course, be detected by any other means.

It's not very magey, but it's been really useful.

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Ich
Feb 6, 2013

This Homicidal Hindu
will ruin your life.

Elmo Oxygen posted:

One of my players runs a svirfneblin mage. His racial move is this:

quote:

When surrounded by natural stone, you cannot be seen unless you choose to be. You can, of course, be detected by any other means.
It's not very magey, but it's been really useful.

Thanks, I like it.

TalonDemonKing
May 4, 2011

Does this game have any skills? If my fighter was a merchant before he picked up his sword, is there any way to reflect that at all?

madadric
May 18, 2008

Such a BK.

TalonDemonKing posted:

Does this game have any skills? If my fighter was a merchant before he picked up his sword, is there any way to reflect that at all?

making a custom move is the easiest way.

When you use your history as a merchant to try and solve a problem, roll +cha. On a 10+, everything works out. On a 7-9, you're a bit rusty, and it costs more than you'd have liked. On a miss, a past deal gone sour comes back to bite you.

PublicOpinion
Oct 21, 2010

Her style is new but the face is the same as it was so long ago...
I've considered writing a list of "day jobs" that would provide a Racial Move level of benefit, and then everyone would choose 1 to start with.

Something like:

Navigator: You know the stars like the back of your hand. When you have a clear view of the sky, you can spend a moment to accurately determine direction and approximate location.

Wanderer: You know how to pack efficiently. When you pack for a journey, choose one item of weight 2 or less: while it stays packed, it counts as weight 0.

Drunk: Other drunks like you. When you buy a round for a group of strangers, the DM will tell you a local rumor. While the rumor may be false, the strangers believe it to be true.

Caballero: You can accomplish amazing feats with rope. You are familiar with all knots and can tie knots that slip, hold fast, slide slowly, or come apart with a sharp tug. In addition to any other gear, you start with a lasso (Reach, Weight 1, Stun).

slydingdoor
Oct 26, 2010

Are you in or are you out?

madadric posted:

making a custom move is the easiest way.

When you use your history as a merchant to try and solve a problem, roll +cha. On a 10+, everything works out. On a 7-9, you're a bit rusty, and it costs more than you'd have liked. On a miss, a past deal gone sour comes back to bite you.
That's a good move, but I'd say the easiest way to handle that is to just play the game, let the fiction be first and work with the basic moves. Just explain why your merchant background matters, how it lets you do stuff, and if you trigger a basic move you'll be called to roll it.

For instance, in my group the Mage had a mercantile background the player referred to which allowed him to easily trigger a Parley with some fellow merchants who wanted a solid investment backed by someone with some business acumen, someone like themselves. But his charisma sucked, and the Thief's was good, so the group wanted to get the thief to make the roll. However, the Thief, without that background trying to accomplish the same goal, would've gotten told to shut up and take their get-rich-quick schemes elsewhere, a threat he'd dealing with would trigger a Defy Danger to charm his way out of it, then could Parley if he succeeded. Instead the Mage just sponsored the Thief, who made the pitch. If the Thief had flubbed the Parley the Mage was ready to aid him, and I was ready to think of some sort of "danger, retribution, or cost" that might come his way, but the Thief just succeeded so everyone was happy.

The mechanics of their decisions stand out in the blow-by-blow, but it made sense in the fiction at the time as well. The Mage knew the Thief was much more convincing than he was, and they wanted to get some money asap, also if everything went to pot he could always throw the Thief under the bus, and secretly cover his escape with magic because he was a bro. That way he kept up appearances to the merchants and the Thief got more notoriety for hosing fatcats, since he himself was a Robin Hood type.

Likewise, during play each characters' background figured into who could trigger Spout Lores to appraise different types of treasure. Stolen goods to be fenced: the Thief could trigger that no problem. Magical items to be brought to a museum or collector? Give it to the Mage. Random medicines, folk art, and agricultural products? Ask the Druid.

Without creating any custom moves for it, the PCs' backgrounds still mattered a lot.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

TalonDemonKing posted:

Does this game have any skills? If my fighter was a merchant before he picked up his sword, is there any way to reflect that at all?

madadric posted:

making a custom move is the easiest way.

When you use your history as a merchant to try and solve a problem, roll +cha. On a 10+, everything works out. On a 7-9, you're a bit rusty, and it costs more than you'd have liked. On a miss, a past deal gone sour comes back to bite you.

You don't even need to make a custom move. You go "I was a merchant" and the DM goes "cool" and then later on when you're trying to do things you narrate how being a merchant helps you solve a problem. Fiction Comes First.

Basically, what slydingdoor said.

PublicOpinion posted:

I've considered writing a list of "day jobs" that would provide a Racial Move level of benefit, and then everyone would choose 1 to start with.

fax mentioned working on something like that in the old thread, but I believe he didn't get around to finishing it. It's a cool idea, though, and one I was considering investigating for Funhaver's eventual DW player options supplement.

gnome7
Oct 21, 2010

Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??

gnome7 posted:

gnome7 posted:

Mikan and I are co-authoring a third party dungeon world book! The original Dungeon World is a bit too locked into generic fantasy, so we decided to write a book all about making Dungeon World a bit more fantastic in how it treats fantasy. I've posted one preview in this thread already, and Mikan posted a preview on his G+ account. I'll just compile those previews here for people to look at:

The Lantern
Mikan's setting post
Some merfolk I drew for Inverse World, Merfolk being the predominate race of the setting.

Everyone remember this? Me too. Have another preview: The Survivor.

Another Inverse World preview, coming your way! This week's preview is The Sky Dancer. Flight's always been a major fantasy staple, but it's never really been well represented in the tradgaming genre. So we decided to do something about that - the Sky Dancer, a class all about flying.

The exciting thing about this week's preview is we're holding a vote on which class to preview next! Vote in the link above. Your options are Spiderman, Captain Jack Sparrow, and Samus Aran.

exuma
Feb 8, 2013

Man,I would play the hell out of that. I really like the way you're replacing alignment and racials too.

Ich
Feb 6, 2013

This Homicidal Hindu
will ruin your life.

exuma posted:

Man,I would play the hell out of that. I really like the way you're replacing alignment and racials too.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, too. I will adopt those racial and alignment alternatives for all my games, and, you know, explore your setting as well!

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

Racials I like but never really cared for alignment, so I'm using the motivation concept as well.

gnome7
Oct 21, 2010

Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??
So I made another thing. That thing is The Witch. Heavily inspired Harry Potter, Kiki's Delivery Service, Marisa Kirisame, and probably every other witch in the past 15 years of fantasy media, this class flies on a broom, brews up potions, and shoots magic at things, only sometimes in that order. Also you can beat people up with a broomstick made of lightning by level 2. I'll be putting this on DTRPG once I get art and give it a couple editing runs. Feedback is definitely appreciated in the meantime!


help someone stop me I can't stop making dungeon world content I have no self control

vulgey
Aug 2, 2004

Covered in blood and without any clothes. Where is my mother?

gnome7 posted:

help someone stop me I can't stop making dungeon world content I have no self control

Never stop, this is wonderful :allears:

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.

gnome7 posted:

So I made another thing. That thing is The Witch. Heavily inspired Harry Potter, Kiki's Delivery Service, Marisa Kirisame, and probably every other witch in the past 15 years of fantasy media, this class flies on a broom, brews up potions, and shoots magic at things, only sometimes in that order. Also you can beat people up with a broomstick made of lightning by level 2. I'll be putting this on DTRPG once I get art and give it a couple editing runs. Feedback is definitely appreciated in the meantime!

This is amazing. I really appreciate the Drive and Witch's Craft replacing alignment and race. Also love the book move for it's simplicity.

Feedback:

Names - add Serafina

Winter Witch - is much more situational than the other two options. I can't think of any suggestions though.

Broomstick - I think the phrasing could use work and is a bit redundant in places. Also maybe it's meant to allow the witch to skip Perilous Journey moves, but that seems odd and maybe it shouldn't? Suggestion:
"You can fly atop any broomstick, although some brooms behave better than others. You can fly with up to one passenger and for up to one day."

Cauldron's Brew - consider adding:
"• You're missing an ingredient and will have to acquire it to continue."
Personally I liked the sidequest hook potential of that part of Ritual, and sending others to get their ingredients is something Witches do all the time.

Battle Mage and War Mage - Are you supposed to be able to choose both Messy +damage tags at once? If so, rename one "Really Messy" or something. If not, clarify somehow, maybe by making War Mage a replace move with the Close and Area tags on its list. Suggestion on phrasing if you go that route:
"When you use Black Magic, choose three tags and a range tag instead of two."

Forbidden Magic - needs a downside. Also with those options, very rarely will you need to spend all 3 hold. That said the Hold options are perfect in their simplicity. Suggestion:
"On a 10+ hold 3. On a 7-9, hold 1 and the GM also holds 1."

Stitched Together - I wouldn't say this needs a downside, but if you phrase it as: "they return to life, whether they like it or not.", then that gets both the player and the GM thinking about consequences.


Most of the moves are just plain great though.

UrbanLabyrinth
Jan 28, 2009

When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence


College Slice

TheDemon posted:

Stitched Together - I wouldn't say this needs a downside, but if you phrase it as: "they return to life, whether they like it or not.", then that gets both the player and the GM thinking about consequences.

Also, "breathe" instead of "breath".

Ich
Feb 6, 2013

This Homicidal Hindu
will ruin your life.

vulgey posted:

Never stop, this is wonderful :allears:

Yep, what he said.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
Okay, several conversations with PixelScum and others have lead me to realise that I'm not overly fond of the D&D 3-18 stats in DW, and I've been giving getting rid of them some thought.

The long and short of it is that getting rid of stats and keeping just the mods breaks:

1) The rate at which your stat mods increase.

2) HP.

If you want to read poorly-written word vomit you can go here where I spell out my thought process, but essentially:

  • Instead of getting a new stat point every level, you get to bump up a stat mod every even level (2, 4, 6, 8, 10).

  • Instead of each class adding Constitution to a base HP number, HP is fixed and determined by guesstimating what a typical member of a given class would normally put into Constitution.

The HP fix is janky as all hell but gives the following list of HP values:

Seemingly completely arbitrary but based on my guesstimates:
Bard 18 HP; Cleric 21 HP; Druid 19 HP; Fighter 26 HP; Paladin 23 HP; Ranger 21 HP; Thief 18 HP; Wizard 16 HP; Shaman 21 HP.

Rounded to the nearest multiple of five (I like this less because it makes HP differences between classes even smaller):
Bard 20 HP; Cleric 20 HP; Druid 20 HP; Fighter 25 HP; Paladin 25 HP (poor Fighter, there goes your very slight toughness advantage); Thief 20 HP; Wizard 15 HP; Shaman 20 HP.

Alternatively, rounded to the nearest multiple of three would probably work as a compromise between those two options.

Ultimately, I think the whole exercise basically shows that trying to get rid of the stats in this way is pretty pointless. PixelScum is working on a tag-based approach which will probably work much better.


On an unrelated note, gnome, if you're still updating the Improved Fighter, why doesn't Signature Weapon have "Bow and Arrows/Rope Dart" as a look option and "Near" as a range option and why can't I be an awesome bow-using Fighter?

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Apr 3, 2013

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help
Why not make the HP bonus a multiplier of the CON mod? If your HP is 20 (or whatever) + (CON*4) that should give you a nice distribution. Also I can't check but don't the classes have different baseline HPs regardless of constitution anyway?

The stat point fix lets you get a +3 mod to one of your stats at level 2, which you can't do normally and might be a little overpowering, depending on how the game looks.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

On an unrelated note, gnome, if you're still updating the Improved Fighter, why doesn't Signature Weapon have "Bow and Arrows/Rope Dart" as a look option and "Near" as a range option and why can't I be an awesome bow-using Fighter?

Any GM would be totally fine with houseruling this :colbert:

vulgey
Aug 2, 2004

Covered in blood and without any clothes. Where is my mother?
Is there a playbook version of the v2 Shaman? I'm assuming the one in the OP is v1.

sentrygun
Dec 29, 2009

i say~
hey start:nya-sh
I'm torn on the full stat numbers because they work pretty well for what they do (determine modifiers/HP and how fast those modifiers go up), but in my limited experience with showing people new to tabletop games in general it's really weird to give them a number and then tell them that one never really matters and to only worry about the one in parentheses next to it. To someone with D&D experience it just makes sense, but to new players it's just a weird number that feels like it should be more important than it actually is. It's something you get over fairly quickly once it starts to make sense, but it shouldn't have to take so long for it to make sense. I think some kind of advance boxes or something to show your progress in a stat might work to remove the number while still keeping the system the same, but that might be more trouble than it's worth.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

Boing posted:

Why not make the HP bonus a multiplier of the CON mod? If your HP is 20 (or whatever) + (CON*4) that should give you a nice distribution. Also I can't check but don't the classes have different baseline HPs regardless of constitution anyway?

There's different base HP amounts, 4/6/8/10. Using a multiplied Con mod would be janky as hell (derived stats are not elegant at all) and also doesn't map directly because DW uses pre-3.x stat modifiers instead of the modern mod=(10-stat)/2 convention (this is mentioned in my giant horrible posts on G+).

Boing posted:

The stat point fix lets you get a +3 mod to one of your stats at level 2, which you can't do normally and might be a little overpowering, depending on how the game looks.

It does, but I don't think it'd be a huge problem and I'm assuming people will want to shore up their weaker mods or get a second +2 first.

Boing posted:

Any GM would be totally fine with houseruling this :colbert:

Not a reason not to have it in the playbook!

vulgey posted:

Is there a playbook version of the v2 Shaman? I'm assuming the one in the OP is v1.

The OP links to the book-format class, not the playbook. Playbook is here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B30fzv28XdrYb0taaGZuVzNhcFk/edit?usp=sharing

Download it, gdocs hates fonts.

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.
Well, the logical thing to do would be to turn the system back to something more like default Apocalypse Word - players do 1/2/3 harm and have a wound track related to their class, call it their class's harm times three or four, maybe.

It'd remove a bunch of random rolling, which is an asset and a curse in this context. I dunno how far you want to go in that direction.

Ich
Feb 6, 2013

This Homicidal Hindu
will ruin your life.
...Okay, I'll get dragged into this... Just use AW style harm with class HP putting you at 9:00, and for the harm roll, use +con instead of +damage and it goes something like this:

When you suffer harm, roll+CON. On a 10+, subtract your class damage from the hit. On a 7-9, subtract half your class damage from the hit.
On a miss, eat that poo poo or as 7-9 AND the MC can choose 1:
• You lose your footing.
• You lose your grip on whatever you’re holding.
• You lose track of someone or something you’re attending to.
• You miss noticing something important.

[EDIT] OR what Desty said above.[/EDIT]

Okay, maybe that's getting too complicated...

Maybe you are working in the wrong direction. But, I think this is a useful exercise, because I think it shows that the current system works pretty well for what it does. If you want the numbers to mean more, do away with class load values and have Load = Strength. Have Wisdom = Sanity, or Mana. You wouldn't need to do that for every stat to have it quickly make sense.

I'm glad I played D&D and these 3-18 stats make sense to me! All this simplifying is getting really complicated!

Oo Koo
Nov 19, 2012

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Okay, several conversations with PixelScum and others have lead me to realise that I'm not overly fond of the D&D 3-18 stats in DW, and I've been giving getting rid of them some thought.

The long and short of it is that getting rid of stats and keeping just the mods breaks:

1) The rate at which your stat mods increase.

2) HP.

If you want to read poorly-written word vomit you can go here where I spell out my thought process, but essentially:

  • Instead of getting a new stat point every level, you get to bump up a stat mod every even level (2, 4, 6, 8, 10).

  • Instead of each class adding Constitution to a base HP number, HP is fixed and determined by guesstimating what a typical member of a given class would normally put into Constitution.

The HP fix is janky as all hell but gives the following list of HP values:

Seemingly completely arbitrary but based on my guesstimates:
Bard 18 HP; Cleric 21 HP; Druid 19 HP; Fighter 26 HP; Paladin 23 HP; Ranger 21 HP; Thief 18 HP; Wizard 16 HP; Shaman 21 HP.

Rounded to the nearest multiple of five (I like this less because it makes HP differences between classes even smaller):
Bard 20 HP; Cleric 20 HP; Druid 20 HP; Fighter 25 HP; Paladin 25 HP (poor Fighter, there goes your very slight toughness advantage); Thief 20 HP; Wizard 15 HP; Shaman 20 HP.

Alternatively, rounded to the nearest multiple of three would probably work as a compromise between those two options.

Ultimately, I think the whole exercise basically shows that trying to get rid of the stats in this way is pretty pointless. PixelScum is working on a tag-based approach which will probably work much better.


On an unrelated note, gnome, if you're still updating the Improved Fighter, why doesn't Signature Weapon have "Bow and Arrows/Rope Dart" as a look option and "Near" as a range option and why can't I be an awesome bow-using Fighter?

I don't like the suggested HP fix, it breaks the ability to create nonstandard character concepts like front line melee wizards. I know that every Dungeon World wizard I'm ever gonna make is going to start at 15 constitution and boost it to 18 if they ever make it to 10th level. But then again I just unreasonably love the constitution stat because it can make any class tough as hell, allows you to take hits for the rest of the party and allows you to bypass class damage restrictions at high levels when fighting defensively.

madadric
May 18, 2008

Such a BK.
So my wife was watching one of those Hoarder shows while I was sifting through Dungeon world tavern tonight, and...

Well.

vulgey
Aug 2, 2004

Covered in blood and without any clothes. Where is my mother?

madadric posted:

So my wife was watching one of those Hoarder shows while I was sifting through Dungeon world tavern tonight, and...

Well.

I almost feel sorry for the poor guy :(

slydingdoor
Oct 26, 2010

Are you in or are you out?
The 18 point ability score thing is harmless legacy stuff in DW, compared to other games that use it you get all the nostalgic D&D-feel with pretty much none of the crap. Everyone picks from the same array, they only rise and always at the same rate, +1 per level, and the mods can never break the top or bottom of the RNG scale thing (you can still roll a 10+ with the lowest mod, -1, and you can still roll a 6- with the highest, +3).

My roommate was real sore on systems mastery playing in a D&D 3.5 game after being introduced to tabletop RPGs with 4th. It took some time and effort to convey how DW is better and easier than both of them. His quick way of explaining it to people that I've adopted is to say, in DW, "I never have to fix the numbers."

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
I grew tired of the default array, so whenever I make a new Dungeon World character, I roll my stats.

PublicOpinion
Oct 21, 2010

Her style is new but the face is the same as it was so long ago...

PublicOpinion posted:

I decided to go ahead and buy this, when I get it (I went ahead and got a printed copy, I think I have to wait for someone to manually send me a pdf link?) I can do a short review for anyone on the fence. The author posted the playbooks at the link above, though, if anyone wants to take a look.

I never bought anything on Lulu before and didn't expect a fast turnaround, so I was surprised (and slightly disappointed--I was hoping that the parcel-box key in the mail meant Last Stand had shown up) when this arrived today. After emailing the author he did in fact send me a pdf version, but in the time between then and now I hadn't done more than skim it.



It's about a third the size of the core DW book.

TombsGrave
Feb 15, 2008

While I've mainly been enjoying the hell out of Fiasco lately, I've also been prodding at that psionics-handbook-for-DW idea. Here's what I have so far of the Psychic Warrior.

I'm thinking it's a front-line fighter like the, well, Fighter, and Paladin, thus the 10+Con HP and d10 damage die. The current idea for Sharpened Thoughts is to grant PWs good melee weapon coverage, so it's easier for them to commit to an unusual weapon for style purposes, easier to use unarmed strikes, or able to Jackie Chan trough myriad situational weapons.

Enlightened Strike and Perfection in Form are the meat and potatoes of the psychic-powers thing, the flavor I'm going for being Wuxia and The Matrix and such. I'm also trying to think of a fourth core move, though I think it might do well with three if I can't think of one (or you fine fellows don't suggest one).

I've hit a bit of a wall where I'm not sure where to take the 6-10th level moves, and what other "psychic warrior" archetypes I want to delve into. Ultimately, I think Multiclass Dabbler covers a lot of what I would otherwise be cramming in there--Multiclass Dabbling with Psion to get into Expanded Consciousness or Telekinetic Strike, with Fighter to get assorted bone-crunching attacks, Cleric to make like a 3.X gish Psion... you get the picture... and focusing on the wuxia-style combat the starting moves and most of the moves I've thought up so far cover.

As always, comment and critique away--it worked great for the psion.

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help
Sounds much more like a Monk than a Psion to me. You could probably get a lot of leverage out of the D&D monk abilities if you need inspiration?

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
TG, glad to see you working on more psionic classes. I'll actually read through the class probably this weekend, but a couple of surface-level observations:

It doesn't really feel right to give this dude 10/10 HP/damage. That's supposed to be the Fighter's shtick, in exchange for which the Fighter doesn't get to do anything very interesting. This dude feels more like he should be 8/8. Similarly, it seems like the +d4 damage/+d8 damage moves don't belong here and should be replaced with the ability to do stuff that's more out-there, as befits the PsyWar's psionic nature (especially as your version doesn't even require the PsyWar to behave in a specific way).

Also, good god does it ever need a different name than "Psychic Warrior;" that's always been absolutely terrible. It also sort of feels like it ought to differentiate itself more from the Battlemind in concept.

Boing posted:

Sounds much more like a Monk than a Psion to me. You could probably get a lot of leverage out of the D&D monk abilities if you need inspiration?

It's not a Psion, it's the Psychic Warrior.

TombsGrave's Psion is here.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Also, good god does it ever need a different name than "Psychic Warrior;" that's always been absolutely terrible. It also sort of feels like it ought to differentiate itself more from the Battlemind in concept.

There's always the Soulknife :v:

When you focus the totality of your psychic powers, roll +Int...

Flavivirus
Dec 14, 2011

The next stage of evolution.
Sage just posted a big breakdown of how DW is doing in the marketplace: http://www.latorra.org/2013/04/04/dungeon-worlds-first-5-months/

It's really interesting comparing that to Apocalypse World - DW's non-kickstarter sales in 5 months come to 2652, whereas AW's sales over 3 years are only 2830 (from here: http://www.lumpley.com/comment.php?entry=707). I can't help but wonder which was the bigger factor: the advertisement provided by the Kickstarter and the higher visibility and ease of use of DTRPG, or the more accessible D&D-like style.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
I would imagine it's both, to be honest. D&D will have driven adoption by making it easy to pitch to people, and the KS will have made enough of an initial splash to get the momentum it needed to keep on growing.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Flavivirus posted:

Sage just posted a big breakdown of how DW is doing in the marketplace: http://www.latorra.org/2013/04/04/dungeon-worlds-first-5-months/

It's really interesting comparing that to Apocalypse World - DW's non-kickstarter sales in 5 months come to 2652, whereas AW's sales over 3 years are only 2830 (from here: http://www.lumpley.com/comment.php?entry=707). I can't help but wonder which was the bigger factor: the advertisement provided by the Kickstarter and the higher visibility and ease of use of DTRPG, or the more accessible D&D-like style.

My guess is that while the other things are probably part of it, this right here is the biggest factor. Lotta gamers out there will buy something if you tell them it's a D&D-alike, even if they have no intention of actually using it. It helps that DW is a good game too, of course, but it being a familiar pitch ("It's like D&D, but...") is doubtlessly helping it achieve a good word-of-mouth to purchase ratio.

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help

Lemon Curdistan posted:

It's not a Psion, it's the Psychic Warrior.

TombsGrave's Psion is here.

Sorry, I meant that. Point is I don't really get where the psychic comes into it, and you could just as easily call it a Monk and it would be fine. It fits better with the D&D-esque aesthetic of DW, too.

TombsGrave
Feb 15, 2008

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Observations and such

While 10/d10 is definitely the fighter's claim to fame, the paladin also has 10/d10 for HP/damage and can do a variety of non-combat stuff in addition to being a powerhouse. I suppose it'll fluctuate more as I come down to the line.

That said, the fighter and paladin also don't have any significant ranged support other than "if you pick up and use a bow you're gonna be hitting pretty hard with that d10," while the d8 ranger gets a lot more love in that department. From what I can tell that's deliberate, making melee damage the most dangerous period while Volley and its damage is slightly weaker to give melee types a chance to close in and making ranged combatants have to think about what they're doing, not just plink away invincibly. PWs thus far have great range, and that's been a concern so far. The throwing move they no longer have essentially gave them every range from hand to near so long as they had something to toss at people, which immediately leapt out at me as too good after I wrote it.

And, yeah, there's that concern about the Battlemind. I'm torn between not stepping on its toes and just pretending it doesn't exist for the purposes of the PW--after all, neither are core classes and gamers are free to choose which one they like better and roll with it. Only so many ways to do the wuxia thing, I suppose. Which leads to another thing.

Actually whittling down what a PW can do from its inspiration list (assorted wuxia, The Matrix [a kind of wuxia], Earthbound's Ness and Poo, River Tam, the Jedi, the original Psychic Warrior) has been a hell of a thing. Flat-out giving them Multiclass Dabbler cleared a lot of the air--so now they can pick up any number of moves to flesh out their abilities (Divine Protection, Exterminatus, Shapechange, Duelist's Parry, and the Psion's Expanded Consciousness and Telekinetic Strike all come to mind and a form of each were all on the PW's 2-5 at one point). Might even extend that to Soul Shatter/Soul Sever, though a part of me nags about not including a damage-boosting move on a dedicated brawler, which includes every core class expected to hit things. And so on. And so on.

Clearly, this is my punishment for adapting a DnD class with no or few inspirations outside of a purely mechanical "but what if you could think and hit?" proposition. Ah, well, took the PW 6-7 versions to get right. I got time.

Boing posted:

Monk vs. Psychic Warrior

A fair point. Right now it's basically a different implementation of the monk. The idea I had going in was that the other classes use incredible but comparatively mundane skill to achieve feats of battle, whereas the psychic warrior casually sidesteps conventional physics the way a rogue might toss pepper bombs in someone's eye or the fighter sweep someone off their feet with a scythe. Right now it's got some funky special abilities but not too many. Perhaps that's where I should be focusing...

Also, a namechange from Psychic Warrior is... well, probably going to happen, but I'm sticking with PW until I think of something better. For reference, other psychic classes I'm planning are the Fury (pyro/cryo/etc.kinesis), the Poltergeist (telekinesis, and based a bit on the Wilder), and the Telepath (also in need of a better name, and just what it sounds like). The current pitch I have is that the Psion and Psychic Warrior are general-issue psychics that could easily fit into a DW game, while the others would either be one-of-a-kind freaks or the replacement for conventional magic classes in a psychic-heavy game. But I'm just blathering now.

Holy poo poo that was a lot of words.

TombsGrave fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Apr 5, 2013

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
I wasn't kidding about the Soulknife either, by the way. I don't think you necessarily want to rejigger your playbook to adopt that as a new core move since you seem to be angling more for a wuxia/Jedi kind of deal, but if you're looking for advanced moves then perhaps something like a "build your own psychic weapon projection" similar to the Fighter's Signature Weapon could be something to look into. Give it a funky list of descriptors, let the player assemble it out of a couple of tags, then give it some cool properties to choose from like "targets struck by your mindblade experience nightmarish visions of their worst fears" or "enemies struck by your psychic weapon deal -1d4/1d6 damage forward" or something.

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Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
Grim Portents #1 is out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5j40i3bi565c2v/Grim%20Portents%201%20-%20Larger.pdf

The theme for issue #2 is "the Wine-Dark Sea" and subs close in 17 days: http://livinglibre1.wordpress.com/2013/04/06/download-grim-portents-issue-1-here-submissions-open-for-issue-2-theme-the-wine-dark-sea/

e;

TombsGrave posted:

While 10/d10 is definitely the fighter's claim to fame, the paladin also has 10/d10 for HP/damage and can do a variety of non-combat stuff in addition to being a powerhouse.

Yeah, this is because DW suffers from the Curse of D&D in this regard and the Fighter is a crap class. Every other class gets interesting things, even the Thief if you count poisons; Scent of Blood wins the prize for worst move in the book, and the Fighter is just generally super boring beyond Signature Weapon. Why do you think we ended up with the Improved Fighter?

TombsGrave posted:

From what I can tell that's deliberate, making melee damage the most dangerous period while Volley and its damage is slightly weaker to give melee types a chance to close in and making ranged combatants have to think about what they're doing, not just plink away invincibly. PWs thus far have great range, and that's been a concern so far. The throwing move they no longer have essentially gave them every range from hand to near so long as they had something to toss at people, which immediately leapt out at me as too good after I wrote it.

Worth contemplating: Volley and H&S rely on different stats, and the PsyWar is going to want a mental stat as well. I think making the "I can attack at Hand, Close and Near ranges" the PsyWar's thing is neat, and would work fine with d8 damage. Just don't give them a way to ignore physical stat requirements (i.e. attacking with Int/Wis).

TombsGrave posted:

Might even extend that to Soul Shatter/Soul Sever, though a part of me nags about not including a damage-boosting move on a dedicated brawler, which includes every core class expected to hit things. And so on. And so on.

It's not including a damage-boosting move that's the problem, it's including a condition-free damage boost that's taken straight from the Fighter (and the Fighter's is supposed to have a fictional condition - if you stop being merciless, you're not meant to get the bonus). Make it bonus damage that applies only in certain, thematic situations and you're gold.

TombsGrave posted:

Also, a namechange from Psychic Warrior is... well, probably going to happen, but I'm sticking with PW until I think of something better.


I really like the idea of calling this one the Soulknife, plus Kai's other suggestions. It fits.

TombsGrave posted:

For reference, other psychic classes I'm planning are the Fury (pyro/cryo/etc.kinesis), the Poltergeist (telekinesis, and based a bit on the Wilder), and the Telepath (also in need of a better name, and just what it sounds like). The current pitch I have is that the Psion and Psychic Warrior are general-issue psychics that could easily fit into a DW game, while the others would either be one-of-a-kind freaks or the replacement for conventional magic classes in a psychic-heavy game. But I'm just blathering now.

At least those will be easier to design since you can make them reflavours rather than full classes.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Apr 5, 2013

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