Dungeon World Thread (Messy, Forceful, Stunning)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeon World Thread (Messy, Forceful, Stunning)

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

BitD is actually set in the same "universe", even.

Yeah, and it looks like one of the upcoming "hacks" for it is Ghost Lines but using the BitD mechanics.

In fact, I think if I were to make my own little hack for this Hyper Light Drifter RPG I want to run, I'd skew towards something using BitD-like mechanics, were players take points in specific actions rather than stats. I'd want to find a way to make it a class-less system, I think, but I'm not sure how I'd work in special abilities if I did. And part of the thing with BitD is that it's very much built around playing a bunch of scoundrels in a very specific city, so it would take some doing (maybe less than I imagine) to reconfigure it into something appropriate for dungeon crawling/ruins exploring-type action.

Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Apr 6, 2016

# ? Apr 6, 2016 15:54

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 11:59

Fenarisk: Oct 27, 2005

The only thing not great in BitD is the health/damage system, although I would have to dig into the final copy to see an elegant way to fix it.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 16:11

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

What I've done with BitD's damage system is adjust recovery times. In my game, it's a lot easier to recover from level 2 harm than it is RAW, especially because level 2 harm has such a nasty drawback (-1d on all actions). It's only a four-segment clock to recover if your worst harm is level 2; it's still eight-segment if your worst harm is level 3, because that's the "you got shot in the loving lung" harm level. Maybe the intention is that each player should play multiple characters, but my group doesn't want to do that, so I'm comfortable tweaking it to be a bit more forgiving for them.

It's not a damage system that would be appropriate for "heroic" dungeon crawling, though. Gritty, Darkest Dungeon-style dungeon crawling, sure, but not D&D-style heroic action. I'm probably going to do something like a more forgiving Savage Worlds health system, where you have like three health blocks. Lose all three and you take a serious wound, which has a penalty and which you need to use downtime actions to recover. But if you get to your downtime and have only taken "health" damage and not a wound that just goes away for free. Something like that.

I'll probably also replace the Stress/Trauma system with something else for dungeon crawling, too, though I do like having some sort of psychological aspect to character mechanics.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 16:17

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Fenarisk posted:

I want to bring this up in earnest from the Kickstarter thread, and I figured here might be the best place for discussion.

A lot of people are saying PbtA games have evolved, which they have. How would people change or even rewrite dungeon world to be a "better" hack, while still emulating that old school dnd or fantasy trope feel?

One option would be to give each class an ability to emulate old saving throws, rather than Defy Danger. It would need to be carefully worded so that characters aren't avoiding everything the way that INT and DEX allow you to dodge everything from lightning bolts to leprosy. For example "When you grasp at, or dodge to avoid, the stuff of the Prime Material Plane, roll +Thief") perhaps, to capture grabbing at ledges when a trap is sprung, picking pockets, or dodging an arrow headed for your knee.

If you don't have a class ability to avoid that kind of danger, you're at +0 unless you have an item or enchantment that tells you otherwise.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 17:05

Boing: Jul 12, 2005; trapped in custom title factory, send help

Harrow posted:

What I've done with BitD's damage system is adjust recovery times. In my game, it's a lot easier to recover from level 2 harm than it is RAW, especially because level 2 harm has such a nasty drawback (-1d on all actions).

It's actually not as bad as this (just to clarify) - I'm pretty sure the rules say you only get -1d to actions "for which that harm applies". If you've got a broken leg, you're gonna have a hard time prowling around rooftops and climbing walls, but you can probably pick a lock or summon a ghost just fine, especially if you justify it well.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 18:17

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Boing posted:

It's actually not as bad as this (just to clarify) - I'm pretty sure the rules say you only get -1d to actions "for which that harm applies". If you've got a broken leg, you're gonna have a hard time prowling around rooftops and climbing walls, but you can probably pick a lock or summon a ghost just fine, especially if you justify it well.

Oh, okay. That's actually how I've been playing it because I couldn't find in the rules where it said one way or the other, so it's good to know I've accidentally been playing RAW.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 18:25

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

While we're talking about PbtA hack stuff, I talked with some friends over lunch and now I'm trying to hash out some kind of weird, unholy hybrid turn-based combat system. I jotted some notes down over in the Game Writing Workshop thread if anyone feels like brainstorming with me: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3581530&pagenumber=28#post458376558

# ? Apr 6, 2016 18:57

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Fenarisk posted:

I want to bring this up in earnest from the Kickstarter thread, and I figured here might be the best place for discussion.

A lot of people are saying PbtA games have evolved, which they have. How would people change or even rewrite dungeon world to be a "better" hack, while still emulating that old school dnd or fantasy trope feel?

Easy:

Scrap HP damage and damage dice. Replace them with fixed damage and either a more narrative damage system (harm clock, condition track, etc.)
Two options on classes: throw out the D&D classes and replace them with ones that model the types of characters (chaotic neutral crazies, lawful goody two-shoes) or keep the D&D classes, but reduce their number of moves and make their moves focus on narrative impact, not what they did in D&D.
gently caress the six attributes: PbtA really should only have 4-5 and they don't push the narrative. Also, only the modifiers: none of the 3-18 bullshit.
Complete overhaul of the moves. Especially the battle moves which are too piecemeal.
Overhaul of the bond system to have more weight
Either throw out alignment and replace it with something more meaningful or make alignment cosmic like in OD&D and have it have more barings
Throw out race all together

Those are just the first ones that come to mind.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 19:07

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Covok posted:

Complete overhaul of the moves. Especially the battle moves which are too piecemeal.

Overhaul of the bond system to have more weight

I'm especially interested in these two. Would you refocus combat moves on what the PC is trying to accomplish rather than just being a "try to do damage" move, maybe? Sort of like Apocalypse World: seize by force can inflict harm on the target, but that isn't the stated goal of the move, because there has to be a narrative something that you're seizing. Whereas Dungeon World has both Hack and Slash and Volley to function as "do damage to an enemy" moves, just in different ways.

Also, I'm curious about different ways to handle the bond system. I always enjoyed the idea of it, but I could never really motivate my players to really care about it.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 19:18

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Covok posted:

Would totally play a "serious" game of Dungeon Bastards.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 19:25

Fenarisk: Oct 27, 2005

Covok posted:

Easy:
[*]Overhaul of the bond system to have more weight
[*]Either throw out alignment and replace it with something more meaningful or make alignment cosmic like in OD&D and have it have more barings
[*]Throw out race all together
[/list]

Those are just the first ones that come to mind.

I guess I'm looking at the revised playbooks I did and later DW third party stuff because I've always replaced those with background and drive anyway, which I think are great.

In regards to bonds I don't know anything about "strings" from other PbtA hacks, maybe those could work.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 19:46

Arashiofordo3: Nov 5, 2010; Warning, Internet
may prove lethal.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Would totally play a "serious" game of Dungeon Bastards.

Yes, God yes. Dungeon Bastards is a wonderfully straightforward system, with some great crunch to its moves.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 19:58

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Harrow posted:

I'm especially interested in these two. Would you refocus combat moves on what the PC is trying to accomplish rather than just being a "try to do damage" move, maybe? Sort of like Apocalypse World: seize by force can inflict harm on the target, but that isn't the stated goal of the move, because there has to be a narrative something that you're seizing. Whereas Dungeon World has both Hack and Slash and Volley to function as "do damage to an enemy" moves, just in different ways.

Also, I'm curious about different ways to handle the bond system. I always enjoyed the idea of it, but I could never really motivate my players to really care about it.

It depends. Likely influenced by people bringing up Dungeon Bastards, I could go for a macro-intent approach.

To take an example from Dungeon Bastards:

My Drunken Ramblings posted:

Ain�t You Tough poo poo
When you fight someone who ain't a punkass, roll Fists competitively. Spend your successes to narrate the following throughout the scene:
� The fight is loving sick and everyone is impressed.
� You get their respect.
� You leave them dead.
� They give you some crap you like or want.
� They let some poo poo slip that they shouldn't have.
...until you spend all your successes or are satisfied with the results.

Time To Kick Some rear end
When you beat the poo poo out of some punks, roll Fists passively. Spend your successes to narrate the following throughout the scene:
� You kick all their heads in.
� None of them get away.
� The whole thing makes them look like little wimps.
� They don�t even touch you.
� You keep one as a prisoner.
...until you spend all your successes or are satisfied with the results.

Now, this runs off a die-pool, not a 2d6 system, but, as you can see, it defines the move by its meta-importance (someone important vs someone who isn't), it allows for multiples ways of enforcing your intent (both physical and social), it reinforces the mood (in this case, drunken debauchery and violence), and it resolves an entire scene with only one roll of the dice (a design goal).

Alternatively, I could go for what I'm doing in Friendship, Effort, Victory which is adapted from World Wide Wrestling. Battles aren't resolved in one move in this approach, but the separation is intent based and push the drama. The main battle move controls the level of tension surrounding the fight, can open oppurtunites to talk your opponent down/change their beliefs, allows for team-ups and non-combatants to take narrative control, and other such things. It is more piecemeal, but constantly pushes the themes of the emulated genre (shueisha battle comics) and constantly push forward the tension and stakes.

As for the bond system, I'd have to say that I really like the idea of strings from Monster Hearts. They work really well if I go for the stereotypical, AD&D "no one trusts the thief, everyone is a murderhobo" style. If I wanted to do what I was going for with Yokai Blade (a project I have on hiatus which was trying to push the "we started out as a bunch of people who hated each other with a common enemy to a team" type of fantasy stories), I might actually try to adapt Mask's take on strings: where they can be used to permanently alter player stats.

Fenarisk posted:

I guess I'm looking at the revised playbooks I did and later DW third party stuff because I've always replaced those with background and drive anyway, which I think are great.

In regards to bonds I don't know anything about "strings" from other PbtA hacks, maybe those could work.

Yeah, I know most people who do DW stuff do that by default now, but I still need to put it in my list of proposed changes from the base.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Would totally play a "serious" game of Dungeon Bastards.

Arashiofordo3 posted:

Yes, God yes. Dungeon Bastards is a wonderfully straightforward system, with some great crunch to its moves.

I'm really glad both of you guys enjoy the game. If I did use the Radiant engine (I called it that because I got tired feeling obligated to mention that I was inspired by an Exalted Hack called Radiant), I'd probably layer on a class system to the engine with each class giving three alterations to the basic moves that are only true for your class. I'd probably also need to put in advancement. I did experiment with elements like that in Phoeneix Rising, my NaGaDeMon entry, but I have no idea if that's any good.

What I'm getting at here is, as people who like the game, does either of that sound like good ideas?

Also, I find it funny that I'm talking about this as if I'm not swamped with RL stuff and already have a huge trpg project that still needs finishing and playtesting.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 20:34

Blasphemeral: Jul 26, 2012; Three mongrel men in exchange for a party member? I found that one in the Faustian Bargain Bin.

I generally agree with the points that I've excluded here,

Covok posted:

Easy:
...

Two options on classes: throw out the D&D classes and replace them with ones that model the types of characters (chaotic neutral crazies, lawful goody two-shoes) or keep the D&D classes, but reduce their number of moves and make their moves focus on narrative impact, not what they did in D&D.

...

Complete overhaul of the moves. Especially the battle moves which are too piecemeal.

...

... but, wait, you want the game to have fewer moves? Why?
Having more moves allows for more situations where a more specific and therefore customized set of options can take over. Ideally, we should aim to have anything that's important to a playbook be a move. Additionally, with fewer moves, you have less options for breadth in advancement. If peoples' only options on level-up are "make the numbers go up," you're gonna have a boring time until the math breaks completely. And if your response to this is to say "get rid of level-up mechanics," what kind of advancement would you have, then? Only narrative advancement? That threatens to favor the players who are more assertive with the story.

Covok posted:

[Dungeon Bastards Moves]

These seem like they'd entirely eliminate combat scenes. You'd just have a roll, summarize what happened, and move on. That's kinda... boring? I mean, if you don't like combat I guess it gets around that thing you don't like, but it's not cinematic at all...? Am I misunderstanding?

# ? Apr 6, 2016 21:41

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Blasphemeral posted:

I generally agree with the points that I've excluded here,

... but, wait, you want the game to have fewer moves? Why?
Having more moves allows for more situations where a more specific and therefore customized set of options can take over. Ideally, we should aim to have anything that's important to a playbook be a move. Additionally, with fewer moves, you have less options for breadth in advancement. If peoples' only options on level-up are "make the numbers go up," you're gonna have a boring time until the math breaks completely. And if your response to this is to say "get rid of level-up mechanics," what kind of advancement would you have, then? Only narrative advancement? That threatens to favor the players who are more assertive with the story.

These seem like they'd entirely eliminate combat scenes. You'd just have a roll, summarize what happened, and move on. That's kinda... boring? I mean, if you don't like combat I guess it gets around that thing you don't like, but it's not cinematic at all...? Am I misunderstanding?

XP on a failure already greatly favors the players who are more assertive with the story, and I have seen players volunteer their characters for everything with the hope of getting XP. Getting rid of advancement doesn't make that worse.

I don't agree with fewer moves overall, and I am not convinced you need to throw out D&D classes (though you could, and replace them with different kinds of adventurers). If you really are trying to capture the archetypes of D&D as it was played back in the day, starting with those rather than what was in the books would be a good start.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 22:02

Arashiofordo3: Nov 5, 2010; Warning, Internet
may prove lethal.

Blasphemeral posted:

These seem like they'd entirely eliminate combat scenes. You'd just have a roll, summarize what happened, and move on. That's kinda... boring? I mean, if you don't like combat I guess it gets around that thing you don't like, but it's not cinematic at all...? Am I misunderstanding?

The thing that you're missing is that, Dungeon Bastards is a beer and pretzles kinda game. It's fast, and wacky, and crude. You don't have TIME to get bogged down in a long drawn out combat. So instead you get to control the outcome, the fight description itself is left to the player. That way they can make it as cool and interesting as they want, in the same kinda was as Katanas and trenchcoats, but you're exposing on how awesome and mighty you are instead.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 22:54

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

When it comes to classes, fewer and more substantial is really for the best. DW has 10 more moves per playbook than any other pbta and it really contributes to a lot of its problems: having so many leads to many of them being too specialized and unimportant, ironically makes the base classes more same-y as most advancement moves are small bonuses to their required starters instead of choosing from a short list of individualizung moves, etc.

Look at other pbta games: fewer, but more impactful really works out better.

Also, moves really aren't the only way to individualize a playbook. Outside the obivious stat increases and specific other playbook moves, you have things like Mask's moment of truth. In other words, game specfic mechanics unlocked through advancement.

As for battles, DWs system is very piecemeal and doesn't take full advantage of the engine: this is where the GM usually has to really play with things to keep it dynamic.

World Wide Wrestling RPG manages to really drive things with a more metaapproach to fights that drives player engagement.

AW 2nd edition does it through specialized moves based on the nature of the fight.

There are other methods, but these both end up more engaging in play.

As for the Dungeon Bastards comment, it's a lighter game that was made for one-shots. Just like its writing, its big on description driving things due to time constraints which is also why its a one roll to a scene thing. If I used the Radiant engine, I'd have to adjust that if I don't go beer and pretzel with it.

I really brought it up more to discuss structure behind its design, not its specfic implementation.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 23:09

gnome7: Oct 21, 2010; Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??

On the topic of other fantasy PbtA games, Fellowship is now for sale. I was going to announce that in here anyway, since it started as a Dungeon World hack, but its nice to be a little on topic.

If you want my opinion on how I'd improve Dungeon World, well. There it is.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 00:49

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Covok posted:

I'm really glad both of you guys enjoy the game. If I did use the Radiant engine (I called it that because I got tired feeling obligated to mention that I was inspired by an Exalted Hack called Radiant), I'd probably layer on a class system to the engine with each class giving three alterations to the basic moves that are only true for your class. I'd probably also need to put in advancement. I did experiment with elements like that in Phoeneix Rising, my NaGaDeMon entry, but I have no idea if that's any good.

What I'm getting at here is, as people who like the game, does either of that sound like good ideas?

I hate to potentially put pressure on you, but yeah, both of those sound like good ideas. "Fighting" is a single roll, but your class determines how you do it.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 06:28

zarathud: Feb 24, 2013; Hail Eris!
All Hail DISCORDIA!

Since it is 2+ years overdue, it seems pretty clear that Pirate World is not going to happen. Some of the UK folks are talking in the KS Comments about taking legal action via small claims court.

Unfortunately, I am outside the UK so legal action is not really possible for me. Just so I feel like I did something in response to someone bilking me out of my money, I have been planning to report him to http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/. I suggest everyone else who lost out do the same.

To that end, I have started gathering whatever info I can find on the author , but am coming up empty on locating current contact info (address, email, phone #). Perhaps some of our friends in the UK might have a local method for getting such info. If anyone want to collaborate on a report to Action Fraud, feel free to message me.

zarathud fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Apr 13, 2016

# ? Apr 13, 2016 03:40

Ettin: Oct 2, 2010

Hey, folks. I feel for everyone who's been waiting for Pirate World, but don't ask Something Awful for help doxxing someone. Crowdsourcing a hunt for personal info is a bad idea that goes to poo poo fast. I mean, when I clicked that doc someone had started noting relatives.

Posting about Pirate World and its creator is fine but don't post his personal info or ways to find it.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 12:01

zarathud: Feb 24, 2013; Hail Eris!
All Hail DISCORDIA!

Ettin posted:

Hey, folks. I feel for everyone who's been waiting for Pirate World, but don't ask Something Awful for help doxxing someone. Crowdsourcing a hunt for personal info is a bad idea that goes to poo poo fast. I mean, when I clicked that doc someone had started noting relatives.

Posting about Pirate World and its creator is fine but don't post his personal info or ways to find it.

I took the doc down. I had never even heard the term doxxing before. If anyone wants to collaborate offline on reporting him to Action Fraud, please message.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 13:22

LordZoric: Aug 30, 2012; Let's wish for a space whale!

I am incredibly bummed at Pirate World never delivering, especially the Luncheon World part of it since my co-workers and I have been trying to get a lunchtime RPG going for a while now. I just wish The Supreme Court would release whatever he actually got done and call it a day.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 14:13

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

On a less 'doxxing people' note, can someone recommend a set of say, 8 classes that will work well for total novice players, i.e. never played RPGs before that I know of, but 'want to play D&D'? (I've persuaded them that playing ACTUAL D&D is dumb, but we might play DW, Fiasco, Or Dread, and I wanna be prepped for DW, as I suspect I'll wind up running, not that I've done so terribly successfully in the past

I've a starting point planned with some plot hooks to dangle if no-one else has ideas (not that there's anything attached to the hooks yet) but I'm a little concerned about making this work properly.

Thanks

# ? Apr 13, 2016 14:46

Fenarisk: Oct 27, 2005

Not to toot my horn but my revised core classes are a good start at making the core ones a little better and also fit into the usual fantasy/d&d classes.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 14:50

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Will take another look ta.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 15:22

slydingdoor: Oct 26, 2010; Are you in or are you out?

Someone asked a similar question earlier.

slydingdoor posted:

If you bring homebrew or IW books, don't bring any core ones, and vice versa, because they're starkly different and will stick out like sore thumbs in the wrong type of game.

[...] If you pitched old school D&D or 5e with resource management and dying all the time, to newer players slash ones more familiar with and nostalgic for old , the more you want to lean towards core, because they're easy to play for those new players and definitely scratch that nostalgia itch.

If they're more into IW superhero games and more complex prestige class, paragon/epic level 3-4e they are, the more you want to stay out of cramped dungeons and let them fly around or be able to taunt monsters with the homebrew and IW classes. I can't really speak to that type of game so I'll say my piece about old school.

When it comes down to it, the core classes are perfect for old school D&D players looking to see what these newfangled storygames are about, or just want to relive those days, or storygamers who want to play a silly game of D&D.

The quick and dirty answer for what to bring is if you have 4 or fewer players is keep the Fighter, Thief, Cleric, and Wizard, because they're the stereotypical party.

If you're running a oneshot or know the campaign will be short, time is precious, definitely don't bring any 3rd party classes, even ones made for Dungeon World ("Improved [Class]), and ditch the Druid, Ranger, maybe Paladin and definitely the Barbarian. (Also make leveling faster xp-wise, old school players love progression). If you're running a longer one, you can bring "Improved [Class]" books if that's all you bring.

If you want reasons for the class restrictions: 3rd party: leveling up takes longer for homebrews table-time-wise because their advanced moves have more complex triggers and bonuses, tend to introduce more mechanics, and the core books have simple bonuses to preexisting, usually basic moves, and 3rd party books tend to be more powerful than the core classes, and there aren't enough of them to cover all the basic classes, especially ones without freeform spellcasting, which will be too broad a mechanic, take too long to adjudicate, and are too much storygame and power for old school or new players. Druid: Wildshape makes the first take the longest turns because you have to generate moves for them, and is more likely to jump the rails and make you have to pause the game to figure out how to deal with that because animals can do things people can't. Ranger and maybe Paladin: the former takes the longest to generate because of the Animal Companion and their moves probably won't come into play enough, the Paladin probably won't get to change their Quest and it might take a while to figure out if your pitch had a less specific plot, meaning "Let's play some old school D&D" vs. describing the campaign or module or setting. Finally, the Barbarian has a racial move that makes them start every session with "blah blah my people, my character" which will probably take time and mess up your pacing, and they get the first XP for that, which will piss off old school D&D lovers who are a little competitive about that kind of stuff.

Bonds: You can tell them to make their own special bonds, but that will likely make character generation take longer, telegraph fewer obvious story hooks to make your job easier, and might make people attached to their or one another's characters. The core are totally fine, they evoke the "feel" of playing an old school game in your youth with super stereotypical, disposable characters, with stereotypical personal sidequests. The Fighter one about making someone "hard like me" in particular is always good for getting people in that juvenile mood.

Same thing with Alignments vs drives. Alignments evoke the "feel" of "I remember these drat things: everyone 'needed' to follow them to get 'roleplaying' XP to level as fast as possible, but they usually just got them killed." If you try to import drives it won't work, they are more about giving nuance to the character and propelling them towards growth and personal goals in a longer, broader campaign, they tend not to get those characters killed either.

Finally, if you're using the SRD, note that the Arcane Duelist is not core. Its for a more 3.5, prestige class kind of game.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 17:02

Blasphemeral: Jul 26, 2012; Three mongrel men in exchange for a party member? I found that one in the Faustian Bargain Bin.

slydingdoor posted:

Someone asked a similar question earlier.

himself posted:

That's a whole lot of words written about a storygame just to tell everyone that you don't like your peas and carrots to touch.

I've run a number of games with mixed playbooks. It works fine. It's just good to remember that the core books are simpler and some books wont work with some players--just like some classes in more traditional RPGs won't work with some players. That's all.

Blasphemeral fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Apr 13, 2016

# ? Apr 13, 2016 17:31

slydingdoor: Oct 26, 2010; Are you in or are you out?

I think "none of my players cared so it doesn't matter, period, here are some rules of thumb" and "my players thought it mattered in these ways for these reasons" can coexist side by side.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 18:28

Demon_Corsair: Mar 22, 2004; Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

On a related note, I was thinking about running a one shot for some friends, can any one recommend a good pre gen adventure?

I was thinking about grabbing an old AD&D adventure and going from there. Had any one made any good pre gens for DW?

# ? Apr 13, 2016 18:59

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

Demon_Corsair posted:

On a related note, I was thinking about running a one shot for some friends, can any one recommend a good pre gen adventure?

I was thinking about grabbing an old AD&D adventure and going from there. Had any one made any good pre gens for DW?

Slave Pits of Drahzu is the best.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3441990/dungeon_world_two_hour_demo_2012.pdf

# ? Apr 13, 2016 19:08

potatocubed: Jul 26, 2012; *rathian noises*

Demon_Corsair posted:

On a related note, I was thinking about running a one shot for some friends, can any one recommend a good pre gen adventure?

I was thinking about grabbing an old AD&D adventure and going from there. Had any one made any good pre gens for DW?

~~*cough*selfpromotion*cough*~~

Oh, actually, scratch that -- I was so busy self promoting I didn't notice you were just running a one-shot.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 20:12

RandomPauI: Nov 24, 2006; Grimey Drawer

I'm making a level three character. I have permission from the GM to call him a security consultant. He might get paid to tell people how to stay safe from criminals but that basically requires a lot of the same features and attributes as a criminal anyways.

He was just going to be a re-skinned thief. But then I got to thinking about how some basic and advanced class features don't fit that well with someone who needs to appear legit. Even if it's only to avoid the professional and personal consequences of getting caught.

One problem is the backstab trait. It feels at odds with a character who is making it a point to obey the law and to appear honorable.

The poison traits are also problematic. I can keep them as a whole and try to figure out a way for him to develop aerosol sleep sprays and irritant sprays and smoke sprays. Or I can replace it with something else that'd fit. But what?

What does the thread think?

# ? May 15, 2016 09:06

NinjaDebugger: Apr 22, 2008

RandomPauI posted:

I'm making a level three character. I have permission from the GM to call him a security consultant. He might get paid to tell people how to stay safe from criminals but that basically requires a lot of the same features and attributes as a criminal anyways.

He was just going to be a re-skinned thief. But then I got to thinking about how some basic and advanced class features don't fit that well with someone who needs to appear legit. Even if it's only to avoid the professional and personal consequences of getting caught.

One problem is the backstab trait. It feels at odds with a character who is making it a point to obey the law and to appear honorable.

The poison traits are also problematic. I can keep them as a whole and try to figure out a way for him to develop aerosol sleep sprays and irritant sprays and smoke sprays. Or I can replace it with something else that'd fit. But what?

What does the thread think?

Replace it with the walker from Inverse World, maybe?

# ? May 15, 2016 13:05

slydingdoor: Oct 26, 2010; Are you in or are you out?

RandomPauI posted:

I'm making a level three character. I have permission from the GM to call him a security consultant. He might get paid to tell people how to stay safe from criminals but that basically requires a lot of the same features and attributes as a criminal anyways.

He was just going to be a re-skinned thief. But then I got to thinking about how some basic and advanced class features don't fit that well with someone who needs to appear legit. Even if it's only to avoid the professional and personal consequences of getting caught.

One problem is the backstab trait. It feels at odds with a character who is making it a point to obey the law and to appear honorable.

The poison traits are also problematic. I can keep them as a whole and try to figure out a way for him to develop aerosol sleep sprays and irritant sprays and smoke sprays. Or I can replace it with something else that'd fit. But what?

What does the thread think?

Thief is appropriate for a character who is hired to infiltrate places so that they might improve their security. Be Human. Get a Stun weapon to Backstab with, and just don't choose to deal extra damage. Take Oil of Tagit and feed it to guard dogs. Flexible Morals is perfect: you'll probably want to fool Evil people and Good people into thinking you're not Neutral at times. Tricks of the Trade and Trap Expert are good. Rewrite a couple bonds.

For advanced moves I could see the following fitting with the concept. Backstabbing and Poisoning aren't the focus of the character, and there are enough moves for that to be just fine.

Cautious, because you break into places and slip by alarms and such.
Connections, because to show people what kind of special equipment real criminals have, you need to obtain such things yourself. Like the thermal lance from Thief (1981).
Shoot First, because criminals who go straight tend to leave their old life with real or imagined debts. Greedos will be coming for you.
Underdog, because after the conga line of Greedos keep walking into your gun, eventually they'll team up.
Wealth and Taste, because one of the constant problems adventurers run into is selling stuff they find in a dungeon delve. God knows there's a lot of security stuff in there. Trap mechanisms, silent alarms, magic locks and lockpicks. Your guy could actually sell them.

For the high level advanced moves: The upgrades to Cautious and Underdog, Evasion, Escape Route, Disguise, Heist.

# ? May 15, 2016 16:51

neaden: Nov 4, 2012; A changer of ways

So, this is a thing: Space Wurm vs Moonicorn by Johnstone Metzger. If you're not familiar with him he's written Adventures on a Dungeon Planet and multiple adventures which I've enjoyed. That said this seems a bit strange for me, though I haven't read Monsterhearts or Second Skin so maybe I'm just missing the references because the playbooks don't seem to mesh that well, or really seem very dungeon-worldy vs using Monsterhearts or another system. On the other hand I really do like science-fantasy and sword and planet so I might pick it up.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 23:14

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

Holy crap Sage and Adam just sent out the artless-content-complete versions of Juntu's Ice Hell and Inglorious to backers. They're not Far West late, but they were getting there.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 00:22

Fenarisk: Oct 27, 2005

Evil Mastermind posted:

Holy crap Sage and Adam just sent out the artless-content-complete versions of Juntu's Ice Hell and Inglorious to backers. They're not Far West late, but they were getting there.

About two years two late but appreciated!

Now if only the scamming goon who got 10k for pirate world would at least release the rules he finished/sent to the printers.

Edit: Inglorious is not good, not a single advancement/evolution of classes or mechanics that so many hacks and new playbooks have improved upon, instead relying on the old lame "+1 forward oh boy" or "roll damage twice and take the best".

Fenarisk fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jun 14, 2016

# ? Jun 14, 2016 01:38

zarathud: Feb 24, 2013; Hail Eris!
All Hail DISCORDIA!

Fenarisk posted:

Now if only the scamming goon who got 10k for pirate world would at least release the rules he finished/sent to the printers.

I went ahead and reported him to http://www.actionfraud.police.uk with what info I had available. If anyone needs help with that or wants to reference my Crime Report Number in their report, please let me know.

For those in UK and other EU countries someone over on the Campaign page posted the following links that allow you to make a European Payment Order whether the other person or business admits owing the money at :
https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_european_payment_order-41-en.do

In the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/make-money-claim-online

# ? Jun 14, 2016 15:25

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 11:59

LordZoric: Aug 30, 2012; Let's wish for a space whale!

Fenarisk posted:

Edit: Inglorious is not good, not a single advancement/evolution of classes or mechanics that so many hacks and new playbooks have improved upon, instead relying on the old lame "+1 forward oh boy" or "roll damage twice and take the best".

I'm really not surprised, but I am a bit disappointed that Sage and Adam didn't try to innovate after all the good work that's been done to improve on Dungeon World since it released. IIRC, they've not once acknowledged that Inverse World is a thing. At least we have Fellowship now.

# ? Jun 14, 2016 16:28

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeon World Thread (Messy, Forceful, Stunning)

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