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We honestly won't know how to receive them until they are finished. A good three movies with one mixed one would be a pretty good run.
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May 3, 2016 19:21
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CharlestheHammer posted:Everyone you listed shows those issues to everyone and not Shinji in particular. Plus Rei warms up really quickly in the movies Even Asuka is toned down pretty heavily for the movies. The fact that they don't show it to Shinji in particular doesn't mean much because Shinji is tremendously self-absorbed.
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May 3, 2016 19:21
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SHISHKABOB posted:Shinji projects onto Rei and that's why he walks into gendos plan, and projects his feelings of guilt onto everyone else and that's why he ignores kaworus pleading. I have no issue with that part, I only really take issue with the start. Once that is done it's a fine movie.
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May 3, 2016 19:22
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CharlestheHammer posted:We honestly won't know how to receive them until they are finished. A good three movies with one mixed one would be a pretty good run. To me, I don't think the Rebuilds are particularly interesting until the last 10 minutes of 2 and then the incredible 3. There's subtle elements of 2 that are kind of interesting, and since 1 is nearly identical to Ep 1-6, and we now have the high quality blu Ray transfers, it seems like a very disposable piece, sadly. The animation is very very good though, especially some of the CG Eva fights.
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May 3, 2016 19:23
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I think 3.33 has borderline-incoherent character writing, a completely unsympathetic and inhumanly-dumb take on Shinji, and a narrative stuck together with chewing gum and paperclips, but 2.22 wasn't any better about either of those things. It was just more fast-paced and actiony and fun, so it was easier to ignore the problems it had. A big part of the problem is the way Anno and his staff have been kicking the can of "should we figure out yet what we're actually leading to here?" further down the road for each Rebuild movie. Reading the translated staff interviews from the 2.22 CRC book was really enlightening about the whole process. There was a lot of stuff along the lines of 'We wanted a new character who will really change Eva, so we made Mari. We couldn't figure out what to do with her yet, but um you know, I think it came out well anyway', and then as of 3.33 they not only haven't figured that out yet but also threw out a bunch of the things they were setting up in 2.22. When your series is four film installments, rather than 26 episodes and a movie, it really helps to have a clearer idea of where you're going before you get this far.
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May 3, 2016 19:24
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The rebuilds were always going to be an abridge of the original series with things slightly tweaked or updated. They were never going to be anything but that.
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May 3, 2016 19:27
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Gammatron 64 posted:I kind of feel like the original Evangelion is a timeless classic because here we are, still talking about it 20 years later. I'm not so sure about the rebuilds. They're certainly pretty, but I can't help but feel like they'll be forgotten in the years to come. CharlestheHammer posted:We honestly won't know how to receive them until they are finished. A good three movies with one mixed one would be a pretty good run. Has there been any information of note on the final movie in like a year or so? We got that weird...film festival thing at some point didn't we? That showed Shinji just sort of walking in the ruins or something.
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May 3, 2016 19:27
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That's not true considering the announcement of the entire project has always stated it will be larger than a simple remake, which has been true since the end of the first rebuild.
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May 3, 2016 19:28
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They say that but unless the fourth goes in a drastically different direction, we are still going the path the TV series laid out. There have been some different turns, but the endgame seems to be the same.
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May 3, 2016 19:30
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CharlestheHammer posted:We honestly won't know how to receive them until they are finished. A good three movies with one mixed one would be a pretty good run. Yeah... the wait for the last installment is really agonizing as 3.33 raises so many unresolved questions. And it's gonna be years before it comes out. If it comes out. Although you could say that the finale to the show and EoE were also frustrating because there was a ton of unresolved questions, but EoE was an honest to God conclusion and didn't have "to be continued..." at the end. Plus, you can really kind of infer what was going on and where things were headed afterwards... I'm just really hungry for a conclusion and I really don't know what to think about 3.33 until that conclusion comes out. I don't love\hate the Rebuilds like some of you seem to, I just look at them and kind of shrug.
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May 3, 2016 19:30
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CharlestheHammer posted:I have no issue with that part, I only really take issue with the start. Once that is done it's a fine movie. Yeah I find the whole action sequence with the wunder to be kind of weird and different from evangelion. Feels like a more modern take, which is interesting when juxtaposed against the "eva fans are children" curse. 3 is a real dig at the viewer I think.
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May 3, 2016 19:41
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In Training posted:I wouldn't think of them as a separate project, it's a continuation of Evangelion through the decades, really. Future reflections won't consider them as different works once the Rebuild saga is complete, most likely. It's just tough now, waiting for them to be released. You are an absolute Retard if you think the sequel film remakes made 10-20 years after the fact are going to not be seperated from the original series
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May 3, 2016 19:52
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Dred Cosmonaut posted:You are an absolute Retard if you think the sequel film remakes made 10-20 years after the fact are going to not be seperated from the original series First of all, rude, and second of all, yes obviously it's important that they're made after the fact, but when referring to NGE I think it will just be considered on the whole. There's examples of other films/TV that have installments across a long period of time, it's not unheard of in the slightest.
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May 3, 2016 20:00
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In Training posted:First of all, rude, and second of all, yes obviously it's important that they're made after the fact, but when referring to NGE I think it will just be considered on the whole. There's examples of other films/TV that have installments across a long period of time, it's not unheard of in the slightest. Like even if all we ever had from Rebuild was 1.11 people would still be comparing it against NGE episodes 1-6 for various reasons. Tuxedo Catfish posted:there's nothing cold or manipulative about Shinji in 2.22
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May 3, 2016 20:10
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In Training posted:First of all, rude, and second of all, yes obviously it's important that they're made after the fact, but when referring to NGE I think it will just be considered on the whole. There's examples of other films/TV that have installments across a long period of time, it's not unheard of in the slightest. Sorry, I post like a dick. Wasn't really trying to be rude, but sequels made long after the fact are always separated from the original work. You can't just magically pick back up where you left off after years, you the author and the world you live in are different and that is going to make the product different. Its a huge fad nowadays for companies to just fund up a new season of some old show, and expect it to be just as good as some cult classic from 10 years ago, and they never are. See: The new FLCL, The new mr show on netflix, Zoolander 2, etc.
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May 3, 2016 20:18
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Raxivace posted:I don't know about that. Shinji actively tries to murder all of his coworkers after the Bardiel battle. That's a fairly cold Travis Bickel type of thing to do IMO, though granted he had just gone through some rather extreme circumstances. There's nothing cold about that, it was red hot rage. He was not acting rationally in the slightest, and understandably so as his father used to dummy plug system and forced Shinji to almost kill one of his friends (and in the case of the manga, actually kill). Shinji had been harboring animosity towards his rear end in a top hat of a father for years and that was the match that made the powder keg blow up.
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May 3, 2016 20:20
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Dred Cosmonaut posted:Sorry, I post like a dick. Wasn't really trying to be rude, but sequels made long after the fact are always separated from the original work. You can't just magically pick back up where you left off after years, you the author and the world you live in are different and that is going to make the product different. Its a huge fad nowadays for companies to just fund up a new season of some old show, and expect it to be just as good as some cult classic from 10 years ago, and they never are. See: The new FLCL, The new mr show on netflix, Zoolander 2, etc. What about the ones that are way better than the cult classics they are based on?
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May 3, 2016 20:27
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Gammatron 64 posted:There's nothing cold about that, it was red hot rage.
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May 3, 2016 20:35
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Jostiband posted:What about the ones that are way better than the cult classics they are based on? Remakes better than the original? I can think of the Thing '82, True Grit, the Fly (with Jeff Goldblum), Invasion of the Body Snatchers '78, Scarface and uh... that's about it.
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May 3, 2016 20:56
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Jostiband posted:What about the ones that are way better than the cult classics they are based on? Heck Fury Road was mentioned here earlier
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May 3, 2016 20:57
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Raxivace posted:Larger point I'm trying to make is that Shinji sometimes just doesn't give many fucks about other people, much like Gendo all of the time. Yes Shinji was mad at his father, but he also was preparing to kill people like Maya and Aoba too. I don't really care if you want to call that cold or hot or something else. Yeah it's almost like he's a 15 year old living in an insane world with insane responsibilities like "make sure the apocalypse doesn't happen", has serious mental health issues, has a seriously hosed up social network except for a couple friends at school. One of which ends up almost dying because of Shinji, and before that his little sister was almost killed. Average poo poo for a kid whose mom died when he was 4 and his dad treated him like trash, ya know. Shinji is an incredibly self-centered individual. He hates himself and projects this onto other people. At the same time he values his self worth based on the opinions of other people, and so he wants to be liked and loved by other people, but because of his insecurities and poo poo he can't ever get there. Then when he's starting to feel ok about some things, and might start being able to not hate himself and project it, his dad turns him into a tool to kill another person. Like remember, that's the context for the scene you're talking about. It's episode... 16 or so I think? Looking at it and saying "he is gonna kill his pals! what a jerk!" is ignoring the whole thing.
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May 3, 2016 21:04
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Srice posted:Heck Fury Road was mentioned here earlier Is Fury Road really a remake, though? To me, it's just the 4th Mad Max movie. It's kinda sorta a reboot but also not really because Mad Max plays really rough and loose with continuity and they're pretty standalone. 9/10 people are going to say that Fury Road is the best Mad Max movie (and the remainder will say the Road Warrior is) but comparing Fury Road with the original Mad Max is a little (a lot) unfair and saying it's a remake of that is just plain wrong. The first Mad Max was before the apocalypse and doesn't have the post-apocalyptic look people associate with the series. I mean hell, a lot of people mistakenly think the Road Warrior was the first movie. I think Fury Road is more like Rocky Balboa or Creed where they make a new installment decades later that somehow winds up being good. Which, you know, is a rare thing in and of itself. Look at the Terminator and Indiana Jones.
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May 3, 2016 21:14
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I wouldn't hate 3.33 nearly as much if the fourth movie had come out now. It feels like lovely writing because instead of 2.22, where it's a relatively simple run-through of events in the TV series with the biggest changes in the last ten minutes, the third movie is just a big goddamned mystery from start to finish with 100% of the cast being irritating or unlikeable in some form or fashion. Shinji may be consumed with guilt, but he's still insufferable in the movie's final moments. It's totally understandable for Shinji to go full desperation as he tries to "make things right," but after the big deal of "Shinji/Kaworu piano partners together 4evr" it's dumb that Kaworu's calls for hesitation fall on deaf ears. Kaworu takes his "I know more than I'm letting on" shtick to its ultimate form, dies raising even more questions than the viewer even knew existed. Former NERV employees go out of their way to rescue Unit 01/Shinji, then spend the rest of the movie sneering at him and never explaining a goddamn thing to him. Sure, post apocalypse is Shinji's fault, but it still takes an amazing lack of sense to be all shocked and outraged when Shinji peaces the gently caress out of the HQ that actively hates him. They really should have given Touji's sister more screentime. Mari is pointless still. The only characters that were more or less consistent were Asuka, Gendo, Rei and Fuyutsuki. All four of them are different, I suppose, but not so drastically that you think they're different people. 3.33 might work for some, but I really can't say I enjoy waiting years for a movie where its whole deal is dropping you into a drastically different setting/situation, and explaining none of what's going on, and then asking you to wait another 5-6 years for what you hope MIGHT explain half of it. I didn't like  , so of course I didn't like 3.33.
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May 3, 2016 21:37
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Shinjobi posted:Former NERV employees go out of their way to rescue Unit 01/Shinji, then spend the rest of the movie sneering at him and never explaining a goddamn thing to him. Sure, post apocalypse is Shinji's fault, but it still takes an amazing lack of sense to be all shocked and outraged when Shinji peaces the gently caress out of the HQ that actively hates him. They really should have given Touji's sister more screentime. I'm not sure they even expected Shinji to be there, or if they just wanted Unit-01.
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May 3, 2016 21:41
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SHISHKABOB posted:Looking at it and saying "he is gonna kill his pals! what a jerk!" is ignoring the whole thing. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 21:46
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Gammatron 64 posted:Remakes better than the original? I can think of the Thing '82, True Grit, the Fly (with Jeff Goldblum), Invasion of the Body Snatchers '78, Scarface and uh... that's about it. there are a few more... sorcerer is better than wages of fear, ford's 3 godfathers is like the third adaptation of that material and the best one, likewise the 39 wizard of oz respectively. i don't agree that the remakes of the hawks movies are better, though, but i know i'm in the minority. but most of these aren't directed or written by the same people over time (unlike eva) so they yield radically different interpretations/receptions based on context and are easier to separate from their original versions, imo the only cases i can think of are like man who knew too much 56, floating weeds, and heat. and i guess funny games but i hate that movie in both versions Radio Spiricom fucked around with this message at 22:52 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 21:50
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Speaking of Hawks, aren't some of the Rio Bravo sequels that he made himself basically considered remakes?
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May 3, 2016 21:55
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oh yeah el dorado and rio lobo are essentially remakes of rio bravo in terms of plot. also to have and have not is basically a remake of only angels have wings.
Radio Spiricom fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 22:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm not sure they even expected Shinji to be there, or if they just wanted Unit-01. And I get that vibe too. But holy crap, if that's how you're going to treat him just leave him in full isolation. Why even come down to talk when all you're gonna do is poo poo on him?
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May 3, 2016 22:09
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Shinjobi posted:And I get that vibe too. But holy crap, if that's how you're going to treat him just leave him in full isolation. Why even come down to talk when all you're gonna do is poo poo on him? A decade's worth of anger and frustration means people do not always act rationally. Plus the people who talked to him are Asuka (making GBS threads on him isn't new), Misato (clearly struggling) and Ritsuko (Ritsuko.) Plus I guess Toji's sister who is reasonably nice to him.
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May 3, 2016 22:12
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Gammatron 64 posted:Is Fury Road really a remake, though? To me, it's just the 4th Mad Max movie. It's kinda sorta a reboot but also not really because Mad Max plays really rough and loose with continuity and they're pretty standalone. Naw, bit of crossed wires here, the quote was in response to sequels made years after the original. Fury Road is definitely a sequel and regardless of how it stands in comparison to the original it's definitely a good example of a quality sequel after a long time.
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May 3, 2016 23:14
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Raxivace posted:I think there's been a disconnect somewhere because I don't really disagree with anything you've said here. My intent wasn't to ignore the context you've highlighted here or to imply that it would have been reasonable to expect Shinji not to snap under the circumstances, though I've been discussing 2.22 and I'm not quite sure why you brought up the episode in the original series. I'm talking about the movie too. So what are you getting at? Shinji is acting like a living, breathing, hot blooded human. I don't understand why that is bad. In terms of the story, I mean.
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May 3, 2016 23:19
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These demonstrably mentally unwell characters are not acting like well adjusted exposition robots this is bullshit!!!!!!!!
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May 4, 2016 00:18
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SHISHKABOB posted:I'm talking about the movie too. So what are you getting at? Shinji is acting like a living, breathing, hot blooded human. I don't understand why that is bad. In terms of the story, I mean. It's only bad in the sense that characters making tragic decisions is bad for themselves and others and is just generally a sad thing. With Shinji, this often involves him making self-centered decisions without enough care for how it affects others, which really isn't that different from how Gendo operates. Ideally, Shinji will learn to overcome this cycle in the last movie and avoid the possible future that Gendo represents. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 04:14 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 04:11
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Given the team working on Godzilla Resurgence and the cross-promotion between it and Eva, I would not be surprised if The Decisive Battle plays at some point in the film.
Leroy Dennui fucked around with this message at 04:34 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 04:32
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Raxivace posted:With Shinji, this often involves him making self-centered decisions without enough care for how it affects others, which really isn't that different from how Gendo operates. Really it's how most of the characters operate with the exception of Rei, who goes too far in the opposite direction, and maybe Kaji.
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May 4, 2016 04:33
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Really it's how most of the characters operate with the exception of Rei, who goes too far in the opposite direction, and maybe Kaji.
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May 4, 2016 04:36
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2.22: GO SHINJI! DO THIS FOR YOURSELF! "yeeeeeeaaaah!" 3.33: GODDAMNIT SHINJI! WHY'D YOU DO THAT FOR!? "aaaw, can anyone tell me what's going on?" NO WE loving HATE YOU! NOW WEAR THIS EXPLOSIVE COLLAR! "everyday I'm shinji  "
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May 4, 2016 07:16
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I just watched The Zero Theorem by Terry Gilliam and got a real laugh out of the ending.
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May 27, 2016 20:11
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SHISHKABOB posted:I just watched The Zero Theorem by Terry Gilliam and got a real laugh out of the ending.
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May 27, 2016 20:48
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