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Half of Palladium's staff is pushing or past 60. The company's had a 34 year run. I wouldn't be surprised if the main goal now is to pay off any lingering debts and get Palladium in shape for sale by 2020. Kevin and whoever also has a stake will split seven figures and then things will get interesting. EDIT: I have to say though, the Grab Bag thing is brilliant. They take a couple of flagship/request books and mix it with whatever they need to clear. Keep in mind that by contrast, I've received surprise games in the past as . . . packing material, because whoever wants it gone. Some of this stock would be worth literally less than nothing (given warehousing costs and taxes) so monetizing it is a fantastic idea. MalcolmSheppard fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 13:06
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ManMythLegend posted:I've gotta say, Palladium-chat is my favorite type of industry chat. "See this one, on my arm? This is from that time Kev threw a tantrum about lasers. No, not that time, the other time. No, the other, other time." MalcolmSheppard posted:EDIT: I have to say though, the Grab Bag thing is brilliant. They take a couple of flagship/request books and mix it with whatever they need to clear. Keep in mind that by contrast, I've received surprise games in the past as . . . packing material, because whoever wants it gone. Some of this stock would be worth literally less than nothing (given warehousing costs and taxes) so monetizing it is a fantastic idea. Atlas did the same thing a few years ago. I ended up with a few things that I vaguely wanted, and got the feeling that they had an entire warehouse filled with Recess! and Seismic. Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 16:11
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MalcolmSheppard posted:Kevin and whoever also has a stake will split seven figures and then things will get interesting. In what world is Palladium worth 7 figures? The only IP and back catalogue you'd get out of it have no wide appeal, and audiences that are already miniscule and still dwindling, and any hardware or technology would be second rate and small in number. I doubt they even own the building they're in, the company has gently caress all value.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:06
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Yeah, the only real properties they have anymore that'd be worth anything are Rifts and Robotech. And even then, Robotech isn't super-popular anymore.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:09
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Evil Mastermind posted:Yeah, the only real properties they have anymore that'd be worth anything are Rifts and Robotech. And even then, Robotech isn't super-popular anymore. They don't own Robotech, they have a contract granting them limited rights to produce certain kinds of games based on the IP, and should Palladium be sold Harmony Gold would almost certainly have a clause in the contract granting them immediate release if they so chose.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:18
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NTRabbit posted:They don't own Robotech, they have a contract granting them limited rights to produce certain kinds of games based on the IP, and should Palladium be sold Harmony Gold would almost certainly have a clause in the contract granting them immediate release if they so chose.  ), but it's still one of Palladium's only real properties. Everything else is either generic genre stuff (Heroes Unlimited, Beyond the Supernatural, Palladium Fantasy...) or known vaporware.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:24
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Banana Man posted:Woa is there kenzerco drama NTRabbit posted:In what world is Palladium worth 7 figures? The only IP and back catalogue you'd get out of it have no wide appeal, and audiences that are already miniscule and still dwindling, and any hardware would be second rate and small in number. I doubt they even own the building they're in, the company has gently caress all value.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:31
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NTRabbit posted:In what world is Palladium worth 7 figures? The only IP and back catalogue you'd get out of it have no wide appeal, and audiences that are already miniscule and still dwindling, and any hardware or technology would be second rate and small in number. Despite their antics, Palladium is still pretty successful by TRPG standards, and it holds IP that could conceivably be turned into "real" success in other industries which would make a few hundred thousand dollars a steal to grab it. quote:I doubt they even own the building they're in, the company has gently caress all value. I thought one of the secrets to their longevity (and some of their misfortunes) was that they owned their offices and warehouse?
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Nov 10, 2015 21:34
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Also, most people who were into Robotech have realized that Macross exists.
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Nov 10, 2015 22:06
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Halloween Jack posted:Hot on the heels of several other Kickstarters he delivered improperly or not at all, Ken Whitman partnered with Jolly Blackburn to produce a Knights of the Dinner Table live action series. I don't remember all the details, but the whole thing turned into a disaster with actors not being paid and DVDs not being delivered. Ken was also responsible for organizing a GenCon party for the series, featuring the actors, and ended up canceling the party and actually blocking Jolly Blackburn from related groups on Facebook. Along the way he's used his tenuous connections to Larry Elmore to shore up his reputation, prompting Elmore to issue a statement that said (paraphrased) "Ken Whitman and I are not in business; he's just paid me to make some art. I never wanted my name to be used to prop up other people's projects this way."
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Nov 10, 2015 22:09
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NTRabbit posted:In what world is Palladium worth 7 figures? The only IP and back catalogue you'd get out of it have no wide appeal, and audiences that are already miniscule and still dwindling, and any hardware or technology would be second rate and small in number. I doubt they even own the building they're in, the company has gently caress all value. In a world that largely doesn't care that the company has beefs with ex-amployees and supply chain problems for a Kickstarter and would buy Rifts with the rest of the portfolio on the side. In any event, with six full time employees operating out of a dedicated warehouse/office (like many companies you think are doing better can't afford to do) I'd be surprised if PB was grossing less than half a million bucks a year. If the company pays off its debts (the embezzlement/theft business was nearly a decade ago, so this is likely) a low seven figure payout is entirely reasonably, and probably no big deal -- it's not a lot of money. Rifts has proven its value over 25 years. It's less important that nobody made a movie than the fact that people have paid for the option twice. As for Robotech, PB appears to have a pretty good license -- they were able to sub-license it, for instance. If it transfers smoothly with the entity of PB changing hands, it's got value.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:34
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NTRabbit posted:They don't own Robotech, they have a contract granting them limited rights to produce certain kinds of games based on the IP, and should Palladium be sold Harmony Gold would almost certainly have a clause in the contract granting them immediate release if they so chose. Depends on how well it was negotiated. Things run the gamut from the super-tight contracts done for LotR games while the movies were out, to the license that keeps Star Fleet Battles around, no matter what.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:37
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There is no way Harmony Gold negotiated a contract that doesn't have the rights revert to them if Palladium so much as sneezes funny, those guys are ridiculous control freaks concerning that license.
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Nov 11, 2015 01:32
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Halloween Jack posted:Jolly Blackburn knew Ken Whitman's reputation and decided to "give him another chance." Apparently Geek Social Fallacies is a significant factor in this business. Blackburn also gets along well with Siembieda, from all indications. As for the notion of Rifts getting sold off for $$$, I feel like it's almost a non-issue. He's always been notoriously controlling and possessive of it, and Palladium has seen brush after brush with death at this point where it would have seemed logical to sell it on multiple occasions, but he's hung on in the face of great personal and professional trials. It feels like the only way he'd part with it at this point is if has literally no other options. It's his baby and the family business all wrapped up in one, and those thinking he'll sell it anytime soon probably have another think coming.
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Nov 11, 2015 01:44
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Kai Tave posted:There is no way Harmony Gold negotiated a contract that doesn't have the rights revert to them if Palladium so much as sneezes funny, those guys are ridiculous control freaks concerning that license. When Kevin got the licenses to both Robotech and TMNT, nobody had any idea what they were doing. They're likely the same type of stupidly good deals as the Star Fleet Battle guys have. That said there's no way Palladium would fetch even close to a million dollars, their original IPs are pretty crappy, their licenses are only for games and their reputation is crap. White Wolf just sold for 1.2M and it's got a lot more mainstream value behind it.
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Nov 11, 2015 02:26
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I've got a strong feeling that Siembieda has absolutely no retirement savings and intends to keep doing Palladium until the day he dies.
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Nov 11, 2015 02:37
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Well, Palladium renegotiated for Robotech within the last decade, but that IP's been in the gutter for awhile now, sadly, particularly now that people no longer need the middleman of Americanization and can get the Macross sequels directly from Japan. (And for all their issues, they're worlds beyond Harmony Gold's attempts to flog Robotech.) But all Palladium really has to sell is Rifts and they've been hard at work devaluing it for at least fifteen years, to the point where the game gets equal parts derision to nostalgia. Once it was probably the #3 RPG in terms of sales; nowadays most gamers - even those who grew up with it - don't even know it's still getting regular releases.
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Nov 11, 2015 02:44
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Well, Palladium renegotiated for Robotech within the last decade, but that IP's been in the gutter for awhile now, sadly, particularly now that people no longer need the middleman of Americanization and can get the Macross sequels directly from Japan. (And for all their issues, they're worlds beyond Harmony Gold's attempts to flog Robotech.) Macross Frontier is is a legitimately good series. It rekindled my love for the series after a long hiatus.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:00
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Leperflesh posted:I've got a strong feeling that Siembieda has absolutely no retirement savings and intends to keep doing Palladium until the day he dies. 8-Ball sez: Signs point to yes.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:03
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I, for one, can't wait for the post-Siembieda RIFTS era and the inevitable group of grognards who want to "stay true to Kevin's vision" and launch a bunch of RIFTS OSR clones to compete with the revised edition.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:12
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Bucnasti posted:When Kevin got the licenses to both Robotech and TMNT, nobody had any idea what they were doing. They're likely the same type of stupidly good deals as the Star Fleet Battle guys have. That said there's no way Palladium would fetch even close to a million dollars, their original IPs are pretty crappy, their licenses are only for games and their reputation is crap. White Wolf just sold for 1.2M and it's got a lot more mainstream value behind it. White Wolf didn't sell for $US 1.2 million. It sold for a multiple of that. The article you're thinking of just notes that SEK10 million = $US 1.2 million. The old White Wolf's goodwill value was around $US4 million and didn't significantly decrease in CCP's financial statements. That + MMO production assets mean Paradox probably spent in the mid-seven figures USD. These strained explanations for why somebody you don't like continues to survive with a company that outlived TSR, White Wolf v. 1.0 and WEG, and outlasted a disaster comparable to the one that sank Decipher seems to be getting increasingly disconnected from the facts. It's incoherent to complain that Kevin got a bunch of fans to bail him out while simultaneously saying their IP has no value -- if it wasn't valuable, he wouldn't have been bailed out. Don't worry, the dodgy quality of Palladium's offerings are a given and everything. That's baked into their process. Just because Kevin looks on track to be a successful retired small business guy doesn't take away the fact that the operation is pretty much guaranteed to filter out competence. But even if they never get a Carella or Coffin again, they're good at selling their backlist.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:36
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Palladium is shortly going to be killed by failing to fulfil a kickstarter, or if they weasel their way out of that by claiming successful delivery of 1/3 of the product with wave 1, failing to fulfill the additional pledge manager sales - which are legally retail preorders - and already blowing through all the money, which they will no longer be able to refund. His company isn't worth anywhere near $1 million dollars, all of the money it is worth will be taken by creditors after the bankruptcy auction, Siembieda's rank incompetence will have finally caught up with him, and the last 100 Rifts die hards won't be able to buy enough duplicate reprints to change the result. All he had to do was honour the contract, stand back, let Ninja Division do the work they're experienced at and being paid to do, and Robotech would have been if not a minor hit, then a solid base to iterate on with expansions for the next two generations. Instead he personally took over, and personally ruined the project. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 08:21
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RIFTS' main problem, from a fluff standpoint, is that it is trying to do too much at once, right? I wonder if you can even trim all that fat and still have something recognizable as RIFTS.
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Nov 11, 2015 08:23
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paradoxGentleman posted:RIFTS' main problem, from a fluff standpoint, is that it is trying to do too much at once, right? I wonder if you can even trim all that fat and still have something recognizable as RIFTS. If you cut the over the top ridiculous content then the only thing you have left is a really, really, really lovely system. The only thing that RIFTS has going for it is that it's kind of endearing that it tries to play the fact that you can be a sentient bear wizard fighting a vampire dragon mech in space totally straight.
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Nov 11, 2015 09:45
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I think you can go over the top with rifts and still have a semi coherent playable setting especially with a better made system. Hell TBZ is basically anime rifts already and could theoretically fit those concepts as well.
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Nov 11, 2015 11:18
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Elfgames posted:I think you can go over the top with rifts and still have a semi coherent playable setting especially with a better made system. Hell TBZ is basically anime rifts already and could theoretically fit those concepts as well. I don't disagree with you at all. That's one of the reasons I'm super stoked about Savage RIFTS. I was more disagreeing with the notion that the problem with RIFTS is the fluff and not the system.
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Nov 11, 2015 12:20
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Well, the argument I was trying to make is that both the fluff and the system have problems, but since I am not equipped to discuss the system I was considering how to approach the fluff.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:22
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paradoxGentleman posted:Well, the argument I was trying to make is that both the fluff and the system have problems, but since I am not equipped to discuss the system I was considering how to approach the fluff. Well, if you start peeling things out of the fluff you really don't have any reason to play RIFTS anymore as there are tons of other, better games, that focus on whatever you would leave behind only they do it more coherently. I guess what I'm getting at is that the insanity of the RIFTS setting is a feature, not a bug.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:32
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Fair enough.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:52
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MalcolmSheppard posted:These strained explanations for why somebody you don't like continues to survive with a company that outlived TSR, White Wolf v. 1.0 and WEG, and outlasted a disaster comparable to the one that sank Decipher seems to be getting increasingly disconnected from the facts. It's incoherent to complain that Kevin got a bunch of fans to bail him out while simultaneously saying their IP has no value -- if it wasn't valuable, he wouldn't have been bailed out. I wouldn't say Rifts is worthless by any stretch, but it doesn't have the "heat" it once did back when, say, it was originally optioned. And the theoretical value of something like that is entirely dependent on having a buyer at that price. Not that Siembieda's selling in any case. A lot of Palladium's ability to survive comes Siembieda's force of will, really, keeping the company operating under conditions that would get most other people to throw in the towel. It survives, yes, but with very real costs. It's still a company that keeps the lights off as to keep its power bills down, pays new writers an utter pittance, and tries to sell off printer drafts of books as collector's items. And regardless of what one's opinion of any of that is, Palladium has had signs of a struggle. There's more I could bring up, but believe it or not, I don't hate the guy and I don't want to go pure helldump. It's just that the basic facts about Palladium tend not to be terribly flattering. And hey, Decipher isn't dead. They have a new release coming out this year, or so they say! 
Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 14:14
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ManMythLegend posted:If you cut the over the top ridiculous content then the only thing you have left is a really, really, really lovely system. This relates to something I was going to effortpost in the F&F thread a while back, but: a setting that has both Rogue Scholars and Mind Melters, and doesn't discourage you from putting both in the same party, is probably best handled with a ruleset like Marvel Heroic Roleplaying or Atomic Robo. But a lot of gamers don't want to play any kind of narrative system, and most don't want to play one all the time. (You could probably rely on almost all of Palladium's fanbase to reject it out of hand.) VVV Edit: Reserving a spot as a badass Psi-Stalker, tia Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 16:03
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Halloween Jack posted:This relates to something I was going to effortpost in the F&F thread a while back, but: a setting that has both Rogue Scholars and Mind Melters, and doesn't discourage you from putting both in the same party, is probably best handled with a ruleset like Marvel Heroic Roleplaying or Atomic Robo. But a lot of gamers don't want to play any kind of narrative system, and most don't want to play one all the time. (You could probably rely on almost all of Palladium's fanbase to reject it out of hand.) I've been trying to find a better system for Rifts for ages, and it never occurred to me to try Cortex Plus! That's a great idea, ta. (Which is odd, given that I use Cortex Plus for nearly everything. Blind spot, I suppose.)
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Nov 11, 2015 16:55
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They pretty much already made a RIFTS movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJgAeGUD2FU
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Nov 11, 2015 17:04
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Alien Rope Burn posted:He also gets along famously with Siembieda, from what I understand. ManMythLegend posted:I, for one, can't wait for the post-Siembieda RIFTS era and the inevitable group of grognards who want to "stay true to Kevin's vision" and launch a bunch of RIFTS OSR clones to compete with the revised edition. Edit: Also wow Everblight posted:They pretty much already made a RIFTS movie:
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Nov 11, 2015 17:45
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NTRabbit posted:I just wanted a good Robotech minis game I'm lucky enough to already have most of what I wanted out of it. A nice big pile of unseen Battletech mechs. Unfortunately, a bit heavy on the assembly, but I can deal with that. gently caress Robotech, Harmony Gold, and Palladium.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:48
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Everblight posted:They pretty much already made a RIFTS movie: That movie is awesome.
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Nov 11, 2015 20:43
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potatocubed posted:I've been trying to find a better system for Rifts for ages, and it never occurred to me to try Cortex Plus! That's a great idea, ta. I still think TBZ is a better fit if you have the patience to make archetypes.
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Nov 11, 2015 20:47
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Everblight posted:They pretty much already made a RIFTS movie: I clicked expecting Eliminators and wasn't disappointed. If you can't find a copy of that though, there's always the RIFTS cartoon.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:21
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Halloween Jack posted:On a system level, Rifts' main feature is that it's detailed, and hardly abstracts anything--one punch is one attack roll--and thus satisfies a certain early-80s definition of "realism." (Of course, if I remember right, it's also a system where going to a boxing gym makes you shoot faster, and a concussion can make you gay.) I think atomic robo would be a perfect fit for something as campy and pulpy as rifts. If only I could wrap my head around creating stunts.
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Nov 13, 2015 05:52
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Well there goes the neighborhood.
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